Match Up Rediscussion: Peach

[Kaffei]

Just drop it already Kaffei. If your looking for some technicality it doesn't change anything.

I didnt even knew Peach had a disjoint. Must look into this! *flies off on Lady Rainicorn to find the answers to everything*

It's clear what I'm looking for, read my previous post.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Ok. Just let's agree to drop this stupid subject.


Against peach, I know she's a very upclose fighter and i tend to find myself in my shield alot. Are there any options other than DS that outspeed Peach's usual, jab,grab, and dsmash game when up close?

 

[Zankoku]

Peach's fair has greater reach. Marth's fair (obviously) has greater disjointed range.

xxmoosexx, you normally want to stay outside of Peach's effective range because she does things quickly and her cooldown is next to nothing.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Peach's fair has greater reach. Marth's fair (obviously) has greater disjointed range.

xxmoosexx, you normally want to stay outside of Peach's effective range because she does things quickly and her cooldown is next to nothing.

Can marth do anything other than DS in close up situations that outspeed Peach's options?

Please list.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Also Dark, I'm not really sure D Tilt is such a great idea vs Marth considering his F Tilt/D Tilt outspeeds/outranges it and Peach's D Tilt causes her to lean forward to begin with...it just sounds like a chance for Marth to F Smash you. And even if the F Smash misses and you slide back and avoid it, what are you going to punish the F Smash with?

You leave Fsmash alone. That Move is hard to punish. Cause the min you go in, Marth can just up-B you. Only way you even think about punishing that move is if you are really close to him And Bair him. Fair is to slow and you will eat an up-B. Also, what you just said about the Dtilt you are at risk with every character like this, not just Marth. Dtilt is a hard moe to use. Can just dish it out when ever you want It takes smart use of it.And it isimportant to learn to space with it or else don't even bother using it period.

I agree with Shaya that Marth's ground game is definitly better against Peach's ground game which is why I personally would be in the air to punish the lag on Marth's moves whilst avoiding them or at least pulling up a Turnip and shielding and throwing it after Marth has used a move (but that goes for the ground and the air)

Peach has a hard time deal with Marth in the air. And it's where he starts most of his ****. If he gets alot of damage off, it's from the air. It's the same concept as fighting lucario. You wanna fight him on the ground and don't test his moves in the air. Peach players love the air too much. And this is why I tell them to lay off that. Characters like Marth, lucario and Falco don't play that. Marth has a 4 frame fair that he can dish out twice in one jump.Peach has no move in the air she can do twice with one jump. being in the air too much gets you ***** against Marth. This is why I was losing so much on Ninjalinks Marth for 30 games in a row. I always wanted to be in the air. and try to beat his moves. I decided to get off that typical game and fight him from the ground. Did much better.

If Marth goes in the air, Peach stays on the ground and fights him off with Turnips and Dash Attack. If Marth stays on the ground, Peach goes in the air and baits Fair or stays on the ground and counters stuff with Turnips. If Marth gets clusmy and Fairs her sheild right above her, she could jump out and Nair him I guess.

Ok. Just let's agree to drop this stupid subject.


Against peach, I know she's a very upclose fighter and i tend to find myself in my shield alot. Are there any options other than DS that outspeed Peach's usual, jab,grab, and dsmash game when up close?

No.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Aw poop. What is her fastest move? and how fast is it?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Her jab and it is 2 frames.

 

[Zankoku]

Don't let Peach get in range to hit you with her ground moves, unless it's from some jump-in. This much should be obvious because you outrange her on the ground and have nothing to gain from being point blank. In fact, it's a bad positioning for almost every one of Marth's matchups.

 

[Praxis]

Even matchup, 55:45 Marth at worst. Peach's fair and bair both outspace Marth's fair- Fair outranges it and similarly ends laglessly, Bair shifts her hitbox so it can punish a whiffed fair, and she can use float to outspace Marth.


Marth's nair gives her air game more trouble, but her stupidly aerially disjointed dash attack (you can detonate blocks on Green Greens without getting hurt) and fsmash can punish it.

I've played MikeHAZE, Havok, and Zex.

Peach gimps Marth (even at high levels) better than most of the cast, and Marth pressures her hard at the ledge. I'd actually say Marth gives Peach the most trouble in doubles, where she doesn't have the room to outspace him.

The real secret to this matchup is Peach's fsmash. Stutter stepping a fsmash backwards completely demolishes Marth's aerial spacing. I alternate between spacing aerials with float and grounded fsmashes; Marth can't get in well.

Oh, whiffed Dolphin Smash is a free 18% Peach bomber and setup into juggle And Peach's fair grants frame advantage on shield when spaced well, meaning that even a perfectly input Dolphin Slash will fail to punish it if we shield afterward.

 

[Zankoku]

Peach's fair would only have frame advantage if it's undecayed.

 

[**Havok**]

At first Marth seems to have the advantage because he can simply play like he does in every other matchup.

I think its 55-45 Marth.

If the peach can maintain out of Marth's range - counterattack, use the ground to gain on Marth's landing and punish via Nair OoS, Shield Grab etc Then it's very possible. Baiting Marth isn't too difficult unless he simply walks -- but you have turnips! It goes back and forth, Marth can get gimped, Peach can't, Marth has a bit more utility with SideB, peach doesnt, peach can float and use the space marth does so well in, Marth can limit her floating etc etc etc

 

[deepseadiva]

Can anyone prove to me that Peach's F-Air is longer than Marth's Fair?

There is visual proof... somewhere.

There was this youtube vid that was noted a long bit ago. The two characters were facing each other and fairing - Peach's fair hit, Marth's did not. Very simple, but I can't find it.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

There is visual proof... somewhere.

There was this youtube vid that was noted a long bit ago. The two characters were facing each other and fairing - Peach's fair hit, Marth's did not. Very simple, but I can't find it.

There's a link to it in the match up thread...which no one looks at it
Ironically though, the video has been removed apparantly for breaing copyright stuff or something? So it no longer exists

 

[_Keno_]

Peach's fair does outrange marth's, but it doesn't really matter since the frame advantage is so large. A marth will not get outspaced unless he is plainly stupid about his fairs. Some Marths just like to fair at open air near peach (sometimes twice in one jump), and if they are not retreating fairs (or at least the second one), marth WILL be punished.

As for edgeguarding, what exactly gimps marth? Do marths STILL not know how to swap/catch turnips or something?

 

[grimAuxiliatrix]

from the couple of friendlies i've had with Peachkid, i've gathered;
-Fair is very good, but will decay like hell. it's hard to not use though.
-if you get Utilted, you by default get turnip'd and nair/fair'd too
-offstage is an okay place to be. for peach. unless you're under her.
-Uthrow is a good option, as long as you can space a utilt well and don't get air dodge/dair *****. mindgame into utilt or uair, and ds is a good kill move.

 

[Praxis]

At first Marth seems to have the advantage because he can simply play like he does in every other matchup.

I think its 55-45 Marth.

If the peach can maintain out of Marth's range - counterattack, use the ground to gain on Marth's landing and punish via Nair OoS, Shield Grab etc Then it's very possible. Baiting Marth isn't too difficult unless he simply walks -- but you have turnips! It goes back and forth, Marth can get gimped, Peach can't, Marth has a bit more utility with SideB, peach doesnt, peach can float and use the space marth does so well in, Marth can limit her floating etc etc etc

I would agree with this.

The key point is, as you said, Marth gets to space as he normally does to shut Peach down. Peach has to significantly adjust her playstyle to fight Marth. Which means that, in the case of two players without matchup knowledge, Marth steamrolls Peach.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I would have to argue match ups change at mid and high levels of play

 

[_Keno_]

That is true, knight, but what we are looking for is the matchup at the higest level of play.

 

[Reizilla]

Broly lost to a Wifi Peach. 6-4 Peach.

 

[Mr-R]

who's broly ? * hides *

 

[Shaya]

Texas Marth.
Really nice guy, doesn't post much. Loves the challenge of playing marth.

 

[VibeSlyph]

Edit: Disregard this.