MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[Keoki]

Have we done G&W yet? sorry i dont know but the original post doesnt recap the matchups and i dont want to read 16 pages to try to find it >.< so if someone could just tell me what page g&w is on, or if we have not done him can we do him next? i know the decision is boss's but just making a suggestion since its a hard match up. if we already covered g&w sorry for this stupid post as for diddy, take advantage of his banana's, make him wish he never pulled em out xD

 

[BoTastic!]

Have we done G&W yet? sorry i dont know but the original post doesnt recap the matchups and i dont want to read 16 pages to try to find it >.< so if someone could just tell me what page g&w is on, or if we have not done him can we do him next? i know the decision is boss's but just making a suggestion since its a hard match up. if we already covered g&w sorry for this stupid post as for diddy, take advantage of his banana's, make him wish he never pulled em out xD

yea we discussed him early but this is why the first post should be updated.

 

[Takeshi245]

Mario vs. Diddy Kong is 6-4 in Diddy Kong's advantage due to what we've discussed. Why don't we move on to Fox or Ike later on now?

 

[Judge Judy]

Ike is too easy XD

 

[BoTastic!]

Ike is too easy XD

so is fox.. but not as easy as Ike.

 

[hippiedude92]

Let's do D3! Or did we discuss that already? Infintes are homo :[

 

[BoTastic!]

Let's do D3! Or did we discuss that already? Infintes are homo :[

lol i don't even know.. the OP isn't updated with the past match up discussions.

 

[Blackbelt]

lol i don't even know.. the OP isn't updated with the past match up discussions.

Why is that, anyway?


if he hasn't been discussed yet, I say we talk about Kirby.

 

[boss8]

moving on to GaW

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Boss...look at page 2...we disscused G&W already

 

[boss8]

Boss...look at page 2...we disscused G&W already

my bad ummmmmm........Zamus(zero suit)

 

[Bl4nk]

I would think that ZSS would be vulnerable to the cape ledge stalling because she has a tether recovery. Might be wrong though, i don't play against these kind of characters that much.

 

[hippiedude92]

I haven't fought a good ZSS, but I do know she's almost like a Marth in similar ways ( Sideb tip = stronger) Shes the hardest to gimp with the tether recovery since she has a, projectile that stuns you, a extra jump and a very long range tether. Her dsmash is a close ranged and stuns you making you unable to move so.. she usually combos you after that.

That's all i can think of as of now.

 

[boss8]

i hate fighting zero suit due to range and priority and combo speed its annoying.....

 

[BoTastic!]

i've faced plenty of good Zamus's. She can be difficult at times but not that hard.

Her Side b is so telegraphed.. U can avoid this so easily. This is what makes it different from Marth's fsmash, which is very fast. Even tho, her sideB has a bit of range staying in her face and not too far from her gives her a hard time of fighting you. Mario's jabs are faster and better and zamus's CQC. her Fsmash is laggy.. her sideB is laggy, her grab is laggy.. her dsmash is laggy, and so is her Nuetral B. idk if Mario's jabs beat zamus's or not.

correct me if im wrong but i think zamus's hitbox for her Bair are pretty small.

Her Uair can be a pain try to stay below her.

Gimping her recovery depends on the situation. If she's recovering high, you gotta work on timing to actually gimp her which is difficult. If she's recovering low (which is unlikely) she's a bit easier to gimp, fludd and cape pretty much do the job along with cape stalling on he ledge to gain invinciblity frames to stop her tether.

Zamus is also very light. Killing her with a fresh fsmash or Usmash is satisfying.

My strategy in fighting Zamus is staying close to her and even when she's trying to camp, I use cape and fludd to my advantage.

I'm going wih 5:5 even.

 

[Matador]

Zamus can be troublesome if they know what they're doing. Insane combo potential, and better range. She gets KO'd at very low % and is vulnerable to fireball approaches. Tricky to edgeguard due to tether and jumps, but not too difficult. She kills us at about 130% with DI from her SideB.

I give this one to Mario but only slightly. We should get a ZSS main in here to argue their side. I'm super biased.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Zamus? This matchup seems sooooo obscure. I dunno about you, but I don't see many people who use ZSS.

I mean I can tell you Mario is soooo much better at scoring KOs in this matchup, although ZSS does outrange most ppls. I don't know anything else. =(

 

[hippiedude92]

So... anyone want to voulunteer and go to ZSS boards and ask and argue and stuffs?..?

 

[BoTastic!]

meh i'll go

 

[Matador]

meh i'll go

I got ur back son

 

[Famous]

Other than Marth, this ha got to be my hardest matchup with Mario...It may be because I hardly get to play a good ZSS

 

[Adapt]

i've faced plenty of good Zamus's. She can be difficult at times but not that hard.

Her Side b is so telegraphed.. U can avoid this so easily. This is what makes it different from Marth's fsmash, which is very fast. Even tho, her sideB has a bit of range staying in her face and not too far from her gives her a hard time of fighting you. Mario's jabs are faster and better and zamus's CQC. her Fsmash is laggy.. her sideB is laggy, her grab is laggy.. her dsmash is laggy, and so is her Nuetral B. idk if Mario's jabs beat zamus's or not.

correct me if im wrong but i think zamus's hitbox for her Bair are pretty small.

Her Uair can be a pain try to stay below her.

Gimping her recovery depends on the situation. If she's recovering high, you gotta work on timing to actually gimp her which is difficult. If she's recovering low (which is unlikely) she's a bit easier to gimp, fludd and cape pretty much do the job along with cape stalling on he ledge to gain invinciblity frames to stop her tether.

Zamus is also very light. Killing her with a fresh fsmash or Usmash is satisfying.

My strategy in fighting Zamus is staying close to her and even when she's trying to camp, I use cape and fludd to my advantage.

I'm going wih 5:5 even.

I'm not the best ZSS, but I do fight someone who regularly uses mario.


Side-B: to paraphrase ph00tbag, it's a pleasant surprise when side-B hits. Its a spacing tool, It keeps you from getting too close We don't expect to hit you all that much unless we stunned you first. It has very little ending lag too.

Jab: her jab comes out in one frame (mario is not faster lol), you can shield the third hit though so it will be regularly switched up. Sometimes she can jab again before you can shieldgrab the third hit.

Fsmash is rarely used, same with grab... unless out of a stun. Grab does have a few other uses, especially mindgames with the armor parts at the beginning of a match.

The bair's hitbox is quite large in fact (her entire leg up to the hip at least), but it is only out for like a frame. I rarely miss a bair that isn't airdodged.

I find that Mario is easier to gimp with ZSS than vice versa. Losing the tornado kinda hurt your recovery options. Her tether goes through fludd, and cape is only short range compared to her tethers. You are right that her options are more limited when she is recovering from below and that is where you will get your gimps. Your ledgestalling with the cape might be pretty good against ZSS coming from below, but my friend doesn't abuse that so I'm not sure.

Your advantage is power and survival. I also hate coming at mario from above. Fireballs are quite annoying when used correctly too...


***This topic is prolly interesting to you because everything was tested on Mario:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178317
(Attack knockback, kill percentages w/o DI etc)

 

[BoTastic!]

Other than Marth, this ha got to be my hardest matchup with Mario...It may be because I hardly get to play a good ZSS

no. zamus isn't hard like marth.. not even close... its about even.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Hello ladies and gentlemen...
So, let's check this out the basics.
Mario is heavier than ZSS.
Samus has a faster running speed.
Mario cannot be stunlocked.
ZSS's non projectile moves outrange Marios.
Marios fireballs cannot be ducked.
Mario has a lower falling speed than ZSS.
ZSS can move horizontally in air faster than Mario.

Feel free to add anything, I probably won't have any in depth analysis or something though.

 

[BoTastic!]

find that Mario is easier to gimp with ZSS than vice versa. Losing the tornado kinda hurt your recovery options. Her tether goes through fludd, and cape is only short range compared to her tethers. You are right that her options are more limited when she is recovering from below and that is where you will get your gimps.

actually.. because of the game's phsyics... Mario's recovery isn't bad at all. Mario can be very low at the stage and can still make it back up. also because of Mario's Cape, fireballs, Fair, and Uair he can also protect himself when recovering.

 

[Adapt]

actually.. because of the game's phsyics... Mario's recovery isn't bad at all. Mario can be very low at the stage and can still make it back up. also because of Mario's Cape, fireballs, Fair, and Uair he can also protect himself when recovering.

I'm not saying its bad really, I find it to be in the same boat as marth. If you time the edgehog right he's a goner. It's not exactly easy though, I really hate how much priority that the super jump punch has... I can't think of a move right now that beats it (without superarmor or invincibility)

 

[BoTastic!]

I'm not saying its bad really, I find it to be in the same boat as marth. If you time the edgehog right he's a goner. It's not exactly easy though, I really hate how much priority that the super jump punch has... I can't think of a move right now that beats it (without superarmor or invincibility)

oh ok thats exactly where i was getting too. Zamus's recovery is above averge.. while Mario's is about average. Ur right about edgehogging him because of Mario's predictable recovery.

 

[hippiedude92]

Looks like you got some peeps over here nice job Bo X7.

 

[BoTastic!]

Looks like you got some peeps over here nice job Bo X7.

lol thx. I didn't know someone will respond fast enough tho.

 

[hippiedude92]

So, I've seen the ZSS combo video and it's pretty nasty as hell. Seeing, as ZSS upb and her upsmash is dangerous if your above her, so it's ZSS with the upb/Upsmash, > everything Mario got when hes directly above her? ( well duh common sense to gtfo the way lol.)

Have any hunchs on what a ZSS stage hates?

 

[BoTastic!]

Ur best bet on fighting zamus s staying as close to her as possible and staying below her.

 

[hippiedude92]

So I'm guessing a fireball approach is best one since she can't duck and her projectile moves slower but still stuns depending on the charge up thinggy. It's almost as if it's DK but she has a projectile and stuff.. So basically close quarters and stay out of her range.

 

[Takeshi245]

Mario's backward uairs are good at eating Zamus's shield. I've done it against EPF's Zamus and it was sweet.

 

[Matador]

I find that Mario is easier to gimp with ZSS than vice versa. Losing the tornado kinda hurt your recovery options. Her tether goes through fludd, and cape is only short range compared to her tethers. You are right that her options are more limited when she is recovering from below and that is where you will get your gimps. Your ledgestalling with the cape might be pretty good against ZSS coming from below, but my friend doesn't abuse that so I'm not sure.

I have to disagree. Capestall isnt too good of an option against Tether recovery characters; too much time to nab the edge, all you'd need is timing. You don't ever fludd when anyone's close enough to tether because at that point, it doesn't even do much. You Fludd from a distance to kill momentum, then go out for a cape/aerial to do the actual gimping. The only people difficult to gimp for mario are those that can recover above him consistently.

I don't know about ZSS' edgeguarding options, but I'm sure they can't be better that Mario's are for her.

Mario's recovery is better than his recovery in melee in every way.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

-Annoying with the constant A,A,A whenever in close combat
-Very quick Bair/Uair will own mario's slow a$$
-Highly capable of setting you up to play where they want you to be if you don't see it coming.
-If Zamus manages to stun you, easy to rack you up with damage very quickly
-Can grab you from a good distance easily

+Light, easy to KO with fresh smashes at low %'s, especially when at the edge of the stage
+If you stay in her face, her moves are too slow to really do much. Batt her up.
+SH Fireballs are really you're best friend when approaching from a distance, closing in.
+You're downsmash is very nice when close and grounded (They usually jab just to push you back)
+Can be easily gimped by fluud and cape, but situational depending on the recovery Zamus is using and more importantly has left at her disposal.

 

[Takeshi245]

Just bumping up the thread, people.

 

[Matador]

Just bumping up the thread, people.

Good 'ol Tak. Always doin the right thing

*pinches cheeks*

Seriously tho, none of the ZSS mains that came really gave us what they thought on the matchup, as in a rating. They just said Mario's recovery sucks and left

I think we need to go ahead and snatch another and find out what they think.

 

[Adapt]

try to get snakeee to comment, he may have something to say

the rating on our boards is 50-50 iirc

 

[Matador]

try to get snakeee to comment, he may have something to say

the rating on our boards is 50-50 iirc

Much appreciated there sir.

 

[Snakeee]

I have to disagree. Capestall isnt too good of an option against Tether recovery characters; too much time to nab the edge, all you'd need is timing. You don't ever fludd when anyone's close enough to tether because at that point, it doesn't even do much. You Fludd from a distance to kill momentum, then go out for a cape/aerial to do the actual gimping. The only people difficult to gimp for mario are those that can recover above him consistently.

I don't know about ZSS' edgeguarding options, but I'm sure they can't be better that Mario's are for her.

Mario's recovery is better than his recovery in melee in every way.

ZSS is one of the best edgeguarders in the game, IMO she's 2nd only to Metaknight in that department. The thing is that hardly any ZSS mains really put that to good use. Forward B off the stage is amazing for one.

Your main advantage against us is really the cape. Right off the bat, it's going to be harder for ZSS to attack with her armor parts.

Worse than this though, and something I bet few people realize is that you can cape ZSS' down B. Because of this, Mario is one of the only characters that can truly gimp ZSS. If I'm recovering and I'm forced to down B, you can force me in the other direction and I'll most likely be screwed. So, actually this is one of the few match ups for us where the opponent will have the edgeguarding advantage. Keep in mind though that this only works if ZSS HAS to recover with down-b. Her jumps are very high and she can often even make it back to the stage without it.

In comparing recoveries, I think ZSS still has the better recovery even WITHOUT the down B.

And I'll add that another advantage for Mario is his priority. More of his attacks I believe will beat hers.

Mario's fireballs haven't really been a problem for me. Yeah ZSS' paralyzer shots are a little slower, but I can get around by just shooting one to clash with one fireball and short hop airdodge another.


On our side, ZSS has speed, range, and ability to KO in her favor. Mario may have a couple of stronger attacks than her, but they are also harder to hit with. It comes down to the fact that ZSS has more attacks that are good for KOing.
The comboing ability for both characters is very good (especially for Brawl XD). I think ZSS is slightly the better comboer though.

All in all, it's about an even match up