Heartstring
Smash Legend
foprget it, one of my amazing typo's as always, plus that was so long ago even i have no idea what i was saying. i think what i measnt was dk cant hit grounded characters with his u-smash
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Match up Export #14: Donkey Kong |Complete!!!
- Thread starter Conviction
- Start date
KillerJawz
...
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 4,285
But you said can hit D:.... Nvm then, it's all good ^^.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
you know how bad my typing is, getting can instead of cant is no biggie for me.
i occasinally get m mixed up wit hw
DK is mean =/
Started practicing Vs Will. Prolly gonna have a session again with him next week. But once he launches my *** of stage it's a huge hassle to get back 2 the edge.
His U-Bs and Bairs make getting a sweet spot insanely unsafe, usually resulting in me having to try and Shine stall till i can attempt a safe illusion unto the stage.
I also cannot edge guard him effectively. I can't chase him off the edge, i alway get stage spiked or something worse.
Usually forced to stay around the edge on stage and try and catch him on the way up, but DK's U-B recovery auto cancels into any move he wants went he touches the floor. ;(
It could be the year and a half leave from brawl, but Wills DK is murdering me hard.
Any advice?
Started practicing Vs Will. Prolly gonna have a session again with him next week. But once he launches my *** of stage it's a huge hassle to get back 2 the edge.
His U-Bs and Bairs make getting a sweet spot insanely unsafe, usually resulting in me having to try and Shine stall till i can attempt a safe illusion unto the stage.
I also cannot edge guard him effectively. I can't chase him off the edge, i alway get stage spiked or something worse.
Usually forced to stay around the edge on stage and try and catch him on the way up, but DK's U-B recovery auto cancels into any move he wants went he touches the floor. ;(
It could be the year and a half leave from brawl, but Wills DK is murdering me hard.
Any advice?
4Biddin
Smash Journeyman
60:40
Fox should be able to punish almost every single one of DK's choice of attack. Its really hard for me to fathom it being any closer than that.
Fox can combo DK very easily and also you should be able to juggle and punish all his landing with dash attack or shield grabs
Fox can of course camp DK hard along with being able to consistently kill DK this is a match up you should not find your self losing.
Fox should be able to punish almost every single one of DK's choice of attack. Its really hard for me to fathom it being any closer than that.
Fox can combo DK very easily and also you should be able to juggle and punish all his landing with dash attack or shield grabs
Fox can of course camp DK hard along with being able to consistently kill DK this is a match up you should not find your self losing.
Rizk18
Smash Lord
dk boards say 50-50
Conviction
Human Nature
LOL 50-50?? I don't think so. Can we get the DKs back in here?
crifer
Smash Lord
That 50:50 thing, was like a year or two ago.
Since I main both DK and Fox I know the MU inside out. Also I have two DK Mains in my Crew.
It´s at least 60:40 for Fox. Fox camps DK, DK approaches and eats a fair which does heavy damage. Fox can punish almost anything if the DK only slightly messes up his spacing, and we all know how good Fox can force mistakes. Once DK is in the air, he has a problem, juggling and regrabbing does it. The only thing that really gives Fox trouble is DK´s bair, if spamed correctly it can be tough to beat. If I play that MU as DK, I try too bair a lot and edgeguard Fox.
Believe me, it´s 60:40 for Fox.
Since I main both DK and Fox I know the MU inside out. Also I have two DK Mains in my Crew.
It´s at least 60:40 for Fox. Fox camps DK, DK approaches and eats a fair which does heavy damage. Fox can punish almost anything if the DK only slightly messes up his spacing, and we all know how good Fox can force mistakes. Once DK is in the air, he has a problem, juggling and regrabbing does it. The only thing that really gives Fox trouble is DK´s bair, if spamed correctly it can be tough to beat. If I play that MU as DK, I try too bair a lot and edgeguard Fox.
Believe me, it´s 60:40 for Fox.
Robfox
Smash Lord
um yea DK sucks
TY
Will + Cable of course make him look good wit thier airdodge MGz but I mean really
He's kinda slow
No projectile
tilt combos are easy to get out of
60:40 Fox @ minimum
TY
Will + Cable of course make him look good wit thier airdodge MGz but I mean really
He's kinda slow
No projectile
tilt combos are easy to get out of
60:40 Fox @ minimum
Neon!
Smash Lord
lol at airdodge mindgames, he has plenty of those as well as one of the best spacing zones in the game. He has the ability to live longer than anyone in the cast and has some of the best/safest killing options.
Fox vs Dk is still 50:50. Yes dk is forced to approach just like in every other matchup but his approaching options are not limited by the lazers. Fox can deal plenty of damage with dair and set up great combos but he has a hard time getting inside dk's zone considering his large grab range, fast/long ranged tilts and bair. Dk definitly wins in terms of edgeguarding considering how well he can limit fox's options. Fox's fair is not nearly as useful as you presume and his ability to combo dk is only slightly better, if not on par with dk's ability to combo fox.
Most recent set I could find of this matchup, a good example of how it should be played though probably not the best. I feel like both players made too many mistakes in the first match.
KTAR 3: Nakat (Fox) vs Will (DK) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOp6BTT9gKw
KTAR 3: Nakat (Fox) vs Will (DK) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRbm0J6sgpg&feature=related
Conviction
Human Nature
So you are saying our ability to stall in the air doesn't factor into stopping juggling? You don't have and form of stalling and your Dair isn't exactly the best for stopping attacks from below.
We don't just Dair to get inside character's zones. Why stay on the ground to face your tilts when I can mock you in the air. The only real threat in the air I have to worry about is your Bair.
We don't just Dair to get inside character's zones. Why stay on the ground to face your tilts when I can mock you in the air. The only real threat in the air I have to worry about is your Bair.
I was messing with Will on AiB 
and he left me this
"The matchup might be in Fox's favor, but it is by no means unwinnable. If anything I'd say it's 55:45 in Fox's favor because honestly? The only way you are killing DK at reasonable percents is with an up smash which becomes really predictable. It is really fast and can be used as a punish as well, if Fox is willing to do that in order to capitalize on all of DK's openings- I think it's a lot harder. More fox's should do that, because the lasers refresh his moveset anyway."
Hehe i hope he doesn't uppercut me IRL the next time he sees me for quoting his shout outs!
Spam them lasers and up smash? :OOO
Say nothing to Will xD
and he left me this "The matchup might be in Fox's favor, but it is by no means unwinnable. If anything I'd say it's 55:45 in Fox's favor because honestly? The only way you are killing DK at reasonable percents is with an up smash which becomes really predictable. It is really fast and can be used as a punish as well, if Fox is willing to do that in order to capitalize on all of DK's openings- I think it's a lot harder. More fox's should do that, because the lasers refresh his moveset anyway."
Hehe i hope he doesn't uppercut me IRL the next time he sees me for quoting his shout outs!
Spam them lasers and up smash? :OOO
Say nothing to Will xD
Neon!
Smash Lord
Fox's shine helps him avoid our utilt juggling, but dk can still combo him well with dtilt and form a semi wall of pain with bair. yes dk gets juggled in this matchup just like in every other one but he does have a few options to avoid this, side-b is decent at stalling but his best option is to reverse charge his punch mid-air so that he can protect his landing with bair. Fox has better options stalling wise, but basing matchups off of juggling ability is erronious. Dk vs marth is even and marth is leagues ahead of fox when it comes to juggling.
NAKAT
Smash Champion
It is definitely even guys lol.
Conviction
Human Nature
I'm sorry I just don't see how it is even. DK's Bair isn't that safe as you think it is.
It's only slightly in foxes favor. There is no giant advantage for fox.
KillerJawz
...
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 4,285
We had a similar problem to this when the Samus MU was discussed. Too much theorycraft, not enough irl experience. Which good DKs have you guys played recently? And won?
I've played 1... and got smashed...
I think you have the best point. They hang people on teamliquid.net (starcraft2 prosite) for theorycrafting without videos or solid evidence LOL. I mean HANG.
NAKAT
Smash Champion
I beat and lost to Cable and I also lost to Will.
Conviction
Human Nature
I've beaten and lost to Mecalis (lol I forgot how to spell his tag name)
DKwill
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,232
- Location
- Planking the ledge 185 times over.
- 3DS FC
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Hey guys. Sup =) Let me go back and find a post I may have made on the DK/Fox matchup and see how relevant it is to the current metagame. Probably pretty relevant, I'll just have to amend a few things I'm sure.
Edit: I'll try to look later since I'm heading out to Hofstra to train tonight (anyone in the area feel free to come join xD). FreakingMethodiC will be joining me as well, so maybe he'll have more to say on that matchup in a bit =P
If anything I'll come back here and make a brand new post on my current thoughts on the matchup ratio.
Edit: I'll try to look later since I'm heading out to Hofstra to train tonight (anyone in the area feel free to come join xD). FreakingMethodiC will be joining me as well, so maybe he'll have more to say on that matchup in a bit =P
If anything I'll come back here and make a brand new post on my current thoughts on the matchup ratio.
WIll b trolling me >.>
Now people gonna be asking how hard my arse was kicked. Maybe we can get some vids provided that i don't get 3 stocked because of my 1 1/2 year break. (Actually sounds like a good idea. Vids for the boards ! D
KillerJawz
...
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 4,285
You are the only person who now has a say in this MU. Do you happen to have any videos of the MU?
NAKAT
Smash Champion
My set vs Will is on youtube. I didn't know the MU and Will is an amazing DK so I did well. I beat Cable pretty solidly about 2-3 weeks ago and last sat he beat me. I really feel this MU is even.
Robfox
Smash Lord
That up B on BF REALLY effed up ur momentum nd flow
you probably could've won if it didn't happen
EDIT: @ KJ's - I played graperape N like the end of September that was my most recent DK. Both games were 3 stock low percentage (Fox game 1 Sonic game 2 for LOL's) I've friendlied some DK's after but that was a Tourney match so...
Conviction
Human Nature
So my matches against the DK my area is void?
XxAlphaxXGhaxCrew
Smash Apprentice
Ok, I know I'm really late..but I have sooo much exp fighting DK..
Honestly, if your fighting a real good DK they can be a bit tricky...
I fight this is DK named gamma a lot in this match-up...and range definitely kicks my butt...
lasers are your best friend, but don't ALWAYS help...DK's shield-grab can also be soooo annoying...This is one match-up I'm soooo used to...Although, on the fox side DK is a huge target and fox is way quicker...just lots of forward airs and don't make it an edge battle because DK will win... :/
I would have to say 60-40 fox, or 55-45 depending on the DK...
Honestly, if your fighting a real good DK they can be a bit tricky...
I fight this is DK named gamma a lot in this match-up...and range definitely kicks my butt...
lasers are your best friend, but don't ALWAYS help...DK's shield-grab can also be soooo annoying...This is one match-up I'm soooo used to...Although, on the fox side DK is a huge target and fox is way quicker...just lots of forward airs and don't make it an edge battle because DK will win... :/
I would have to say 60-40 fox, or 55-45 depending on the DK...
Well i got no vids vs will from last night. Only played a few matches vs him with Fox(playing my other characters getting a feel for the game again). Mainly him murdering me till 6am...
Somethings i figured i'd share tho... avoid yoshi's island at all cost vs DK, he's got too many tricks on that stage it's painful.
Attempting to sweet spot the ledge is a nightmare vs DK. Invincible U-Bs from DK stop all forms of recovery and knocks you back out and down. DK has a fairly strong edge guard game vs fox, while at the same time you really can't go off the edge vs him.
Never challenge head on U-Bs from the ledge... they auto cancel into anymove he wants and usually stops most attacks.
You cannot over aggro a smart DK, you need to play it smart and camp him pretty hard.
I was playing very aggro last night and it's not a great idea, being that alot of his moves ae just going 2 stuff fair, etc...
Play it safe... when in doubt lame it out. DK kills fast...
I have quite a few things that i've noted but it would be a long list, and prolly only Will specific xP Just wish i was less aggressive... Been playing too much melee.
EDIT: I don't really have anything good to say from reading this xP. I think the match is even if not in foxes favor by a small margin. When i get back into gear and start playing better (hopefully in a month or two) i could accurately gauge the match up better. But i'll be playing will a crap-ton in the future since he's helping me get back into gear. Thx will XP
Somethings i figured i'd share tho... avoid yoshi's island at all cost vs DK, he's got too many tricks on that stage it's painful.
Attempting to sweet spot the ledge is a nightmare vs DK. Invincible U-Bs from DK stop all forms of recovery and knocks you back out and down. DK has a fairly strong edge guard game vs fox, while at the same time you really can't go off the edge vs him.
Never challenge head on U-Bs from the ledge... they auto cancel into anymove he wants and usually stops most attacks.
You cannot over aggro a smart DK, you need to play it smart and camp him pretty hard.
I was playing very aggro last night and it's not a great idea, being that alot of his moves ae just going 2 stuff fair, etc...
Play it safe... when in doubt lame it out. DK kills fast...
I have quite a few things that i've noted but it would be a long list, and prolly only Will specific xP Just wish i was less aggressive... Been playing too much melee.
EDIT: I don't really have anything good to say from reading this xP. I think the match is even if not in foxes favor by a small margin. When i get back into gear and start playing better (hopefully in a month or two) i could accurately gauge the match up better. But i'll be playing will a crap-ton in the future since he's helping me get back into gear. Thx will XP
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Definatley 50-50. You just have to be a good DK and not scrub one really. I've played MAR1 and it's really hard to camp against a good aggro DK. I really think this should be rediscussed.
Conviction
Human Nature
NAKAT has a vid of going OD camping on Will and winning by a fairly large margin.
chaos_Leader
Smash Lord
I second the need to re-discuss.
My principal practice may be a Diddy main, but his DK is almost as irritating to play against. I've had plenty of high-level matchup practice over the last month or so, and with video footage to boot.
Conviction
Human Nature
*sigh*
brb with Nakat's vid.
*Arwing swoops back in*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF_XQMau23I
You can watch the whole set if you want.
*jumps back in and takes off*
brb with Nakat's vid.
*Arwing swoops back in*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF_XQMau23I
You can watch the whole set if you want.
*jumps back in and takes off*
Thats wifi though.
Conviction
Human Nature
Damn Chuee with the info.
I trust you people to come in here with info about offline play...come on dog
I trust you people to come in here with info about offline play...come on dog
FightAdamantEevee
Smash Lord
DK is 164:0 with lucas so he's obviously at least 100:0 with fox
Conviction
Human Nature
FightAdamantEevee
Smash Lord
Don't worry though Iblis, it's okay! Never give up, trust your instincts! Take my advice and you will be taking on Donkey Kongs like they're nothingggg
Conviction
Human Nature
Can I JV 6 stock them?
FightAdamantEevee
Smash Lord
Like Kevin Garentt, anything is possible
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Props to Nakat, but didn't he also say that the MU is 50-50?