MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[boss8]

promoted MATT07 is amazing <3

ummm you guys dont mind chatting pikachu???

 

[Matt07]

Haha thanks boss8, just helping out the Mario community .

Umm hmm against Pikachu

Pros:
+You can cape his annoying Thunder
+You can cape his Up B but its really hard (well at least for me)

Cons:
-His downsmash has insane priority and racks up damage really well

Umm yea that's all I could really think of.

 

[Famous]

Lol, I was thinking about the same character...creepy.

Haven't really came across good pika players...So my input might be a tad vague.

Pro's
err...Pika's a lightweight and dies around 80 from a FSmash
Fludd gimps UpB
Mario has somewhat more priority on ground than in the air VS Pika

Con's
Pika has more Air Priority than Mario
B spam tends to piss Mario's off
DSmash spam is Pika best friend.

Like I said, I haven't really faced a decent Pika before. Most I've seen a Pika do is spam the DSmash and use the UpB Jump cancel thingy into Nairs, Bairs and etc..

The work around the DSmash is to smash DI upward and you'll fall out of it. You can always stay away from Pika and Fireball spam him.. This is a good way for making the player come to you, which is good since Mario ***** Pika on the ground.

Tidbits
Pika's Down B can be caped
Utilt can knock Pika right out the Foward B
Take about 30 seconds to analyze the Pika player and you'll start to notice his attack pattern(predictable)

EDIT: Thanks Matt07 for the list

 

[Matador]

Read the last page of this thread

Bobson also uses Pika and knows his options vs Mario.

 

[Ussi]

ok, first off, Most pikachu's try to avoid using down smash cause its hard to follow it up. Smarter Pikachu's using his tilts and aerials to combo you and tjolt to set things up. down smash is just either to stop your aerial approach or attack from behind. caping thunder is just gonna protect you, most pikachus will jump away from their own thunder. A pikachu that spams his smashes and tjolt and thunder is not a good pikachu, and is way too predictable. No good pikachu plays like that, they should really be relying on their high priority aerials and combos.

Pikachu is rarely gonna skull bash to recover cause if you cape it he knows he's dead.

Since Mario lacks range, Pikachu has he aerial advantage by a long shot. Pikachu's down smash will stop anything but fireball and fsmash. Pika's dtilt will outrange your ground moves. QAC lets Pikachu hit and run easy.

I never got to fight a good Mario with Pikachu. I fought one offline at a tourney but i utter dominated him >_>

I'm not gonna say any numbers cause I want to fight a Mario with skill first with Pikachu before i say anything.

 

[Kanzaki]

I say Pikachu and Mario is about even. Fireballs can stop QAC, but thunderjolt is as spammable is fireballs.

 

[Blackbelt]

The only thing I know about this matchup is that I'd honestly rather use Lucas against the stupid yellow rat, and that's a 50-50 matchup.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pikachu is not a terrible matchup by any means. I think it's probably in Pikachu's favor, but not by much. All in all, I think the main the reason why Mario can hold his own against Pikachu is because he doesn't get ***** by QAC or Thunder Jolt or Thunder spam.

Pikachu has a spammable projectile, but the ending lag and startup of his projectile fire animation is significant, so caping back his projectile is very effective on stage. I'm pretty sure you can even capestall and reflect the jolts back.

Pikachu rarely will use Thunder on you unless you prove to be bad at caping it. OR if he's under a platform and you are in the air, in which case it's safe to use.

QAC is annoying, but can be stopped by projectile spam, whether it's your spam, or caping back his spam.

Your B-air either outprioritizes his aerials or trades hits with them. I'm pretty sure it trades hits with his F-air. It has more range than any of his aerials though, so that's worth knowing.

If Pikachu B-airs, F-airs, or D-smashes you, you can easily quarter stick SDI out of them due to the insane hitlag they have. You probably can't punish the D-smash, as it will usually cause you to fall to the ground, but the B-air and F-air can viably be punished with a well-placed aerial. His aerials in general have bad landing lag keep in mind.

F-smash outranges you by a lot, but is easy to block. U-smash is probably his best Smash, has good range so can compete with your air game if he spaces it well, and can kill if fresh. Otherwise he doesn't really have much in terms of kill moves. His aerials rarely ever kill, his tilts are just pokes, yeah.

Oh yeah, and his grab range no longer sucks. Which kinda sucks for you considering how he has some pretty good throw setups (I don't think he can CG Mario, or he can't CG him much, but either way his throws are good setups).

 

[BoTastic!]

Pikachu is pretty tough. Light as hell though. Killed him at 80% before with a fresh Fsmash. Nair helps him out in breaking out of Uair juggles. He has more ground range than you. Bair outranges is aerials.

 

[cHooKay]

In general this is definitely a 50-50 match up, pika is tough, especially those who mastered his tilts and lightning attribute attacks, but easy at the same time. Reason being is that for the fact that pika isn't really hard to KO, most of pika's spammable moves can be caped/FLUDD'd easily, and mario out ranges pika generally attacking wise, if it wasn't for pika's thunder attribute attacks, mario would have a serious priority overhaul over pika. Now that i think about it, make that 55-45 in mario's favor. Keeping your distance and wisely looking for an opportunity to rush pika was my main strategy..

i'm not sure about you guys, but i found it slightly easy to smash DI out of pika's dsmash? -_-
i dunno, i haven't played a tough pika in a while since i moved, someone might wanna test that one out...

 

[Judge Judy]

Dsmash can be DIed out of, it's still an annoying move though because it's just so disjointed.

 

[SkylerOcon]

In my expirience, Pikachu is an easy match-up. Thunderbolts are easily caped, as is the thunder. Quick attack is easily edgehogged, and fludded (it can also be caped easily with practice). Skullbash is ***** if you use the cape.

However, Pikachu has more priority with his attacks. A good DI is vital in this match-up because of Pika's Dsmash. Pikachu's lightweight means easy KOs, but harder to rack damage up on.

All-in-all, 60-40, Mario's favor.

 

[BoTastic!]

Not in Mario's favor. In going with even or very slightly in Pika's favor. Also, Boss, you really need to update the first post of past match up discussions. We're like the only board which doesn't have a updated match up thread.

 

[Judge Judy]

It's really hard to say, it could go either way.

 

[A2ZOMG]

i'm not sure about you guys, but i found it slightly easy to smash DI out of pika's dsmash? -_-

Yes, you can easily Smash DI out of Pikachu's D-smash. I'm not even a very technical player like Boss, but I can do that 99.9% of the time by simply rapidly rotating the control stick from northwest to northeast and back. Tapping Up is less effective, but works. If all else fails, DI down to eliminate his follow up options.

 

[hippiedude92]

this is moar of a 50-50 matchup, mostly wait and punish is best way to beat pika. i think he has more ground game than you. they'll tend to QAC to mindgame you and spacing and stuffs. you can di out of dsmash so it isnt that bad. you can cape/fludd his skull bash.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Not in Mario's favor. In going with even or very slightly in Pika's favor. Also, Boss, you really need to update the first post of past match up discussions. We're like the only board which doesn't have a updated match up thread.

The only real disadvantage Mario has is that Pikachu has more priority. Other than that, Mario wins.

Why do you say that Pika beats Mario? I'm curious.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

mmm, pika has more speed (i know mario is not slow, but certainly not as fast as pikachu), both proyectiles are spammable, like mario, pika can combo mainly with utilt and uair; but pikachu has a better and more versatile recovery, and both can edgeguard each other pretty well( mario has better gimping, but pika can go offstage longer and farther )
oh, and "zomg pikashu haz da thunda hes so cheappp"... seriously, just noobs spam it, but its something every ( good or bad) pika player has under the sleeve and will use it on the right situation

 

[Judge Judy]

mmm, pika has more speed (i know mario is not slow, but certainly not as fast as pikachu), both proyectiles are spammable, like mario, pika can combo mainly with utilt and uair; but pikachu has a better and more versatile recovery, and both can edgeguard each other pretty well( mario has better gimping, but pika can go offstage longer and farther )
oh, and "zomg pikashu haz da thunda hes so cheappp"... seriously, just noobs spam it, but its something every ( good or bad) pika player has under the sleeve and will use it on the right situation

Pikachu is faster on the gound but Mario is actually faster in the air. Pikachu has a longer recovery than Mario, but Mario is actually better at edgeguarding than Pikachu. The cape glide is basically Mario's ace-in-the-hole when it comes to edgegarding. Mario can juggle better than Pikachu can, but again Mario does not have as many disjointed hitboxes as Pikachu. Mario's cape comes out quick enough to block thunders whenever they come out. I still think this match-up is probally about even.

 

[did e]

pika

Pika is a bad match up for me and my play style. I tend to fight very defensively, mostly on the ground or out of short hop, and then seal the deal with good edge guarding and the cape.


The main problems I have are pikachu's d-smash and F-air.

d-smash - Cannot spot dodge this move. The speed the move comes out and mainly the duration of the move makes it something to watch out for. Being able to always DI out helps. If you can roll right before he starts it you can punish with a F-smash. At 150% a fresh d-smash will almost always KO you. If you try and block the whole thing without a full shield you still get tagged. The best strategy I have found against it is to do your best to anticipate it and then try and punish, but if your opponent is savy he will blast you with the great range on his F-smash as you end your roll. Mario's limited recovery options can be a problem also if your opponent is waiting at the ledge for you with a d-smash.

F-air - If you are on the ground and the opponent leads in with this you cannot spot dodge it and cannot block it. The landing lag is not terrible for this move either. One strategy I used a few times was to roll toward or away and try and anticipate which direction he will DI out of it back to the ground to try and punish from there. Another method that seemed to work against it sometimes was to short hop to N-air and let him run into your kick or DI it at him.

These are just some of the issues I have. I played about 20 or 30 Mario vs Pika's yesterday, and if I was able to overcome or at least mitigate these two things I would win. I think Mario is one of the most balanced characters in the game, and with a little trickery and a lucky slip here and there makes Mario land in the win bracket for me.

 

[Takeshi245]

I say 5-5 considering his Fair can be a pain and his nair beats out Mario's uair chains, but like BO X7 said, Mario's bair does beat his aerials. You just have to space yourself properly. Lightning bolt spam won't work against Mario because of his fireballs and cape. Thunder can be caped to be used against Pikachu, and though Pikachu's recovery is better, Mario's better at edgeguarding like Pikachu. His grab range is better than Mario's and D-smash has good priority but you can DI out of that. Pikachu's U-smash KO's Mario well and comes out fast, though. Mario needs to watch out for that. That's my take on it.

 

[BoTastic!]

Mario's KO potential>Pikachu's match up wise. You can can kill pika at low % wit Fsmash and Usmash.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The main problems I have are pikachu's d-smash and F-air.

d-smash - Cannot spot dodge this move. The speed the move comes out and mainly the duration of the move makes it something to watch out for. Being able to always DI out helps. If you can roll right before he starts it you can punish with a F-smash. At 150% a fresh d-smash will almost always KO you. If you try and block the whole thing without a full shield you still get tagged. The best strategy I have found against it is to do your best to anticipate it and then try and punish, but if your opponent is savy he will blast you with the great range on his F-smash as you end your roll. Mario's limited recovery options can be a problem also if your opponent is waiting at the ledge for you with a d-smash.

F-air - If you are on the ground and the opponent leads in with this you cannot spot dodge it and cannot block it. The landing lag is not terrible for this move either. One strategy I used a few times was to roll toward or away and try and anticipate which direction he will DI out of it back to the ground to try and punish from there. Another method that seemed to work against it sometimes was to short hop to N-air and let him run into your kick or DI it at him.

Spotdodging is a terrible idea against Pikachu. Only spotdodge if you know when he C-sticks F-smashes.

D-smash is extremely easy to deal with. Just wiggle the control stick wildly from northwest to northeast and vice versa, and you will escape 99% of the time.

Pikachu's F-air basically, what you do is space well with your B-air, and you will likely trade hits with it. If you get hit by it, try to SDI upwards and N-air him. The landing lag is punishable with a grab if I recall.

 

[hippiedude92]

Even tho its kinda outdated but still a good match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgKlTbUPr_4

Boss is too good at the ending xD.

 

[Genos]

Even tho its kinda outdated but still a good match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgKlTbUPr_4

Boss is too good at the ending xD.

That whole set is awesome. The end of that game is easily the best part.

 

[Skink]

After looking around these boards for a few weeks, I have a somewhat irrelevant question. I can figure out what DI is (shifting direction in the air to dodge attacks or recover specially or something like it) but what exactly does it stand for? And how is it performed? Sorry to bother y'all, I just want to get better.

 

[Judge Judy]

After looking around these boards for a few weeks, I have a somewhat irrelevant question. I can figure out what DI is (shifting direction in the air to dodge attacks or recover specially or something like it) but what exactly does it stand for? And how is it performed? Sorry to bother y'all, I just want to get better.

DI stands for directional influence, basically influencing your movement and trajectory while and after being hit. You just jam the control stick anyway want to go, there are a few kinds of DI but the main ones you'll need to know is tap DI and plain old DI after being hit. Tap DI is the same as normal DI but you rapidly jam the control stick in a direction such as getting out of a multi-hit atk. You can look up all this stuff on smash wiki too.

 

[Famous]

Boss, we should do Samus this week...

 

[vato_break]

have we covered kirby? or wario? or jiggz?

 

[Matt07]

have we covered kirby? or wario? or jiggz?

No we haven't covered Kirby, or Jigglypuff yet. I know because I have a list on WordPad listing pros and cons with each character .

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Boss, we should do Samus this week...

Let's hold off on Samus for a little while longer before we discuss her.

Xyro on the Samus boards is doing a board match type of thing. Calling out all the mains of that character to fight his Sammy.

 

[boss8]

sry give me tommrow i will update everything

 

[Matador]

Mario vs Mario

Definitely a 30:70 matchup. Better and faster Dtilt, a better, more campy projectile, and pretty much better overall. Mario has too much priority in this matchup for Mario to compete with him in the air or on the ground in close battles. Best way to win, counterpick MK.

/sarcasm

You can gimp Mario easily with Fludd -> Cape or cape ledgestall. Fsmash KOs fresh around 100% and Usmash at around 130%. Not particularly difficult to combo even though Utilt chains can be broken out of with Nair or DJ'd out of. UpB > Mario's entire moveset in priority. Dair and Nair go through fireballs and are good for spacing. Bairs are also great in this matchup because they chain together well, outprioritize most of Mario's other attacks, and they are good for spacing a stutterstepped-Fsmash.

Even matchup of course.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

no...

100: 0

Mario's favor....

 

[mario brawler]

for sho...
mario's just way too good

 

[Jellyfishn]

no...

100: 0

Mario's favor....

Really?

I was thinking 0 : 100 in Mario's favor... Mario doesn't stand a chance....

 

[Ray/Boshi]

50/50 :D

The better, more suprisingly awkward Mario usually wins.

 

[Takeshi245]

Man, this title is so epic. Of course, it's logically going to be even.

 

[BoTastic!]

Pros: He has trouble killing, lacks range, gimpable recovery..

Cons: so do you..

 

[hippiedude92]

better mindgames, whoever makes more mistakes, who ever has more skill wins this matchup >.>...