[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
It seems this is the new MU discussion.
I'll post my MU info here.
-1 (Voted)
I don’t’ believe Falco has an advantage over Jigglypuff in this matchup. Falco is fairly lightweight so he can die easily around 100%. He has ranged attacks ie reflector and lasers but the reflector shouldn’t come out often against us, and we can duck lasers if we need to. One of Falco’s biggest gimmicks is the chain grab.. which doesn’t work on jigglypuff. He can tech chase us by knowing where we are going to go after the downthrow but that’s it.
Falco also cannot kill very easily which a lot of people may disagree with. Falco has three kill moves if you’re under the 115% range. You can find them below in the moves that kill range. Next to the kill potential moves I put what percent they will kill you at WITHOUT DI. Falco’s recovery is very poor and leaves them open for an easy opportunity for them to get gimped. Finally, Falco’s aerials are below average and jigglypuff beats falco in the air. This fight is very very very very hard. It takes alot of patience. You cannot be aggressive in this MU. Force falco to come after you and hopefully chase you off the edge. Gain the lead. You will NOT outclass falco on the ground. This match is ALL about baiting.
Summary From The Export
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1. Bair will kill from center stage of Final D at 135% without DI. It will kill offstage (while you are recovering) at 100%.
2. Fsmash will kill at 100% from center stage.
3. Usmash/Dacus will kill at 95%.
4. Utilt kills around the same time as Usmash.
2. From center final D, Fair kills at 113%
3. Rest will kill at 72%
4. Fsmash will kill at 100%
5. Usmash will kill at 104%
6. Rolllout will kill at 75%
1.Punishing phantasm.
This is probably my favorite part of the matchup. Not only does this make the match more difficult for falco but it discourages falcos from chasing you on the sides of the stage. One bad screw up, regardless of perfent and they are dead.
2. Laser game.
Since we are an aerial character we can do well against the lasers. We can also duck below the lasers. They are still a pain but it’s something that every character has to deal with and we have a slight advantage over other characters.
3. Grab game.
Jigglypuff has great grab game. Her grab reach is awesome compared to other low tier characters and all throws do 10%, with 3% pummels. Punish short hopped Dairs or misplaces smashes with a backthrow and then punish them off the edge.
4. Grab release to death.
This is not as easy to do. But it’s useful. When Falco is short hopping his lasers if you can manage to dash grab him and hold him over the edge until he is grab released the only thing that he can do is fire-falco. The phantasm will be released underneath the stage so he will die. Time the fire falco correctly and edgehog him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeSdZu8ZHRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPs7zaHeOOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C9Uf95Ml_o
Me Vs Xaltis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9cN95BI_Ng
^^ More recent.
Feel free to discuss.
I'll post my MU info here.
-1 (Voted)
---Summary---
I don’t’ believe Falco has an advantage over Jigglypuff in this matchup. Falco is fairly lightweight so he can die easily around 100%. He has ranged attacks ie reflector and lasers but the reflector shouldn’t come out often against us, and we can duck lasers if we need to. One of Falco’s biggest gimmicks is the chain grab.. which doesn’t work on jigglypuff. He can tech chase us by knowing where we are going to go after the downthrow but that’s it.
Falco also cannot kill very easily which a lot of people may disagree with. Falco has three kill moves if you’re under the 115% range. You can find them below in the moves that kill range. Next to the kill potential moves I put what percent they will kill you at WITHOUT DI. Falco’s recovery is very poor and leaves them open for an easy opportunity for them to get gimped. Finally, Falco’s aerials are below average and jigglypuff beats falco in the air. This fight is very very very very hard. It takes alot of patience. You cannot be aggressive in this MU. Force falco to come after you and hopefully chase you off the edge. Gain the lead. You will NOT outclass falco on the ground. This match is ALL about baiting.
Summary From The Export
In conjunction with the information i have listed in here we have come to this: We will never be able to beat Falco on the ground, we have to beat him in the air and gain the lead. We are simply outclassed on the ground. Falco's jab is ridiculous. If we crouch when we get hit by the first, and he follows with the 2nd one, we can crouch cancel into a rest. Being able to rest something is not a viable option unless you're lower than 60% and he's over 72%. Normally, just DI away and start over from a neutral point. Falco's Nair is really obnoxious and will punish you for being on platforms above you.
The best stages would be to strike FD and SV. Falco can control those stages way too easily. You need room to run away and platforms to avoid lasers and bait jumps. Personally i think that Castle Siege / PS1 are our very good, PS1 gives us a lower cieling and areas to run. Same with CS, but the 2nd and 3rd transformations are slightly dukie for jigglypuff.
Yoshi's and Lylat are both good because they can protect from lasers. But with YI, Falco can control the stage very easily. If you have the option between these two, go with lylat because of the stage shifting. Not only does it help with the laser thing, but it screws up falco's recovery.
The following is something we should start doing as well. This is an awesome idea.Except with crouching instead of pikmin of course.
The best stages would be to strike FD and SV. Falco can control those stages way too easily. You need room to run away and platforms to avoid lasers and bait jumps. Personally i think that Castle Siege / PS1 are our very good, PS1 gives us a lower cieling and areas to run. Same with CS, but the 2nd and 3rd transformations are slightly dukie for jigglypuff.
Yoshi's and Lylat are both good because they can protect from lasers. But with YI, Falco can control the stage very easily. If you have the option between these two, go with lylat because of the stage shifting. Not only does it help with the laser thing, but it screws up falco's recovery.
The following is something we should start doing as well. This is an awesome idea.Except with crouching instead of pikmin of course.
More useful things by Blissard: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13229949&postcount=35Blissard said:As Olimar, if I have the lead on Falco, I'll play near the ledge and spam Pikmin, forcing Falco to approach, and making it risky to use Phantasm. I supposed Jiggs can do the same thing, except with crouch.
---Moves To Watch Out For---
Jab -> Grab
–Jab comes out on Frame 2-
A Very common falco technique is the jab to grab combo. At low percents the grab can lead to a variety of things. For example it can lead to:
--Regrab if you airdodge or decide to land and shield. Or if you try to land behind them.
--Another jab.
--DACUS
It’s not nearly as good as marth’s follow ups but Falco does have many options. The best thing I have found after being Downthrown is to simply float off. Throughout the entire match you have time to get back in falco’s face. You have no need to land back on the ground for another grab. Get above falco. Falco’s aerial game should scare him off into not chasing you.
A Very common falco technique is the jab to grab combo. At low percents the grab can lead to a variety of things. For example it can lead to:
--Regrab if you airdodge or decide to land and shield. Or if you try to land behind them.
--Another jab.
--DACUS
It’s not nearly as good as marth’s follow ups but Falco does have many options. The best thing I have found after being Downthrown is to simply float off. Throughout the entire match you have time to get back in falco’s face. You have no need to land back on the ground for another grab. Get above falco. Falco’s aerial game should scare him off into not chasing you.
Lasers
Lasers can be very hard to deal with, but if you know what you are doing they shouldn’t give you that much trouble. For one, falco’s lasers ALWAYS make you face towards them when in the air. So Bair approaching is going to be difficult. You can duck the lasers but that might lead to falco shooting repetitive lasers over your head. At this point you have 4 options that I have discovered. Decide which works best for your situation:
1. Shield and powershield dash your way to get in falco’s face.
2. Shield and allow the lasers to push you safely onto the ledge where you will have ledge invincibility, thus not being hurt.
3. Time a jump (when the lasers directly above you) to jump between lasers.
4. Take a laser to the face.
5. Floating beats lasers. So use that to your advantage
2. Shield and allow the lasers to push you safely onto the ledge where you will have ledge invincibility, thus not being hurt.
3. Time a jump (when the lasers directly above you) to jump between lasers.
4. Take a laser to the face.
5. Floating beats lasers. So use that to your advantage
DACUS/Usmash
–First hitbox comes out on frame 8-
The Dacus is a kill move for sure. For those who don’t know what a DACUS is, it’s a dash attack cancelled upsmash. Which is another term for an upsmash that slides from halfway across the stage. (mortar slide). A common way for Falco to use the dacus is after a SH’ed laser, buffered into a DACUS so the hitstun will allow for a safe hit from falcos upsmash. The Usmash does lose kill potential. Especially once you start hitting the 80-90 area and Falco is looking for that kill. You can punish the Dacus with a shield->SH -> Nair/Fair. Another choice is pound, though the ending lag when it hits falco’s shield can lead to an OOS usmash.
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The Dacus is a kill move for sure. For those who don’t know what a DACUS is, it’s a dash attack cancelled upsmash. Which is another term for an upsmash that slides from halfway across the stage. (mortar slide). A common way for Falco to use the dacus is after a SH’ed laser, buffered into a DACUS so the hitstun will allow for a safe hit from falcos upsmash. The Usmash does lose kill potential. Especially once you start hitting the 80-90 area and Falco is looking for that kill. You can punish the Dacus with a shield->SH -> Nair/Fair. Another choice is pound, though the ending lag when it hits falco’s shield can lead to an OOS usmash.
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Falco’s Aerials: Don't Be Scared
Bair
Nair
–first hits out on frame 3-
is mostly used for pressure with short hops. At least as far as I’VE seen it used. On battlefield for example, Falco’s will SH through the platforms to Nair shield pressure or to force you off of the platform. Don’t try to beat it because the only move we could try to use is Dair and it’s not worth taking percents.
Fair
–first hits out on frame 6-
Never used. Be embarrassed when it hits you.
Dair
–first hits out on frame 5-
Used as a spike mostly. Don’t be predictable coming up off of the edge because he can punish you with it. If the falco has been “spike happy” try going in from the side, go down and rise up far enough Falco won’t want to come get you.
–first hits out on frame 4-
The back air is one of Falco’s kill moves. It’s a sex kick. It comes out on frame 4 and the opening frames will kill. While the sex kick is lingering it doesn’t have kill potential just minor knockback. Just counter it with pound or go around it. It’s a hard move to land.
The back air is one of Falco’s kill moves. It’s a sex kick. It comes out on frame 4 and the opening frames will kill. While the sex kick is lingering it doesn’t have kill potential just minor knockback. Just counter it with pound or go around it. It’s a hard move to land.
Nair
–first hits out on frame 3-
is mostly used for pressure with short hops. At least as far as I’VE seen it used. On battlefield for example, Falco’s will SH through the platforms to Nair shield pressure or to force you off of the platform. Don’t try to beat it because the only move we could try to use is Dair and it’s not worth taking percents.
Fair
–first hits out on frame 6-
Never used. Be embarrassed when it hits you.
Dair
–first hits out on frame 5-
Used as a spike mostly. Don’t be predictable coming up off of the edge because he can punish you with it. If the falco has been “spike happy” try going in from the side, go down and rise up far enough Falco won’t want to come get you.
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Fmash
–Hits on frame 16-18-
It’s used to tech chase or punish a predictable roll. It’ll only kill past 100%. Don’t worry too much over this one. Pound will beat it out. Just remember the hitbox on it is stupidly big, and on the backside. The ending lag is pretty hard on this attack. SH nair will be a good move to space.
–Hits on frame 16-18-
It’s used to tech chase or punish a predictable roll. It’ll only kill past 100%. Don’t worry too much over this one. Pound will beat it out. Just remember the hitbox on it is stupidly big, and on the backside. The ending lag is pretty hard on this attack. SH nair will be a good move to space.
Phantasm
This is one of Falco’s recovery moves. All attacks can hit through phantasm when timed correctly. Personally, I choose to use either pound or nair. If you it the nair, you can follow up with another nair or Fair depending on the percent. If it’s a higher percent the Fair should kill. Just know that Falco’s have a hard time getting back to the stage. Once you nair the phantasm they are going to try to do another one. Or at least drop down and try to use another one. Plan for this and punish it. This attack is the easiest to gimp Falco with.
Moves that kill:
1. Bair will kill from center stage of Final D at 135% without DI. It will kill offstage (while you are recovering) at 100%.
2. Fsmash will kill at 100% from center stage.
3. Usmash/Dacus will kill at 95%.
4. Utilt kills around the same time as Usmash.
Moves to kill with:
1. Utilt kills at 125%2. From center final D, Fair kills at 113%
3. Rest will kill at 72%
4. Fsmash will kill at 100%
5. Usmash will kill at 104%
6. Rolllout will kill at 75%
---Jigglypuff’s Advatages---
1.Punishing phantasm.
This is probably my favorite part of the matchup. Not only does this make the match more difficult for falco but it discourages falcos from chasing you on the sides of the stage. One bad screw up, regardless of perfent and they are dead.
2. Laser game.
Since we are an aerial character we can do well against the lasers. We can also duck below the lasers. They are still a pain but it’s something that every character has to deal with and we have a slight advantage over other characters.
3. Grab game.
Jigglypuff has great grab game. Her grab reach is awesome compared to other low tier characters and all throws do 10%, with 3% pummels. Punish short hopped Dairs or misplaces smashes with a backthrow and then punish them off the edge.
4. Grab release to death.
This is not as easy to do. But it’s useful. When Falco is short hopping his lasers if you can manage to dash grab him and hold him over the edge until he is grab released the only thing that he can do is fire-falco. The phantasm will be released underneath the stage so he will die. Time the fire falco correctly and edgehog him.
---Jiggly Vs Falco videos---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0E6U9U6Zps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeSdZu8ZHRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPs7zaHeOOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C9Uf95Ml_o
Me Vs Xaltis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9cN95BI_Ng
^^ More recent.
Feel free to discuss.