Match Up Thread Export - Fox

Noobicidal

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
3,551
#1

This thread will be used to help keep match up discussion clean and concise. This series of threads will all be linked to the compendium.

With that said, this thread is dedicated to the Jigglypuff/Fox match up. Let the discussion commence!

Match Up Summary

Stage Picks and Bans

Final Word

Relevant/Important Links
 

Destrawr

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
69
#3
GIMP GIMP GIMP GIMP GIMP!
Take him to Frigate, imo.
If he jumps up to avoid falling under when it swaps, make sure he lands on the ground half dead.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,792
Location
Cleveland, OH
#4
Fox is pretty scary... you can't commit to anything once you're past 85% thanks to his u-smash and his dash speed.

It kills Jiggs at 75% on FD without DI btw.
so about 90% w/ DI then?
GIMP GIMP GIMP GIMP GIMP!
Take him to Frigate, imo.
If he jumps up to avoid falling under when it swaps, make sure he lands on the ground half dead.
exactly.

i don't think Fox is too bad of a fight. sure we die early if we get hit by Usmash, but then the same thing happens against Zelda so.....meh.

he can camp, but dodging around lasers isn't too hard and picking a smaller stage where he can't camp as much remedies that problem (makes us die earlier sometimes though). then you'll want to bait him into coming towards you cause we're too close for him to shoot safely. throwing out retreating Nairs and Bairs to bait a reaction are good. DACUS is good if your in range and he's in the middle of SHTL/SHDL for some quick damage.

or if your like me and prefer to initiate the date....

i think pound outreaches his Fair, so if you decide to press the approach more you can hit through his retreating Fair. you can also opt to try and go behind his shield w/ Dair. i also like to run in and Nair off his shield and retreat just outside of grab range.

once we get Fox in the air he becomes pretty easy to juggle just watch for shine stall tricks and he shouldn't be too hard too keep him up in the air.

Fox has a good recovery, but Nair goes through both side and upB. you can also follow him out w/ Dair to pull him further from the stage. Fair gimps work just as well, i just prefer Dair/Nair cause they last longer.

ban FD cause its long and flat. for starters go to BF if your good w/ platforms or SV if your not as good w/ them

ban Halberd. the ability to shark part of the stage is not worth dying earlier in this case, especially when on the ship and he can camp for free while you also have to watch out for the lasers/bombs. he can camp somewhat when its moving too.

Delfino is good sometimes cause theres water and sharking available often.

other than that i say Brinstar, FO, and Lylat are good stages to go to because they limit camping space and mess w/ his recovery.
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
1,915
Location
Macungie, PA
#5
i second fox and i have to say, its a "marathon" for puff. The fox will triple lazer camp until you start jumping at him and then flood you with nair to turn around uptilts which will catch the slightest jump from puff. Fox will bait you by moving to the edge and trying to bait that "gimp combo" approach, only to move out of the way and lazer again. DACUS will only work once or twice and it has to be perfect or you get an upsmash to the face. Overall its just puff chasing fox around the stage and hoping for that gimp.
Its got to be like 70-30 fox for sure.
^this is assuming the fox knows how to grab rollout properly :/
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#10
This Matchup is evil as in a way that you are very afraid of that usmash. It's incredibly hard to avoid too.
Always keep your controls stick to the sides to ensure best survival.
Retreating fairs and bairs can make it harder for Fox to hit you.
After you reach about 80-90%, don't approach. Even if you get to 300%, don't approach, wait for an opening.
When you got A LOT of damage, the opponent Fox wants to finish you off, which you can punish. Be wary that this is recommended with an advantage or many Foxes just keep camping.
Do a mistake and we get our heads handed to us :)
 

hichez50

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
1,464
Location
Georgia
3DS FC
2122-6108-1245
NNID
Player-00
#12
This Matchup is evil as in a way that you are very afraid of that usmash. It's incredibly hard to avoid too.
Always keep your controls stick to the sides to ensure best survival.
Retreating fairs and bairs can make it harder for Fox to hit you.
After you reach about 80-90%, don't approach. Even if you get to 300%, don't approach, wait for an opening.
Don't jigglypuff's usually perform these actions
 

Titah

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
20
Location
Hawaii
#13
Hm...Fox....

I haven't had much Fox experience but, as a Puff main, I can say that usmash is killer. If Jiggs gets a lead, Jiggs could just crouch to force Fox to approach.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#15
Yes, Jiggz plays like that always. This MU is not an exception. Fox has his usmash and it sucks for us.
His lasers are lol.
Can't we crouch his lasers?
Also if you are the Jiggz who uses rest, don't do it after about 30% unless you are confident about your skills.
You can SDI his dair so it doesn't link to usmash. It's still scary :S
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
1,915
Location
Macungie, PA
#17
Well he figured dat since fox and jigzy both smexy dat its bestest to be fair to both of dem so he gives em a 50-50! =D
But den he realized dat jigzy is da cuter one so he givez him a extra 15 for goodz measure! =D
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
11,841
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
#20
i'm sure the existance of samus' z-air changes quite a few MUs

anyways, i wish i had more to say on this, but i don't know the matchup that well... on a theorycraft level, a lot of stuff that is usually safe doesn't seem safe against fox, which is not a good thing.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#21
I understood your point. I just mean't that just because Fox's usmash kills Jiggz early doesn't make the MU suck. Jiggz is lightweight, every move kills her earlier than others. Simple as that. It's an unfortunate disadvantage.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
4,285
#22
i'm sure the existance of samus' z-air changes quite a few MUs.
It gives us a fighting chance in at least 15 of our match ups, which would be unwinnable / very tough otherwise.


Fox's Usmash is game changing. Just because of this, He can kill Jiggs reliably. Her dying at around 80 to a Usmash is far better then him having to wait until 120 or so for a Fsmash kill.
 

Rizk18

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
1,474
Location
Dearborn Heights,Michigan
#23
65-35 on FD. Stages like Frigate or Delfino I think would be good CP's for Jigglypuff. It would be about 60-40 Fox on those stages or 55-45. Usmash is the worst for you guys. It kills you at about 80 even with DI. Not unwinnable but it's hard. Duck under laser to force Fox to approach.

:phone:
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#24
This is one of the MUs I have actually played with Puff in a tournament. It was against one of Finlands better players and I actually won the set. I'll try to remember how I played and think of something to say.
 

[FBC] Papa Mink

Brawl Backroom Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
12,918
Location
Orlando, FL
NNID
PapaMink
#25
I really think it's 55:45 to Even/
Its alot easier than falco. We don't have a dumb jab to deal with / Dumb Reflector.
We actually have a decent time playing foxes. And we won't get juggled.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#26
I believe the worst things in this MU is that he is much faster than us and keep away decently well. Otherwise it's pretty evenish IMO, except landing the kill is so stupidly in their favor it's sad.
 

IhaveSonar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
268
#27
65-35 Fox, same as Falco. What he lacks in Falco's aerials and reflector he makes up with Usmash and the speed required to get in our face.
 

Kaptain

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
675
Location
Statham, GA
#30
If he's above us he'll use it to try to carry us down. I have a pocket fox, and I would if you were trying to juggle me. Id shine stall mind game/bait your attack then try to carry you down with my dair. Then combo that into whatever i want.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,792
Location
Cleveland, OH
#31
If he's above us he'll use it to try to carry us down. I have a pocket fox, and I would if you were trying to juggle me. Id shine stall mind game/bait your attack then try to carry you down with my dair. Then combo that into whatever i want.
in that situation you can opt to just threaten Fox from the side especially if he's shine stalling. catch him w/ a curve around Uair or something. JP can also just land and follow his falling, Fox can't move far away from his stalling position.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,443
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
#32
You guys are f***ing crazy.

Look at it this way: He can force an approach via lasers, his walk + jab/tilts are good at beating our aerial pressure, his usmash KOs mega scary, he can shine stall to stop us juggling him and he recovers way easier than Falco.

And you guys think Falco is a worse match-up? o_O
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#33
Yes, I think Falco is worse. His important tools (Lasers, walk + jab/tilts and grab followups) are way more useful than Fox and can completely screw us over. The worst thing for this MU to me is the killing difference which makes this a terrible counter against us.
 

Kaptain

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
675
Location
Statham, GA
#34
Remember too, all of foxes aerials are viable. His bair is a stupid kill move. His Uair can kill well too, and his whole body is a hitbox, so he can drop it on us (not that he would but its an option.) His Fair is a nice wall of stop, which he can also you to get more height (helicopter kicking). His nair + FF is good at camping in the air.... then that dair....

Even with all this, we can out prioritize him in the air easily, cept for bair iirc. Its gonna be tough, but not unwinable.
 

[FBC] Papa Mink

Brawl Backroom Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
12,918
Location
Orlando, FL
NNID
PapaMink
#36
Guys.
First off you can DI through Fox's fair and rest interupt.

2nd off. The main reason falco is dumb is because of the knockback his lasers give, combined with his jab and grab setups. I can't stress on that jab enough. **** it.

As for juggling fox, when's the last time that you juggled someone, like really? Never. You can "air combo" them horizontally. But let's face the facts. We're not keeping anyone above us. Fox shining doesn't ****ing change anything. Just because his phantasm and firefox go farther doesn't mean that we can't stop it... It's not like we kick off falco and say LOL. You have to go get them. Same with fox.

Fox's tilts and jab aren't anything to **** yourself about. They're mid grade at best.
This match isn't that hard.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
#37
I agree the match isn't hard, but a single read and you die twice as early as they do. It really matters a lot.
 
Top