MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[Matador]

ZSS is one of the best edgeguarders in the game, IMO she's 2nd only to Metaknight in that department. The thing is that hardly any ZSS mains really put that to good use. Forward B off the stage is amazing for one.

I can see how that'd be a sick edgeguarding tool, albeit difficult to space.

Your main advantage against us is really the cape. Right off the bat, it's going to be harder for ZSS to attack with her armor parts.
Worse than this though, and something I bet few people realize is that you can cape ZSS' down B. Because of this, Mario is one of the only characters that can truly gimp ZSS. If I'm recovering and I'm forced to down B, you can force me in the other direction and I'll most likely be screwed. So, actually this is one of the few match ups for us where the opponent will have the edgeguarding advantage.
And I'll add that another advantage for Mario is his priority.

Agreed

On our side, ZSS has speed, range, and ability to KO in her favor. Mario may have a couple of stronger attacks than her, but they are also harder to hit with. It comes down to the fact that ZSS has more attacks that are good for KOing.
The comboing ability for both characters is very good (especially for Brawl XD). I think ZSS is slightly the better comboer though.

I'll have to disagree here. ZSS, imo, has far better combo ability than Mario. Plenty of setups and almost all safer. Mario's only safe combo starter is the fireball approach. Though it's his best bet, it's relatively situational.

Mario's Up-angled Fsmash KOs at 100%, and his Usmash at about 120%. Usmash doesn't require any set-up can be a lag punisher because of its priority, range, and KO power. Fsmash can be done from jab or followed by a sh Bair for KO and doesn't require sweetspot. Bthrow is very situational but kills ZSS at about 120% if next to the edge with DI. Nair KOs at around 110% and can be done from jab, followed by a fireball, or from shield. This needs to be sweet spotted, but has decent KO power when hits right.

Even without those attacks, Mario still has his Bair, Uair, and Fair at higher percents (140-150%) to score some KOs. All of his aerials can follow her offstage as well if needed by Capeglide; preserving his second jump. ZSS doesn't have this many options to my knowledge.

 

[Snakeee]

I don't have all the percentages, but ZSS mostly kills with Forward B, B-air, Up-air, F-air, Down B. I wasn't talking about KO power though, just that it's easier for her to pull them off and there are more set ups for them.

 

[Matador]

I don't have all the percentages, but ZSS mostly kills with Forward B, B-air, Up-air, F-air, Down B. I wasn't talking about KO power though, just that it's easier for her to pull them off and there are more set ups for them.

ah, alright then.

Ratio on the matchup?

 

[BoTastic!]

ah, alright then.

Ratio on the matchup?

5:5 nuetral Like it was before

 

[boss8]

snakee get out of the mario boards......

 

[Colbert]

I guess I'm here too late, but I don't think Diddy Kong has an advantage on Mario at all. Diddy has been my main since before the game came out at E for All.

Trust me, you won't be able to control Diddy's bananas well at all. A cape can thow them off a bit but a good Diddy isn't going to let his bananas be controlled. Your best bet is caping some bananas but mostly just staying aerial with lots of short hops and controlling the air. The air game doesn't seem to be in Diddy's favor by much if at all.

In my opinion, Mario is somewhat tough to edgeguard with all the things going on at once with fireballs and such and Diddy's best bet seems to use peanuts and edgehog.

I got completely ***** by bkpalmstriker one time and his Mario's edgegame destroyed me. The cape stall, normal capes, fireballs, fair, and up b stage spike all got me. Diddy's recovery honestly isn't unpredictable at all. Forward b doesn't have priority unless you let out the kick, but then you wont be able to use the rockets. Up B is easy to cape (especially with the stall) and fireball and probably even gimp with dair. Remember, a forward b isn't going to reach the stage every time. If you force Diddy to go above the edge when you're hanging on it with that cape stall more kill opportunities will open up.

 

[Takeshi245]

I guess I'm here too late, but I don't think Diddy Kong has an advantage on Mario at all. Diddy has been my main since before the game came out at E for All.

Trust me, you won't be able to control Diddy's bananas well at all. A cape can thow them off a bit but a good Diddy isn't going to let his bananas be controlled. Your best bet is caping some bananas but mostly just staying aerial with lots of short hops and controlling the air. The air game doesn't seem to be in Diddy's favor by much if at all.

In my opinion, Mario is somewhat tough to edgeguard with all the things going on at once with fireballs and such and Diddy's best bet seems to use peanuts and edgehog.

I got completely ***** by bkpalmstriker one time and his Mario's edgegame destroyed me. The cape stall, normal capes, fireballs, fair, and up b stage spike all got me. Diddy's recovery honestly isn't unpredictable at all. Forward b doesn't have priority unless you let out the kick, but then you wont be able to use the rockets. Up B is easy to cape (especially with the stall) and fireball and probably even gimp with dair. Remember, a forward b isn't going to reach the stage every time. If you force Diddy to go above the edge when you're hanging on it with that cape stall more kill opportunities will open up.

It's 6-4 in Diddy Kong's advantage. We've discussed this already and we're done with Zero Suit Samus. How about we talk about Ike? This ought to be good.

 

[Snakeee]

Oh yeah , I should have mentioned that ZSS can usually just do the down B early while recovering. I made it sound too much like the cape made it completely useless.

And shut up Boss, but you're right I shouldn't be helping you lol. Now that you know our secrets the MM is off XD. Nah I'm joking.

 

[boss8]

lol you no i wuz jp >_>

 

[Takeshi245]

I hope next week is this guy (found it on the Ike boards):

 

[cHooKay]

I hope next week is this guy (found it on the Ike boards):

LOL....

 

[boss8]

wow seriously seriously......

 

[cHooKay]

hahaha sorry, in any case, i think mario does well against zss, considering the fact that mario can approach her extremely well with fireballs. I'd abused that constantly, as well mario's cape. Her arials have less priority, and i tend to cape her arials constantly.

While grounded, shield dashing to dsmash or grab REALLY helps this match within my favor too, as well as taking advantage of mario's priority over zss . I'd say if it wasn't for zss combo ability and range, mario would certainly have a distinct advantage over her...

 

[jmanxiv]

Sh fireballs. It mess up Zss aproach.

 

[Mario_ 101]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbrMI8VcFzk

What about that 0_0 looks just as bad as IC's chainthrow.

 

[Snakeee]

That vid was removed, but I'm assuming its the chain d-smash on Fox. Yeah it's 0-death and inescapable, but it has no effect on Mario so no worries for you guys.

 

[Blackbelt]

That vid was removed, but I'm assuming its the chain d-smash on Fox. Yeah it's 0-death and inescapable, but it has no effect on Mario so no worries for you guys.

The video is back up.


Man, Fox is screwed.

 

[boss8]

ok lucario time!!!

 

[Natolis]

i really prefered mewtwo
but i have to deal with it

 

[hippiedude92]

Well, it looks like the ZSS was not much a discussion. o welliezzz

I found the matchup discussion between Mario vs Lucario in the Lucario boards ( I hope they don't mind D

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4927617

 

[SkylerOcon]

That guy pretty much has it down.

I would change the ratio to 6:4 in Mario's favor though, because I find Lucario pretty easy to gimp.

 

[BoTastic!]

I say its even but i may not be able to go real deep into the match up

 

[Blackbelt]

Well, it looks like the ZSS was not much a discussion. o welliezzz

I found the matchup discussion between Mario vs Lucario in the Lucario boards ( I hope they don't mind D

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4927617

They more or less have it right.

 

[hippiedude92]

I'm really too lazy to go indepth since I already posted the link. All I can say is get them offstage and epic win with the fludd/cape

 

[mario brawler]

yea I think mario has the slight advantage mario's air movement is faster than lucario's which I find helpfull against the few that I play, and yes extreme speed can be caped fairly easillyI can manage his uair with dodges and does their double team EVER work?,still lucario can continously keep fairing you out the field not that bad unless you use your second jump in the middle of it and his Fsmash outranges ours

 

[Matador]

Adv Lucario. His aerial game >>>> Mario's. Better comboability, jab game, range, and priority on pretty much his whole moveset. Utilt chains and Uair chains are killed by DI -> Dair. Mario's only pro in this matchup is that he can KO Lucario at lower %.

Lucario's edgeguarding on Mario is more effective than Mario's edgeguarding on Lucario. He can chase you out with Fairs, ledgehop Dairs, and Fastfall Bairs with no risk to his recovery. We can Fludd, cape, and ledgehog but that can easily be screwed up by Dair stalls and AS. At higher %, this matchup gets VERY bad especially if the Lucario plays campy. Fsmash is too good for spacing and AS hurts your approaches.

6:4 Lucario's favor.

 

[Takeshi245]

Adv Lucario. His aerial game >>>> Mario's. Better comboability, jab game, range, and priority on pretty much his whole moveset. Utilt chains and Uair chains are killed by DI -> Dair. Mario's only pro in this matchup is that he can KO Lucario at lower %.

Lucario's edgeguarding on Mario is more effective than Mario's edgeguarding on Lucario. He can chase you out with Fairs, ledgehop Dairs, and Fastfall Bairs with no risk to his recovery. We can Fludd, cape, and ledgehog but that can easily be screwed up by Dair stalls and AS. At higher %, this matchup gets VERY bad especially if the Lucario plays campy. Fsmash is too good for spacing and AS hurts your approaches.

6:4 Lucario's favor.

Good point. I agree. I think we're all set with Lucario.

 

[mario brawler]

ooo never really played a good lucario, if all you said is accurate I must agree too (even tho I was hoping it'd be 5-5 XD) , I'd like to see kirby...**** Dair...

 

[BoTastic!]

Hmm i never really seen Lucario that hard. I still think its even.

-Lucario can gimp us easily with his Fair but thats probably where most his kills will be. His smashes are laggy so they are a bit telegraphed.
+Mario can gimp Lucario easier than he can gimp him. He can also kill Lucario easier since Lucario is floaty and a bit light. He's also isn' hard to Bair WoP because of his low fall speed.

 

[Matador]

Hmm i never really seen Lucario that hard. I still think its even.

-Lucario can gimp us easily with his Fair but thats probably where most his kills will be. His smashes are laggy so they are a bit telegraphed.
+Mario can gimp Lucario easier than he can gimp him. He can also kill Lucario easier since Lucario is floaty and a bit light. He's also isn' hard to Bair WoP because of his low fall speed.

Fair, Dair, AS offstage, and Bair with no risk to his recovery. He can also protect his recovery about as well as we can protect ours (if not better) with his AS, Dair stall, and whatever else I said in my previous post.

We can nab kills a bit quicker if the Lucario isn't playing defensively, but that's not always the case. His Fsmash has low ending lag, it's spammable, and has ridiculous range. AS can be used from a combo and kills at decent %. He's floaty, but has so much range, aerial mobility and priority that, if playing defensively, can be as bad as Jiggz to fight head to head.

Now, I've never actually had any trouble with any Lucarios because they were never that good and most of em were online, but I've seen more than enough to see that he could be a serious problem with good spacing; worse than Marth or DDD even. Not to mention the fact that I use him as one of my secondaries.

 

[BoTastic!]

He's good at spacing but i have more than enough trouble with Marth's and DDD's spacing.

 

[mario brawler]

man I really need to fight a good lucario player,6-4 just keeps running through my head
every lucario I fight get's a good match, mario's fireball aproach always works for me and they're always real care about the AS,you know with the cape and all

 

[hippiedude92]

He's good at spacing but i have more than enough trouble with Marth's and DDD's spacing.

Agreed with this post. It look like most of us was lazy to post a more indepth idea for Lucario well except with Matador. Shall we move on to the next character?

 

[mario brawler]

KIRBY!...please?

 

[BoTastic!]

Not to mention, Mario negates Lucario's aura ball camping, because of Maio's cape.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Not to mention, Mario negates Lucario's aura ball camping, because of Maio's cape.

not enough to even out the match though....60:40 in my opinion....anyway....



I like how I see that this thread is updated with a new characters...and the match up has already been concluded

 

[Matador]

Agreed with this post. It look like most of us was lazy to post a more indepth idea for Lucario well except with Matador. Shall we move on to the next character?

Silly Matador, always tryin to making things difficult

Just playing devil's advocate here. Only way we can really keep objectivity. Kirby should be interesting.

 

[mario brawler]

does anyone besides me find kirby's dair annoying?

 

[Matador]

does anyone besides me find kirby's dair annoying?

Yeah, especially if they ever have any vs Mario experience. They know how to angle the dair around fireballs and whatnot. It's really not that difficult to gimp Mario as Kirby.

More in depth discussion on Kirby on his week...

 

[mario brawler]

can't wait...or can I?