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Masashi's Pit is off the chain (Ketubato vids)

Jei Jei

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The only characters I always felt I needed to arrow spam against is MK and Falco.
MK because if I approach then it's instant **** via priority atks and Falco because approach leads to chaingrab, well on a low % anyway...at a high % approaching a Falco is probably ideal.
Against all other characters I find I can play a better close game with Pit.

Heh and I like to call powershielding everything while advancing the Terminator approach
 

Alopex

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So let me see if I get this straight.

To beat a defensive Pit you:

1) Air dodge into a lagless landing and powershield their attack, mastering the art of multiple powershielding. or
2) Dash and powershield their attack, still needing mastery over the multiple powershielding.

So, once I master multiple powershielding, I'll be able to defeat these defensive Pits in Montreal with any decently tiered character so long as I play a better offensive game than them.

Seems like a lot of work... and it seems like making my opponents need to master that art instead, by playing a defensive Pit, would give me complete advantage over them until they mastered it.

So, once again, and I know I sound like a broken record, if Pit's so good defensively, why risk going on the offense too soon when you know the defense is a sure thing? Use the defense to set up the offensive.
If they can multiple Powershield, THEN you forget defense and go for straight up offense. But until you know they CAN do that, why chance the early offense?
 

kown

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i agree with arrow spamming and i always have!

Alopex: you can do that but a lot of palyers dont play to win the same way you do. For example all the ledge camping ppl play to win in any way while the ppl that say ledge camping is gay are the ppl that play to win with "respect". In the end its the win that gets you the respect not how you win. In this case most ppl wanna win but not in the ledge camping way. if that makes sense. I currently play without spamming but everyday im starting to believe to paly to win and not to play to earn respect. cuz winning in general earns you respect Haha hope this helps.
 

Alopex

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You've all been a lot of help and have given me plenty of food for thought.

I definitely know what you're talking about, Kown.

I was definitely always on the side of honor, because it always seemed like that's how people played Melee. At least from what I recall, all the good Foxes never resorted to laser spam. Some Falco's might've, but I think the best ones never really needed to.

But Brawl's a different game, and I just think that competitive players need to swallow that hard pill of going down the cheap path. Brawl is just a cheaper game in general, what with all the chaingrabbing that exists, and I don't think we should be afraid of adapting to it.


Still, if I had the choice, I'd much rather play without the spam. If all my competitors thought the same, I think the game would be overall more fun. As it is, I think you and I are on the same page, Kown, so it was cool to get your opinion on it. You do what you gotta do.


Regardless, though, I think Sage and UndrDog have managed to enlighten me about the benefits of the direct approach.

So as much as I support the appropriate arrow spam, I might still be overestimating it somewhat due to my less-than-perfect grasp on Powershield timing.


Oh, UndrDog, I just spent some time practicing the multiple Powershield against Pit's Fsmashes, and it wasn't anywhere near as hard as I was anticipating. Very doable. Hardest part is making the proper prediction. But I guess that comes with knowing your opponent. At least against Pit, his attacks come out way too fast for me to wait for any indicative start-up animation. Gotta use the instincts.


Hey, this has been a great conversation. Totally worth leaving lurker status for.
Especially cool to chat with you, Sage. Cause your videos were the ones that got me started down the Pit path.
 

Ryos4

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Okay... i just saw a few of his videos and didnt read anyones comments, but wow he sure likes to shoot arrows. lol.

Okay fine i read some of the replies. About playing defensive. I hate playing defensive. Though i probably play a bit over aggressive at times. Though was it just me or was his style relatively easy to read.
 

sagemoon

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it wasnt just you. His style chould be read like a childs book. He either arrowed or sh fair/bair. or d-tilt. Since hes masashi though he made it work lol
 

choknater

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very interesting response to the videos in this thread

i don't happen to main pit, i was just surprised to see masashi playing pit so well. i take it undrdog is one of the prime authorities on the pit boards, so i'm going to take his word for what he said about masashi being smart but hasn't yet mastered everything as a pit main. i'm guessing he might not have access to such a lush database of info as we have here on the pit specific forum?

i think he is quite good, and not just because of what i saw. i think he's good for getting 3rd at a 92-man tournament, the biggest tournament in japan with the best players.
 

Undrdog

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The way one plays Pit comes down to individual theory. And of course in theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. So my advice is to practice as we all know practice makes perfect. And if it doesn't then you should probably rework your theory.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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There's one thing I want to point out:

It seems all the American Pits are knocking on Masashi's use of arrow spamming. This makes it appear to me that, in general, American Pits don't make much use of arrow spamming outside of using it for edgeguarding.

This is evident in videos I've seen that feature Kupo, Sagemoon, Skip, Kown, and Aisengobay.

Masashi, however, makes far more prolific use of arrows. However, he's not as generally skilled as the American players listed above are.

This means American players are generally better players who turn their back on the arrow spam.


Frankly, I think all you American players who shrug off the arrow spam are severely crippling your game. There is no reason why you shouldn't completely exploit your huge ranged advantage while at the time using all the skills and techniques, I've seen you all display, for when they manage to successfully approach you. Outside from "honor," that is. But honor doesn't win tournaments.

There is no need for Pit to approach anyone ever. Everyone knows that approaching is dangerous as hell is Brawl, and whoever has to approach always starts at an initial disadvantage.
Arrows are the best projectile in the game, all factors considered, and I don't think anyone can really dispute that. And the shield is the best reflector in the game, allowing redirection of opponents, protection from non-projectiles, as well as prolonged holding duration.

Even against reflective characters, you win. Start a spam and you start mindgames with your ability to change your arrow's direction mid-charge as well as mid-air. Any reflective character who plays defensively will be ready for an arrow, it doesn't become hard to take easy advantage of their ending lag on their reflective/absorbing moves with an easy approach that way.


So what I want to know is:

Why don't I see any of you competitive Pit mains use the arrow spamming to a much larger degree, using it in synergy with your combat skills?
To me, it's the most effective playstyle. Making full use of your techs and combat skills when your opponent has approached, and using the arrows to make them approach.

Pit doesn't need to approach! He's the best camper in the game because he's so good at being on the offensive as soon as you enter his camp. Why not make the best of both worlds?

Fights against Marth especially... why wouldn't you spam him first before eventually facing the range and power of his sword?
EXTRA OLD; I know, but w/ good disscussions and whatnot. Check it out!

& I have never seen those particular Masashi vids even though they were when he 1st started out.
 

link2702

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lol...back when folks thought pit had to be super flashy with arrow looping tricks and the like, instead of realizing that his arrow spam and camping potential were some of the best in the game....
 

dualseeker

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Pit: One of the greatest Heroes of our time
I do spam Arrows a lot because I know that they are Pits best asset. Of course, this has caused me to get many haters in the OTL because of my spamyiness XD. But still, people should make extensive use of Arrows because they are one of Pits best tools. But any Pit main should know this already.
 

Sky Pirate

The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
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EDIT: Please delete, just realized that this topic's REALLY old.
 
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