Match-Up Week #20 : Fox

[z3r0C0oL]

^^^ someone didnt read a single post in this thread : /

 

[8AngeL8]

Lmao, Falco only beats fox with lasers and grabs. Fox wins everywhere else. We're trying to debate whether lasers and grabs > everything else.

 

[Teran]

Lmao, Falco only beats fox with lasers and grabs. Fox wins everywhere else. We're trying to debate whether lasers and grabs > everything else.

When one CG with a followup takes him halfway to death percent, it's pretty much what the whole match will be based on lol.
So imo Grabs > All of Fox's moves
Lasers are good but aren't the reliable camping and free damage tool we're used to in this match up so everything else > l4z0rz

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

I have a feeling this is going to be a tough one to call in the end...lol. If the controversy keeps up for a while I will suggest a compromise of 55:45 falco. But lets see how this goes, we just started.

Agreed. This match-up is very tricky. I believe it's 60-40 Falco or 50-50.

Falco beats Fox in almost every department, like in aerials, ground attacks, specials and even taunts

ps. Fox can't fly an arwing, he is almost as bad as slippy

Scrub. GTFO. Don't talk **** about Fox. He is too good.

Lmao, Falco only beats fox with lasers and grabs. Fox wins everywhere else. We're trying to debate whether lasers and grabs > everything else.

I don't think they do because of course we can reflect the lasers and the CG only takes to 50. That is nothing when Fox can answer back with an utilt combo to a PWG tech chase. Nonetheless Falco's CG and Laser are effing amazing in this match-up.


I wonder if anyone knows about Fox pseudo-chain grab on Falco. Fox can fthrow to PWG to like 15%. It's not much but it's something.

 

[-Mars-]

When one CG with a followup takes him halfway to death percent, it's pretty much what the whole match will be based on lol.
So imo Grabs > All of Fox's moves
Lasers are good but aren't the reliable camping and free damage tool we're used to in this match up so everything else > l4z0rz

Lol, you do realize one utilt combo and your halfway to death as well right?

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Hey marsulas are you a Fox mainer or do you still play Zelda?

 

[-Mars-]

I'm a Sheik/Zelda main, but my Fox is better than my Zelda. My Sheik is my best character though. Been using Fox as a secondary since the game came out.

 

[King Funk]

Lol, you do realize one utilt combo and your halfway to death as well right?

Do you realize chaingrabs are so much easier and cheaper to pull out than utilt combos? Unlike chaingrabs, you can't manage a utilt combo whenever you want, especially in high levels of play. You have to get very close and under a Falco that will probably camprape you all the time. For Falco, it takes such a mundane and simple action as grabbing to chain and combo Fox to 50-60%...

 

[clowsui]

This is a battle of extreme spacing

Fox has to be careful NOT to get into the air, where Failco's BAir will outprioritize everything he does and where a UAir trades with almost every move you have >_> He also has to be careful not to get TOO close to Falco, as using a grab always creates the state of advantage for a character + Falco's FTilt is monstrous. Fox also cannot get too far because Falco's mobility with lasers is far greater than his + IAPs are difficult to punish if used correctly.

HOWEVER, Fox can easily win this matchup by punishing common Falcos' bad spacing. DAir -> UTilt ***** (even though it can be SDI'd out of lol, try it around ~40), pivot wave grab is ridiculous and Fox's grabs are good setups for pseudo-juggle traps (DThrow), USmash and DSmash outprioritize a lot of **** and comes out fast, lasers can force an approach because letting Fox fire them for more than two seconds = 10-20% of the damage needed to kill you.

Falco needs to keep strong off-edge pressure with a combination of lasers and BAirs. It doesn't matter if you whiff because the pressure is still there. He needs to make sure to keep consistent laser pressure on stage and maintain the optimal spacing of an FTilt away. USmash is not really your best friend in this matchup, close to Fox = easy mistakes = crazy punishment = TxT Focus on baiting bad positions and go for DSmashes or FSmashes when you can get them.

 

[-Mars-]

Do you realize chaingrabs are so much easier and cheaper to pull out than utilt combos? Unlike chaingrabs, you can't manage a utilt combo whenever you want, especially in high levels of play. You have to get very close and under a Falco that will probably camprape you all the time. For Falco, it takes such a mundane and simple action as grabbing to chain and combo Fox to 50-60%...

It's not as easy grabbing Fox as it is other characters. Shinestalling allows a lot of nice things I can do as a Fox player to avoid getting grabbed from my landing lag.

Reverse utilt has decent range. I can use it OoS or even as an approach.....it's not hard landing a move that hits on frame 3. Also Falco doesn't "camprape" Fox, so let's stop saying ignorant things like that please. Falco can't just sit there and fire away like he can on other characters.

This is a battle of extreme spacing

Fox has to be careful NOT to get into the air, where Failco's BAir will outprioritize everything he does and where a UAir trades with almost every move you have >_> .

I swear i've traded with Falcos bair with either nair or bair.....I could be wrong though.

 

[clowsui]

You can trade when the hitbox is weak, but for when it's strongest it's not going to work iirc

 

[-Mars-]

You can trade when the hitbox is weak, but for when it's strongest it's not going to work iirc

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[BleachigoZX]

How about off stage, I've seen a Fox stay out of the stage for a long time, and it's kinda tricky depending where he is.
Under the stage is tricky because Fox can come up with his Fair. Above the stage we can Laser Fox out with the possibility of a set-up for a Gimp.


I think Falco has the advantage on the ground assuming you reflector your laser as soon you hit the floor, and you space correctly.

Also we keep forgetting we hold the choices that a Fox will have to react to:
Up close, we have annoy with Jab or Grab. Fox can only react with the opposite and that's assuming that he knows what we're doing.
From a distance we can Laser or Phantasm. Both which Fox will have to guess on. He can shield both though, so that's where a problem arises.
Off stage is unknown for me.
In the air we have the advantage by far.
If Fox is in the air and we are grounded Fox has a advantage.
We can chain-grab for a auto-win though. We can spike a Fox, and edge hog because whether or not Fox makes it back to the stage, we have the advantage once he lands.


Fox just has Combo's and Speed. (Dair/uptilt set-ups also annoying Bair)
Majority of Fox's moves are Linear and we can, with patience, counter with a grab.
I think we are overestimating Fox on this one.

65-35.Falco.

 

[Zhamy]

Under the stage is tricky because Fox can come up with his Fair. Above the stage we can Laser Fox out with the possibility of a set-up for a Gimp.

Depends how close; Fox can easily just shine.

I think Falco has the advantage on the ground assuming you reflector your laser as soon you hit the floor, and you space correctly.

Lolwut. It would probably be better to shield it. I say that because Fox can jump/roll between frames 1-3 of the lag from reflecting something.

Up close, we have annoy with Jab or Grab. Fox can only react with the opposite and that's assuming that he knows what we're doing.

Fox can do the exact same, although I'm curious what Falco can do out of Jab, besides...rapid jab. Fox can Jab->Grab, Jab->Dsmash, Jab->Spot dodge-> Punish, Jab->Shield->Grab, etc. etc. Granted, none of them are true combos, but Falco can't react to all of them safely, so it's much more likely that Falco will be annoyed at that range.

From a distance we can Laser or Phantasm. Both which Fox will have to guess on. He can shield both though, so that's where a problem arises.

At the range that a Phantasm could hit, you should already stop lasering, because Fox can punish a reflected laser too easily from there.

Off stage is unknown for me.

Gimp, gimp, gimp the Falco...It's not that easy, but it's in Fox's favor.

In the air we have the advantage by far.

Wait, how? Worse aerial mobility, worse options for aerials, really, the only thing Falco has that's reliable is Bair, and that isn't going to save you from everything.

We can chain-grab for a auto-win though.

Falco =/= Ice Climbers. Don't be ignorant. The CG isn't that good.

We can spike a Fox, and edge hog because whether or not Fox makes it back to the stage, we have the advantage once he lands.

No. Fox can easily reset spacing if you let him land. DJ Fair for the recovery onto stage level into Phantasm resets spacing across the stage, or to shine stall, land on stage, etc. etc. Fox has tons of options for getting out from a spike at that percent.

Fox just has Combo's and Speed. (Dair/uptilt set-ups also annoying Bair)

And better overall game than Falco, sans lasers and CG. Do you know anything about Fox at high level play? Because none of your statements have any real proof behind them.

Majority of Fox's moves are Linear and we can, with patience, counter with a grab.

What the hell does this even mean?

I think we are overestimating Fox on this one.

Actually, it's just you underestimating him.

I'm calling it 60:40 Falco at best, or 55:45, depending on how the Falco boards feel. Lasers are good, but they're not that good. CG is good, but it's not that good. Regardless, Falco has at least a little edge in the matchup because of these two tools alone, not to mention other possibilities. I'd call it 60:40 because those two force Fox into some uncomfortable spacing situations, which really just eliminates some of Fox's options.

 

[Conviction]

Since Falco is my secondary I am getting tired of the CG to spike will kill for Fox. I saw this already you can smash DI towards the stage and ethier end up edge teching or landing on the stage. I wanted to get that straight. And since you guys want to metion high level play Grabs will as hard to land Fox's Dair. When you guys say high level of play you make it sound like only one person is playing at a high-level.

 

[King Funk]

'Nuff said... Should we find common ground in a matchup number? I will agree on 60-40 for Falco just because of the chaingrab (for the damage not for the spike).

 

[Conviction]

Yea I'll agree something like 60-40 to 50-50

 

[Teran]

I said 55/45 Falco from the beginning. That's the lovely middle ground that stops all the arguments!

 

[-Mars-]

55-45 sounds good to me, I think Falco does have a slight advantage but it's not much.

 

[Teran]

55-45 sounds good to me, I think Falco does have a slight advantage but it's not much.

Although we're definitely miles ahead in our piloting ability.

 

[-Mars-]

That's why I shoot your b**** a$$ with a landmaster.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Depends how close; Fox can easily just shine.



Lolwut. It would probably be better to shield it. I say that because Fox can jump/roll between frames 1-3 of the lag from reflecting something.



Fox can do the exact same, although I'm curious what Falco can do out of Jab, besides...rapid jab. Fox can Jab->Grab, Jab->Dsmash, Jab->Spot dodge-> Punish, Jab->Shield->Grab, etc. etc. Granted, none of them are true combos, but Falco can't react to all of them safely, so it's much more likely that Falco will be annoyed at that range.



At the range that a Phantasm could hit, you should already stop lasering, because Fox can punish a reflected laser too easily from there.



Gimp, gimp, gimp the Falco...It's not that easy, but it's in Fox's favor.



Wait, how? Worse aerial mobility, worse options for aerials, really, the only thing Falco has that's reliable is Bair, and that isn't going to save you from everything.



Falco =/= Ice Climbers. Don't be ignorant. The CG isn't that good.



No. Fox can easily reset spacing if you let him land. DJ Fair for the recovery onto stage level into Phantasm resets spacing across the stage, or to shine stall, land on stage, etc. etc. Fox has tons of options for getting out from a spike at that percent.



And better overall game than Falco, sans lasers and CG. Do you know anything about Fox at high level play? Because none of your statements have any real proof behind them.



What the hell does this even mean?



Actually, it's just you underestimating him.

I'm calling it 60:40 Falco at best, or 55:45, depending on how the Falco boards feel. Lasers are good, but they're not that good. CG is good, but it's not that good. Regardless, Falco has at least a little edge in the matchup because of these two tools alone, not to mention other possibilities. I'd call it 60:40 because those two force Fox into some uncomfortable spacing situations, which really just eliminates some of Fox's options.

Yet another Zhamy MUSD!!!!!!

 

[Conviction]

Yet another Zhamy MUSD!!!!!!

Stealing my line?

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Stealing my line?

ROFL!

no sir, just spreading it =D

 

[Conviction]

ROFL!

no sir, just spreading it =D

Lol ok. Keep up the good work... i guess

 

[-Mars-]

So how about counter pick stages? I'm thinking of taking Falco to Orpheon and maybe Falco taking Fox to Japes?

 

[King Funk]

55-45 sounds good to me, although I still lean towards 60-40. But hey, no problem...

Counterpick stages:

Fox --> Corneria:
- U-Smash, enough said...

Falco --> Jungle Japes:
- Faster Phantasm movement (crazy Sethlon edgegrabbing)
- Klap Trap
- High ceiling, bad for Fox's U-Smash

 

[Backward]

Falco is seriously good in this game. I don't mean to go against everyone's opinion for the hell of it, but Falco simply beats Fox out both in the ground AND the air. The only disadvantage he has is getting the kill earlier than Fox. That's all.

I'm wondering if the Fox people know something about his U-Air that we all don't. Apparently it's good, when it has a small hitbox, considerably less killing power as opposed to Melee, short attack duration, can't be comboed into, nor be followed up with anything.

His U-Tilt is good, though, I'll give it that.

But don't fool yourselves, Fox/ Falco mainers alike. Fox has almost nothing on Falco.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Falco is seriously good in this game. I don't mean to go against everyone's opinion for the hell of it, but Falco simply beats Fox out both in the ground AND the air. The only disadvantage he has is getting the kill earlier than Fox. That's all.

I'm wondering if the Fox people know something about his U-Air that we all don't. Apparently it's good, when it has a small hitbox, considerably less killing power as opposed to Melee, short attack duration, can't be comboed into, nor be followed up with anything.

His U-Tilt is good, though, I'll give it that.

But don't fool yourselves, Fox/ Falco mainers alike. Fox has almost nothing on Falco.

Do you have any experience in the Fox/Falco match-up or are you just basing your post on of opinions throughout the boards?

To my knowledge the up air isn't that great. I'd prefer to land a back air or a forward air.

 

[Backward]

Do you have any experience in the Fox/Falco match-up or are you just basing your post on of opinions throughout the boards?

To my knowledge the up air isn't that great. I'd prefer to land a back air or a forward air.

I base it on what can be seen from the game. No bias involved. You and I play the same game, you should be able to see clearly what your character can or cannot do easily. I don't frequent these boards, but I was curious as to why anyone would NOT think Falco has a significant advantage over Falco, that's all.

Fox B-Air suffers from the same stuff as the U-air. F-air is good as far as offensive is concerned, but the long commitment time, post-lag involved and ability to DI out of it mid-attack makes it much more punishable than say for example, Falco's N-Air.

 

[-Mars-]

I base it on what can be seen from the game. No bias involved. You and I play the same game, you should be able to see clearly what your character can or cannot do easily. I don't frequent these boards, but I was curious as to why anyone would NOT think Falco has a significant advantage over Falco, that's all.

Fox B-Air suffers from the same stuff as the U-air. F-air is good as far as offensive is concerned, but the long commitment time, post-lag involved and ability to DI out of it mid-attack makes it much more punishable than say for example, Falco's N-Air.

Fair can be auto-cancelled. The commitment time you speak of makes no since since Fox can drift out of range with no harm to him.

 

[Teran]

I don't frequent these boards, but I was curious as to why anyone would NOT think Falco has a significant advantage over Falco, that's all.

Umm, because they have the exact same moves?
I love typo lulz

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

I base it on what can be seen from the game. No bias involved. You and I play the same game, you should be able to see clearly what your character can or cannot do easily. I don't frequent these boards, but I was curious as to why anyone would NOT think Falco has a significant advantage over Falco, that's all.

Fox B-Air suffers from the same stuff as the U-air. F-air is good as far as offensive is concerned, but the long commitment time, post-lag involved and ability to DI out of it mid-attack makes it much more punishable than say for example, Falco's N-Air.

I see. But you see I doubt you have seen how every Fox plays against Falco. Like I do agree that Falco is better than Fox but not by the margins you are saying. Everything Falco can do to rack up damage on Fox, Fox can answer back with a certain move of his own. ie: CG=up tilt combo. I agree with everyone else saying 55:45 Falco.

Fair can be auto-cancelled. The commitment time you speak of makes no since since Fox can drift out of range with no harm to him.

This.

 

[Conviction]

Falco is seriously good in this game. I don't mean to go against everyone's opinion for the hell of it, but Falco simply beats Fox out both in the ground AND the air. The only disadvantage he has is getting the kill earlier than Fox. That's all.

I'm wondering if the Fox people know something about his U-Air that we all don't. Apparently it's good, when it has a small hitbox, considerably less killing power as opposed to Melee, short attack duration, can't be comboed into, nor be followed up with anything.

His U-Tilt is good, though, I'll give it that.

But don't fool yourselves, Fox/ Falco mainers alike. Fox has almost nothing on Falco.

Are really sure you know what your talking about? Even if we all play the same game. We all PLAY at different levels. So. What kinda foxes do you play?

 

[Vlade]

I base it on what can be seen from the game. No bias involved. You and I play the same game, you should be able to see clearly what your character can or cannot do easily. I don't frequent these boards, but I was curious as to why anyone would NOT think Falco has a significant advantage over Falco, that's all.

Fox B-Air suffers from the same stuff as the U-air. F-air is good as far as offensive is concerned, but the long commitment time, post-lag involved and ability to DI out of it mid-attack makes it much more punishable than say for example, Falco's N-Air.

You could not be more wrong <3

 

[Backward]

Fair can be auto-cancelled. The commitment time you speak of makes no since since Fox can drift out of range with no harm to him.

Lasers. Falco can punish it with a laser then a follow-up depending on the distance between them. I didn't know it could be auto-cancelled though; maybe I've been away from the game for too long? Still, my mistake. I'm not saying it's a bad move overall, just that it's punishable and Falco IS excellent at that.

Before I left Brawl, one of the best players in my city did Fox/ Metaknight. We don't think too highly of Fox. You know when you guys say, 'don't get hit'? You can really a hurt a Fox, more so that a LOT of other characters if you play patiently.

Tell me more of this U-Tilt combo. What %s can you begin to escape it/ is it escapable with DI/ with what ways can you set it up as opposed to Falco's chaingrab/ what can you reliably end it with?

Look people, I used to be very symphathetic towards Fox. But I just can't see what he's got going for him in this matchup.

 

[Zhamy]

Falco is seriously good in this game. I don't mean to go against everyone's opinion for the hell of it,

Right, it seems you're doing it because you don't understand the matchup.

but Falco simply beats Fox out both in the ground AND the air.

I can do that too; watch: "but Fox simply beats Falco out both in the ground AND the air." Guess what? It's just as valid as your statement, which is not valid at all, because you have no proof.

The only disadvantage he has is getting the kill earlier than Fox. That's all.

Read what you wrote.

I'm wondering if the Fox people know something about his U-Air that we all don't. Apparently it's good, when it has a small hitbox, considerably less killing power as opposed to Melee, short attack duration, can't be comboed into, nor be followed up with anything.

I was wondering if you knew anything about what this matchup is about, but after reading this statement, I don't really have to wonder anymore.

His U-Tilt is good, though, I'll give it that.

Huzzah, you understand something.

But don't fool yourselves, Fox/ Falco mainers alike. Fox has almost nothing on Falco.

Don't fool yourself; you don't get the matchup.

I base it on what can be seen from the game. No bias involved.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA good joke.

You and I play the same game, you should be able to see clearly what your character can or cannot do easily.

Yes, you should. Surprisingly, you can't.

I don't frequent these boards, but I was curious as to why anyone would NOT think Falco has a significant advantage over Falco, that's all.

Read what you wrote. And you obviously haven't read a single noteworthy post in this entire matchup thread, or you wouldn't be saying that.

Fox B-Air suffers from the same stuff as the U-air. F-air is good as far as offensive is concerned, but the long commitment time, post-lag involved and ability to DI out of it mid-attack makes it much more punishable than say for example, Falco's N-Air.

Man, you're good at jokes. You obviously have no idea what Bair is used for, the difference between Fox's Fair and Falco's Nair, and what situations they're supposed to be used for. Hey, Fox's Usmash beats Falco's Dtilt. GOOD COMPARISON. You're wrong about the mechanics, the uses, and the general playstyle of anyone who's decent with either of the two characters.

Lasers. Falco can punish it with a laser then a follow-up depending on the distance between them.

Learn some frame data before you BS some stuff.

Still, my mistake. I'm not saying it's a bad move overall, just that it's punishable and Falco IS excellent at that.

That's not what you were saying at all. Learn to stick to your own argument.

Before I left Brawl, one of the best players in my city did Fox/ Metaknight. We don't think too highly of Fox. You know when you guys say, 'don't get hit'? You can really a hurt a Fox, more so that a LOT of other characters if you play patiently.

If your opinions are formed because of this guy, your city is trash at Brawl, or at least at playing Fox v Falco.

Tell me more of this U-Tilt combo. What %s can you begin to escape it/ is it escapable with DI/ with what ways can you set it up as opposed to Falco's chaingrab/ what can you reliably end it with?

Wait, let me get this straight. You're trying to talk about a matchup discussion between two characters when you don't know the basic combos and tactics of the other character? Right, let me make sure I take careful note of your opinion. Learn what you're talking about before you start spewing random nonsense.

Look people, I used to be very symphathetic towards Fox. But I just can't see what he's got going for him in this matchup.

No one cares if you're sympathetic toward Fox or not. We care if you understand the matchup and have something meaningful to contribute. You haven't contributed anything useful.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I am inclined to think this match us is even, 50-50, taking everything into consideration and you compare them..

Falco's chaingrab-attack options vs Fox's Uptilt-attack options
Falco's Chaingrab in my opinion is just a little bit more superior because it is easier to apply than fox's uptilt. A lot of fox's attack options can be easily shieldgrabbed. But fox's uptilt is quick and hard to avoid at the right time.

Recovery options
Fox wins this one. Same options as Falco and more. Can also SideB to the ledge or onto the stage. Fox's Reflector can slow aerial speed to practically nothing and keep falco guessing. This also makes fox the harder to gimp in recovery and Falco all the more predictable in edgeguarding.

Reflector
Fox's reflector has more uses than Falco's in this match up as it can be used for its uses in recovery, semi-spiking, and of course reflecting. Minimal lag compared to Falco helps stop a campy Falco.

Really the only thing Falco's reflector has the advantage over Fox's is possible tripping and the ability to space. That is about it.

Blaster
This is an interesting comparison. Both can be SHL, or SHDL (fox with the SHTL option if done correctly)

Fox's reflector prevents usage of Falco's blaster at a distance. Fox just sees it coming even if falco tries to play a bit of a laser "mindgame". Up close this becomes harder to predict and Falco can use this to his advantage. Fox reflecting an empty SH leads to a chaingrab, Dair, etc. Miscalculated SH leads to the stunning of fox (or shielded) and a follow up of an attack.

Fox's Blaster is in the option direction as it is risky to use up close because it cannot stun and a SH is needed for that no lag at the end to be used upclose to be less punishable for it's usage. At a distance it can be spammed like crazy and relatively safe to spam because it does have a somewhat faster cooldown time than other projectiles. So because of this falco can be lured into using his reflector and using fox's running speed punish the lag on Falco's Reflector. If not, falco will be lured into an approach.

In all, fox has a sligthly better camp ability than falco. But Falco has the better ability to string his projectiles into attacks and ultimatly cause the shift of defence and offence on both sides.

Killing
Fox wins this one. Foxs smashes come about a bit quicker in general and have more knockback than Falcos. But both are light characters and will get KOed at the around the same percantages. Fox also has a strong Uair and back air like falco, but are a bit harder to connect.

Spacing
Falco I would say keeps his bread through better spacing. With phantasm, lasers and reflector, falco can rack up a lot of damage in some relativly safe manner. I believe that falcos Ftilt and jabs outrange fox's, but I am not sure. Fox's Dtilt seems to have range equal to that of falco's Ftilt.

Combos/Pressuring
I know that true combos in brawl are few, but for a lack of a better term to describe attacks that setup nicely with each other I'll use that. And since that is related to pressure I'll throw that together in this comparison.

Both have decent pressuring options.

Falco's jabs, tilts and aerials (apart from Fair)are a bit hard to punish when properly spaced. Plus these follow up with each other and the lasers.

Fox's attacks are in general faster to come out and that in itself leads all of the attacks to set up with each other nicely. Since fox is a fast character overall that has a natural tendancy to pressure a person when attacks are coming out very quickly and one has to keep up with them all.

Overview
The above comparisons show that this is a close match up, they are even in just about everything and the pros and cons of them both equal each other out. That is why I think the match up is 50-50.

A good fox player will want to avoid the chaingrab that gives Falco that edge with fox and force the approach with his lasers and punish any mistakes that a Falco user might make.

I believe Falco will want to make sure he does not get into that uptilt attack sequence and get decent spacing against fox to avoid that from happening and play defensively to get that chance to get the chaingrab. Once you do accquire some percentage to avoid the uptilt attack sequence or Fox is in the percentage to be KOed you will want to play more offensively to get that kill.​

 

[-Mars-]

Crystal just won this thread

 

[Zhamy]

It's a good post, but some things need clarification.

Really the only thing Falco's reflector has the advantage over Fox's is possible tripping and the ability to space. That is about it.

Spacing at the tip of the reflector is probably where it would be most effective, but at that range, Fox would either be baiting with SHs or shielding his way (sliding or power), so you won't see it thrown out that often.

Fox wins this one. Foxs smashes come about a bit quicker in general and have more knockback than Falcos. But both are light characters and will get KOed at the around the same percantages. Fox also has a strong Uair and back air like falco, but are a bit harder to connect.

The other thing not to forget here is gimping, which Fox, I would argue, has at least a slight advantage, due simply to mobility and options.

Fox's Dtilt seems to have range equal to that of falco's Ftilt.

Dtilt is a pretty useless move; don't even factor it in.

This is actually one of my favorite matchups, simply because it's all about spacing games and knowing each character's "dead zones," (a slightly misleading term) and trying to force your opponent into that range.