Match-Up Between Bowser and Samus

[Liquid Gen]

I don't really mind, to be honest. tha_carter is on the Samus boards?

I think we should get everyone's opinion on the Samus boards and find a common ground between us. And hopefully if they're stubborn, if I ever get those vids up that can change their mind?

Either way 6:4 Samus seems right.

 

[Flayl]

70-30 was when Xyro came here and said "Bowser has absolutely nothing to stop missile spam" and nobody bothered to correct him, so...

60-40 in my eyes.

 

[Bowser King]

60-40 max IMO.

-Bowser King

 

[Crystanium]

Xyro wasn't the only one who said 70-30. MrEh also thought so. Have you two played a very skilled Samus? That would be important in order to give a match-up ratio.

 

[Seagull Joe]

i liked xyro's combo vid.it was good

 

[Jim Morrison]

65 :35

 

[Blistering Speed]

55:45 Samus favour, I've played over 30 friendlies with a great Samus and we came to that consensus. I think too many people are basing this off theory considering they've never played a good Samus and are blinded by the whole 'ZOMG Z AIRZ nd projectil3z'. It also happens Bowser wrecks her up close and she can't kill for **** against the heaviest character in the game.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

65:35 in who's favor?

seriously, powershield and up+b on the ground should help with a lot of the camp. her zair is ridiculously overrated, oh noes 6% with very little hitstun, good thing i live to 230. it's annoying, but powershield or upb invincibility through it.

all samus has is camping and gimps, once bowser gets up close she is SOL

just my 2 cents, i'll find a couple good samuses and play games with them until i know it in and out, but from experience with the samus boards, they automatically assume they destroy all power characters, even though they cannot kill them and all of them except ganon can get through her camp

 

[Crystanium]

55:45 Samus favour, I've played over 30 friendlies with a great Samus and we came to that consensus. I think too many people are basing this off theory considering they've never played a good Samus and are blinded by the whole 'ZOMG Z AIRZ nd projectil3z'. It also happens Bowser wrecks her up close and she can't kill for **** against the heaviest character in the game.

Who is this Samus you are speaking of? Also, why not expand on fighting more than one Samus with Bowser? I can say the same thing, but I'm not, because unlike some people here, I'm willing to go against anyone who has been using Bowser since the release of SSBB in North America, or anyone who has been using Bowser for sixth months consistently.

I think the ironic part in your post is that you say that you "think too many people are basing this off theory considering they've never played a good Samus," and so are "blinded" by the idea of Samus' z-air and projectile, because you then say that Samus can't kill for -expletive- against the heavist character in the game. That's way more of an exaggeration than what I've said in the previous page.

I don't agree with 55-45. I'm willing to go with 65-35 or 60-40, but not 55-45.

just my 2 cents, i'll find a couple good samuses and play games with them until i know it in and out, but from experience with the samus boards, they automatically assume they destroy all power characters, even though they cannot kill them and all of them except ganon can get through her camp

You go do that. When I brawled with two very skilled Bowser players yesterday, my opinion of 70-30 went down to 65-35, and that is a change, even if it is slight. I'm even willing to go 60-40. I was quite amazed with how Bowser could be used.

Liquid Gen, I would like to brawl with you some more. You're staying on my Brawl Friend Code. And again, anyone who wishes to brawl with me to get some practical experience, feel free to tell me, "Hey, Dryn, I'd like to brawl with you." I'll be more than happy to take up the offer. Also, I just told the Samus boards about how long I will be doing this. I will be finishing the Bowser discussion this coming Sunday. So, you have until Sunday 12:00 AM PST, and that is also when i will be finished brawling with the Bowsers here on this board.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Who is this Samus you are speaking of? Also, why not expand on fighting more than one Samus with Bowser? I can say the same thing, but I'm not, because unlike some people here, I'm willing to go against anyone who has been using Bowser since the release of SSBB in North America, or anyone who has been using Bowser for sixth months consistently.

He's a nobody in the tournament scene, when you live anywhere in the UK except for London, you're lucky if you even meet a competitive player in Brawl, let alone become recognised in the smash community. Please don't take me as stubborn, I would gladly play other Samus', but he's the only thing I have IRL for Samus and I can't do Wifi (dialup). I don't need to play other Samus' to realise the character's limitations and how his playstyle could have changed to be more effective and how that would affect the matchup.

I think the ironic part in your post is that you say that you "think too many people are basing this off theory considering they've never played a good Samus," and so are "blinded" by the idea of Samus' z-air and projectile, because you then say that Samus can't kill for -expletive- against the heavist character in the game. That's way more of an exaggeration than what I've said in the previous page.

No, because my point was actually valid, you seem to be confusing between significant factors and overrated factors. I stand by what I say, Samus cannot kill for **** and when you're facing one of the best survivalists in the game with the heaviest weight, that's going to have a very large effect on the matchup. That's also ignoring the fact you haven't confronted, what happens when Bowser actually gets past the projectiles and Z Air, Bowser wrecks Samus there.

I don't agree with 55-45. I'm willing to go with 65-35 or 60-40, but not 55-45.

Because 55-45 is such an unthinkable step to take considering in one day your opinion's changed from 70-30 to 60-40.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Up-B wrecks Samus when up-close...

 

[Crystanium]

He's a nobody in the tournament scene, when you live anywhere in the UK except for London, you're lucky if you even meet a competitive player in Brawl, let alone become recognised in the smash community. Please don't take me as stubborn, I would gladly play other Samus', but he's the only thing I have IRL for Samus and I can't do Wifi (dialup). I don't need to play other Samus' to realise the character's limitations and how his playstyle could have changed to be more effective and how that would affect the matchup.

Well, you're only fighting one Samus player, and not a whole lot. And if this friend of yours is the only person you're fighting, then maybe you should suspend your judgment on this. Liquid Gen and Phiddlesticks aren't the only Bowser players I've played. I've fought three other Bowser players as well.

No, because my point was actually valid, you seem to be confusing between significant factors and overrated factors. I stand by what I say, Samus cannot kill for **** and when you're facing one of the best survivalists in the game with the heaviest weight, that's going to have a very large effect on the matchup. That's also ignoring the fact you haven't confronted, what happens when Bowser actually gets past the projectiles and Z Air, Bowser wrecks Samus there.

Samus may have a hard time KO'ing, but again, you're exaggerating on the point that she cannot KO. Bowser may be the heaviest, but he is also a very large target, and Samus can rack up damage real quick against a character like Bowser in a short amount of time. And, since we're discussing a "good" Samus and a "good" Bowser, you'd also have to take into consideration that Samus can space very well. I've been given comments about that with my Samus.

Get back to me when you've actually brawled with more than one skillful Samus main. Otherwise, I don't want to hear about your theoretics.

Because 55-45 is such an unthinkable step to take considering in one day your opinion's changed from 70-30 to 60-40.

I think it's silly that you only fought one Samus main in person, and the both of you agree that the match-up is 55-45. The problem with that is if this were the case, then all I had to do was brawl with one friend of mine who uses Bowser and think that I have everything I need to know when it comes to the match-up discussion and match-up ratio. It wouldn't even be necessary for me to enter the Bowser board to discuss anything.

 

[B!squick]

I would like to point out that Bowser was found to be only the... 4th heaviest I think? I know for sure DeDeDe is the fattest.

EDIT: Yep, 4th.

Character Vertical Survivability:
(highest to lowest)
(Percent damage required to be killed by a fully-charged Mario up-smash on Final Destination; Mario up-smash was chosen due to its large and low hitbox, along with almost straight vertical knockback.)

DeDeDe: 99
DK: 96
Snake: 96
Bowser: 93

And yes, I realise this is a moot point, I just wanted to be sure we had all of our facts straight... and I wanted something to do, I was bored. >.<

 

[Phiddlesticks]

"only"

You say it like it's a bad thing lol

 

[Blistering Speed]

Strange as it seems, some characters survive better horizontally then vertically, in terms of horizontal resistance I'm fairly sure Bowser is the 'heaviest'.

That's fine Dryn, I don't honestly think the difference in 60-40 and 55:45 is worth enough for me to fruitlessly debate you, it seems all my valid point's will fall on deaf ears until I play some more Samus', because that changes facts apparently.

 

[Bowser King]

I would like to point out that Bowser was found to be only the... 4th heaviest I think? I know for sure DeDeDe is the fattest.

EDIT: Yep, 4th.



And yes, I realise this is a moot point, I just wanted to be sure we had all of our facts straight... and I wanted something to do, I was bored. >.<

Vertically yes but horizontally he's #1. Overall he's also 1 IIRC.

-Bowser King

 

[Crystanium]

Strange as it seems, some characters survive better horizontally then vertically, in terms of horizontal resistance I'm fairly sure Bowser is the 'heaviest'.

That's fine Dryn, I don't honestly think the difference in 60-40 and 55:45 is worth enough for me to fruitlessly debate you, it seems all my valid point's will fall on deaf ears until I play some more Samus', because that changes facts apparently.

It does. It kind of reminds me when I was debating with the Link boards about the match-up between Samus and Link. I trust we both agreed that it was 50-50, but we had our differences regarding other things. Deva didn't care if I brawled with some Link players. All he cared is if the Link players I brawled with were skilled, and that's something I had to admit to Deva about, and that was, while I did brawl with other Link players, they weren't the greatest I had come across. And either way, I know of no one else who would even agree with your match-up ratio besides your friend.

 

[Xyro77]

BOWSER can not and will not EVER have a higher rating than 70/30 on the matchup.

no matter what happens, bowsers shield is horrible(dk,ddd,snake,ganon and samus too) and too many stages go against bowser and are in favor of samus. honestly, maybe im dreaming but i cant think of a bowser stage that puts samus at a slight disadvantge.

BTW, zair and missles is only 80% of samus game. you fail to account for the combos that are basicly unstopable on big characters.

 

[Metatitan]

i liked xyro's combo vid.it was good

Tudor's combo vid ****s all over xyros
Not saying xyro's was bad but.... i mean look at tudor's u cant compare

 

[itsthebigfoot]

bowser is only 4th heaviest off the top, 1st heaviest off the side (dk may take that now though, cause he was second, and then he got the upb brake)

so yeah, he's just 4th on that cause he's floaty

bowsers shield is horrible(dk,ddd,snake,ganon and samus too)

snake and bowser have two of the best shields out there, couple with great shield games

also, if you want stages where bowser will scare you, try anywhere with a low ceiling

 

[Bowser King]

no matter what happens, bowsers shield is horrible

Stopped reading there.

Bowser can do a lot with that shield

-Bowser King

 

[B!squick]

Stopped reading there.

Bowser can do a lot with that shield

-Bowser King

Same. I'm hoping that post was meant to be as silly as it sounded.

 

[TexanBull58]

well i mean cmon seriously just shield or dodge every time samus does that she'll run out of room eventually i mean that only does waht 5 damage? yea do 3 of that on me then ill get u in a fire honestly guys any move can be countered so claimin just that lil z air is pointless i mean really cmon get real she'll run out of room and that is when bowser will beat the hell out of her bowser is the **** and everyone is going to realize that evenutally and bowser is the best in the gameeee!!

 

[Hobobloke]

Your not helping mate.

 

[Bufu_Man]

LOL DUDE.

I believe thats Shadowth7. I play him all the time, we go even lul.

yea that was him. i actually 2 stocked him the 1st match on BF barely lost the 2nd match on smashville. then i used DK and just got owned on brinstar. this match up isnt easy as some of you say. zair seems to sometimes still hit thru sheilds, and her UpB is annoying as hell. not to mention she can ledge camp extremely well, using under ground zairs to stop your ground approaches. even when i tried to fire breath him while he was on the ledge, zair underground stopped it every single time. im surprised i did so well against him tho, he obviously knew the bowser matchup more then i knew the samus matchup, lmao.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Yeah, it's cause he plays me all the time lol.

When I want to win I just stay inside my shield. The whole match.

Literally.

 

[Bufu_Man]

is dryn anywhere as good as WES? i need to learn this matchup more. the last samus i played was xyro a couple months back and he wasnt all that great. maybe hes bad on wifi, who knows.

 

[Crystanium]

is dryn anywhere as good as WES? i need to learn this matchup more. the last samus i played was xyro a couple months back and he wasnt all that great. maybe hes bad on wifi, who knows.

I won't compare myself to other Samus mains. Wes was good in the Melee days, but he doesn't use Samus as far as I am aware. So far, the best two in the tournament scene are Tudor and Xyro. I read a comment recently of someone saying that they liked how Xyro's Samus improved. I haven't brawled with Xyro for quite some time. If you want to play me, you're more than welcome to. I'm done with the Bowser match-up, though. We're working on Captain Falcon. Still, if you want to play some, I'm fine with that. It's more experience for me.

 

[B!squick]

Heh, the more I play Bowser or anyone else for that matter on WiFi the more I wish I had friends nearby to play.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

I want to try one of these fancy intraweb matches, cause from all i've seen, nobody has addressed samus's massive ko problem

I'll even warm up my bowser, and try for this one

 

[Bowser King]

They listed it as 65:35 already -_-

It's definitely not that bad. 60:40 IMHO

-Bowser King

 

[Collective of Bears]

They listed it as 65:35 already -_-

It's definitely not that bad. 60:40 IMHO

-Bowser King

That's pretty much what Bowser has in ALL his matchups.

 

[B!squick]

That's pretty much what Bowser has in ALL his matchups.

Certain penguins aside. =_=