MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[Ray/Boshi]

Using the fireballs often for all approaches really helps. Edge wise Mario can't compete unless Samus messes up on something, or doesnt upB or tether grab the edge. Samus' recovery is awesome.

 

[Matador]

We can screw stuff up...it just never really stops Samus from recovering. Never hurts to try tho.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Get in additional damage if anything. But you never know, might suceed in gimping Samus. Or, you may even get gimped yourself. Doesnt hurt to try though. ;P

 

[BoTastic!]

Samus is way too hard to gimp.

 

[Takeshi245]

Samus is way too hard to gimp.

That's a fact, guys. Let's wait for a Samus main that's a good debater before we close the Mario match-up discussion. And man, I haven't posted for a while.

 

[Matt07]

Bumping the thread.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Samus can do some serious damage very quickly though. One of the things I like about her.

 

[boss8]

ok ummm

anyone wanna write pros and cons.........

 

[Matt07]

ok ummm

anyone wanna write pros and cons.........

Sure, from what's been posting in this thread so far;

Samus

Pros:
Samus isn't too difficult to gimp and her KO power is lower than yours.
Samus is easy to combo
You can reflect her projectiles
Fireball helps with her z-air approaches

Cons:
Approaching Samus is just a pain, between the missles, the charge shot, and that godly Zair.
Samus can do some serious damage very quickly though
She can gimp you just as easily

Overall match-up. 50-50.

Sonic

Edit: *ShadowLink84, posted the pro's and cons, thanks the list wouldn't have been possible without your input. Also special thanks too all the other Sonic mains for their contributions. I took some information out of their Match up thread as well (thread link; http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161598) I remember their being the Sonic export match-up discussion thread on our board, but I can't find.

Pros:
Mario has a good amount going for him though. FLUUD can ease the pressure.
Fireballs can help pressuring though overuse may lead to getting b-aired from behind as he spinshots.
Faster attack speed overall.
Faster Dsmash and Usmash, with the Usmash being more powerful.
Stronger ground game.

Pros:
Has a better aerial game.
Breaks through fireballs easily.
Can approach Mario easily.
Has a really nasty 32% combo up to higher percents.
Said nasty combo can do 42% when done correctly even if proper DI is done.
Has overall better grabs (he can follow from an Fthrow, Dthrow and Uthrow)
Can chase you to the ends of the earth.
Recovery that makes it hard to get a gimp K.O/kill him.

The overall match-up was 55:45 Mario's favour.

 

[boss8]

good stuff matt <3 (no homo)

who do you guys want to move onto....

 

[BoTastic!]

Guys samus is not easy to gimp

 

[vato_break]

fludd pushs samus really good
..also i think we should do kirby or jiggz next....

 

[Matt07]

I posted this on the Kirby boards, hopefully we can get some discussion going .

Pros:
-We can cape their Up-B, although he is still rather hard to 'gimp K.O.'
-Fireballs can help with approach.
-Sorta light, maybe can K.O at low 100%'s?

Cons:
-Kirby's D-air owns Mario when he's recovering. (Owns me anyways )
-He can copy your Fireball ability. (I think his bounce less, and travel less distance and do less damage?)
-He can rack up damage fairly quickly
-I think most of aerials have more priority?
-He can K.O you at like 90%

 

[BoTastic!]

Vato face Jo P's samus and try to gimp him

 

[Matt07]

Oops, I forget, to take that off the list, sorry Bo X7.
Samus is incredibly hard to 'gimp K.O.' I find. Her z-air has pretty good length, and her up B, has really good priority.

Edit: About Kirby I think the match-up is like 40:60 in Kirby's favour, but I really dunno.

 

[MK26]

Well...over on the Kirby boards we have it as 55-45 in favour of Mario. Kirby board rankings are outdated and subject to change; in fact, we're reviewing all the matchups this week, so this is just about the best time to discuss Kirby.

On to the matchup: I really don't have much experience, but I'd like to point out that Kirby absolutely cannot recover low in this matchup, as Mario's cape destroys Final Cutter. Also, Kirby can copy Mario's fireball and has a pretty much assured SH fireball --> aerial hammer combo if he does it right. More coming later.

P.S - Matt07, did you first go to the old (stickied) matchup rankings discussion, find the link to the new discussion, and post there? Or did you see the new discussion first?

 

[Matt07]

Well, I saw the old thread, then I saw your's and it said something similair too 'Old Thread Creator has not updated in a while' so I went to your's instead.

 

[hippiedude92]

It's argueably a 50-50 or possibly 55-45 in kirby's favor imo. With serious kirbys i had to be serious too and its pretty hella annoying some too. ill post later

 

[Matador]

I say 45:55 Kirby's favor.

Okay comboing and relatively low % kills. Downside is that he combos better than us from grabs and nabs kills just as easily.

Gimping's difficult if they know it's coming, but simple if you know how to react. They generally gimp us just as well with that God-forsaken dair spike and neutral B under the stage.

Approaching has always been pretty simple for me, however as long as I'm ready for grabs. I don't know Kirby's approach options, so I can't really say if his are better or worse for this matchup. I kinda wanna tip that in our direction because we have a more reliable projectile.

I dunno the specifics on priority/range either, but I think our Bair, Dair, and Nair are at least even with his arsenal. Fludd can often mess him up as well because he's a generally aerial heavy character, so it messes up spacing.

The victor usually comes down to whoever the better player is.

 

[MK26]

I say 45:55 Kirby's favor.

Okay comboing and relatively low % kills. Downside is that he combos better than us from grabs and nabs kills just as easily..

True. Im pretty sure Gonzo combo (F-throw, u-air, reverse u-tilt, b-air) will work on Mario for ~40% from 0. Mario u-tilt combos hurt.

Gimping's difficult if they know it's coming, but simple if you know how to react. They generally gimp us just as well with that God-forsaken dair spike and neutral B under the stage..

Also true. Inhale --> under-stage spit --> b-air stage spike is too good

Approaching has always been pretty simple for me, however as long as I'm ready for grabs. I don't know Kirby's approach options, so I can't really say if his are better or worse for this matchup. I kinda wanna tip that in our direction because we have a more reliable projectile..

Approach options...uhh:

B-air (SH single or FH double)
F-air (close range, safe on block if Kirby aerial controls backward)
Running shield grab
Empty SH --> D-tilt/grab
D-air --> just about anything
SH fireball

Those are the ones you're gonna see

I dunno the specifics on priority/range either, but I think our Bair, Dair, and Nair are at least even with his arsenal. Fludd can often mess him up as well because he's a generally aerial heavy character, so it messes up spacing. .

Again...pretty true. Kirby's B-air is his go-to move, and can almost outrange Marth's F-air...also, Kirby's feet are disjointed for several attacks, most notably u-tilt...

Quote from Toasty, ROB main:

"Re: Kirby

Priority out the ***, man--->HE UTILTED MY NAIR. LIKE. THE ****ING FLAMES."

The victor usually comes down to whoever the better player is.

That's what a neutral matchup is, isn't it?

 

[PKNintendo]

Stop with the ................... in the topic title.

 

[PKNintendo]

No kidding, lulz. How bout someone random...like Ness?

Do Ness next!

And BoX7, I cannot lie. Your sig burns my eyes. Mario is... lame. Rob is okay, and Peach is just nasty. Those a weirdest breast's I've ever seen in my life.

Don't take it personally, (if you drew it)

DOUBLE POST!

 

[hippiedude92]

Kirby is pretty easy to read with her or his approachs as well as your approachs. GEtting grab'd combod from 0% is effin annoying. His fsmash can be angled and "i think" is stronger than yours. His gimping is a beast tard.

 

[BoTastic!]

PKnintendo i'm not in the mood, don't start with me.

Anyway, Im going with 50:50 or 45:55 kirby on the match up.

Pros

+Gimping Kirby isn't too hard. Force him to use Up B and cape it.
+Mario's aerials are faster than kirby's.
+Kirby is very light so killing him isn't hard either.
+Fairly easy to juggle.
+Kirby's approaches aren't too good

Cons
-Kirby has slightly more range than you
-More priority
-He's stronger than you and kills you with Fsmash at low %
-Has a good defensive game.
-Gimps you easily with Dair.
-Utilt has deceving range behind him, has decent priority, and can juggle you very well

 

[Matador]

Stop with the ................... in the topic title.

It IS his topic. He can have as many ellipses as he wants.

Do Ness next!

And BoX7, I cannot lie. Your sig burns my eyes. Mario is... lame. Rob is okay, and Peach is just nasty. Those a weirdest breast's I've ever seen in my life.

Don't take it personally, (if you drew it)

DOUBLE POST!

We're already doing Kirby. We'll get around to Ness. Until then, don't come to the Mario boards posting stuff like....like this. You're starting to become a little Inui.

 

[PKNintendo]

PKnintendo i'm not in the mood, don't start with me. Im entitled to my own opinion. You were partially correct. But wrong on one thing, Kirby's recovery isnt easy to gimp. Matador, I expect to see you at the Ness boards.

 

[Matador]

Im entitled to my own opinion.

Don't even take that defense, it's juvenile and stupid. You say things to piss people off, and you know it.

You were partially correct. But wrong on one thing, Kirby's recovery isnt easy to gimp.

Not really for Mario since cape outranges alot of Kirby's aerials and turns around his upB pretty easily. He's also light, so Fludd can help keep him off. He's not easy, but not hard either.

Matador, I expect to see you at the Ness boards.

Don't worry, I'll be there. I think it's about time we finished Mario vs Ness discussion.

 

[Asdioh]

I've always considered Mario to be at best 50-50, or at worst 40-60 Kirby's favor...I was surprised when the Kirby thread listed him as an advantage.

He lacks the things that Kirby players fear..hard-to-avoid projectiles (fireballs are pretty good for pressuring, but they're easy to block, dodge, or even cancel with Kirby's feet. Plus, Kirby can get your power and use it just as well or better than you, thanks to five jumps)

Another thing Kirby players fear: a sword for crazy disjointed hitboxes, or a seriously threatening offstage game. True, you will get an inexperienced Kirby player with cape, but the smarter ones shouldn't fall victim to that too often.

Mario has what Kirby players like though: He's easy to combo. Mario is one of my ideal punching bags, and he's not hard to ko, plus his recovery is predictable.

With that said, I would put it 55-45 or 60-40 Kirby, but sadly, I don't have much experience with really good Mario players

I'd be happy to take any of you on wifi, like I did with the Sonic boards. I learned a lot from that ^_^

 

[Matador]

I'd go at it now. Sadly my Brawl stopped reading Ike and Kirby about 3 or 4 weeks ago.

 

[Judge Judy]

IDK, this match-up is really close. Kirby has priority, can juggle well, and his smashes kill decently while his hammer kills early. Kirby has about the same average range as Mario but Kirby's atks are more disjointed and generally has better priority. Kirby juggles pretty much as well as Mario does. Kirby gimps Mario better than Mario gimps Kirby. Kirby is higly suseptable to FIHL. Kirby is farily easy to juggle. Kirby's inhale can make him tricky to approach. IDK, this match-up is about even but it feels like Kirby has a slight edge.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Kirby can gimp Mario fairly easy if he agressively goes for it. If a Dair connect Mario's pretty much screwed. Or he could run up using his multiple jumps with a Bair or Fair.

We can cape his upb. Or really push him back with fludd. But I see Kirby having the edge far as Gimping.

Combat wise it's pretty much even. But Kirby has a few more approach options is all. But they are somewhat similar and obvious, Bair, Fair, shield poke with a SH Dair. And can grab throw to tilts, Uairs and stuff far as combo's in early %. If he copy's you're fireball abiltiy, it can benefit him tremendously. Most Kirby player's save the Fsmash strictly for KOes or on edge of stage hits.. And use tilts often when close in.


I could'nt really put a ratio on it at this time. It seems like it's in Kirby's favor, but not by much. I also see a good Kirby gimping Mario more often then hin gimping Kirby. Just keep shooting them fireballs as you're returning. And keep that Cape handy.

 

[A2ZOMG]

One of Mario's better matchups vs upper tier characters for sure. It's definitely close and could go either way.

Personally me, I find Kirby an extremely predictable character by nature since he's one of the worst characters at approach options. His priority takes some time to adjust to, and he does have great kill moves and good edgeguarding on Mario, but on stage I find that Mario has more options to control what goes on. Well-aimed Fireballs can be a b*tch for Kirby and the way to get around his B-air brickwall is pretty simple by powershielding the hit and then grabbing him as he lands. If he doesn't space it well enough, it can also be Up-Bed.

Kirby takes a lot of effort and patience to play against for sure, but Mario definitely has a good chance at winning.

 

[Asdioh]

I'd go at it now. Sadly my Brawl stopped reading Ike and Kirby about 3 or 4 weeks ago.

LOL

How does this stuff happen? I think a friend of mine a while back had problems reading certain stages, like Delfino...

Sorry :[

 

[PKNintendo]

I'd go at it now. Sadly my Brawl stopped reading Ike and Kirby about 3 or 4 weeks ago.

???

What do you mean.
game freezes when picking them?

 

[BoTastic!]

I'll take your kirby on wifi. I played a lot of good kirbys, so i have a bit of experience with the match up.

on a side note. Avoid being grabbed by kirby in the beggining of the match. He can deal at least 34% free damage with his grab combos.

 

[boss8]

I'll take your kirby on wifi. I played a lot of good kirbys, so i have a bit of experience with the match up.

on a side note. Avoid being grabbed by kirby in the beggining of the match. He can deal at least 34% free damage with his grab combos.

thats why you UP-B out of it.........

 

[Asdioh]

I'll take your kirby on wifi. I played a lot of good kirbys, so i have a bit of experience with the match up.

on a side note. Avoid being grabbed by kirby in the beggining of the match. He can deal at least 34% free damage with his grab combos.

Aren't you on my friends list already

I'm pretty sure you're the guy who was playing with a friend that I joined...I was practicing Sonic (I'm horrible with him) and you wouldn't accept my friend request, but once I switched to Kirby you friend requested me =D

 

[hippiedude92]

thats why you UP-B out of it.........

to add to that, iirc, also di-ing away with Nair breaks out of it x]

 

[Kanzaki]

Kirby vs. Mario is pretty even in my opinion..

 

[PKNintendo]

Online has 0 credibility dude. Just play a Kirby live.