MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[boss8]

moving on to pokemon trainer aka charizard....squirtle......ivysaur....

 

[Blackbelt]

Squirtle: Advantage Mario. ANything Squirtle can do, mario can do just as well. Squirtl has fast Aerials, Mario has fast aerials. Squirtle has Water Gun, Mario has FLUDD. That, and our ground game is better, we have the cape, and squirtle is painfully light.

Ivysaur: Neutral. Ivysaur has an impressive camping game, but once we get past it, we can start juggling. On the ground, Ivysaur has alot of range, and packs the strongest Up Smash in the game. The only thing stopping Ivy from having the advantage is the painfully crappy recovery.

Charizard: Advantage Charizard. Charizard beats us on both offense and defense. being ble to outrange mosyt of our attacks. His weight makes him hard to kill, and yet he's floaty to the point that juggling is a bit harder than it should be.His recovery is also a bit hard to gimp due to the fact he has multiple jumps, and the fact he glides. And he has a nice meteor smash. All in all, a hard fight.

Overall: Neutral.

 

[mario brawler]

chraizard does'nt have a very solid approach tho,and we can approach him easier,juggling hiim is'nt that hard,his DJ's is pretty easy to cape scince he's such a large target,his glie is also the slowest in the game=cape
fludd also works better scince he's heavy
I agree with everything else though
I'd go 55-45 slighty in mario's favor,but 5-5 still seem's accurate
(oh and is'nt lucas' the strongest up-smash in the game?)

 

[BoTastic!]

Squirtle is he easiet one of them all. less range than mario, lightweight, easy to juggle, very weak, laggy smashes and gimpable recovery.

Ivy can be a bit hard at times. Cape his Side B, its a bad projectile and its slow. Watch out for his Nair it can lead up to a few set ups. His Nuetral B stops you from fighting above him. He's easy to juggle, and rediculously easy to gimp. His Usmash kill mario around 80%, don't get hit by this move, he also has more range with his Bair, Ftilt nd Fsmash. I say this is even.

Charazard is also difficult, but this may be even. His weight and fall speed makes him beyond easy to Uair bind to Fair off the stage. His defensive maneuvers are real good. Rock smash and his sheild grabbing afterwards can be very annoying. He's easy to gimp. not that easy to KO because of his heavy body. He also outranges you and kills you fast. He's very slow though and his Fsmash is easily telegraphed. Even.

 

[Matador]

We're done with Olimar? Well...

 

[mario brawler]

We're done with Olimar? Well...

don't worry I agreed with you XD

 

[Matador]

don't worry I agreed with you XD

That excellence kid didn't, and he got the last word. He's gonna have the thought in the back of his mind that he's right.

Anyways, my experience here is limited, none of my usuals use these guys and I've never played a PT main online. I'm thinking adv Mario 6.5:3.5 since the only person I see giving him problems is Charizard. Even then, he's not nearly as bad as Bowser.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I don't know what you're smoking that makes you think Ivysaur is tougher than the other two....he can be combo'd easily and gimped at laughable %s

 

[vato_break]

He's also the lightest of all of them.Fsmash has about same range of marios fsmash.uh....

 

[BoTastic!]

In my post i say even. My opinion can be changed if someone can change it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't know what you're smoking that makes you think Ivysaur is tougher than the other two....he can be combo'd easily and gimped at laughable %s

^this.

The only thing Ivysaur has on you is grab range really. You do everything else better otherwise. You do more damage per hit, you are better at comboing, landing kill moves, and living especially off stage.

Squirtle is the hardest because you can't really camp against him cause he's so ****ing small and hard to hit and he literally walks forward a mile while jabbing. And his grab range is ridiculous for his size. And his aerial game is good enough to be a threat. His recovery is gimpable, but requires good timing to cape.

Charizard you can limit his movement with fireballs and combo him. He can glide though so he can live longer than the others and his kill moves are pretty dangerous in terms of range and power.

I'd say overall Mario has the advantage on the PT. If slightly. The main trouble you get is from Squirtle who is able to maintain more options than the other two. Ideally you should be getting a lot of kills from gimps in general.

 

[BoTastic!]

Squirtle is not hard. really. He's fast and has a very good aerial game along with decent grab range i'd give him that.

But he can be camped and gimped just as well as the others, he's harder to hit but he still has to approach you more than you do to him. Mario can also juggle him jut as easy as squitle can juggle Mario. He's light, and not even a floaty. He has too much trouble killing you with those laggy smashes not to mention they have horrible range as well. His only reliable way of killing is edgeguarding (which Mario is better at) and his Usmash which comes out pretty fast but im touchy about the range of his Usmash.

Im more worried about Charazard and Ivy.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

if you're more worried about ivysaur...then you have some issues...everyone should just keep quoting my one post untill it's burned into people's minds

 

[BoTastic!]

I'm not saying Ivy's real hard but he isn't real easy. Im pointing out that squirtle isn't hard at all.

 

[mario brawler]

squirtle<mario
ivy(easy gimp)<mario
charizard(easy comboing)=mario

 

[Blackbelt]

He's also th

 

[Onxy]

Off stage I will say that Mario > Ivysaur, but what about on stage? All I read is how Ivy gets gimped. That's like saying everyone has an advantage on Olimar because you can grab the ledge, and watch him use his up B and die.

 

[vato_break]

He's also th

huh wth your trippin man.

 

[Matador]

squirtle<mario

lol wut?

Mario's better than Squirtle in every way. He even has a better water gun.

 

[Kanzaki]

Mario's better than Squirtle, the thing bout Squirtle is that he has Shellshifting/Hydroplanning, which makes him a bit annoying, but doesn't make him equal to Mario. Squirtle has good aerials, but I think Mario's are better, minus the dair, I think Squirtle's dair is better.. That's bout it..? Squirtle's watergun can actually do damage though, unlike Mario's super soaker.

I think I read somewhere that they played Pokemon elementals into effect, Fire > Leaf... so if Ivysaur was to be hit with a fire move, there would be more damage/knockback? If so, Mario's fireball/Side smash > Ivysaur. Ivysaur's too easy to gimp, easier than Olimar in my opinion. Ivysaur has a good bair/nair, but just space and Mario should be good.. Get of the edge, cape stall a bit, and Ivysaur's dead for the most part..

Charizard... not much to say.. he's big? Combo away? You can cape his rock smash, after he smashes it, so that the small bits hits him.. that's all I gotta say.



My first Brawl tourny, I played a Pokemon Trainer.. mainly Ivysaur, and Mario's cape stall > Ivysaur :]

 

[A2ZOMG]

Off stage I will say that Mario > Ivysaur, but what about on stage? All I read is how Ivy gets gimped. That's like saying everyone has an advantage on Olimar because you can grab the ledge, and watch him use his up B and die.

Vs Ivysaur, Mario has better camping due to having a more spammable projectile that goes farther and has more control. He does more damage per hit, has better combos, and has more reliable kill moves. I'm pretty sure Mario can punish Ivysaur's F-smash with his own F-smash by means of stutter stepping.

Ivysaur's main advantage vs Mario on stage is grab range.

 

[Onxy]

Vs Ivysaur, Mario has better camping due to having a more spammable projectile that goes farther and has more control. He does more damage per hit, has better combos, and has more reliable kill moves. I'm pretty sure Mario can punish Ivysaur's F-smash with his own F-smash by means of stutter stepping.

Ivysaur's main advantage vs Mario on stage is grab range.

Control as in it falls to the ground, and rolls for a couple of seconds?

Mario most likely does more damage, but he is severely out-ranged.

Better combos? I watched many of your videos, and it seems like chaining things into Uairs is all he can do (which is okay, he can probably do more, but I wouldn't really call those better)

He does not have more reliable kill moves. If you think Ivy's best Kill move is Fsmash, then you are terribly mistaken.

You're right about the grab range, and that she can grab Mario out of every move.

 

[HeroMystic]

I gotta say Ivysaur is crap against Mario. She is very easy to combo, and a lot of Ivysaur's moves are punishable due to the ending lag, and honestly plenty of her moves are quite predictable. The only redeeming factors are Ivysaur's U-air, d-air, and standard attack.

Charizard stands a better chance, but not too much. He fits in the same category of being comboed easily, but he has things in his arsenal to fight back with, like Rock Smash (you can't spot dodge a Rock Smash.. but you can cape it. >=) ), but the main thing about Charizard is that his recovery is quite easy to gimp.

If you're gonna take on Mario, you should might as well keep Squirtle out the whole time. He's your best contender against Mario due to the annoying speed, and that U-smash is sick.

 

[BoTastic!]

Did anyone read my post? >_>

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

No one reads anything

 

[Matador]

I gotta say Ivysaur is crap against Mario. She is very easy to combo, and a lot of Ivysaur's moves are punishable due to the ending lag, and honestly plenty of her moves are quite predictable. The only redeeming factors are Ivysaur's U-air, d-air, and standard attack.

Charizard stands a better chance, but not too much. He fits in the same category of being comboed easily, but he has things in his arsenal to fight back with, like Rock Smash (you can't spot dodge a Rock Smash.. but you can cape it. >=) ), but the main thing about Charizard is that his recovery is quite easy to gimp.

If you're gonna take on Mario, you should might as well keep Squirtle out the whole time. He's your best contender against Mario due to the annoying speed, and that U-smash is sick.

Ivy has always been my hardest because he outranges you. Getting close is rather difficult if they know how to abuse their Bair and razorleaf. Bullet seed makes approach aerially unsafe and he can KO at lower % from Usmash, Uair, and Fsmash. of course, this could easily become the easiest because he can be combo'd easily, KO'd at low % and gimped at even lower %.

Charizard's the easiest because of how well he can be combo'd. He can be KO'd at 100% from unstaled Fsmash from the edge, and easy to edgeguard. He has power and range, but not much else.

Squirtle's a little harder than Charizard due to his quick aerials. He's KO'd at low % and easy to rack up damage with Bair WoP and Bair combos.

This is from personal experience, however, so w/e. I read your post BO X7

 

[HeroMystic]

Did anyone read my post? >_>

Not till just now. <_<

But honestly, I -never- had trouble against Ivysaur and only a bit of trouble against Charizard. Squirtle is the only thing I had problems against, but I can blame half of that on button lag on WiFi.

 

[Kanzaki]

Not till just now. <_<

But honestly, I -never- had trouble against Ivysaur and only a bit of trouble against Charizard. Squirtle is the only thing I had problems against, but I can blame half of that on button lag on WiFi.

Unless you're like pro on WiFi and adjusted your game 100% to the button lag, no johns, everybody gets that button lag =/

 

[HeroMystic]

Button Lag on Mario is worse than the button lag on Squirtle. Squirtle goes to run circles around you, and Mario stops him in his tracks. It's harder to time your attacks with button lag.

Of course I'm not trying to diss any players skilled with Squirtle, but WiFi really does make it harder to stop speedy attacks.

 

[Charizard92]

So, how exactly are you supposed to play Mario? please answer, as I can give my verdict then. For PT...

Squirtle: AKA, the ninja turtle, in my professional opinion, he is unreliable. On paper, Squirtle should be good, air game like crazy, an OK+ grab game to compliment, a tiny size, and the shell shift. However, there are so many flaws: Slow speed, light, KO moves don't work 'till the 100s, really easy to KO with the conventional method (the smash them off the stage). Be careful before the battle though, your Fsmash doesn't work as well as it should, as Squirtle takes less knockback from fire...

Ivysaur: Behold, the perfect image of the camper. Razor leaf will be spammed, and bullet seed will be used. Worrying about the Fsmash, then prepare to be blasted sky high with the Usmash. Connect with an Fsmash? well, that's a start, as Ivysaur gets sent farther with a fire attack (maybe that's why he's deemed light). Also, if you grab the ledge, you'll also take out his recovery, which is well known to be poor. Beware the Razor leaf, bair, ftilt, uair, dair, and Usmash though, they do add up.

Charizard: He will use a grab game against you (if' you're facing a PT who knows what he's doing). Rock Smash and Flamethrower? You'll likely see them too. Bair and Dair, you'll want to be on the ground if they hit. Recovery, FLUDD can't gimp him out of a glide, and fly might be hard to get rid of (Poor recovery my ***). Smashes, they'll hurt, a lot. Tilts, oh yeah, they'll appear. What won't you see a Charizard do? Not much to my knowledge, he is pretty versatile, but the grab game is a given.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Control as in it falls to the ground, and rolls for a couple of seconds?

More spammable, covers better range. Also is affected by gravity meaning that it covers a variety of angles easily. Mario's Fireballs basically are able to control more space than Ivysaur's Razor leaf, and they are more spammable.

Mario most likely does more damage, but he is severely out-ranged.

Not a problem when Mario is easily winning the camping game by spamming Fireballs and has more mobility than Ivysaur so he can work inside her range. Razor Leaf can be deflected back into Ivsyaur before she can react too.

Better combos? I watched many of your videos, and it seems like chaining things into Uairs is all he can do (which is okay, he can probably do more, but I wouldn't really call those better)

Mario also has good setups from Fireballs, N-air, D-air, U-tilt (chains), and D-throw. But I'm not all that good of a Mario, so you rarely ever see me pull off good combos. <<

He does not have more reliable kill moves. If you think Ivy's best Kill move is Fsmash, then you are terribly mistaken.

Mario has kill moves that are faster and safer to use, hence he has more reliable kill moves. Sure Ivsyaur might have more moves that can kill...and my point about Ivysaur's F-smash was to emphasize how much range Mario's F-smash has when he stutter steps it.

I've played Teh_Spammerer online when he was using PT. By far, I've found that Ivysaur is easily Mario's best matchup vs PT.

Since most people argue Squirtle isn't bad for Mario, I'd have to then assume Charizard is the hardest of the three for Mario to deal with, but yeah, I guess I could agree with that since Teh_Spammerer got most of his KOs on me with Charizard if I recall lol.

 

[Onxy]

More spammable, covers better range.

Not a problem when Mario is easily winning the camping game by spamming Fireballs and has more mobility than Ivysaur so he can work inside her range. Razor Leaf can be deflected back into Ivsyaur before she can react too.

Mario also has good setups from Fireballs, N-air, D-air, and D-throw. But I'm not all that good of a Mario, so you rarely ever see me pull off good combos. <<

Mario has kill moves that are faster and safer to use, hence he has more reliable kill moves.

I doubt it covers more range.

Mario is a somewhat floaty character, and that's a no no when fighting Ivy. If Ivy can stop approaches from characters like DK, Squirtle, Kirby and what not, I'm sure Ivy can stop Mario, except that he has a decent projectile.

Ivy does the exact same thing as far as projectile followups are concerned.

His kill moves aren't that powerful, and they are somewhat safe. Ivy's kill moves are safe because it mostly revolves around the person being in the air. Ivy's best kill moves are Vinewhip, Uair, Fair, Dair, and Bthrow. Fsmash is also good, but the others should be considered first.

 

[BoTastic!]

A fresh Fsmash is quite powerful.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I doubt it covers more range.

Mario's Fireballs increase in range significantly when Mario fires them from an aerial position, so yes, they do cover more range.

Mario is a somewhat floaty character, and that's a no no when fighting Ivy. If Ivy can stop approaches from characters like DK, Squirtle, Kirby and what not, I'm sure Ivy can stop Mario, except that he has a decent projectile.

Well characters like DK have only one approach, so naturally you can easily stop his B-air if you have the right attack.

Mario camping with Fireballs forces you to change your defensive strategy however.

Ivy does the exact same thing as far as projectile followups are concerned.

No she can't. Mario has the ability to throw out a Fireball, follow behind it, and do an attack right as it hits his opponent, which can get him a free grab. Ivysaur's Razor Leaf has too much lag and she lacks good mobility, so no, Razor Leaf doesn't get her anywhere near as good of setups.

His kill moves aren't that powerful, and they are somewhat safe. Ivy's kill moves are safe because it mostly revolves around the person being in the air. Ivy's best kill moves are Vinewhip, Uair, Fair, Dair, and Bthrow.

Mario's U-smash kills at 120% fresh uncharged and works well out of shield or when charged from a Dash attack cancel, and his F-smash kills at 90some percent Up-angled (the sourspot only kills at 10% higher than the sweetspot, so that hardly matters). That's good enough for him since he's naturally racking on damage faster. Considering the great stutter step range of Mario's F-smash, if you whiff anything against him that is slightly laggy, expect to be punished by that if he knows what he's doing.

I haven't been killed by Vinewhip yet, but the F-air is only safe when retreating. U-air is pretty safe, except it is very unlikely to land except if you're platform punishing. D-air is awful when it misses, but I'll give that B-throw is good since you get to choose that from a grab.

 

[Kanzaki]

Why does Mario have to kill when he can just edge guard? o.O

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I don't know what you're smoking that makes you think Ivysaur is tougher than the other two....he can be combo'd easily and gimped at laughable %s

I'm enjoying this discussion cause I keep getting to quote myself...


The only thing Ivy really has on Mario is range and aerial killing...but once you get past that range it gets messy....

oh and lol at bullet seed destroying Mario's aerial approach...I'm not going to lie...I've been caught in bullet seed a few times...but hardly enough to consider it a threat

 

[Onxy]

Mario's Fireballs increase in range significantly when Mario fires them from an aerial position, so yes, they do cover more range.

Well characters like DK have only one approach, so naturally you can easily stop his B-air easily if you have the right attack.

Mario camping with Fireballs forces you to change your defensive strategy however.

No she can't. Mario has the ability to throw out a Fireball, follow behind it, and do an attack right as it hits his opponent, which can get him a free grab. Ivysaur's Razor Leaf has too much lag and she lacks good mobility, so no, Razor Leaf doesn't get her anywhere near as good of setups.

Mario's U-smash kills at 120% fresh uncharged and works well out of shield or when charged from a Dash attack cancel, and his F-smash kills at 90some percent Up-angled. That's good enough for him since he's naturally racking on damage faster.

I haven't been killed by Vinewhip yet, but the F-air is only safe when retreating. U-air is pretty safe, except it is very unlikely to land except if you're platform punishing. D-air is awful when it misses, but I'll give that B-throw is good since you get to choose that from a grab.

I know she has to change strategy, that's why I mentioned the Fireball.

No she can't? She has followups with her Razorleaf; such as grabbing, Nair, ect.

That's good to know that he can kill at 90%

You must not play Ivy that much at all. You can shorthop Uair if they are open for it. Dair is good near the edge. Good that you know Bthrow is also good. Fsmash is also good, has nice startup time, and range.

 

[HeroMystic]

Why does Mario have to kill when he can just edge guard? o.O

More awesomeness.

 

[BoTastic!]

Your right Monk, its not a threat, but don't underestimate it.
But really guys, Ivy is more of a problem than Squirtle. You shouldn't even worry about killed by aquiirtle.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You must not play Ivy that much at all.

Orly, go ask Teh_Spammerer. He's a pro, and he's played my Mario online quite a few times with the PT. Maybe you can play him too.