MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[A2ZOMG]

Kirby is a kinda gay matchup, but not bad at all, and I think in Mario's favor, even if just slightly. The good news. Kirby is just AWFUL at approaching. Out of Shield options and Fireball camping can give Kirby a really hard time. What Kirby does have is a very good spacing/defensive game. He can get a few combos in from throws too.

Kirby is also surprisingly easy to ledgeguard. While his midair jumps can get him back from any hit, he has a lot of trouble going for the ledge. It isn't particularly hard to simply hit Kirby while he's trying to get back and then finish him off later with an easy Cape or FLUDD ledgeguard if he's forced to Up-B.

Kirby's main advantage is better kill moves. His kill moves are plenty fast, strong, and have better range than your stuff. Especially his F-smash. Also his aerials usually have more range than yours, and I think he has deceptively high grab range. Also with midair jumps, keep in mind that he will likely be getting his fair share in his attempts to ledgeguard you.

Basically, play patiently against Kirby and camp him whenever you have space. Try to keep him offstage for as long as possible and the KO will eventually come. If he starts trying to play spacing games, powershield his aerials and grab him as he comes down, or use a U-smash or Up-B out of shield.

 

[Kanzaki]

I 3 stocked a Kirby in ~36 seconds before ^^

Tourny match as well, and wasn't even first round =]



Anywho, back onto this week's discussion. Lucario's dair > Mario. Enough said =[

 

[Matador]

I 3 stocked a Kirby in ~36 seconds before ^^

Tourny match as well, and wasn't even first round =]



Anywho, back onto this week's discussion. Lucario's dair > Mario. Enough said =[

Lmao, that's enough to /wrists
Seriously, after paying 20 for teams and doubles and being ***** like that, I'd quit.

Edit @ A2ZOMG: Agreed, though we prolly should've waited for Boss XD
Bairs work well for spacing for me. Uairs chain surprisingly well here too.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dun know how to play Lucarios with Mario honestly.

I don't think most combos are very safe against Lucario, because most of Mario's juggling combos involve Mario below Lucario, where Lucario can D-air.

Lucario however is fairly weak behind him. If you end up behind him while he shields, he can't really do much to you since all of his options behind him are just too slow. His B-air and F-tilt in particular, and his grab range is lousy. He MIGHT be able to N-air you, but that's it.

 

[boss8]

so we are moving on to........Olimar!!!

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I'll cover Olimar inside out and backwards in a few days

 

[Matador]

Never played a good one.

That's all Folks!

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Don't worry Olimar is one of my most played matches....next to Luigi

 

[A2ZOMG]

Monk says space well and you'll win.

I agree with him.

In my experience, Mario can actually force Olimar to approach him. It's not all that easy for Olimar to neutralize Mario's fireball spam by simply tossing pikmin around. You can fullhop Fireballs so they go above his Pikmin toss and hit Olimar in the head. Purple Pikmin can be caped back and will hurt Olimar, and I think other caped Pikmin will actually latch onto Olimar IIRC. If Olimar latches any Pikmin on you, you can simply Tornado them away.

If you need to approach Olimar, well spaced B-airs can be pretty hard to punish because they have low landing lag. N-airs outprioritize his U-smash, so you can fairly safely do that. Ledgeguarding Olimar isn't too hard since you can keep him away from the stage with well-timed Capes and then ledgehog him. And Olimar really can't ledgeguard you at all because his recovery is just so awful and creates a huge risk of SDing for him.

The main advantage Olimar has on you is he's a lot better at KOing. His U-throw and B-throw can be pretty deadly after you have high damage, and for some reason I'm not completely sure about his throws vary in knockback. (probably the color of the pikmin he uses?). his F-smash can D-smash are powerful too. His U-smash he will rarely land because it's easy to anticipate and outprioritize. His aerials are all pretty good kill moves too and have good range. However he will rarely use them because usually grabbing is a better option for him.

 

[hippiedude92]

Olimar's a goner.... once hes offstage... Mario = cape, fludd, spike, edgehug, fireballs, what more can you ask from the red plumber?

 

[cHooKay]

Don't worry Olimar is one of my most played matches....next to Luigi

I take it you played a good olimar and lost, got pissed off, analyzed the crap out of olimar, and is now currently owning olimars in matches.

That sums up what happened to me, except i still lose against olimar, but not as much.

Like previously stated, pressure and spacing is the key to winning against olimar. If you try to get in olimars face, your just asking to get grabbed by his insane range. Memorize the distance of his grab, and approach with caution with a bair. Mario's bair can knock the s***
out of those little boogery pikmin, so as long as you know how to utilze the bair you should be good. When your at long distance, utilize SH/FH fireballs, be ready to cape pikmin; randomly cape if you have to.

I'll state more later, but i gotta go to work...

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Proper spacing will usually be enough but there are so many factors in Olimar's favor

- Olimar has more range/disjointed hit boxes on **** near every attack
- His grabs have more range and can kill
- Purples and Reds almost destroy your camping game
- Olimar has a near perfect edge guard on Mario...Fsmash(I have literally started on the edge at 20% and didn't get back till I was at 100%). however Mario's Up-B can hit through the corner of certain levels(BattleField, Smashville and probably a couple others)
- Olimar is a *****
---
There is on thing I learned from talking to Olimar mains...They don't like battlefield
---
Olimar isn't totally useless off the stage...
Cape- Usually works most effective thing
Fludd- Can kinda screw up his recovery but if he still has his jump you're only helping him
Spike- Listen I have meteor canceling down to a science...when I play as Olimar and someone spikes me I up-b fast enough to grab the edge every time
Edgehogging- once I get Olimar off stage I usually go for this immediately
Fireballs- They work but only if Olimar is recovering low
---
also did you know if Olimar throws away all his pikmin he gets a better jump? that can save him some times
---
Also here's a fun story about Olimar's recovery that I heard...the guy was off the stage and lost all his pikmin and got back...and still fought using only his tilts and Nair...and took a stock off the guy's Snake
---
the point I'm trying to make is don't count Olimar out...This match is by far one of my least favorite match ups considering I have to space soooooooooo precisely but it's still far from Mario's hardest I rate this at 60:40 Olimar's Favor
---

I take it you played a good olimar and lost, got pissed off, analyzed the crap out of olimar, and is now currently owning olimars in matches.

That sums up what happened to me, except i still lose against olimar, but not as much.

Like previously stated, pressure and spacing is the key to winning against olimar. If you try to get in olimars face, your just asking to get grabbed by his insane range. Memorize the distance of his grab, and approach with caution with a bair. Mario's bair can knock the s***
out of those little boogery pikmin, so as long as you know how to utilze the bair you should be good. When your at long distance, utilize SH/FH fireballs, be ready to cape pikmin; randomly cape if you have to.

I'll state more later, but i gotta go to work...

I don't lose to Olimar...it just doesn't happen...the only time I have lost to Olimar legit was when the game was first released and I played against a guy that had the *** Edition

 

[hippiedude92]

Agreed with monk all the way. Mario's upb priority is a rapecake as well as Nair. If your going want to win, you don't want to stay in the ground cause Olimar's grab range is *******!!! It leads to combos and possibly deaths depending on the pikimin. Also you still have to be careful and look out on the those purple pikimin they can still hit you even your holding on the edge. Who knows? Might be a a game breaker there.

Also did you know that their downb whistle armor has super armors so, you'll have to watch out on that.

 

[A2ZOMG]

There is one thing I learned from talking to Olimar mains...They don't like battlefield

I learned this by actually playing the matchup. My friend who uses Olimar ALWAYS picks FD.

But not just that. Platforms screw Olimar BADLY. They neutralize a lot of his grab game by forcing him to stay in the air longer. Olimar also is fairly weak from below, like most characters. Juggling him with U-airs is something he doesn't want to happen.

I personally do not think Olimar's Purple and Red pikmin are a great threat. The Purples, just bloody watch what Olimar is throwing at you and Cape that **** back. The Reds latch onto you but you can swat them away easily with aerials like you can against any other Pikmin.

Also, I never really knew that Olimar's F-smash could guard the ledge from Mario. =/

 

[Kanzaki]

Red Pikmin > Fireball/Side Smash.

 

[Blackbelt]

I hate Olimar so ******** much.


I always lose to him.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Olimar's a tough match for me. A good Olimar will focus the fight mainly on the ground. Since he outprioritizes Mario in that area with his long grab range, and annoying constant D/F/Usmashes back to back with no hesitation. But this doesnt mean his aerials are garbage by any means. He can juggle the damage on you with no problem if you're left wide open.

Like stated previously Bair's are you're best freind but try not to Bair him in his face while he's grounded (Obviously) Free grab when he shields. And if the Olimar know his Pikmin he'll know exactly what throw to use depending on the Pikmin he grabbed you with. They all have KO potential in a different direction pretty much.

If you are ever playing against a Olimar that uses the whistle move throughout the fight, beware, he knows and is highly aware of Olimar an most probably you as his opponet let alone how to go about fighting you & ur fireballs. He's setting up the right colored Pikmin he wants to have at that certain time.


Whenever you're returning to the stage, don't return being offensive, fireball while returning and get back on defensively, evading, UpB to edge sweetspot, ect ect. Olimar has by far the easiest meteor smash to connect with. He can also, suicide his Pikmin on you one by one via Fsmash whenever you're recovering low, which is annoying.

Like A2Z & Monk stated. If it's on FD, you are in for a hard battle. Play very campy, Fireball alot and often, and most importantly, let him approach you. So you able to get a idea of what move he's about to come out with.

Also, very important. Because of grounded, grab happy Olimars, try to stay behind him with an attack whenever you're approaching from the air. And instead of rolling, Spot dodge whenever you make a mistake (If you yourself feel you are about to get hit) Good sign to stand evade.. Don't Fsmash though if you sucsessfully stand evade, it's too slow a move. You're better off using Dsmash since it's quicker, attacks in front of you first. Usually if an olimar ever gets spot dodged, he simply smashes over an over constantly.

His UpB to me is similar to Ivysaurs. Most of the time it's better to simply edgegaurd him, grab the edge on his a$s so he has to sweetspot it and hit you. Or he'l upB and shoot them off blindly in a diagnale / type of fashion & miss. Thankfully, if his only means left to getting back on the stage is via his upb. You can gimp him. Mario's cape stall works wonders.

Even on battlefield, I don't see the match being in Mario favor. Yeah, Olimar's garbage at recovering. But overall, move for move, it's in Olimar's hands. On FD i'd say 7/3 Olimar. On Battlefield, the match is in you're favor due to the platforms. But a good Olimar could care less about any of that. He knows what to do an what not to do.

Above all, not an easy fight. It's getting easier for me, the more I read up and look into Olimar. But overall, he's a very advanced character. Thankfully he's not a very popular character.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The thing I find about Olimar is that he and his strategies are all very straightforward. If he's away from you, he will try to Pikmin toss. If he's close, he wants to grab or land a Smash. His air game is decent, but renders him unable to use his grab, which he doesn't like.

I dunno, but just remember, there are three attacks you want to use in this matchup. Fireballs, N-air, and B-air. These are important for beating Olimar.

 

[Takeshi245]

After what I've experienced and have read, I think Olimar wins 7-3 simply because he has effective attacks and a good grab range that works well against Mario.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

it's not 70:30 it's 60:40-65:35... Olimar's recovery is bad...I know I'm contradicting myself by saying it's horrible when my last post said it's not that bad...the point I'm trying to make is he has more options then people think....it's still garbage...Recovery+Platforms(Which last time I checked...the majority of levels have)= Mario happy fun time


60:40

 

[Ray/Boshi]

I agree with that. Most of the stages have a platform in it. So it will hinder him to an extent. I'd still say70/30 on FD though, 60/40 everywhere else.

 

[mario brawler]

lmao I thought we were doin' luigi
well olimar is ridicously easy to gimp,cape his second jump and that's it im not sure what else needs to be repeated though XD A2ZOMG pretty much said it all

 

[Matt07]

I find Olimar really hard to deal with, he juggles me in the air, his grabs and his smashes give me so much trouble. Especially his up smash. However, he's slightly easy to cape. I haven't really fought too many Olimar's to give a better opinion.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

I don't fight too many Olimar's either Matt, but enough to see how annoying & deadly they potentially can be unfortunatly . It's a good thing his recovery's easily thwarted. Now getting him damaged & off the stage is another story.

I never can land a smash on him. He has too much range over me, let alone the fact that Mario is overall basic far as reading movewise, It's obvious to stand evade for Olimar when he messes up on something, misses, or feels he's in danger, so that makes it that much harder for poor Mario.

Nair, Bair, Uair, are keys to wiining the fight. But only depending on Olimar's current position though. They are all quick moves thankfully. Once you connect with one, Olimars slightly messed up long enough while he's airborne, you can just juggle along. Once hes grounded though, play campy and cautious with fireballs. Get him to come toward you and initiate the first attack.

His Pikmin I find annoying. I read up on how the whistle heirachy goes, so now I can predict what they are aiming for throughout the round better somewhat. But overall, good olimar's only throw the white pikmin, unless they see a opening for connected damage and distraction. As well as looking at they're line of colors for pikmin constantly..

Olimar's are real campy, if they lose 1 or 2 pikmin, they will back up, camp, sprout back to full. Because in a way, they'd perfer you to make the first move so they can punish accordingly. Also benefits them, full pikmin again. Maybe even the colors they want. They also perfer to stay in the middle of the stage.

Hard to Bair/Nair Olimar, they are always on the ground. Always facing you, always patient, power shielding & grab afterwards. Try to get behing the direction they are facing, they'l switch up on you. Might even do a spot dodge, Dsmash, Dsmash, Fsmash if the others didnt connect.

If they connect with a hit, shoot you off, follow you, attempt to juggle depending on color the Pikmin (As always, color of the Pikmin)

If upB Olimar's last means to recovering, he's done for thankfully. Gimped. Overall, far as me beating Olimar. I beat him gimping his recovery. He usually dominates everything else.

 

[mario brawler]

lol its funny how some of you rated olimar diffrently depending on a stage XD
Im staying with 6-4 or 65-35 in olimars adv.
if you can stay near a ledge and abuse how bad his recovery is it should help well
and with most charcters near a ledge bthrow>cape 2nd jump>edge hog/guard=free K.O. it works every now and then and is worth a try at least once every match

 

[hippiedude92]

I just fought a Olimar. A key thing is killing is his Pikimin. Of course good players will try not to let you kill theirs. But once you kill them and they have like 1-2 left, you keep pressuring them, keeping them in the air so they won't pick up more pikimin. Air game = your best friend

 

[-Sensei-]

Hmm...I pretty much agree with what's been said already. I'll just add that if you're facing a spam happy Olimar, that dair is your best friend. It can be used as a safe approach because the pikmin won't be able to latch on to you. Note that though this does knock the pikmin off of you, it does NOT kill them.

 

[Zori]

There is on thing I learned from talking to Olimar mains...They don't like battlefield
---

what? 0-o we love battlefield. Olimars best natural stage.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

what? 0-o we love battlefield. Olimars best natural stage.

All I know is Fearless from FL hates battlefield...he gave me like a huge list why he hates it too...all I know is I have yet to lose to Olimar on battlefield

 

[A2ZOMG]

what? 0-o we love battlefield. Olimars best natural stage.

I don't see why Olimar likes battlefield. He HATES being in the air or above people. This neutralizes his grab and camping game by a lot. Olimar is pretty weak from below and combined with bad survivability physics he hates being juggled.

 

[iMichael]

Olimar on battlefield makes me lol

 

[Ray/Boshi]

I just fought a Olimar. A key thing is killing is his Pikimin. Of course good players will try not to let you kill theirs. But once you kill them and they have like 1-2 left, you keep pressuring them, keeping them in the air so they won't pick up more pikimin. Air game = your best friend

True indeed. Don't give Olimar any breathing room whatsoever once you're on him.

 

[Excellence]

I learned this by actually playing the matchup. My friend who uses Olimar ALWAYS picks FD.

But not just that. Platforms screw Olimar BADLY. They neutralize a lot of his grab game by forcing him to stay in the air longer. Olimar also is fairly weak from below, like most characters. Juggling him with U-airs is something he doesn't want to happen.

Who's your friend? Platforms do nothing against Olimar. If you're friend's getting juggle to the point where it can become a gameplan against him, he sucks. Platforms enable Olimar to keep away from Fire Ball spam, the let us abuse Up Air, Up Tilt, Up B, and KO with ease. On a defensive note they prevent a lot of Mario's aerial attacks which are all he has on Olimar.

How are you going to approach an Olimar who sits under a platform spacing with Fsmashes, hurling pikmin from a distance, and grabbing naive ground approaches?

I personally do not think Olimar's Purple and Red pikmin are a great threat. The Purples, just bloody watch what Olimar is throwing at you and Cape that **** back. The Reds latch onto you but you can swat them away easily with aerials like you can against any other Pikmin.

So you know, Purple Pikmin will not fly far or fast enough to hit an Olimar who throws one, unlesss they're in your face. No Olimar should ever get that close, so it's safe to assume it won't happen. I doubt Olimar is going to be throwing reds like they would any other Pikmin. I tend to throw them when you land so you take time out to kill them, which is when I combo you.

it's not 70:30 it's 60:40-65:35... Olimar's recovery is bad...I know I'm contradicting myself by saying it's horrible when my last post said it's not that bad...the point I'm trying to make is he has more options then people think....it's still garbage...Recovery+Platforms(Which last time I checked...the majority of levels have)= Mario happy fun time

60:40

Please enlighten me as to how you plan on getting Olimar off the ground long enough to send him off the ledge. Olimar's recovery is bad, reguardless of the numerous options we have to cover up it's weakness, but you're never going to exploit that weakness if you can't send us off the ledge.

lmao I thought we were doin' luigi
well olimar is ridicously easy to gimp,cape his second jump and that's it im not sure what else needs to be repeated though XD A2ZOMG pretty much said it all

Cape our second jump? I'd like to see someone come off stage, get close enough to try that and make it back alive. Just so you all know, if you cape Olimar's second jump and he's facing the other direction all he needs to do is Whistle and turn around. Mario only has one jump while we have the longest tether recovery in Brawl, we'll grab the ledge while you fall to your death.

I just fought a Olimar. A key thing is killing is his Pikimin. Of course good players will try not to let you kill theirs. But once you kill them and they have like 1-2 left, you keep pressuring them, keeping them in the air so they won't pick up more pikimin. Air game = your best friend

This statement should even be here. Olimar plucks 6 Pikmin in 1.4 seconds flat meaning you're not going to kill them all. A good Olimar only tosses 2 Pikmin at a time via short hop before recalculating the situation and possibly plucking new Pikmin. Someone like me plucks Pikmin between combos so to tell you the truth running me out of Pikmin isn't going to happen unless they de-sync while I'm off the ledge and they die.

Good luck with this strategy.

I don't see why Olimar likes battlefield. He HATES being in the air or above people. This neutralizes his grab and camping game by a lot. Olimar is pretty weak from below and combined with bad survivability physics he hates being juggled.

Have you ever had Olimar drop on you using Nair? He can go directly into Up Smash for the KO at any percent less than 120. Check the reasons above for why Olimar likes Battlefield.

 

[Matador]

Who's your friend? Platforms do nothing against Olimar. If you're friend's getting juggle to the point where it can become a gameplan against him, he sucks. Platforms enable Olimar to keep away from Fire Ball spam, the let us abuse Up Air, Up Tilt, Up B, and KO with ease. On a defensive note they prevent a lot of Mario's aerial attacks which are all he has on Olimar.

How are you going to approach an Olimar who sits under a platform spacing with Fsmashes, hurling pikmin from a distance, and grabbing naive ground approaches?

I kinda figured this would be a decent stage for Olimar, just figured it wasn't my place to argue since I don't have much experience here.

Please enlighten me as to how you plan on getting Olimar off the ground long enough to send him off the ledge. Olimar's recovery is bad, reguardless of the numerous options we have to cover up it's weakness, but you're never going to exploit that weakness if you can't send us off the ledge.

You act as if we'd never hit you with an aerial like a Bair or Nair. Both would knock you off, and if our Fludd is charged, you may not return.

Cape our second jump? I'd like to see someone come off stage, get close enough to try that and make it back alive. Just so you all know, if you cape Olimar's second jump and he's facing the other direction all he needs to do is Whistle and turn around. Mario only has one jump while we have the longest tether recovery in Brawl, we'll grab the ledge while you fall to your death.

I usually cape after Fludd, but cape without it is still very possible, albeit dangerous.

Your knowledge of Mario's gimping is limited as well, at that point, we'd have 2 jumps, not one. If you're too far to reach without DJ, we could capeglide. If you're right in front of us, one jump would suffice. Even then, after a cape, all we need to do is grab the ledge. While you're busy turning around or whatever you need to do to recovery, we're already edgehogging. It's not hard, especially not for Mario.

This statement should even be here. Olimar plucks 6 Pikmin in 1.4 seconds flat meaning you're not going to kill them all. A good Olimar only tosses 2 Pikmin at a time via short hop before recalculating the situation and possibly plucking new Pikmin. Someone like me plucks Pikmin between combos so to tell you the truth running me out of Pikmin isn't going to happen unless they de-sync while I'm off the ledge and they die.

Good luck with this strategy.

I agree, this isn't a good strategy, but I don't think that's what he was suggesting. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) in the event Olimar is down to 1 or 2 Pikmin, which is quite possible even for a good Olimar, don't let up your pressure. Regardless of how fast Olimar plucks pikmin, this can still occur, he was merely suggesting how to capitalize on this particular situation.

Also, thanks for coming to argue your side. Results are more accurate from both points of view.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

lets see how brief I can make this...

How are you going to approach an Olimar who sits under a platform spacing with Fsmashes, hurling pikmin from a distance, and grabbing naive ground approaches?
Powersheild...yes...something so simple as pressing R with good timing can beat the **** out of Olimar


So you know, Purple Pikmin will not fly far or fast enough to hit an Olimar who throws one, unlesss they're in your face. No Olimar should ever get that close, so it's safe to assume it won't happen. I doubt Olimar is going to be throwing reds like they would any other Pikmin. I tend to throw them when you land so you take time out to kill them, which is when I combo you.

I agree with this...I have been telling people since Day 1 caping Olimar's pikmin will either A) not work. or B) Put you in a bad position

Please enlighten me as to how you plan on getting Olimar off the ground long enough to send him off the ledge. Olimar's recovery is bad, reguardless of the numerous options we have to cover up it's weakness, but you're never going to exploit that weakness if you can't send us off the ledge.
Once again Powershield. Olimar has alot of defensive options but if I powershield one smash attack I can usually get a free 50% and in some cases a kill

I'm not even gunna touch the thing about caping your second jump thing...considering Mario is basically Capt. Gimp Master of the S.S. Asshole

 

[mario brawler]

well,as matador already said caping is'nt our only option bairs works well to,and so does fludd>cape
and no mario has his DJ and his up-b wich can cover a lot of distance
(Ive made it back from almost the bottom of FD with only my up-b)
and not to sound ignorant but whats so dangerouse about caping your second jump?your fair?all it would do is send me back to the stage ?_?

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Excellence raised some pretty good points on his end. My main struggle, and most importantly he even said it himself. knocking Olimar off the stage to even make the attempt of gimping his poor recovery. The match definitly isnt in Mario favor, as we all know. Olimar has range, something Mario lacks, therefore all he has to do is focus on Mario's aerials.

Battlefield, Works in Mario favor slightly more then Olimar in my opinion. Although, this doesnt make Olimar outright useless on Battlefield.

 

[Excellence]

I kinda figured this would be a decent stage for Olimar, just figured it wasn't my place to argue since I don't have much experience here.

You act as if we'd never hit you with an aerial like a Bair or Nair. Both would knock you off, and if our Fludd is charged, you may not return.

Even if we get hit, Mario doesn't have the power to send Olimar far enough off the edge to make his recovery that bad. When he does have that sort of power it's from Fsmash or Dsmash and those don't have much range, even if Dsmash is surprisingly fast.

I usually cape after Fludd, but cape without it is still very possible, albeit dangerous.

Your knowledge of Mario's gimping is limited as well, at that point, we'd have 2 jumps, not one. If you're too far to reach without DJ, we could capeglide. If you're right in front of us, one jump would suffice. Even then, after a cape, all we need to do is grab the ledge. While you're busy turning around or whatever you need to do to recovery, we're already edgehogging. It's not hard, especially not for Mario.

I can't really argue too much on this, because Mario is not a character I play often. But, what I can say (based off what I've heard on this thread) is that Mario's main gimps are Fair, which can be canceled out by an immediate jump; Fludd, which only works when someone is recovering from a horizontal angle; and Cape, which works from multiple angles but can be nulified using Whistle.

I agree, this isn't a good strategy, but I don't think that's what he was suggesting. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) in the event Olimar is down to 1 or 2 Pikmin, which is quite possible even for a good Olimar, don't let up your pressure. Regardless of how fast Olimar plucks pikmin, this can still occur, he was merely suggesting how to capitalize on this particular situation.

Also, thanks for coming to argue your side. Results are more accurate from both points of view.

You said it is quite possible, and you're right, but it's not likely.

No prob.

lets see how brief I can make this...

I'm not even gunna touch the thing about caping your second jump thing...considering Mario is basically Capt. Gimp Master of the S.S. Asshole

Cape and Fludd are the only things I'm hearing that can really gimp Olimar's recovery (other than the obvious ledgehog). Cape can be Whistled and during that animation Olimar can turn around to face the correct direction. Fludd will not work if Olimar is sent upward because we dual-stick DI downward towards the stage using Dair which makes us fall ridiculously fast. An attempts to knock us away will be thwafted using Whistle or ledgehopped using UpB's light jump.

well,as matador already said caping is'nt our only option bairs works well to,and so does fludd>cape
and no mario has his DJ and his up-b wich can cover a lot of distance
(Ive made it back from almost the bottom of FD with only my up-b)
and not to sound ignorant but whats so dangerouse about caping your second jump?your fair?all it would do is send me back to the stage ?_?

Bair can be whistled. As I said before, Fludd and Cape can be avoided if you DI upward so that you don't put yourself into Fludd into Cape conditions. If someone is recovering from a far horizontal angle, I don't think Olimar is surviving unless you fail to grab the ledge.

Caping the second jump doesn't work if it's Whistled and Mario would have to scrambled for the ledge more quickly than Olimar.

 

[Matador]

Even if we get hit, Mario doesn't have the power to send Olimar far enough off the edge to make his recovery that bad. When he does have that sort of power it's from Fsmash or Dsmash and those don't have much range, even if Dsmash is surprisingly fast.

These posts you're making lead me to believe you don't know very much at all about Mario. I seriously can't believe you think Mario doesn't have enough knockback to get Olimar offstage long enough to edgeguard. This is a terrible thing to assume and cripples your case.

I can't really argue too much on this, because Mario is not a character I play often. But, what I can say (based off what I've heard on this thread) is that Mario's main gimps are Fair, which can be canceled out by an immediate jump; Fludd, which only works when someone is recovering from a horizontal angle; and Cape, which works from multiple angles but can be nulified using Whistle.

Fair's not one of his main gimps, it's just one of his possible tools. Even then, it CAN be canceled out. It doesn't mean you will in time to recover. And in the event that you do, we're already holding the ledge.

Fludd works from wherever I spray. Period. If I jump high and fludd you, it works high. If I drop low and Fludd, it works low. There's no "it only works in this situation" because it works in every situation. The only thing that limits effectiveness is the character; that's it. Olimar isn't a character that limits this.

Cape is for reversing momentum, not turning around your character because you could easily just turn right back around with your upB. If you're suddenly moving in the other direction, however, this gives mario more time to grab the edge or possibly force you to upB the wrong way because you're aiming in the directions of your momentum. We also have ledgestalling with the cape, so spiking us with your upB is a little more difficult as well.

You said it is quite possible, and you're right, but it's not likely.

No prob.

Quite possible =/= not likely. Quite possible = likely
Hair-splitting will get you nowhere.

Cape and Fludd are the only things I'm hearing that can really gimp Olimar's recovery (other than the obvious ledgehog). Cape can be Whistled and during that animation Olimar can turn around to face the correct direction. Fludd will not work if Olimar is sent upward because we dual-stick DI downward towards the stage using Dair which makes us fall ridiculously fast. An attempts to knock us away will be thwafted using Whistle or ledgehopped using UpB's light jump.

Again, limited Mario knowledge.

Bair can be whistled. As I said before, Fludd and Cape can be avoided if you DI upward so that you don't put yourself into Fludd into Cape conditions. If someone is recovering from a far horizontal angle, I don't think Olimar is surviving unless you fail to grab the ledge.

Olimar has good DI, and can often put himself out of harms way, I'll admit. His aerial options aren't so good from below, however and can't always protect him from being pushed right back off.

Caping the second jump doesn't work if it's Whistled and Mario would have to scrambled for the ledge more quickly than Olimar.

Even then, Mario has a fast upB. Not faster than a tether, but it doesn't need to be when you've been caped. I'm honestly not sure what effect caping has on Olimar while whistled, however.

 

[Excellence]

These posts you're making lead me to believe you don't know very much at all about Mario. I seriously can't believe you think Mario doesn't have enough knockback to get Olimar offstage long enough to edgeguard. This is a terrible thing to assume and cripples your case.

Mario CANNOT send Olimar off screen without a smash attack. Unless he plans on spamming fire balls till I'm 1XX% or above, Olimar is not going far.

Fludd works from wherever I spray. Period. If I jump high and fludd you, it works high. If I drop low and Fludd, it works low. There's no "it only works in this situation" because it works in every situation. The only thing that limits effectiveness is the character; that's it. Olimar isn't a character that limits this.

Listen to what you're saying. If you jump and spray Olimar as he's falling what have you accomplished? You've slowed him down and now he's falling in the just about the same direction, only less quick. Now he has the option of just ledgehopping over the ledge.

The only time Fludd is going to work is if Olimar is coming in from the side of the stage where he needs to get close enough for a recovery.

Cape is for reversing momentum, not turning around your character because you could easily just turn right back around with your upB. If you're suddenly moving in the other direction, however, this gives mario more time to grab the edge or possibly force you to upB the wrong way because you're aiming in the directions of your momentum. We also have ledgestalling with the cape, so spiking us with your upB is a little more difficult as well.

Whistle completely nullifies it there is no giving Mario more time to do anything because it's hasn't done anything.

Quite possible =/= not likely. Quite possible = likely
Hair-splitting will get you nowhere.

"Possible: Capable of happening, existing, or being true without contradicting proven facts, laws, or circumstances. Of uncertain likelihood."

"Likely: Within the realm of credibility; plausible. Apt to achieve success or yield a desired outcome; promising."

The two defintions are far from splitting hairs. Being possible does not mean it's likely to happen. It's quite possible that we will runout of gasoline in the near future, but it is not likely that we will; due to alternative fuel sources.

Again, limited Mario knowledge.

Please, fill in the apparently spacious gap of knowledge I do not have on Mario.

Olimar has good DI, and can often put himself out of harms way, I'll admit. His aerial options aren't so good from below, however and can't always protect him from being pushed right back off.

I bet you haven't had someone fall on you using Nair have you? We don't even need aerials from below, if you're able to consistantly go beneath us then we'll just whistle and go from there.

Even then, Mario has a fast upB. Not faster than a tether, but it doesn't need to be when you've been caped. I'm honestly not sure what effect caping has on Olimar while whistled, however.

Cape is nullified.