1) A2, quit trolling every single time Ike is mentioned everywhere. You know nothing about him. If anybody wants a real discussion about Ike, they'll put you in the ignore list.
Quite on the contrary, I know a lot about Ike, and I use him in friendlies, and my friend plays a legit CF, so I do actually know this matchup. I'm pretty legit with him, since I am really good at landing extremely gimmicky stuff, since my playstyle hinges on mindgames and conditioning people into getting hit by random Smashes. The problem lies in you. You overestimate Ike's advantages, seemingly are able to ignore Ike's extreme ending lag, and you do an extremely bad job of applying what reactions are possible in high level play. In fact you probably even ignored the amazing Ike mains who admit that Ike is a garbage character (If I recall, I'm certain Rykoshet and Renegade are among the ones I'm trying to mention). Are you going to tell them that they know nothing about the character?
2) The fact you even mentioned Dsmash proves you have no clue how Ikes play.
No, I mentioned it because it was funny. Ike's D-smash is not a viable move, and all I just proved is that the Falcon Punch is a marginally better move. Both moves suck and should never be used. The Falcon Punch however actually kills (and has the advantage of some sick spacing on the Reverse Falcon Punch).
3) Everyone is assuming the Ike would use Nair when Falcon is close enough to hit him before it's out. -_- I'd much rather sit on the ground and just jab if he's that close. You also have to consider Falcon's reaction time to seeing Ike in the air, Falcon's travel time to get close enough, Falcon's jumping frames, and then the few start-up frames of Uair. I doubt Falcon is going to hit him before Nair is out as often as you think.
Falcon goes even in Jab wars, but he has better tilts that can outspace Ike's Jabs. And no, Ike isn't just able to get away with this "ideal" scenario every time. If he spams N-airs, he will get punished, and nothing is forcing Falcon to commit to getting hit. Rather he has the zoning advantage because of his mobility. If Falcon thinks he approached too late, he can simply retreat and not get hit if he has good zoning skills.
4) Falcon Kick hits the sword. Fsmash hits the sword. There is no properly timed Dash Attack that's possible on a regular basis. The landing lag is the same as normal jumping ending lag. Considering we have a sword in front of us all the way until those couple frames, lol good luck landing that in reality on a regular basis.
See, this is an example of you COMPLETELY overestimating Ike's advantages. Ike's N-air has 13 frames of landing lag, which is entirely possible to punish. You just need to be smart, OR you just need to powershield his N-air. tl;dr, Ike can and will get punished against an opponent who knows how to deal with his stuff.
5) PSing is irrelevant. There is a very good reason why nobody brings up PSing in real MU discussions. Any move in the game that isn't a grab can be PSed and punished according. Even if it's not on reaction, you can predict and PS. And anybody follows your "logic" of going by pure frame data A2 which you seem to love, D3 is worse then Ike.
D3 is in fact an overrated character, but when it comes to frame data he has better tilts (in terms of hitbox and frame data), a MUCH better B-air (do I need to explain this one?), a real reason to use fullhops (Ike cannot do fullhop -> two aerials, and he's in fact the ONLY character who is in this situation), and a MUCH better grab with a lot more range (that even comes out one frame faster, which makes a difference because there are several Jab combos that Ike is unable to shieldgrab due to this).
And PSing is relevant, because against Ike you can do it
consistently without needing mindgames or prediction, and I do know people who play this game well enough that they actually do apply this. Why else would you guys then bother to mention PSing projectiles against say Mario? It's the same concept. You can do it on reaction if you don't suck. And then I will remind you that most people do suck, and the average professional for this game sucks a lot more than the average professional for other competitive games. However matchup discussion aims to lay down options for two players that don't suck.
He's slower in attack speed, air speed by far, lacks Ike's safe upclose jab game, and is much easier to camp by projectiles due to his size.
Firstoff he's not actually slower you numbskull (seriously, you're the one who knows nothing about this game. You're actually contradicting frame data right now). Yes his HORIZONTAL air movement is slower, but Ike's is so bad either way it's a small difference, and King DDD's fast falling speed does help him significantly in other ways. And Ike's Jab game isn't safe. You can shieldgrab him out of it with good timing, and at virtually any range due to Ike extending his hurtbox, and before you tell me that this is unrealistically hard to do, I have a friend who does this very often against me in general. D3 also does better against projectile camping due to his shieldgrab alone (and Waddle Dees actually help him against projectile camping due to their hurtboxes), although both characters cannot win against Falco.
Ike is so limited that you can actually bother to powershield his stuff consistently, and there is nothing he can do about it since he has no safe approach (and his grabs are underwhelming). He's overall the slowest character in the game along with Ganondorf. Relying on prediction to powershield is not necessary against Ike. You just need to have good skill, which 95% of players don't have for this game. Hence why Ike appears better, since he takes much less skill to abuse compared to other characters.
You are the one who knows nothing about this game. I'm laughing at how easy you're making this for me. All you need to do to see that you're wrong is go to the G&W boards export on the DDD matchup to get the frame data for DDD, then try out DDD in training mode to discover that he also has significantly less ending lag than Ike on tons of stuff. It isn't fun when someone as uninformed as you makes arguments that are so easy to counter. Step it up dude.
20:80
40-60
