Match-Up Between Samus and Captain Falcon

[Crystanium]

All right, so Captain Falcon is second on my list. (I am listing all characters in alphabetical order.) I noticed that there was a guide for Captain Falcon, but nothing was said about the match-up between him and Samus. I am doing this so I can have accurate information for my guide, The Chozo Warrior: A Samus Guide Second Edition.

ChromePirate, a member of SWF made a match-up list for Samus. In this list, he said that the match-up would be 70-30, which is in Samus' favor. Whether you disagree with this or not (and I know you may, since in that other thread, Samus was placed as an "even" match-up), please explain why. Since we haven't had any real discussion in that thread, this is just a guess. IvanEva notes in his chart that Samus has a slight advantage, which means Falcon has a slight disadvantage. So, I just wanted to collect some data about Captain Falcon and how you guys think he'd do against Samus.

So, here are my questions, and please add anything else that should be noted. Keep in mind that I want accurate information so that my guide will be correct and lack bias.

• Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
• How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
• How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
• Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)
• How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
• What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
• As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?

 

[Lionman]

Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
Aerial with some good ground moves

How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
Falcon kick, raptor boost and good jabs make falcon pretty good in the ground

How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
His aerials are good but hard to hit against good players, he have the knee of justice for killing and other moves

Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)
he can use the knee of the justice if the oponent is near to the edge

How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
Falcon recovery is really good

What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
Final destination

As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?
Samus is an easy match-up if you know how to play Falcon

 

[Roager]

* Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
I'd say aerial. At least, that's how I play him. His u-air and n-air are really versatile, and pretty fast.

* How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
His approaches suck. But his smashes are good killers. I don't really use his ground game. Just to get the opponent into the air.

* How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
two spikes, and the knee as a kill move. N-air and U-air are good for damage building. I'd say his air game is pretty good.

* Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)
Ledgehopped knee/falconpunch. Aside from that, i'm not sure what you're looking for... sorry. B-air for the stage spike?

* How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
MUCH better than melee. DI has a lot more effect on his up-B, and his side-B has a lot more use, now that spiking someone with it no longer stops you. Plus, the up-B has a much larger area for it to grab the edge. Falcon's got a good recovery. Fairly short, compared to some, but it's better than a lot of people say.

* What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
against Samus, few platforms and such is better. FD and Smashville are tough, but Delfino's pretty good for falcon.

* As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?
I haven't really had experience. But, from what I know, Samus has projectiles, and it's not a great thing for Falcon to deal with. But Falcon's got a speed advantage, which helps a lot. I'd call it slightly in Samus's advantage. like 60-40, or 55-45. It's close. real close.


Fair warning, though, I'm not the best judge of this. If something somebody else says, like Wogrim or Noodlehead, is different from this, it's probably right. I only know one Samus player, and he's not too terribly good. Everything I said is based on theory. They'd have something more concrete.

 

[UzakiuzuG]

Well I had an ok samus to fight against, the basic spam the laser, basically camping with all the moves she had. Plus the laser had a hit stun so she ran over grabbed me did I think d thrown to up A. Thats all there was to worry about for me. OH and that nasty spike. I always get spiked somehow by her. That was about 3 weeks ago though. Falcon in my opinion though takes the case. Idk though bout even

Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
I consider him more of a both he needs his ground game to knock you in the air, but air to punish either way really.

How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
Better than the air

How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
So-so

Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)
Yeah , keep your eye open for it lol.

How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
Pretty decent not as good as Sonic though =/

What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
Any stage with no platforms =(


As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been? Gooodz

Well I had an ok samus to fight against, the basic spam the laser, basically camping with all the moves she had. Plus the laser had a hit stun so she ran over grabbed me did I think d thrown to up A. Thats all there was to worry about for me. OH and that nasty spike. I always get spiked somehow by her. That was about 3 weeks ago though. Falcon in my opinion though takes the case. Idk though bout even

 

[FAILchion-]

Q. Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
A. Completely depends on your playstyle. I personally play on the ground more, but I will absolutely not hesitate to get in the air.

Q. How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
A. Pretty good. Good grab game, his AAA combo has tons of priority and easily leads into something else, and pretty powerful. Plus, he can tech-chase.

Q. How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
A. Pretty good as well. U-Air is extremely common and efficient in combos, B-Air is an amazing approach, N-Air is a great move to use in the air just for anything, and every fan’s favorite, the F-Air, aka the Knee of Justice, regarded as one of the best kill moves, despite it’s a challenge to sweetspot it. Also, an Auto-Canceled D-Air into an Auto-Canceled F-Air is one of the best chains to use.

Q. Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)
A. The common favorite, an edge-hopped F-Air. It almost always usually sweetspots when it hits, which is amazing. Other than that, I can only see the U-Air being somewhat potentially useful. But I think if you’re good at this kind of stuff, you can mindf*** the opponent long enough to catch him in a Falcon Dive. ToKneeOrNotToKnee said once, somewhere, that Falcon Dive can be reversed. If this is true and easily conducted, Capt. Falcon’s edge game can increase to quite a degree.

Q. How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
A. Many were bummed that you don’t gain a second jump after using Falcon Kick in the air. However, Falcon Dive has impressive altitude and horizon reach, which is great.

Q. What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
A. No one has conducted enough info into this. So far, the most informed here, stage-wise, would be Red Alloy.

Q. As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?
A. Against Samus, I do okay. The only thing that gets annoying are Missiles, D-Tilt, and DI’d Z-Air spam. Other than that, I hardly ever have problems with Samus. I’m not sure on this, but I ‘think’ that Capt. Falcon’s U-Tilt can cancel Samus’s fully-charged Charge Shot. I’ll need to test this out more.

 

[Roager]

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said once, somewhere, that Falcon Dive can be reversed. If this is true and easily conducted, Capt. Falcon’s edge game can increase to quite a degree.

Reversed? If this is what I think it is, it's quite true. I use it all the time. If you start the Falcon Dive, and hold backwards in the startup, he'll do the dive backwards. I assumed this was common knowledge. Unless what ToKneeOrNotToKnee was talking about something else...

 

[Noodlehead]

-Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
I'd say he's arial,falcons air game is pretty sweet once you learn to play with him.I think if you play defensely you'll probably say ground game though.

-How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
I really dont like his ground game that much.His ground moves have low priority.Mix up is also important for his ground game.

-How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
I love his arials.Its pretty easy to combo and damage some people in the air for falcon IMO.

-Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)
Yes he does.The best one is ledged hopped knee.

-How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
I find his recovery pretty good.It's easy to aim his falcon dive too.

-What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
It depends who you're playing

-As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?
Samus has a slight advantage over falcon.

 

[FAILchion-]

Reversed? If this is what I think it is, it's quite true. I use it all the time. If you start the Falcon Dive, and hold backwards in the startup, he'll do the dive backwards. I assumed this was common knowledge. Unless what ToKneeOrNotToKnee was talking about something else...

I've never tried it myself. It may be just me, though.

 

[Uffe]

• Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?

I believe he's more of an aerial character. That's how I get some attacks in.

• How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?

He's okay on the ground. His smash attacks are pretty handy, too, so being on the ground isn't that bad for Falcon.

• How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?

Better than he does on the ground. You've got a lot of variety when you're in the air. His forward B is pretty lethal when over a gap.

• Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)

Yes. If he's on the edge, he can let go and hit with a fair or uair. If his opponent is on the edge he can grab them with his up B or bair them. You could possibly use your forward B to knock down your opponent which should then bounce you up to grab the edge.

• How would you rate Falcon's recovery?

I'm not sure how to rate his recovery. Sometimes I make it and sometimes I don't.

• What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?

I believe stages without platforms aren't his best. Stages like The Summit aren't good for him, either.

• As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?

I'd say good. The fact that he has no projectile forces him to go up to Samus which then usually stops Samus from using her projectile. Plus he's pretty quick and lengthy so he has some chance of winning against her.

 

[Z1GMA]

Uffe! how you came up with that name? "Uffe"
Are you from USA?

 

[Zeallyx]

Reversed? If this is what I think it is, it's quite true. I use it all the time. If you start the Falcon Dive, and hold backwards in the startup, he'll do the dive backwards. I assumed this was common knowledge. Unless what ToKneeOrNotToKnee was talking about something else...

yes, what I was talking about was, when the opponent is on your left and you dive from the right, it can happen that you grab them facing right and shoot them to the right.
you have to hit them in a certain angle though, but it has happened to me more than once

 

[Tenki]

Incomplete answers, because I'd rather just comment on some of these.

[*]Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?

Really depends on the player. The best Falcons I've seen have a good balance of ground (jab cancels, tilts [situationally], and grabs) and air (U-air, N-air, B-air).

[*]How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
It sucks for the direction behind Falcon. If he's hanging from the ledge or RAR's a jump, it's easier for him to get back on stage, but if he's facing away from the stage, then he won't fly backwards too well. At least, not with up-B.

 

[__V]

* Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
He leans toward aerials.

* How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
Reasonably well.

* How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
Above average. He's fast, has a spammable Uair, a strong Bair, the Knee, and a spike.

* Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)

He can Knee or Uair when he recovers. He can also airgrab you if you're close enough to the edge.

* How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
Worse than Samus, but it's pretty good.

* What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
FD.

* As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?
Grapple-beam is a PAIN.

 

[Crystanium]

Thanks for the information, everyone. I'll let this thread go on and see if anymore can be said about Falcon. I have a friend who mains Falcon and he does a pretty good job. It's on Wi-Fi, but still, how he plays as Falcon is very excellent. I've lost some matches against his Falcon, but I've managed to get in my points as well. His Falcon Punch and Knee of Justice are mainly his KO attacks, and my friend has landed these countless times, not only on me, but other friends from online experience as well.

 

[Roager]

yes, what I was talking about was, when the opponent is on your left and you dive from the right, it can happen that you grab them facing right and shoot them to the right.
you have to hit them in a certain angle though, but it has happened to me more than once

Wait, you mean grab them, in midair, when they're behind you? does that make them move to the front of you, or turn you to face them?

 

[FAILchion-]

Thanks for the information, everyone. I'll let this thread go on and see if anymore can be said about Falcon. I have a friend who mains Falcon and he does a pretty good job. It's on Wi-Fi, but still, how he plays as Falcon is very excellent. I've lost some matches against his Falcon, but I've managed to get in my points as well. His Falcon Punch and Knee of Justice are mainly his KO attacks, and my friend has landed these countless times, not only on me, but other friends from online experience as well.

I can guarantee you this. 99.9999999% of the Smashers here who play a good Capt. Falcon online play a 10x better Capt. Falcon offline. Common knowledge, but still.

 

[Zeallyx]

Wait, you mean grab them, in midair, when they're behind you? does that make them move to the front of you, or turn you to face them?

it like makes you switch positions
you end up with your back to the stage, and the edgeguarder (who is edgeguarding you) flies offstage
it may be very situational due to the psoitioning I mentioned earlier but it is possible

edit: to anwser your question: 'Wait, you mean grab them, in midair, when they're behind you? does that make them move to the front of you,

yes, they fly to where you where coming from
like I said earlier 'it's like switching positions'

 

[Crystanium]

I can guarantee you this. 99.9999999% of the Smashers here who play a good Capt. Falcon online play a 10x better Capt. Falcon offline. Common knowledge, but still.

Yeah, I already know that Wi-Fi proves nothing. It's only good for practice. Still, I can't brawl with my friend any other way, since he doesn't live close.

 

[FAILchion-]

Yeah, I already know that Wi-Fi proves nothing. It's only good for practice. Still, I can't brawl with my friend any other way, since he doesn't live close.

Trufacks. Hardly any Capt. Falcons I know near Orlando, much less Florida. >_>

 

[Majora_younglink]

Trufacks. Hardly any Capt. Falcons I know near Orlando, much less Florida. >_>

You are wrong. Insert two tokens and try again.

*coughmeinTampacough*

 

[Mr.Fakeman]

Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
How I use Falcon is fairly unusually nowadays, since I don't see it much happening. SHFFL teching for Falcon has 2 main benefits and they are quick damage build up and since SHFFL involves Short Hop. when the Damage Ratio is high for Samus, Falcon can quickly land since he is close to the floor and do a Smash move eg. Fsmash or Dsmash.
How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
In my perspective Captain Falcon has speed on the ground and can switch between moves fairly quick, In summary he posseses many potential mind games.
Does Falcon have any edge-game?
Yes, he definatelly does - the ledgehopped knee where Captain Falcon grabs the edge and does a quick hop and Fairs the opponent attempting to edgequard (I noticed the knee sweetspots everytime it's ledgehopped, if it doesen't, I'm just saying it always works for me). Another is the respawing of the edgehog invincibility frames where you press down while holding on the ledge and then upB-ing back.
How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
Well actually, I'm not that good when it comes to aerials, however Falcon has the most unexpected KO's with the Raptor Boost in the air(my favourite spike) and of course the classical knee. the bad side is that most (but not all) of Captain Falcons move have bad priority and therefore can get cancelled by certain moves like Samus' downspike(this has happened to me frequently when attempting to Uair samus).
How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
Falcon's recovery has an oppening for players that like to downspike alot (which most of my friends do). I believe that is the top flaw for Falcon, on the other hand, the up B has been made longer in distance and you can intercept people since the grab range is much wider in range.
What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
Stages with no surfaces on the edges like FD and Smashville. It traps Falcons recovery movefrom reaching the ledge.
As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?
Since I have a friend that plays incredibly well with Samus, I have so many things to point out that I won't say them all, I have the most trouble just getting close to Samus, it's obvious why (missles, beam, grapple beam and possibly more that I cannot think of right now) in this case I play better with Samus then I do Falcon, I would rate the advatange on Samus - Falcon = 60-40

 

[Ville]

* Is Captain Falcon a grounded or aerial character?
Rather and aerial character, the only 2 things that are really reliable on ground are jab,
raptorboost,Utilt and Dtilt. All his aerial moves are good, not the best, but good so I'd
rather he should fight in the air
*How well does Captain Falcon do on the ground?
His groundgame is fine if you use the right attacks
*How well does Captain Falcon do in the air?
He's good in the air if you have the timing and a sense for what attack is best in what
situation
* Does Falcon have any edge-game? If so, what are they? (By "edge-game," I mean hanging on the edge and being able to perform any attacks from there. For example, using a second jump and then using f-air while returning to surface of the stage.)
He can do Nair, Uair, Falcon Punch, Raptor boost and knee from the ledge what is pretty a
lot imo
* How would you rate Falcon's recovery?
Compared to melee it's way better, it has some really big range horizontally and does
good damage and knockback when hit+ you regain another recovery.
* What stages are unfriendly for Falcon?
Every stage without platforms cuz it really limits him at approaching and screws his
airgame.
* As a Falcon player, how has your experience against Samus been?
For me it's always been one of the easiest matchups.

 

[FAILchion-]

You are wrong. Insert two tokens and try again.

*coughmeinTampacough*

Like I said, any I know. I didn't say there weren't any Capt. Falcons. '_'

 

[Crystanium]

If it's not too much to ask, is there anything else that you guys can offer about Captain Falcon?

Oh, and Roager, if I am not mistaken, is the only one who actually mentioned the numbers for the match-up. He said,

I'd call it slightly in Samus's advantage. like 60-40, or 55-45.

Does anyone agree or disagree? Thanks again.

 

[Wogrim]

ZAir, Missiles, DTilt, and spike are the only things I've had trouble with against Samus. I don't know about the regular missiles (probably) but I'm pretty sure knee breaks through super missiles, which makes them a bit less useful unless you "protect" them with the ZAir. As far as I know you can only delay Falcon's approach, and then when he's in your face he destroys Samus at close range because her moves are slow. That DTilt has good range though and stops ground approaches if you time it right.

 

[__V]

Around 60-40.