Match-Up Discussion #5! King Dedede

[Steel]

holy ****...

 

[cutter]

dedede has slow kill moves.

If you think DDD's Utilt and Bair are slow; I'd hate to find out what your definition of "fast" is.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

@_@


I usually don't post here because some of the idiocy annoys me and it's too troublesome to waste the time... but.. this is a favor, so...


After playing against several DDD's I've concluded that this match is 60-40 in DDD's favor.


The main problem in this match is the ****ing trigger button, yes, the trigger button and nothing else. Against Marth, a shielding DDD is a safe DDD.


I know most of the theoretical arguments that no one applies to the actual pace-of-a-match will be "You can space down tilt, a spaced f-air is safe" etc. As both of those attacks stand as they are. they are safe, however it seems to be fairly easy with DDD (probably because shielding with DDD is safer than other characters shielding against Marth) for DDD to powershield both of these into a grab. Not to mention DDD can super armor grab you out of down tilt if it isn't fully tippered (DDD dashing in with a shield can throw the timing of when you should put your d-tilt out, I see this happen to Marths all of the time)


Shield breaker should not be used as an argument, it isn't safe unless it... actually breaks the shield, otherwise you will most likely end up taking a CG


CG = 30+ damage across the entire stage into an edge guard where DDD can:


- Perfect shield/Shield a ledge jumped (just X button on the ledge) F-air into a back air or up air
- Shield a ledge hopped n-air/f-air into grab the other way
(drop down + second jump aerial)
- Hold shield and turn around and grab if you air dodge on
- Grab you if you stand up
- Down tilt you if they react to you jumping on (Atomsk is good at this, M2k even better)
- Back air stage spike you if you try being cute w/ drop down to up-b to refresh ledge invincibility


I could go on for days, but I won't.. cause I'm lazy.. and I don't actually care roflx


Main problems with this match:
- DDD lives the longest against Marth than any other character in the game, and sometimes twice as long as you
- He can CG you across the stage for 30% and put you in Marth's worst possible position, at least against DDD (Up tilt kills at 97ish fresh)
- When you're attemping to return, it's insultingly easy for DDD to chase you with back airs and gimp your jump, leaving you with your ****ty Up-b to recover
- His gay shielding, sidestepping, rolling into buffered perfect shield bull**** can compete with Marth's shield pressure


Yes, I only named what DDD can do because the match is 60-40 in DDD's favor

suck me **** rofl


k shower time pls

 

[Remzi]

*Chants Neos Name*

 

[Steel]

neo just ***** all of you

*changes the ratio

 

[∫unk]

i thought you changed it a day or so ago

i will lol if these ppl change their ratio because neo said so

and i thought you were going to do the **** post steel

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

i thought you changed it a day or so ago

i will lol if these ppl change their ratio because neo said so

and i thought you were going to do the **** post steel

What do you mean "these people?"

 

[Steel]

ed it

 

[VietGeek]

I ****ing love you NEO.

I love you as much as an Asian boy can to a black man.

<3<3<3

No homo.

*insert more fanboism.

 

[Xisin]

I don't see it... this match isnt as hard as the mk match up. and imo based easier than the snake match ups. your post pretty much says marth gets ledge trapped easily by dedede... but isnt that the case when hes against most characters? :/ his options suck off the ledge period. He does get put into that bad position by dedede. you didnt really put what marth can do to dedede off the stage which are few things

- you can spike dedede out of his up-b not during the rise but rather on start up. he makes a small stop and with proper timing its an easy spike.

- he flies but he only has 4 jumps compared to the rest plus he's fat. meaning easy aerials while you are off the stage he also travels slow and as steel has brought up several times he is very easy to tipper a nair on for the kill.

- Marth can ledge trap king Dedede juat as well, standing at proper spacing you can punish his get up attack with up-b, ledge hopped dair are handled by up b out of shield, he doesnt ledge stall nearly as well as mk does. for the most part if you guess what option he does you can send him right back off the stage to reset the edge guarding situation. Dedede has issues recovering vs marth while hes on the stage.

- the on stage game theres a few moves to worry about - most notably the CG, then up tilt, if you get hit by up tilt odds are you probably screwed up. Keep in mind while dedede can chaingrab marth he is also one of harder chars for dedede to CG. sometimes you can up-b out of it, sometimes king dedede will simply let you out of his cg to check what you do. Yes... he can camp, you can swat down the waddles or shield through them the only notable projectile he has are the gordos. he has a very good spot dodge but being the fatty he his you can shield poke him rather easily.

- from my experience this match up is primarily about getting the other guy off the stage and keeping them there. marth can actualyl set a pretty nice juggle trap on king dedede while he is in the air while the king pretty much controls the ground game. both characters have a hard time getting back to the stage against one another, but while you rack up damage on king dedede he can outright gimp you, which is a bad thing.

the problem im having is you guys are setting this fight right on the difficulty of the mk match up which... i don;t see. if you can explain that one then go for it.

 

[VietGeek]

They're difficult in different ways.

Plus Dedede can easily trap us than we can do to him. And the CG isn't exactly hard to do if you practice. Heck there's a certain D3 in my region who doesn't give a crap about practicing the CG and can still **** due to camping and ledgetraps, which D3 can easily set-up for.

Sure Marth sucks offstage but D3 can get him to such ledge quite easily lol. It just takes 1 grab. 15 seconds.

I don't need to explain more imo. This match-up is pretty cleared up atm. Most of this is just - "Hey we can't have this ratio it's the same as w/ MK."

I assure you if that weren't the case you'd all be like - "Yeah Steel you're right man. Thanks NEO you're the best. LOL Viet you suck. Junk, mad homo son, etc."

 

[Remzi]

The MK and D3 matchups arent the same. Marth vs MK is (should be) 65:35.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

i find that if the D3 is smart enough it can be just as hard as the MK match-up IMO

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

i thought you changed it a day or so ago

i will lol if these ppl change their ratio because neo said so

and i thought you were going to do the **** post steel

I've probably played the match more and against the highest level DDD's (Azen, M2K, Chillin, Atomsk) than any other Marth. And that isn't an arrogant statement, it's more than likely true rofl

Wouldn't be much to lol about, I'm not biased about the matches Marth wins or loses


Marth vs Snake is really style dependant


Match up ratios in brawl should be taken lightly because of the possibility of baiting and taking bait


Marth vs Snake (Snake utilizing grenades when appropriate but still approaching) 50 50


Marth vs Snake (Snake grenade camping the entire time and baiting you into shielding and approaching, literally never approaching) 60 40 Snake


Marth vs MK (Marth camping and baiting MK into approaches 60 40 MK)

Marth vs MK (MK also camping and trapping Marth, counter attacking his approaches with his highly prioritized b-moves. Marth can't really 'trap' MK) 65 35 MK


It's really dependant on whos baiting and whos attacking sometimes, it's hard to call **** so easily. I think the ratios should be decided based on each character being played as gayly and boring as possible

 

[∫unk]

good read neo good read

but terrible DI

edit: that's why i also think it's stage dependent some stages make approaching easier or force people to move around from their camping

 

[_Kadaj_]

I've probably played the match more and against the highest level DDD's (Azen, M2K, Chillin, Atomsk) than any other Marth. And that isn't an arrogant statement, it's more than likely true rofl

Wouldn't be much to lol about, I'm not biased about the matches Marth wins or loses


Marth vs Snake is really style dependant


Match up ratios in brawl should be taken lightly because of the possibility of baiting and taking bait


Marth vs Snake (Snake utilizing grenades when appropriate but still approaching) 50 50


Marth vs Snake (Snake grenade camping the entire time and baiting you into shielding and approaching, literally never approaching) 60 40 Snake


Marth vs MK (Marth camping and baiting MK into approaches 60 40 MK)

Marth vs MK (MK also camping and trapping Marth, counter attacking his approaches with his highly prioritized b-moves. Marth can't really 'trap' MK) 65 35 MK


It's really dependant on whos baiting and whos attacking sometimes, it's hard to call **** so easily. I think the ratios should be decided based on each character being played as gayly and boring as possible

This is true.

But allow me to bethe 1st tosay that NEO has the GAYEST MK you will ever play in your life if you main marth

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Lmfao!!!!!

 

[_Kadaj_]

you know its true LMAO!

you tried to get M2K to do it when me and him were playing