MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[MrEh]

Ha, I wonder why that is?

He's so frustrating to use. Even when you're winning, you're dying on the inside.

Bowser's usmash owns, it punishes air-dodges because it hits twice...at least I always get hit by it after air dodging =P.

Dsmash works the same way, except the Dsmash sucks.

 

[gantrain05]

He's so frustrating to use. Even when you're winning, you're dying on the inside.



Dsmash works the same way, except the Dsmash sucks.

dsmash for punishing rolls, it works pretty well.

 

[MrEh]

dsmash for punishing rolls, it works pretty well.

Yeah, except the hitbox is waaay smaller then it should be. Plus, you can DI out of it. ><

 

[gantrain05]

Yeah, except the hitbox is waaay smaller then it should be. Plus, you can DI out of it. ><

yeah, the hitbox is weird, it starts out really small and gradually gets bigger. good thing is, its harder to DI out of than pikas Dsmash lol.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Bowser's D-Smash hitbox is pretty small (is it disjointed AT ALL). It seems like Mario's feet can pretty much touch his shell and not get hurt, but...

 

[MrEh]

Bowser's D-Smash hitbox is pretty small (is it disjointed AT ALL). It seems like Mario's feet can pretty much touch his shell and not get hurt, but...

This is where it gets funny. The Dsmash isn't disjointed at all. Or it's so minorly disjointed that no one even notices it.


Poor Dsmash....

 

[gantrain05]

This is where it gets funny. The Dsmash isn't disjointed at all. Or it's so minorly disjointed that no one even notices it.


Poor Dsmash....

i actually think bowsers hurtbox extends out further than his hitbox does on the Dsmash lol. negative disjoint.

 

[MrEh]

i actually think bowsers hurtbox extends out further than his hitbox does on the Dsmash lol. negative disjoint.

Bowser fails so hard that even his hitboxes hate him. ><

 

[HeroMystic]

Thankfully, Bowser's grab range sucks. It's simply bad. Really bad.

Seems like to me the only people with good grab range is DeDeDe, Marth, Charizard, and Falco.

 

[MrEh]

Seems like to me the only people with good grab range is DeDeDe, Marth, Charizard, and Falco.

Wario's grab range is decent. Jigglypuff's grab range is absolutely massive.

 

[gantrain05]

don't forget bowsers awesome dashgrab, i mean, literally ZERO lag on that thing, same with his dash attack, also i think his Bair autocancels when he hits the ground, i mean bowser is just too good.

 

[MrEh]

don't forget bowsers awesome dashgrab, i mean, literally ZERO lag on that thing, same with his dash attack, also i think his Bair autocancels when he hits the ground, i mean bowser is just too good.

Bowser should be top tier.

Meta and Snake have no chance.

 

[Matt07]

Just curious the ratio is 40:60 in MK's favour (I heard you guys have advantage on FD), and what's the ratio vs Snake? And what's your worst match-up other then playing Chaingrab?

Chaingrab=DDD.

 

[gantrain05]

Just curious the ratio is 40:60 in MK's favour (I heard you guys have advantage on FD), and what's the ratio vs Snake? And what's your worst match-up other then playing Chaingrab?

Chaingrab=DDD.

vs snake? oh the matchup is probably 100:0 snake, really, he has GOOD projectiles, more power, more range, he's somehow also faster, a smaller target, recovery isn't that great, but probably still better than bowsers, don't get me started on how ******** snake is.

 

[MrEh]

vs snake? oh the matchup is probably 100:0 snake, really, he has GOOD projectiles, more power, more range, he's somehow also faster, a smaller target, recovery isn't that great, but probably still better than bowsers, don't get me started on how ******** snake is.

Snake is silly.

Just curious the ratio is 40:60 in MK's favour (I heard you guys have advantage on FD)

The Meta boards list it as 40-60, while the Bowser boards think it's 45-55. Bowser does very well against Meta on FD. The chaingrab ruins him.

and what's the ratio vs Snake? And what's your worst match-up other then playing Chaingrab?

Snake is 40-60. Not bad.

Really bad matchups are with things like the Ice Climbers. Maybe Samus...

 

[gantrain05]

The Meta boards list it as 40-60. The Bowser boards think it's 45-55. Bowser does very well against Meta on FD. The chaingrab ruins him.



Snake is 40-60. Not bad.

Really bad matchups are with things like the Ice Climbers. Maybe Samus...

i'd rather fight samus anyday lol, i just can't touch snake for some reason, usually my fox or peach takes care of that fight, my bowser massively ***** ness and lucas tho lol.

 

[MrEh]

ness and lucas tho lol.

Grab Release Bowser Bomb.

That's all that needs to be said.

 

[gantrain05]

Grab Release Bowser Bomb.

That's all that needs to be said.

hehe, its my favorite thing in the whole world, thats one thing bowsers got for him, bowser bomb is too good in brawl.

 

[Matt07]

G&W is pretty gay for Mario, imo lol =P.

Lol, Bowser's grab release is amazing. Nuff said.

 

[MrEh]

hehe, its my favorite thing in the whole world, thats one thing bowsers got for him, bowser bomb is too good in brawl.

True dat. Bowser Bomb is manly.


And if you guys want to know how bad Bowser is in this game, take a look at this chart.

Yup, he has no advantageous matchups yet. Or even a flat neutral. XD

 

[boss8]

why is rob there??? y is falco there??? and marth and wario wtf....

 

[Matt07]

Actually that's pretty good imo, you guys are pretty good against high/top tiers (from what I've seen so far.)

You can see our match-up chart here if you haven't checked yet .
(Chart is here)

You guys are fun to talk too, the most active guys here yet .

 

[boss8]

IMO DDD isnt that hard...just chaingrab to worry about...other then that avoid him/combo him.......

 

[gantrain05]

IMO DDD isnt that hard...just chaingrab to worry about...other then that avoid him/combo him.......

too bad bowser sucks hard at avoiding grabs lol.

 

[MrEh]

Actually that's pretty good imo, you guys are pretty good against high/top tiers (from what I've seen so far.)

That's the strange thing about Bowser. Almost all of his matchups are disadvantageous, yet he does well against high tiers for some reason.

You can see our match-up chart here if you haven't checked yet .
(Chart is here)

With matchups like those, Mario doesn't deserve to be low tier trash.

You guys are fun to talk too, the most active guys here yet .

That's because Bowser mains are probably the least bias people around. We know our character sucks, and we're not afraid to say it.

Plus, we have a sense of humor.

IMO DDD isnt that hard...just chaingrab to worry about...other then that avoid him/combo him.......

It's hard for Bowser. Bowser is too damn slow to avoid the grab.

too bad bowser sucks hard at avoiding grabs lol.

This is true, especially since Dedede has a grab range of 20,000 feet.

 

[HeroMystic]

That's actually not too bad. The fact that it's only 40:60 at worst for the top tiers + Marth is quite good, minus Chaingrab of course.

Best we have is 60:40 against ROB and Even with Falco. Some are fighting for neutral with Snake and 40:60 for G&W.

DDD and MK aren't budging though.

 

[gantrain05]

im not really a bowser main, more of a loyal player, he's always been a secondary of mine tho.

 

[boss8]

mario for top of mid tier??? or bottom of high???

 

[HeroMystic]

With matchups like those, Mario doesn't deserve to be low tier trash.

You notice how many freaken evens we have though? It feels so wrong.

 

[MrEh]

That's actually not too bad. The fact that it's only 40:60 at worst for the top tiers + Marth is quite good, minus Chaingrab of course.

Bowser is weird like that.

Best we have is 60:40 against ROB and Even with Falco. Some are fighting for neutral with Snake and 40:60 for G&W. DDD and MK aren't budging though.

At least you don't fail epically against DK and Diddy. Trust me on this, fighting a monkey sucks for Bowser.

mario for top of mid tier??? or bottom of high???

Top of Mid Tier at the very least. We all know Mario is awesome.

You notice how many freaken evens we have though?

It's better to be even then at a disadvantage. Bowser's at a disadvantage in like 90% of his matchups.

 

[mariofanpm12]

MrEh and the otehr Bowser mains are cool to have around and chat with.

 

[PKNintendo]

Grab Release Bowser Bomb.

That's all that needs to be said.

Doesn't that work on other characters though?

 

[hippiedude92]

Okay, as predicted, here's the wall of text!


Okay, Bowser is very underestimated in this game. He's way better then he was in Melee, but a lot of people don't seem to notice. Bowser is a beast in this game, in the most literal sense.

Bowser's ground game is excellent. His Ftilt outranges every non-projectile ground attack except for Mario's Fsmash. The Ftilt comes out quick, has a decent amounts of priority, and it will probably be used for spacing. Ftilts can be angled upwards to try to intercept Mario's aerials, and it does a decent job at that, since Mario lacks any sort of disjointed hitbox in those attacks. Bowser's Jab is also used for spacing and is one of his best moves. Bowser's Jab comes out quick, has nearly no cool down lag, and has good range and priority. (It actually outranges Pit's Fsmash and clanks with it.) Jabs will most likely be used when the Ftilt would be too slow to punish Mario, or if Mario's close to Bowser. Bowser's ground game simply outclasses Mario's in the end. The good news is that you can pull off some pretty cool Cape--->Fsmash stuff against Bowser's attacks if you're ballsy enough.

The Fortress should also be mentioned as well. Bowser's Fortress, as most of you know, can be used OoS and is simply an outrageous move. It has invincibility frames at startup, and a crapload of priority once the hitbox comes out on frame 6. The Fortress also does a decent amount of damage and will probably kill Mario at 120% fresh, so you should watch out for that. Mario is a bit more susceptible to an OoS Fortress compared to some other characters because most of his attacks lack disjointed hitboxes, meaning he's more easily hit by an OoS Fortress. An OoS Fortress can be avoided by properly spaced Bairs, which you should be using anyway. The thing you really need to keep in mind is that being overly aggressive in this matchup is a bad thing. Bowser simply ***** overly aggressive players with the Fortress. The good news is that Mario really isn't an overly aggressive character anyway. Mario has good keep away game, and you should be exploiting that to it's full potential. Your Fireballs are awesome; use them.

Bowser's grab game also needs to be explained. Thankfully, Bowser's grab range sucks. It's simply bad. Really bad. However, if Bowser lands a grab on you, Mario's in a very very bad situation. I think everyone knows by now, but Bowser has the most **** grab releases in the game. Bowser's grab releases on Mario are pretty basic, but Mario can still get hit by a lot of stuff. If you ground release out of Bowser's grab, he can simply grab you again, pummeling you for more damage. If you're near a ledge, Bowser can use his Dtilt out of a grab, and that's a potential killing move. And if Bowser just wants to smack Mario for some beefy damage, he can use his Klaw out of a ground release as well, which will do a pretty hefty 18%. It's never good to get a ground release, since Bowser can always just grab you again once you break out. Getting a jump release is a better option for Mario, but Bowser can still hit Mario out of a Jump release with an Fair, which can kill at the ledge, or a Klaw, which will still do a chuck of damage. So all in all, it's a bad situation either way, but at least you're free from Bowser's chaingrab if you jump out. Basically, just avoid the grab as much as possible. It *****, but it shouldn't be that hard for Mario to avoid it. Just play keep away with your Fireballs. It's annoying and it works.

Bowser's aerial game is in most respects, pretty unimpressive. However, it's still something you need to look out for. Bowser is a character that does much better when he's underneath his opponent, and that's why he does so well on Norfair and Battlefield. If you're in the air and Bowser's below you, try to get to the ground as fast as possible. Otherwise Bowser could jump up and try to Uair you. Bowser has one of the most powerful Uairs in the game, and if you're in the air, it'll probably kill Mario at 80%. It will also go through all of Mario's aerials, so make sure you avoid this, since dying at 80% sucks. Bowser's Fair and Bair come out quick, and can be used to clash hits with Mario when you're both in the air. The Fair is pretty basic, but the Bair is pretty deadly. It hits hard, and it's slightly disjointed, giving it a pretty hefty amount of priority. It will probably be used as an edgeguard, so watch out for that, considering it comes out quick.

Oh, and you need to beware of Bowser's Utilt. I always dedicate a paragraph to the Utilt because it's so awesome, and it's probably one of Bowser's best moves. The Utilt comes out very fast, it has lots of priority, and it has an extremely bogus hitbox. I always say the hitbox is bogus because it feels like it's glitched sometimes. The hitbox is so large that it beats out all of Meta's aerials. That's how weird it is. Mario is no exception, and the Utilt will cut through every aerial in his arsenal except for maybe a well spaced Cape. The Utilt is even deadlier on stages with platforms, since Bowser can fire off Utilts much easier when platforms are around. Oh, and the Utilt will kill Mario at about 110% with good DI, so you need to watch out. It's an excellent killing move, and it's very hard to see it coming.

Of course, Mario has some good advantages in this fight. His keep away game has been mentioned, but as you know, he can rack up damage pretty quick. Utilt combos and aerial juggling simply destroy Bowser, since he doesn't do well in air and he has a blindspot below him. The blindspot exists because Bowser's Nair and Dair are so crappy. Just get him into the air, get underneath him, and begin the ****.

Mario can also gimp very well in this game. However, it's a bit harder to gimp Bowser then most people think. Because Bowser is so heavy, he's very difficult to get off the stage. And if he does get off the stage, most Bowser players will probably DI upwards to the corners. Bowser actually moves very fast in the air for some reason, and if he gets blasted to the corners, he can usually make it back to the stage without even using his Fortress. If Bowser recovers low, then just FLUDD and Cape him. Free gimp.


I still think it's a 50-50, just because Bowser dominates on the ground, but Mario dominates in the air and offstage.

I knew it!! From lurking around Boozer boards, this guy would definitely make a wall of text but he has the bawls to do it like nearly 3am lmfao.

You forgot to mention a few things. If your throwing out a retreating Fair, since it autocancels if Mario is rushing in, Boozer can do anything from a dtilt/ftilt and can't be punished. You also forgot to mention the klaw hop and it's movement applaications. Mario will be always throwing fireballs all day, it doesn't really have much priority but, you can do walking jabs/ftilts/powershields but what about that Klaw hop movement? Mario eat's a 18% damage. And Mario will be relying on his OoS upb as well if Boozer is ever to go on the offensive. But KH > Shields

Another thing is that, you didn't mention Boozer's stall tactics on the edge. They'll be times where is Mario has been knocked off stage. Mario's medicore recovery sure is average but of course he has his anti-ledge tools. But from my experience they don't exactly work unless you know how to ultize Boozer's edge stall moves. Mario will be throwing out his low priority fireballs, Boozer has better stalling edge moves meaning he'll have tthe edge in holding those incvbility frames, so he'll be using his ledge jump upb and his downb repeatedly. Once Mario is in range, Boozer can do a straight ledge jump to do a Bair just in case hes in range to get back on the stage. If Mario is recovering low, he's obviously screwed lol.

I just wanted to throw out those few things that you didn't mention since I fight a Mario almost everyday as a Boozer but yeah it's all situation but meh =3

Bowser's ground game really beats out Mario's. He's got his F-Tilt, which has great range, and the aforementioned U-Tilt, which eats out all of Mario's Aerials. However, Mario can gimp him pretty easily, and once Bowser's in the air he's easy pickings(beware are U-air, though).

At best 55:45 Mario's favor
At worst 45:55 Bowser's favor

You forgot to mention Boozer's walking ftilt can cancel out fireballs. Boozer is on the ground game, ground range supreriority, while MArio has the comboing, gimping. But literally Mario's best kill move is his sweetspotted fsmash which is around 115% and Boozer's upair and utilt kills like 80%s

I'd settle for a neutral.



No one wants to use Bowser because they assume that he sucks.

Also, he's not very likable as a character. Look at Marth. Everyone likes him because he has a sword and it the hottest girl in the game. Everyone likes Captain Falcon because he's manly. Bowser is a oversized turtle, and that's not very likable. XD

And by the way, I wasn't kidding about Marth. She really is attractive.

I hope so. Being a Bowser main is a horrible curse.

This guy is a epix winner right here. You must hangout here in Mario boards XD. Possbilly instead of lurking around Boozer boards.. I'ma start posting there cause people like MrEh (probably only him) is a smart poster. And I play as Boozer cause he's a baller <3.

 

[gantrain05]

Doesn't that work on other characters though?

don't think so, only if they have slow reaction time, but ness and lucas's release animation is long enough that its a bowser bomb in the face.

 

[Liquid Gen]

That's why we rarely use Dsmash... ever.

Besides, fsmash is way cooler.

Edit: 50/50 or 45/55 does sound about right for this matchup.

Although Mario's UAir says otherwise...

 

[hippiedude92]

upair binds that lead to fair kills bring back eggz vs gimpyfish melee times :[

*goes to youtube and watchs lolz*

 

[MrEh]

Doesn't that work on other characters though?

Some characters, it's just easier to do on Ness and Lucas.

You also forgot to mention the klaw hop and it's movement applaications. Mario will be always throwing fireballs all day, it doesn't really have much priority but, you can do walking jabs/ftilts/powershields but what about that Klaw hop movement? Mario eat's a 18% damage. And Mario will be relying on his OoS upb as well if Boozer is ever to go on the offensive. But KH > Shields

Haha, Bowser's infinite jump. It's a good approach, but fireballs can screw it up. If you see Bowser coming at you with Klaws, do your Shoryuken. XD

You forgot to mention Boozer's walking ftilt can cancel out fireballs.

I think his Jab can do that too. Har har.

 

[hippiedude92]

I'm pretty sure only full hop fireballs mess with the KH approach no? it should get around SH fireballs :O!

 

[MrEh]

I'm pretty sure only full hop fireballs mess with the KH approach no? it should get around SH fireballs :O!

Fireballs in general are annoying if you land on them. ><

Mario should just use the Cape. It'll be hilarious...

 

[vadgama]

ice climbers have IC vs Mario to 7:3 their win. What The....!!! Their CG's hurt but not that bad