KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Uh, I covered that as well. ROB doesn't have great approaches on Zelda, but they're significantly better than hers are on him.
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Match-Up (2010) Rediscussion: ROB
- Thread starter #HBC | Scary
- Start date
MrEh
Smash Hero
however slightly.... he can **** our **** up
Ho ho! See what I did there?
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
you keep saying that. but why?
is it the blindspot wreckage that we have that you think sways the matchup THAT much?
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
I don't have a lot to say about this matchup, I find it easy compared to fighting Meta Knights all day long.
The best way to deal with Gyro is to throw it up in the air as high as you can. ROB won't go for it (or he's an idiot letting you be under him). You can usually take this time to hit him if he tries to rush in on you (foolhardy), and if you want to keep it you can always catch it on the way back down and repeat. It won't disappear so long as you continue to do this and don't hit his shield with it or let him catch it.
As for spacing, keep in mind you can hit his hitboxes with yours and you will usually win. (For example, if he tries to usmash through a playform, just dsmash the fire or something to that extent. I'm not sure which attacks of yours can hit his fire, but if Captain Falcon can hit it with Utilt, I'm sure you can hit it with something). Same goes for Utilt, though it's harder to punish. You should be able to Fsmash his tilts if you space them right. Dilt isn't as good as it appear to be. If you are being hit by this on shield, you should be able to jump out of shield in between them or do a quick attack (Snake can utilt in between). Ftilt is the only real threat. Bait and punish. Neutral air will be a pain for you when recovering, so be aware of it, try to stay out of range when teleporting back. Be wary of Bair from ROB, it's strong and the hitbox moves deceptively. Don't try to chase him when he's using it. He can't hit you with anything if he retreats it. Be aware his head can hit/kill you as well.
As for your aggression, just try to stay close, pound on one of the worst shields in the game with moves like Nair, jab and Usmash. Don't approach with Fair or Bair, use them to punish of course. If you get a grab, toss him up and go to town with Nair at low percentage and Uair at higher percentages. Dtilt trips will score you a good bit of free damage, just be wary of spamming it, since it leave you open if you miss or hit shield.
This matchup is basically broken down to "first person in the air gets their *** kicked". Because of that, you're looking at a matchup that fluctuates greatly depending on the stage. Most likely you will stage strike down to Smashville of PS1. You want PS1 for stage control. Smashville is better for ROB in this matchup where he can keep your attacks more predictable. You need to win the first game. ROB's counterpick will most likely be something that forces Zelda into more arial combat, which is very bad. In the air, ROB has the safer options and will most likely be able to force you quickly into a bad recovery. Avoid Rainbow Cruise. Be wary of Norfair and Jungle Japes (Of the three, you would probably prefer Japes). Take him to Green Greens or Battlefield. Hamper his return to the ground with platforms. Yoshi's Island works well too. Camp the center, though he will try to do the same in that regard.
Depending on the stage this can go anywhere from 60-40 ROB to 55-45 Zelda.
The best way to deal with Gyro is to throw it up in the air as high as you can. ROB won't go for it (or he's an idiot letting you be under him). You can usually take this time to hit him if he tries to rush in on you (foolhardy), and if you want to keep it you can always catch it on the way back down and repeat. It won't disappear so long as you continue to do this and don't hit his shield with it or let him catch it.
As for spacing, keep in mind you can hit his hitboxes with yours and you will usually win. (For example, if he tries to usmash through a playform, just dsmash the fire or something to that extent. I'm not sure which attacks of yours can hit his fire, but if Captain Falcon can hit it with Utilt, I'm sure you can hit it with something). Same goes for Utilt, though it's harder to punish. You should be able to Fsmash his tilts if you space them right. Dilt isn't as good as it appear to be. If you are being hit by this on shield, you should be able to jump out of shield in between them or do a quick attack (Snake can utilt in between). Ftilt is the only real threat. Bait and punish. Neutral air will be a pain for you when recovering, so be aware of it, try to stay out of range when teleporting back. Be wary of Bair from ROB, it's strong and the hitbox moves deceptively. Don't try to chase him when he's using it. He can't hit you with anything if he retreats it. Be aware his head can hit/kill you as well.
As for your aggression, just try to stay close, pound on one of the worst shields in the game with moves like Nair, jab and Usmash. Don't approach with Fair or Bair, use them to punish of course. If you get a grab, toss him up and go to town with Nair at low percentage and Uair at higher percentages. Dtilt trips will score you a good bit of free damage, just be wary of spamming it, since it leave you open if you miss or hit shield.
This matchup is basically broken down to "first person in the air gets their *** kicked". Because of that, you're looking at a matchup that fluctuates greatly depending on the stage. Most likely you will stage strike down to Smashville of PS1. You want PS1 for stage control. Smashville is better for ROB in this matchup where he can keep your attacks more predictable. You need to win the first game. ROB's counterpick will most likely be something that forces Zelda into more arial combat, which is very bad. In the air, ROB has the safer options and will most likely be able to force you quickly into a bad recovery. Avoid Rainbow Cruise. Be wary of Norfair and Jungle Japes (Of the three, you would probably prefer Japes). Take him to Green Greens or Battlefield. Hamper his return to the ground with platforms. Yoshi's Island works well too. Camp the center, though he will try to do the same in that regard.
Depending on the stage this can go anywhere from 60-40 ROB to 55-45 Zelda.
AzNfinesse
Smash Journeyman
Now I never said to give rob free damage. I said he'll EVENTUALLY have to approach for the kill. True, he can space and zone us, but we have two major attacks to neutralize 90% of his kill approaches: Fsmash and Usmash.
And regardless of the fact that he may be able to zone us, there will be a blind spot and there will be an opening for zelda to approach. That is our opportunity to rack up damage. And, believe it or not, it is relatively easy for us to kill ROB. With ROB's large body and lack of ability to DI, it's easy to FF bair/fair or empty sh uair if you're excellent at reading/mindgames (though strongly discouraged, but I have pulled this off once, but have no recording...SAD DAY).
As for ROB's aerial game, true his aerial game is stronger than ours, but it is ridiculously easy to read. stay grounded and counter with the appropriate moves. Fair gets torn up by Fsmash, Usmash, and an uptilted ftilt. Nair can be Power shielded and followed up by a smash. Bair should never hit you unless you're off the stage and recovering with FW. Uair should never hit you because you should never intentionally be above him.
As a result, most ROB's will stay grounded, so you must deal with the camping (which we can do very little about). I like what The Real Inferno said about the gyro (throwing it in the air, that's a good idea). But also remember to use zelda's awesome glide toss to your advantage in this fight as well. The gyro is 50% of ROB's long-range camp game, and that gyro can be an extremely useful tool to help us approach.
There is also one beauty in this matchup: Zelda's options at close range are limitless. Once you do get inside ROB's hitbox, you can do virtually anything to rack up some insane amounts of damage. First of all, ROB can be dtilt tripped into a buffer fair/bair, allowing for easy kills. At low percentages, Usmash can follow up into other attacks (utilt, usmash, uair, fair, bair, nair, fsmash, jab, ftit tilted up) of course, depending on how he decides to DI.
Overall, I do feel this MU is 55:45 in ROB's favor, just because he has a much easier time racking up damage than us, and can play keepaway, but zelda's killing options and ability to kill and rack up high amounts of damage in a short amount of time are amazing in this MU.
And regardless of the fact that he may be able to zone us, there will be a blind spot and there will be an opening for zelda to approach. That is our opportunity to rack up damage. And, believe it or not, it is relatively easy for us to kill ROB. With ROB's large body and lack of ability to DI, it's easy to FF bair/fair or empty sh uair if you're excellent at reading/mindgames (though strongly discouraged, but I have pulled this off once, but have no recording...SAD DAY).
As for ROB's aerial game, true his aerial game is stronger than ours, but it is ridiculously easy to read. stay grounded and counter with the appropriate moves. Fair gets torn up by Fsmash, Usmash, and an uptilted ftilt. Nair can be Power shielded and followed up by a smash. Bair should never hit you unless you're off the stage and recovering with FW. Uair should never hit you because you should never intentionally be above him.
As a result, most ROB's will stay grounded, so you must deal with the camping (which we can do very little about). I like what The Real Inferno said about the gyro (throwing it in the air, that's a good idea). But also remember to use zelda's awesome glide toss to your advantage in this fight as well. The gyro is 50% of ROB's long-range camp game, and that gyro can be an extremely useful tool to help us approach.
There is also one beauty in this matchup: Zelda's options at close range are limitless. Once you do get inside ROB's hitbox, you can do virtually anything to rack up some insane amounts of damage. First of all, ROB can be dtilt tripped into a buffer fair/bair, allowing for easy kills. At low percentages, Usmash can follow up into other attacks (utilt, usmash, uair, fair, bair, nair, fsmash, jab, ftit tilted up) of course, depending on how he decides to DI.
Overall, I do feel this MU is 55:45 in ROB's favor, just because he has a much easier time racking up damage than us, and can play keepaway, but zelda's killing options and ability to kill and rack up high amounts of damage in a short amount of time are amazing in this MU.
MrEh
Smash Hero
But he doesn't. That's the problem.
Unless he doesn't approach, uses a projectile, knocks you offstage or in the air, and then you're screwed. ROB will only approach you if you're offstage or in the air. And guess what? Zelda can't use Fsmash or Usmash then, and she can't even defend herself in the air. Not against ROB anyway.
If you want to put up a wall of smashes to stop ROB, then you can try. ROB will put up a wall of Laser in response. Guess who wins?
It's also relatively easy for ROB to kill Zelda. She's light and has a terrible recovery. Moot point.
If it's easy to read, then you're playing terrible players. Being easy to read is not a character specific trait, it's a player specific trait.
What ROB approaches with Fair? Oh yeah...none. It's unsafe and I'm sure people stopped doing that in 08.
Everything in this game can be power shielded and punished.
No they're not. All of Zelda's close range options are beaten by a measly shield. Her close range game is slow and extremely punishable. Her only option that beats a shield is a grab, and that's also ridiculously slow and punishable. If you're constantly getting pressured by Zelda, then you're playing an amazing player or you're using a character with zero defensive options.
Getting in is one thing, but staying in is another thing entirely. Saying Zelda will destroy ROB at close range is silly, when ROB's close range game is still better then Zelda's. He has longer ranged tilts, faster tilts, faster moves, and he can run away from Zelda extremely well. Zelda is slow...really slow. She's Dedede slow.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
You guys who're saying "stay in" on ROB are also forgetting that Zelda can't effectively "stay in" on anybody. Her moveset, barring dtilt/AC nair, has ridiculous knockback at even low percentage, and her only significant movement speed is through the air. She's not exactly great at following up.
If ROB DIs away from Zelda after everything, he'll have a very good chance of getting back to neutral ground.
ROB, on the other hand, has plenty of close-range moves that string into one another, and he's faster in general, so he has the ability to stay in. Zelda does not.
I can see 45:55 in ROB's favor if you're really optimistic, but saying it's even or that Zelda has the advantage is silly imo.
If ROB DIs away from Zelda after everything, he'll have a very good chance of getting back to neutral ground.
ROB, on the other hand, has plenty of close-range moves that string into one another, and he's faster in general, so he has the ability to stay in. Zelda does not.
I can see 45:55 in ROB's favor if you're really optimistic, but saying it's even or that Zelda has the advantage is silly imo.
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Huh? What's this Fsmash I've been admiring for the longest time?
There's DAir, and there's wait > walk > beat OoS option (Robot's are kinda lame).
The simplest one would be A. A is fine on shield. Sadly, it's like it's only usable on shield. Doesn't stop Shaky or FoW from using Ness sparkles.
Dash Attack.
I'm starting to think the only good Robot player in North America is Holy.
Not that I'm going to argue this is good for Zelda. Having only DA to answer the robot's ridic ground normals doesn't translate to good chances.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Dash attack? Dair?
Lololol.
Lololol.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
And Ganon can kill MK at like 70, doesn't make the MU much better. I agree with everything MrEh said. ROB won't be approaching, most if not all of Zeldas little tricks she can do to him at close range are useless if she can't get close to him in the first place. I think a lot of you are thinking in theory/on paper in this MU, you see him as a big character Zelda can smack around easily for damage and kill moves which isn't actually the case. I'm not entirly sure what "Blindspot everyone keeps mentioning is, ROB shouldn't be doing anything that leaves him open at close range unless Zeldas in the air.
GwJ
Smash Hero
Holy mains MK now. Chibo and T0mmy are the two best I think.
Darkmusician
Smash Master
Save all of your up moves (air, smash, tilt) to kill him as early as possible upwards. ROB has a harder time living kill moves that send him straight up.
Kicks are ok as a punish but don't fish for them just because he's big. Work your way in patiently and don't over extend. Don't try to get flashy on the edge guard with spikes or w/e. (Unless the stock count is severely lopsided) Just build damage and be patient.
Kicks are ok as a punish but don't fish for them just because he's big. Work your way in patiently and don't over extend. Don't try to get flashy on the edge guard with spikes or w/e. (Unless the stock count is severely lopsided) Just build damage and be patient.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
nobody should. Some characters have to. Unless he's sitting back camping, he doesn't really have safe options against zelda.
(and, yes, I'm aware that he can spend most of the match camping)
MrEh
Smash Hero
Zelda's moves are really slow.
ROB is not Bowser. Thinking that you can punish a lot of his moves at close range is silly.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
false. other than his Dtlt, he's pretty much entirely punishable up-close. His Dsmash you can argue we can't punish because we are prety much limited to Dsmasing out of a sheild or a well timed dodge.
to say: "we don't instantly win at close range" is one thing, but to say "thinking he's very punishible at close range is silly" is quite another, and is untrue.
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
You may not have noticed, but DAir does large shield damage. Two of them plus anything or a bit of time is broken shield.
As for Dash Attack, I'd be curious how Zelda ever wins without it.
Erm... the problem is that it's unsafe on shield regardless... it's not Rob's shield we're trying to kill, it's Rob himself! =D And it's very rare that Rob will stay in shield long enough for it to break just as much as it's rare for any character to be in that situation.
I do find Nair to be quite cool against Rob. I find it tricky to space fsmashes against his tilts because they hit through it.
I do find Nair to be quite cool against Rob. I find it tricky to space fsmashes against his tilts because they hit through it.
TeeVee
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,570
rob wins this matchup easily lol...
ive played riot 3 times in tourny already (in singles), and while he is ****ing GODLY with zelda, he has yet to take a game off my rob.
zelda cant deal with the tilt spacing, use laser sparingly, spam spaced gyros (so that it lands in front of her, dont let her reflect it) and play around it. she has no options if you space fair [jumping back a bit] - airdodge - ftilt/d tilt
save nair to kill, grab ledge when shes offstage and when she recovers she gonna have to land on stage so just jump on stage and nair her.
as long as you zone her with your tilts and dont get hit with a lucky fair/bair...rob wins
ive played riot 3 times in tourny already (in singles), and while he is ****ing GODLY with zelda, he has yet to take a game off my rob.
zelda cant deal with the tilt spacing, use laser sparingly, spam spaced gyros (so that it lands in front of her, dont let her reflect it) and play around it. she has no options if you space fair [jumping back a bit] - airdodge - ftilt/d tilt
save nair to kill, grab ledge when shes offstage and when she recovers she gonna have to land on stage so just jump on stage and nair her.
as long as you zone her with your tilts and dont get hit with a lucky fair/bair...rob wins
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
This ^ will forever be the bane of my existence in this matchup. I have a terrible time picking that stupid thing up and I probably take like 50% each stock from it... I'm ********
Lucky for me your ROB is good enough that the experience has so far stopped me from losing to other ones
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Gyro's a huge mind****.
Veggie123
Smash Journeyman
yeah, his tilts are really hard to deal with. iirc even when powershielded i couldn't think of many options to punish ftilt. i mean if dash attack is one of the first moves to come to mind when looking at options, then you know you have very few. his tilts outspacing most (if not all) of zelda's moves puts significant hurt on her ground game.
i think rob getting the kill is probably the most challenging task for him in this MU. i think a lot of his kill moves are in the air and that's the one place he doesn't want to be. fsmash is risky if it doesn't connect, dsmash won't kill until high percents. usmash...zelda above rob doesn't happen very often.
i dunno, the MU seems pretty bad on paper lol and tilts are annoying. but i don't think it's a terrible MU for either. the MU plays out differently depending on who has stock lead.
i think rob getting the kill is probably the most challenging task for him in this MU. i think a lot of his kill moves are in the air and that's the one place he doesn't want to be. fsmash is risky if it doesn't connect, dsmash won't kill until high percents. usmash...zelda above rob doesn't happen very often.
i dunno, the MU seems pretty bad on paper lol and tilts are annoying. but i don't think it's a terrible MU for either. the MU plays out differently depending on who has stock lead.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Too bad ROB gets this way easier then Zelda.
Wow.
This thread makes me lol.
I think it's stage dependant. Battlefield could be even. But FD and most other stages are definitely in ROB's favour.
This thread makes me lol.
I think it's stage dependant. Battlefield could be even. But FD and most other stages are definitely in ROB's favour.
Diabolique
Smash Cadet
Just a little tid bit: I don't know if you guys know this but if Zelda footstools ROB in the air I believe she gets a free B/Fair. Not going to happen very often of course, but it's something.
AzNfinesse
Smash Journeyman
that is if you footstool them while they are close to the ground and you can FF Fair/Bair. It's too situational to consider in a general matchup (as you will rarely catch a good ROB in this situation), but it's a nice tidbit to know nonetheless.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
what he said.
Anyway, I've always thought that this matchup, while VERY winable, is a slight disadvantage for zelda (no worse than 60:40 though, if even that)
does that sound wrong to anybody?
Anyway, I've always thought that this matchup, while VERY winable, is a slight disadvantage for zelda (no worse than 60:40 though, if even that)
does that sound wrong to anybody?
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Hmmm....it appears this is done. I'll have a summary of everything in due time.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Updated, tell me what you think.
iirc, Rob's tilt attacks are pretty slow in start up.
MrEh
Smash Hero
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
o________o
Oh.
lawl
Okay then.
lawl
Okay then.