Match-Up Discussion: King Dedede

[Meru.]

Discuss! Stay nice though, you know the rules.

King Dedede

inb4dontgetgrabbed​

 

[Gea]

One of the few characters that can edgeguard us well or force us to recover in different ways. Loooong matches usually too. Must be very, very patient.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Been waiting for this one

DeDeDe is very tedious to fight. Killing him is not easy - he weighs a ton and his vertical momentum cancelling (via fastfall Dair) is quite frankly ridiculius. Not only that, his massive grab range means you need to be extremely precise and outspace him (usually with Fair so that stales your kill move) constantly

The two things you need to watch out for in this match is DeDeDe's Grab and Bair

DeDeDe's grab range is massive - Fair and Jab must be perfectly spaced so you don't get grabbed and even then you risk getting grabbed if DeDeDe powerhsields either of them. Whilst she's tricky to chaingrab, Peach can still be D Throw chaingrabbed by DeDeDe. This not only means you take a bucket load of damge if he's got lots of room to do the chaingrab but also forces you offstage and onto the ledge which is really, really irritating because you then have to go through the process of getting back onstage and avoid DeDeDe's giant/powerful F Smash, long range F Tilt, an aerial or even another grab. DeDeDe's grabs won't kill you but they're a big contributer to him getting the kill on you

The real crunch in the match up is DeDeDe's Bair. Its a big fat wall of priority thats very hard to get past. Think Peach Bair camping Wario and replace Floating with multiple jumps. Oh and make the Bair larger too. Thats DeDeDe's Bair camping for you, It beats out Turnips and will either beat out or trade hits with aerials. The trade off is nearly always worse - DeDeDe's Bair is pretty strong. Its also a good OoS option if DeDeDe has his back to Peach, meaning he can't shield grab her

So how do you get past his Bair? You punish it. Its got some nasty landing lag which you can F Tilt OoS or Turnip throw OoS IIRC. Alternativly, if you're feeling bold you can run underneath him and jump up and Nair him to smack him as Bair is finishing. NEVER EVER TRY TO CONTEND DIRECTLY WITH HIS BAIR. YOU WILL ALWAYS LOSE. If you're in the air and trying to return to the stage, simply move away from DeDeDe because his air movement is horrific. Don't try and hit him back because he can use his Bair too often and it has a hitbox for too long for you to safely tackle it directly

Other important stuff:
- DI Up rapidly if he tries to catch you with a Uair
- When hitting his shield, move away so he can't Up Tilt OoS you
- Don't recover predictably. If you always drop below the stage to Up + B sweetspot the ledge, DeDeDe can simply fast fall a Fair and kill you
- Make it as difficult as possible for him to recover. Don't let him grab the ledge, make sure you get there first or are at least close to the ledge so you keep your options open, Even if its clear that DeDeDe can recover via Up + B back onto the stage without the ledge, grab onto it. Time it so you get invincibilty when DeDeDe is in attacking range. The only way he can safely use an aerial whilst recovering is combining it with a jump, otherwise he plummets like a brick and dies. You have a massive opportunity to punish DeDeDe with the likes of an aerial or Up Smash when DeDeDe uses his Up + B, don't waste it
- Occasional D Smashes can mess up a shield grab happy DeDeDe
- Waddle Throw sucks but Gordos can really flip the tables because they kill quite early. Watch out for them. As for punish Waddle Throw, unless you're close, don't be tempted to Forward Glide Toss when the Waddle hits your shield because the Turnip may either miss or be beat out by the Waddle thats just bounced off your shield. You'll end up sliding into DeDeDe's grab range which isn't good

Match up mentality: Camp with Turnips and keep running away. Get the lead and time him out if you need to. DeDeDe has very linear approach options (run, shield and grab lol) and decent defensive wall options vs Peach so make him come to you. If you need to get some damage in, get a Turnip in hand to help you and apply damage/shield pressure when you start to get close to his grab range

But seriously, get the lead and run away and Bone Walk and Glide Toss. This is one match where Free pulling could be useful, although I'm not sure if thats because DeDeDe didn't know what it was lol. He could chase after you and grab you as you slide away if he's close enough I guess


Edit: As for a ratio, I honestly think Peach is at a very slight disadvantage because of how well DeDeDe can set up a defensive wall to keep her out. Not to mention his wall has more power behind it than Peach's

 

[Metatitan]

Killing DDD is hard because of his weight but he's easier to kill than say snake because Fair simply isn't as useful against him (so it tends to be fresh/near fresh when it comes to killing %'s).

 

[z00ted]

This matchup is even and is super fun :D

 

[Gea]

I don't think it's even just for the sole fact that one mistake can net us 50% and afterwards usually force us to approach. Otherwise it's not THAT bad. It's so ****ing fun grabbing a DDD out of his up B and pummel releasing him over and over.

Ill, have you ever played Fogo? If he's coming to HOBO (he said he was) you could MM him. He's a great DDD and a fun as hell guy too.

 

[z00ted]

Most people think its in DDD's favor.
Yes I want to meet this Fogo guy, I haven't ever lost to a DDD.

 

[Nicole]

I think this matchup is SLIGHTLY in peach's favor. you rack damage on him like nothing else. He is like a slower snake with purple pikmin...and the occasional bomb.

You shouldn't get grabbed much. Space and dont land. if he's facing you, he's not going to do anything against a floated, retreating fair on his shield. beware of pulling turnips...make sure you're far enough away. a chaingrab across the stage to possible edgeguard is pretty brutal.

something cool, easy, and effective that you can do against ddd is to sh dair on his shield, float nair and do the second hit of nair. this usually shieldpokes but if it doesn't you can grab or dsmash or something. just land behind him. always land behind him, if you're landing.

you can trade hits with his bair. and that's not a bad thing if he's at 200% and you're at 14%.

his dair is pretty gay, so you wont get alot of uairs in. just stay to the side and fair/bair.

nair is excellent in this matchup. especially OOS or to punish his gay spotdodge. sh dair works to punish his spotdodge as well.

you can catch him with usmash if you bait him to be in the air. do it with turnips or yourself, heh. you can catch him with a fullhop dair sometimes.

55:45 peach, i'd say. i dont care if no one agrees with me :/

fogo's mad cool!
actually...most ddd mains are pretty cool. i wonder why that is?

 

[Eddie G]

/Basically everything Nicole said on the MU is what I would have said, minus the shieldpoking with Nair part. Very cool bit of info there.

I can't wait to MM C0n3y and T-Dawg.

 

[Silly Kyle]

I've fought Atomsk and this matchup was insanely hard!! In theory, I think it's close to 50-50, maybe DDD's favor 55-45. Nothing to hard... I wish there were more DDD players here in AZ. We only have one or two that I know of...

 

[LanceStern]

I usually tend to stay near the ledge so that I minimize any damage their chain grab does to me...

Is that smart?

 

[Gea]

You have nowhere to go when they start bairing.

 

[z00ted]

In my opinion a defensive Peach doesn't work here.
Always keep in his face and never allow him to approach you.

Keeping your fair fresh helps a ton.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I always thought that Dedede wasnt really good against Peach. Really the only problem is getting the kill on him.

But the only Dedede I played was C-Beef so I wouldnt know much.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Turnip drop and downthrow turnip in this match is crazy good. This mu has Excel Zero all over it. Do we ever put this info in the other threads that ask for it? Like the Peach guide?

 

[Xyless]

Dedede is my most frustrating matchup, mostly because he really only needs bair, cg, and utilt to mess with Peach's options.

I would guess that being aggressive would be more beneficial to this matchup than defensive. Just make sure you jab the waddle dees he throws out if he does.

 

[Eddie G]

Turnip drop and downthrow turnip in this match is crazy good. This mu has Excel Zero all over it. Do we ever put this info in the other threads that ask for it? Like the Peach guide?

Hell yeah it is lol. So is occasionally throwing a turnip upward over him as "spacing insurance" as you go in to pressure his shield.

 

[Xyless]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJKMSBgSLsM

A video of me losing to a scrub Dedede a few weeks ago. I did pretty darn bad against him, partly because I'm so used to minus Dedede now (no johns).

I gotta learn to stop trying to force the CG on Dedede. But reading through here already has helped with mentality (turnip dropping in particular), so I'll be working on that MU a lot more when I get back to school next week.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I would guess that being aggressive would be more beneficial to this matchup than defensive. Just make sure you jab the waddle dees he throws out if he does.

Good heavens I force them to go behind d3 and peach bomb. You side b the crazy out of them. Watch what happens.

 

[Xyless]

Actually I side B them as well, whenever there's an opening to.

Do anything to the WDs, just don't let them be ignored. They are amazing at unstaling Peach's attacks.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Xyless...there was 20 seconds left on the clock - why on Earth didn't you just run away as far as you could when you saw DeDeDe had stuck himself far away?

Turnip dropping is really effective against a DeDeDe who loves running underneath your aerials to shield grab you

Oh and DeDeDe's F Tilt is a really really stupid move in this match up - its pretty quick and beats out your ground moves/hits you if you misspace an aerial (really far away so it doesn't hit DeDeDe that is)


I prefer to hover outside of DeDeDe attack range and then its a guessing game for both sides from there as to what moves to use. If I need a Turnip, I Bone Walk away. It depends on what you define as 'agressive' and 'defensive' as to how you play this match up

Once I get the stock/percent lead though, I run away and camp

 

[Xyless]

Xyless...there was 20 seconds left on the clock - why on Earth didn't you just run away as far as you could when you saw DeDeDe had stuck himself far away?

I didn't think about the clock until I got hit by the Gordo, since I was so determined to get the damage caught back up. Right when I got hit by the Gordo, I glanced at the clock and went NOOOOOOO

I had just gotten the % lead too

To be honest, though, I haven't Brawled in a long time, so I felt REALLY rusty against some of the characters. My first match against this guy was pretty bad because I was expecting tons of WDs and dash attacks. I had to readjust myself, which sucked.

 

[AllyKnight]

DDD wins 6:4 vs Peach. All i have to do is bair.

~Atomsk

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

But your bair loses to our shutter step fsmash and our up tilt if that's all your gonna do. Now that I think about it someone told me all snake has to do is uptilt peach and he wins. I found it stupid funny. Unless you mean off stage then yeah bair is all you need but we still come back. If you want to bash peach to the point of saying bair is all you need please be mote detailed on what else, where, or how it's happening. Thank you

 

[Brawlin]

DDD wins 6:4 vs Peach. All i have to do is bair.

yea against computer controlled peach.

 

[Gea]

Bair shuts use down pretty well was his point. You all act like he is just going to bair in place forever.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'm actually inclined to kind of agree with Atomsk lol

The worst thing about DeDeDe's Bair camping is that its very difficult to tell when he's actually going to crash down and Bair you due to his multiple jumps and extremely fast fall speed

Bair is difficult to get past because it outprioritizes everything Peach can do directly. You have to punish it

 

[Xyless]

I'm actually inclined to kind of agree with Atomsk lol

The worst thing about DeDeDe's Bair camping is that its very difficult to tell when he's actually going to crash down and Bair you due to his multiple jumps and extremely fast fall speed

Bair is difficult to get past because it outprioritizes everything Peach can do directly. You have to punish it

This.

There are other options Dedede could hypothetically do, but when Peach is far enough away, then there really isn't much reason not to just spam bair while slowly approaching.

 

[Tmacc]

As a D3 main, I have to disagree with you, Nicole. I think D3 wins this MU at LEAST 55-45. Either way (not a fan of the numbers), D3 has the advantage. Both D3 and Peach have very distinct strengths.

Peach can rack damage, apply great shield pressure, and has a very frustrating projectile that helps her zone very well.
D3 has the offstage advantage, bair, grab range+chaingrab, great kill power, and an incredible knack for living to 180+ many lives.
However, this match-up for Peach is ALL about spacing on D3's shield and beig patient when getting inside D3s zone. As Nicole said, NEVER land near to/in front of the D3. I rarely get grabs on Nicole, who I play a lot. She will float, dair my shield for pressure, and either perfectly space a fair on my shield or fall nair to shieldpoke, with other mix ups. The point is, it's almost his and run. Get in, give the damage you can, then play safe and respace, rinse and repeat.
Some things that can help in this MU:
-don't be predictable with your floats. Peach has a strong ground game too; use that to your advantage, keep the D3 on his toes. Otherwise, you'll hit bair city.
-use turnips, ALWAYS. they mess with D3, in my opinion, a lot
-JAB; seriously, this is a great move, and is a great set up. it's a great move to use if you feel in trouble or pressures
-to reiterate: NEVER LAND BY D3
-recover high if possible; don't get caught below the plain of the stage when D3 has the edge etc
usmash goes through D3's landing upb
-many D3s dont CG Peach right; you have to buffered runnin shield grab her...if they don't do that, or they mess up, jab goes beats it (many of you know this I assume), so your best option when getting Cged is the spam jab, not spot dodge or some dumb **** like that
-if you are at high damage, try to AVOID approaching with a head-level float; uptilt will beat you. also, if you are predictable with float, it's possibly for D3 to simply roll behind you right when he expects you to float and uptilt...as I said, DONT BE PREDICTABLE WITH YOUR FLOATS!
-overtilt. it's a great move.

This is a MU I know pretty well, I think. I'm really confident against Peaches. In the end, I feel its in D3's favor overall, more so if the players are unfamiliar with each other. If the players play a lot, I feel it's more evenish and the better player will win relatively consistantly.

Good luck, hope this helped a bit!

 

[Xyless]

I've noticed that turnips actually do mess with Dedede's game quite a bit at times. Getting him to catch it when he does his bair means he's going to have to get rid of the turnip somehow, and that could be a window for you to attack.

 

[deepseadiva]

I've noticed that turnips actually do mess with Dedede's game quite a bit at times. Getting him to catch it when he does his bair means he's going to have to get rid of the turnip somehow, and that could be a window for you to attack.

Oooo, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of that, but that's sounds really good.

Also, when you do get chaingrabbed our best option is to spam a to jab, right? I remember reading that Raz said this was bad because we might get dsmashed or something, but in my experience jab always beats it to the punch.

Also, you can avoid that last CG near the edge of the stage by holding diagonally down - you'll slide off and grab the ledge. Just fyi.

 

[Xyless]

Oooo, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of that, but that's sounds really good.

Also, when you do get chaingrabbed our best option is to spam a to jab, right? I remember reading that Raz said this was bad because we might get dsmashed or something, but in my experience jab always beats it to the punch.

Also, you can avoid that last CG near the edge of the stage by holding diagonally down - you'll slide off and grab the ledge. Just fyi.

I always spam jab unless I'm by the edge, and then I do what you say (hold away and down). It's useful to avoid the potential dtilt followup.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I hate how I never know these sorts of things <.<

 

[z00ted]

I love how I never know these things- still do decent, and now know I can do even better with new knowledge :D

 

[Fogo]

Most people think its in DDD's favor.
Yes I want to meet this Fogo guy, I haven't ever lost to a DDD.

Dangit, had I known about the matchup discussion I would have gone. Next time we can mm if you want!

And thanks Gea & Nicole

 

[z00ted]

Definitely man!
Oh.. and I just got some matches of my Peach vs Jerm's DDD, I'll get them uploaded later.

 

[Zepher Noron]

In my opinion a defensive Peach doesn't work here.
Always keep in his face and never allow him to approach you.

Keeping your fair fresh helps a ton.

Being defensive on DDD does work. And is her best best on this match up. You can atucally Camp better that he does. And the cool down time on waddle dee tosses is slow.And if he wants to camp, you can jab them to refresh your moves.

You can actually get at DDD hard with her camping. DDD is not fast on the ground. Abuse bone walking and free pulles (Manually) You know how hard it is for him to hit/grab you? You can space moves then reverse free pull or bone walk and camp even better. He is gonna have problems since he is slow on both air and ground.

Peach has good frame advantage on shield. And it works best on big characters like DDD. So camping him and playing defensive is a must on him. You camp and play D to abuse shield and get damage. then when you can, get grabs and rack up damage. Then repeat till he is at the % he should die. Then go and finish him off.

If you pressure him correctly (check your frame data), DDD can not grab you.

DDD Bair. if you see him abusing it, Don't test it. Leave it alone. You are not obligated to try and beat that move. Yet alone go into it or even take the hit. Now this is all if you are ground, and in most cases can apply if you in the air. He has to touch the floor some time. Just get away from him. If you gonna be near the ledge or pinned to a corner, turnip cancel. And stay in your position till he touches the floor, and use that turnip to follow up and get away from the corner or even lead to a set up. But don't test that move at all. If you wanna be slick, you can toad it if he is just coming at you with bair.

His air speed is slow, so when you grab him, toss him up and turnip juggle him. Then follow up for more damage.

Also due to his air speed, don't be afraid to edguard him. You can actually go off stage and do some slick edgeuards to him. Really if he is low on jumps. Then he has to up-B, which if you are quick enough, can abuse.

Again, even for characters like DDD or even Ganon, an aggressive Peach is not hard to stop. And you seriously don't wanna risk this with DDD, cause you will get chain grabbed. Or take alot of damage from his spacing.

I always thought this match up was even. But starting to think that Peach might slighty win it. Due to the fact that if Peach is constantly bone walking/ free pulling on DDD and camping, I dont see how he is gonna stop that so well. Which in this case, he will be approaching Peach to try and stop it. And DDD is not all that fast. Also we camp better than he does, even without the bone walk/free pull. And low cool down time from tossing his minions. So imagine if some actually started abusing that on him hard.

 

[Meru.]

Yeah imo its has always been even but it just seems to be a tad better for Peach, aka 55-45. Imo neither agressive or defensive is bad, they can both be used amazingly vs DDD. I dont find it hard to create openings vs DDD at all and when you have found one, you can pressure him really hard.

His Bair is overrated, its has good start-up and range, but its not lagless. His air speed is poor. He does have multiple jumps but he has to land sometime. Also, turnips > Bair, or sometimes even Ftilt (be sure to hit with this one, it has some lag) and Fsmash (its safe, but it does have start-up). Remember that it can shut down simple float approaches though.

His UpB can also be punished by an Usmash, if he hasn't sweetspotted the ledge.

 

[deepseadiva]

"slave babies"

ohgodlol

 

[Peachkid]

"slave babies"

ohgodlol

May my influence stay ever prevalent in the land of colorado!