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MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

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J

Judge Judy

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KirinBlaze said:
Link please. D: I know alot about both characters since their my best and have already shared my knowledge of the match up with the Link boards. I seriously think the Link boards know more about my Mario better then the Mario boards do.
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Anything to get Boss to update >_>
 
Inferno3044

Inferno3044

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Just Pointing out a typo, you wrote pro twice for Mario vs. Sonic instead of pro and con. Also you didn't write Ike or Fox above their pro's and con's.

Also aside from that, I think it would be good if you put the overall matchups for each character.
 
J

Judge Judy

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Inferno3044 said:
Just Pointing out a typo, you wrote pro twice for Mario vs. Sonic instead of pro and con. Also you didn't write Ike or Fox above their pro's and con's.

Also aside from that, I think it would be good if you put the overall matchups for each character.
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Boss is really sloppy about updating things, I wouldn't expect any big changes anytime soon.
 
gantrain05

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im curious about mario vs luigi matchup, my friend mains mario, and luigi is one of my mains, and i can't recall a time that i've ever lost to mario w/ luigi, it just feels to me luigi has a few more options than mario does in that matchup.
 
Matador

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Luigi wins. That's not really in question. It's just how do you go about fighting him as Mario.
 
Inferno3044

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I've looked a tiny bit into this:

Pro:
+ Better range
+ Able to edgeguard/gimp better
+ Cape and FLUDD move him back more due to Luigi's low friction
+ He moves faster
+ Easier to pull off a meteor smash
+ Fireballs go downward in air and better for camping then Luigi's

Neutral:
+/- Air game is about even
+/- Not a big difference in grabs

Con:
- Better recovery
- Able to kill you easier
- Luigi's N-air is more godly than your N-air
- Uppercut can kill you at about 50%
- He is able to jump higher
- Most of his attacks are faster than Mario's
- Fireballs are faster than Mario's

I think Mario's cape outranges some of Luigi's moves if not most, but I'm not certain. I'm not sure which one has better ground game or which can combo better (I want to go with Luigi on combos). Also I'm pretty bad at rating overall matchups, but I don't think it will be more than 55:45 in either brother's advantage. My facts may be incorrect or not a big deal so feel free to correct me if im wrong and add any other piece of information.
 
HeroMystic

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Inferno3044 said:
I
- Most of his attacks are faster than Mario's
- Fireballs are faster than Mario's
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Mario actually has faster attacks in both the ground and the air. Mario also outranges Luigi by just a bit. Mario's fireballs actually come out faster as well, although the fireball itself is slower than Luigi's.

This is in Luigi's advantage, just not by much. 45-55 is what I'd go with. Mario has a lot of things going for him against Luigi, but the raw kill power and even combo potential just cannot be ignored.
 
F

FatJackieChan

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Can you guys put up %'s? I am thinking about playing as Mario, but I would like to see a percent on his match-up. I don't know how good Mario is at pro play (due to idiots not caring about the bottom tiers), but I find that Mario is very good at lower (still at basic to mid tournament) play. I have seen some really good Mario's, and have been beaten by them too. I like Mario a lot, but I also want him to help with my match-ups if possible.
 
Inferno3044

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HeroMystic said:
This is in Luigi's advantage, just not by much. 45-55 is what I'd go with. Mario has a lot of things going for him against Luigi, but the raw kill power and even combo potential just cannot be ignored.
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Although Luigi's raw power is better than Mario's, all ways for him to recover can be messed up by the cape or FLUDD. This can give some gimp kills if you can get him off stage and keep him off. I'm not going to say this is Mario's advantage, but I think there is some possibility of a 50-50. If not then 55-45 Luigi.

Aside from that, where did you get that nice signature? I might want one.
 
gantrain05

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Inferno3044 said:
Although Luigi's raw power is better than Mario's, all ways for him to recover can be messed up by the cape or FLUDD. This can give some gimp kills if you can get him off stage and keep him off. I'm not going to say this is Mario's advantage, but I think there is some possibility of a 50-50. If not then 55-45 Luigi.

Aside from that, where did you get that nice signature? I might want one.
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yeah, luigi can be gimped by cape and fludd, but mario can be just as easily gimped by luigi just because he doesn't have near as many recovery options as luigi does and its not hard to intercept him on his recovery, i've even been able to use luigi's down B from underneath mario and only hit with the first hit, it will shoot them back off the edge and it basically screws marios recovery.
 
Matador

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gantrain05 said:
yeah, luigi can be gimped by cape and fludd, but mario can be just as easily gimped by luigi just because he doesn't have near as many recovery options as luigi does and its not hard to intercept him on his recovery, i've even been able to use luigi's down B from underneath mario and only hit with the first hit, it will shoot them back off the edge and it basically screws marios recovery.
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Not true. Not only does Luigi have less options to gimp since most of his attacks send you vertically and his aerial movement speed is poor, but Mario has more than enough options to quell his sad attempts at edgeguarding. He may be able to sneak in a rising tornado gimp or ledgedrop Dair spike if he's lucky, but Mario has the tools to deal with everything Luigi can dish out offstage, especially since Luigi doesn't have many (if any) disjointed aerials. It's a possibility, but not one that'll make the matchup, and he certainly can't gimp Mario to the degree that Mario can gimp him, that's ludicrous.

Even Luigi's ability to follow far offstage is less effective than you make it out to be because he's slow aerially and can be hit out of everything, most likely by Mario's Fair, Fireballs, cape, or upB. Luigi has MORE recovery options, but that doesn't make them better than or more effective that Mario's few.

Luigi's power is onstage, where he doesn't have a target on his head 90% of the time.
 
J

Judge Judy

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Some things to keep in mind when fighting Luigi is that he has trouble shield grabbing your atks and your Nair comes out as fast as his.
 
gantrain05

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honestly i hardly ever go for shield grabs with luigi. 90% of the time they don't work anyway unless my opponent for some reason is trying to approach with an arial and land behind me, which doesn't work because i'll just slide back far enough to actually grab him.
 
A2ZOMG

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Okay Mario vs Luigi.

I'm CONVINCED this matchup is very close to even offline (I dunno, give or take 5% to either one, it's super close). On wifi, it's in Luigi's favor.

This is the reason I need to get up replays faster, cause I have a few really good ones of me vs InsomniaK IN PERSON! Yeah, I'll get those on youtube....someday.

The reason why it's in Luigi's favor online. His Jab. I'm serious. His Jab is extremely gay to deal with on wifi lag. It has more range than Mario's and comes out the same speed. I don't think you can shieldgrab it easily either cause he slides away a tiny bit if he hits your shield. His N-air is also more annoying on wifi, but seriously, on wifi, it's all about that stupid jab LOL.

Both Mario and Luigi juggle each other pretty hard. Luigi's N-air is very easy to beat out if you know how to space U-airs and Up-tilts and Up-smashes (save Up-smash for the KO tho). The same goes for your N-air vs Luigi's. Ultimately because of how much damage both players can do to each other when one gets the other above him, there really isn't much issue in scoring the KO when needed for either Mario or Luigi. Admittedly Luigi KOs earlier on many attacks, but Mario has a few nice tricks to even the score a bit.

One big misconception is that Luigi generally has more range than Mario. He only does on certain attacks. The one that matters the most is his Jab, which he does various tricks with, but it's not overwhelmingly serious when well spaced aerials and Smashes get around it nicely. B-air is slightly longer due to his legs being longer, but it has more ending lag. U-air to a less noticeable extent has more range IIRC. F-air has more range than Mario's. Mario's Smashes however have more range than Luigi's. It's especially important to note that Mario's F-smash has huge leanback on the charge stance, outranges all of Luigi's attacks and has a nice disjointed hitbox that can be angled. Mario's Fireball also has more range and is faster than Luigi's.

If you're curious about frame data concerning the Mario Bros, read the first two entries here.

Mario has advantage in edgeguarding Luigi, I think that's agreed for the most part. Luigi for the most part is hindered offstage by the fact his long air-time offstage makes him predictable, and thus more easily disrupted by FLUDD and Cape and other stuff. His Up-B is also much more telegraphed too. You KNOW where Luigi is going to Up-B. This is easily intercepted by a N-air. If for whatever reason he doesn't sweetspot the ledge, you can just cape him away.

This is counterbalanced by the fact that Mario's recovery is rather predictable too...Mario's better Up-B for recovery helps. Mario also has more solid options at the ledge thanks to Cape allowing him to edgestall and ledgehop B-air and other neat stuff. However if you get sent offstage, make sure you still know how to DI because Luigi can linger around offstage and if he predicts an air dodge, you do get B-aired.

Luigi has more raw KO power, but you can easily mindgame him around with the leanback on Mario's F-smash, which has more range than any of his attacks, and it isn't a slouch at all in terms of knockback and damage. A Luigi that gets predictable with N-air approaches can be Up-smashed out of shield easily. On the other hand, you have to watch out for more attacks which can potentially KO you when you're playing against Luigi. Most of his attacks KO either slightly or significantly earlier than Mario's. His F-smash is scary in terms of power, but you can bait that out for a free F-smash of your own sometimes. His Up-smash is weird. Sometimes it KOs earlier than Mario's due to having a bit more knockback, sometimes later due to the weird trajectory. Luigi's D-smash is rarely ever a KO move in my experience (well, Mario's isn't either, but sends people at a better angle for potential KOs), but it does a lot of damage and if you're not careful combos into itself at low percents. Jab -> D-tilt -> Up-B is probably the scariest of Luigi's KO options. That undeniably owns. Other stupid thing to watch out for, Luigi's B-throw KOs 20% earlier...yeah. LAME.

Another thing I noticed about Luigi that has never been mentioned as far as I know. It's not really huge in this matchup, but Luigi's D-throw has a MUCH smaller knockback growth rate than Mario's. Making it one of the only attacks Luigi has that KOs at higher percents than Mario's. WOW. It means that when he D-throws, people stay closer at higher percents. For the most part, it helps him significantly in getting regrabs if he predicts an air dodge.

All in all this matchup is ruled by a lot of **** juggling from what I've seen. They both do it to each other so well. I wonder if they picked that up from the M&L series. There are really a lot of good options available for both characters. All in all one of the more fun matchups in the game.
 
Inferno3044

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I go with 50:50, possibly one of the most even matches in the game (wifi not included). Each one can do quite a bit to the other brother and it makes it very difficult, if not impossible to judge who is going to win by character alone. This is probably the closest to a ditto match you will get, so really it ends up being the better player wins.
 
hippiedude92

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A2ZOMG said:
Okay Mario vs Luigi.

I'm CONVINCED this matchup is very close to even offline (I dunno, give or take 5% to either one, it's super close). On wifi, it's in Luigi's favor.

This is the reason I need to get up replays faster, cause I have a few really good ones of me vs InsomniaK IN PERSON! Yeah, I'll get those on youtube....someday.

The reason why it's in Luigi's favor online. His Jab. I'm serious. His Jab is extremely gay to deal with on wifi lag. It has more range than Mario's and comes out the same speed. I don't think you can shieldgrab it easily either cause he slides away a tiny bit if he hits your shield. His N-air is also more annoying on wifi, but seriously, on wifi, it's all about that stupid jab LOL.

I LIVE OFF THE MARIO BROS MATCHUP! I ****ING PLAY BOTH MARIO BROTHERS, PLAY EVERY FCKING MARIO / LUIGI USER OUT THERE AND **** THEM BECAUSE I PLAY MARIO AND LUIGI AT A VERY HIGHLY DAILY BASIS <33333 THIS MATCHUP

Answers in bold cuz for some reason, my copy and paste button is broken. Anyways, both jabs clank when they're next to each other. And why you gotta mention everything wifi? :/ His jab is def part of the matchup considering the fact, it's basically playing with a persons mind (yes i know mindgames aren't part of the matchup but just throwing it out there), but since anyone will expect a jab upb, luigi lives off by observing mario;s reaction from it, meaning free jab cancel grabs etc etc. His Nair has far sexier priority.

Both Mario and Luigi juggle each other pretty hard. Luigi's N-air is very easy to beat out if you know how to space U-airs and Up-tilts and Up-smashes (save Up-smash for the KO tho). The same goes for your N-air vs Luigi's. Ultimately because of how much damage both players can do to each other when one gets the other above him, there really isn't much issue in scoring the KO when needed for either Mario or Luigi. Admittedly Luigi KOs earlier on many attacks, but Mario has a few nice tricks to even the score a bit.

Actually, Mario has to be more careful when Utilting, because at depending at what point of angle and air luigi is at, he can escape with a sneaky Nair which is why when im juggling luigi, i always put him around 15% then hold up the shield to a OOS upb. Also, Marios reverse upsmash will beat out or trade off with luigis nair. As well as vice versa. But it does seem pretty equal considering, luigi is a juggle trap sexy beast and somewhat mario is too, and marios aerial speed makes juggling luigi fun. Also, since both bros are pretty much identical, alot of trades off will happen, feeling like a ditto match, if someone approachs they'll be dead because they'll eat a pivot grab. Both bros will live off this pivot grab like hell. But i think luigis pivot grab is slightly better range since he seems to slide

One big misconception is that Luigi generally has more range than Mario. He only does on certain attacks. The one that matters the most is his Jab, which he does various tricks with, but it's not overwhelmingly serious when well spaced aerials and Smashes get around it nicely. B-air is slightly longer due to his legs being longer, but it has more ending lag. U-air to a less noticeable extent has more range IIRC. F-air has more range than Mario's. Mario's Smashes however have more range than Luigi's. It's especially important to note that Mario's F-smash has huge leanback on the charge stance, outranges all of Luigi's attacks and has a nice disjointed hitbox that can be angled. Mario's Fireball also has more range and is faster than Luigi's.

Haha. Most people will always believe this. IIRC luigis ftilt SLIGHTLY beats out marios ftilt. Oh and luigi has a useful dtilt instead of marios gay dtilt lololol. But yes the biggest difference if anyone finds, is that a stutter steped fsmash will murder luigi alive if kept fresh.

If you're curious about frame data concerning the Mario Bros, read the first two entries here.

Mario has advantage in edgeguarding Luigi, I think that's agreed for the most part. Luigi for the most part is hindered offstage by the fact his long air-time offstage makes him predictable, and thus more easily disrupted by FLUDD and Cape and other stuff. His Up-B is also much more telegraphed too. You KNOW where Luigi is going to Up-B. This is easily intercepted by a N-air. If for whatever reason he doesn't sweetspot the ledge, you can just cape him away.

This is counterbalanced by the fact that Mario's recovery is rather predictable too...Mario's better Up-B for recovery helps. Mario also has more solid options at the ledge thanks to Cape allowing him to edgestall and ledgehop B-air and other neat stuff. However if you get sent offstage, make sure you still know how to DI because Luigi can linger around offstage and if he predicts an air dodge, you do get B-aired.

pretty much agreed what u said here

Luigi has more raw KO power, but you can easily mindgame him around with the leanback on Mario's F-smash, which has more range than any of his attacks, and it isn't a slouch at all in terms of knockback and damage. A Luigi that gets predictable with N-air approaches can be Up-smashed out of shield easily. On the other hand, you have to watch out for more attacks which can potentially KO you when you're playing against Luigi. Most of his attacks KO either slightly or significantly earlier than Mario's. His F-smash is scary in terms of power, but you can bait that out for a free F-smash of your own sometimes. His Up-smash is weird. Sometimes it KOs earlier than Mario's due to having a bit more knockback, sometimes later due to the weird trajectory. Luigi's D-smash is rarely ever a KO move in my experience (well, Mario's isn't either, but sends people at a better angle for potential KOs), but it does a lot of damage and if you're not careful combos into itself at low percents. Jab -> D-tilt -> Up-B is probably the scariest of Luigi's KO options. That undeniably owns. Other stupid thing to watch out for, Luigi's B-throw KOs 20% earlier...yeah. LAME.

The best thing mario has is a Fsmash. Which must be kept fresh at all costs. Possibly, depending what part etc, his dsmash can kill and upsmash can kill if u didnt use it as a damage racker which i do. Most times i kill luigi by fsmashs or gimping him to hell espically with fair spikes. Also most GOOD luigis SHOULDN'T be living off nair. That was so outdated ago. SH buffered airdodges/ SH airdodges / SH buffered into any ground move generally dsmash since it covers the most ground will be a ****. It will be hard for mario to read luigi as long he mixs it up with approachs but you can always do oos upb if ur inpatient ^.^
Also dsmash can kill since most ppl will DI the wrong way because of its weird trajectory since it keeps changing all the time. But obviously luigi will live off from upb considering mario will be killed pretty early, and even if luigi does miss it which is usually at a low %, at most times, mario will only in there in time for a start up combo



Another thing I noticed about Luigi that has never been mentioned as far as I know. It's not really huge in this matchup, but Luigi's D-throw has a MUCH smaller knockback growth rate than Mario's. Making it one of the only attacks Luigi has that KOs at higher percents than Mario's. WOW. It means that when he D-throws, people stay closer at higher percents. For the most part, it helps him significantly in getting regrabs if he predicts an air dodge.

All in all this matchup is ruled by a lot of **** juggling from what I've seen. They both do it to each other so well. I wonder if they picked that up from the M&L series. There are really a lot of good options available for both characters. All in all one of the more fun matchups in the game.
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Rawr i love this matchup. Both bros will be clanking, and be mimic-ing each other ALOT. Both can juggle trap like beasts, both will be mindgaming each other to who knows the ends of earth. Mario can make luigi look like dirty **** offstage with variety of gimp options while luigi can beasts off and play with his mind with his jab tricks and anti-land options he has. I LOVE THIS MATCHUP SO MUCH <3

i wanna MM boss in mario bros match plz
 
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