Marth's up-smash stagespike/bounce

[IDK]

NOW BEING TESTED BY XANDER AND FURTHER DISCUSSED ON HIS NEW THREAD. Marth can stagespike some characters with his upsmash. It works best IMO on the top floor of spear pillar (smashville is pretty good too, but try SP first) against Meta Knight.

say they are hanging on the edge out of their invincibility. You run up to the edge, do a running (not required to be running) up smash, and they get stagespiked to their death.

We are all testing ATM to find out who it works on and on what stages. I do credit this discovery to myself, but i won't go saying i didn't do it without help. Xander and zero5 helped test it after the discovery and xander even found that they dont have to be holding the edge to do it. they can be just about to grab it and still get stagespiked. Some characters get hit but just bounce off and not die.

It turns out that it's marth's foot hitbox from the upsmash that hits them towards you and they are shot at the edge and stagespiked. I figure this is because when on the ground and trying to upsmash someone, the foot hitbox pulls them towards you so the sword can hit them without them being in the air.

We are still trying to think of a name, but haven't had any suggestions. anyone have any ideas yet? To see the testing you can read through the posts on my thread or xander's new one. However, the testing on neither of our threads is near complete. So don't go saying it isn't useful because it doesn't work on enough characters. They aren't all useful. Also, if you think it is too situational, read through the posts on this one. You may find you change your mind.

 

[takeurlife2]

well, guess that's why no one uses spear pillar lolz, but its worth testing on other stages.

 

[Froth]

sounds pretty good

 

[EvoLoNN]

Sounds cool. Are those the only 2 stages that you've tested it with?

 

[AcidJazz]

I think there are better options than this. It's way too easy to get around. I see it failing a lot more than not against a good player.

 

[Pierce7d]

This is interesting. I was wondering about Usmash edgeguarding because of it's ground hitboxes. I just got home a little while go, and I haven't been around for a few days (I've been on Smashboards, but not home), so I'll test this later.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

this looks good, and i'm not at home just like Pierc7d, so I'll have to try it out later this week when I get back. Something like this that can work also if you wait until after invincibility frames run out, and then you dtilt, jump off the stage, footstool, and then dair spike them to their death, just make sure you can get back on the stage so you don't die too.

 

[Ced5000]

ill try this out a bit later if I have time, sounds good though

 

[Froth]

Have you tested it on any other characters?

 

[iao]

Also works on BF. I did it on a Luigi.

 

[Shaya]

If you're very good at timing you can just dair/meteor strike people hanging on the edge if their invicibility is gone. Without even going off the edge...

 

[zero5]

i kinda tested this and it works on FD Smashville and BF.. or any stage with an angle below the ledge

apparently (sp?) lol.. marth has a hitbox where his feet are and it comes out quick.. right before the actual blade hitbox.. i found out that you have to hit your opponent when the invincibility frames are out (duh....) and aim for your opponents hand or head..

with further testing i found that the foot hitbox has a set knockback.. so it can give you a potential kill at any percentage..

i will test teching but it seems to me its kinda hard to tech out of..

keep this thread bumped or sticky plz.. or place a link in one of the archives..


UPDATE!!
i did a test.. just a quick one.. and here are the results..

the test was done on Smashville on both sides of the stage (figured out they were both different angles)

i also figured out that its not the hand you have to go for its your opponents head you have to hit..

these results only show which characters get hit by matrh's foot hitbox alright.. here we go

Hits
Mario
Jiggs
Luigi
Sheik
DK
Kirby
Fox
Wolf
Falco
G&W
MK
Charizard
Ivysaur
Peach
Yoshi
ICs
DDD
Lucario
Ness
Lucas
Bowser
Wario
TL
ROB

Hits but no stage spike
Pikachu
Olimar

Doesn't Hit
Link
Samus
Diddy
Zelda
CF
Marth
Ike
Snake
Gannon
Sonic
Squirtle
Pit
ZSS

IMPORTANT NOTE!!!
Some of the characters that you can hit are harder to hit that others.. for example ROB.. you have to wait until he tries to pull himself up then you do it.. you will be able to hit his head at that point.. don't wait till your opponent tries to recover.. that's not what i mean.. ROB has a certain animation while hanging on the ledge.. go do it and watch and you will know what i mean.. also with the space animals you kinda aim for the hand and that will be enough spacing you need for it to hit.. as for others you need to be at the edge of the stage for the attack to connect.. what will be all for now.. thank you!

and yes i am very OCD about the double dots (..) haha! >_<

 

[zero5]

bumpity bump

 

[BladeWise]

looks interesting.

 

[xXZeroXx]

Well it works and it's not necessary to do a run to Up-smash, just use U-smash on the edge and they will be stage spiked. It's more useful than Dair in the floor (since that can be seen by your opponent). Nice discover

 

[Ciel~Image]

Run to UpSmash will obviously be faster and more likely to catch someone hanging there.

 

[IDK]

this looks good, and i'm not at home just like Pierc7d, so I'll have to try it out later this week when I get back. Something like this that can work also if you wait until after invincibility frames run out, and then you dtilt, jump off the stage, footstool, and then dair spike them to their death, just make sure you can get back on the stage so you don't die too.

yet this is recoverable and much more difficult.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

True, but it still works, and isn't recoverable if the tip hits on the dair and you spike, nice find, I agree yours is a better idea, i was just adding another possible tactic. Nice find!


*edit* and footstool sets up good spacing for the sweetspot spike.

 

[Anth0ny]

This works, and it's pretty awesome. Too bad it's not often that your opponent is in the position to make this effective.

 

[Ciel~Image]

I'd like to see some (more) "pro" opinions on this.

 

[IDK]

thanks zero5 for all the testing, but now i am sort of wondering what other stages it works on.

 

[leechaolan]

Someone needs to make a youtube of this.

 

[zero5]

thanks zero5 for all the testing, but now i am sort of wondering what other stages it works on.

you're welcome.. and thank you bigmack209 for the find..

the spike works on any stage with an angle below the ledge.. for example i'm gonna sketch this out

___ <-- like this
__/

haha.. looks alright..

i tested more stages and i found out that.. Smashville, BF, Orpheon (left side, first part), Castle Seige (3rd part) works.. i don't know if i missed stuff i only play on stages that are considered tournament legal on the boards..

other than that.. it hits regardless of the stage being angled or not but its best used at a stage with one.. obviously for the stage spike..
if you do use it at a non-angled stage it just hits your opponent in front of you.. about the same spacing as a forward throw around 50-80 percent (this is a really rough estimate) this can be used as a set up.. but i'm not so sure because of the lag after you do a usmash

Someone needs to make a youtube of this.

i can make a video of this.. because my friend has the equipment.. and i probably will have it out within a week..

 

[IDK]

sounds awesome. i'm excited to have the video up so more people know about it. oh and what i was wondering about the stages is that on some it will hit them, but they can recover. i was also thinking last night about a name for this. anyone have a suggestion?

 

[zero5]

sounds awesome. i'm excited to have the video up so more people know about it. oh and what i was wondering about the stages is that on some it will hit them, but they can recover. i was also thinking last night about a name for this. anyone have a suggestion?

ok about the recovery.. for the characters that can jump out of a hit stun quickly.. they have a chance to recover.. well most characters have a chance to recover.. and not all are an instant kill.. it really depends on the stage and if it has deep or shallow bottom.. i believe on BF all characters have a slight chance to recover.. fliers can recover.. and once again i don't think % matters since marths foot has a set knockback.. but i need to test that..

as for a name.. i don't know but since it revolves around marths foot hitbox.. maybe.. uhh.. foot spike?.. LOL.. suggestions anyone?

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I guess this is yet another thing I have to keep in mind. Too bad for me, Kirby is on the "hit" list.

I guess this is a decent find...

 

[zero5]

I guess this is yet another thing I have to keep in mind. Too bad for me, Kirby is on the "hit" list.

I guess this is a decent find...

honestly don't be too scared about it.. its really hard for it to connect.. and its very very very situational.. you won't find any good marth players depending on it..

 

[Saltix]

Nice. Maybe if I practice it enough, I can pick Marth back up :]

 

[IDK]

you're right. it is situational and i have yet to do it in-game, (i haven't really tried... i forget haha) but every once in a while you will get it off. and if its a MK they're dead. on spear pillar when my friend julian tried to recover he couldnt. thats really what i was hoping for. i guess just hitting them could be useful for a little quick damage unexpectedly... and if they don't know about it they might die even with the chance to recover because they wouldn't expect it.

 

[Mighty_mo76]

So all i have to do is say, "Hey, you'll unlock the ultimate move if you hang on the edge for 5 seconds"
and then just do a running usmash. Right?

Sounds easy enough...

Seriously, sounds very interesting. I'll look into implementing this into my game.

 

[DAzn2341]

Yeah I did this last night by complete accident, it felt amazing because it was to win the game. An intense game. Oh yeah, and it was on BF

 

[IDK]

So all i have to do is say, "Hey, you'll unlock the ultimate move if you hang on the edge for 5 seconds"
and then just do a running usmash. Right?

Sounds easy enough...

Seriously, sounds very interesting. I'll look into implementing this into my game.

sounds nubby for me not knowing exactly how long the invincibility really is... but i think they only have to be on there for like 2 seconds.

 

[Hype]

i kinda tested this and it works on FD Smashville and BF.. or any stage with an angle below the ledge

apparently (sp?) lol.. marth has a hitbox where his feet are and it comes out quick.. right before the actual blade hitbox.. i found out that you have to hit your opponent when the invincibility frames are out (duh....) and aim for your opponents hand or head..

with further testing i found that the foot hitbox has a set knockback.. so it can give you a potential kill at any percentage..

i will test teching but it seems to me its kinda hard to tech out of..

keep this thread bumped or sticky plz.. or place a link in one of the archives..


UPDATE!!
i did a test.. just a quick one.. and here are the results..

the test was done on Smashville on both sides of the stage (figured out they were both different angles)

i also figured out that its not the hand you have to go for its your opponents head you have to hit..

these results only show which characters get hit by matrh's foot hitbox alright.. here we go

Hits
Mario
Jiggs
Luigi
Sheik
DK
Kirby
Fox
Wolf
Falco
G&W
MK
Charizard
Ivysaur
Peach
Yoshi
ICs
DDD
Lucario
Ness
Lucas
Bowser
Wario
TL
ROB

Hits but no stage spike
Pikachu
Olimar

Doesn't Hit
Link
Samus
Diddy
Zelda
CF
Marth
Ike
Snake
Gannon
Sonic
Squirtle
Pit
ZSS

IMPORTANT NOTE!!!
Some of the characters that you can hit are harder to hit that others.. for example ROB.. you have to wait until he tries to pull himself up then you do it.. you will be able to hit his head at that point.. don't wait till your opponent tries to recover.. that's not what i mean.. ROB has a certain animation while hanging on the ledge.. go do it and watch and you will know what i mean.. also with the space animals you kinda aim for the hand and that will be enough spacing you need for it to hit.. as for others you need to be at the edge of the stage for the attack to connect.. what will be all for now.. thank you!

and yes i am very OCD about the double dots (..) haha! >_<

The list of charaters that can be staged spiked by this move on smashville is different for other maps. It doesn't work on MK on FD.

 

[Anth0ny]

I did some testing in training mode with this. The same amount of knockback is applied when your opponent has 0% and when your opponent has 999% :/

Of course, this was with no DI, so I'm pretty sure that the only way this could kill is if your opponent is caught completely off guard or simply cant recover from that far. MK definately could.

 

[IDK]

The list of charaters that can be staged spiked by this move on smashville is different for other maps. It doesn't work on MK on FD.

this means all together this discovery will take a LOT of total testing. variations of every character on each stage.

I did some testing in training mode with this. The same amount of knockback is applied when your opponent has 0% and when your opponent has 999% :/

Of course, this was with no DI, so I'm pretty sure that the only way this could kill is if your opponent is caught completely off guard or simply cant recover from that far. MK definately could.

MK can't always recover. if you read what i said about my friend julian on spear pillar... we tried a bunch of times with normal and/or smash DI while we tried smashing jump or upb or even meteor cancel on a rare chance. and because this is new, nobody will likely expect it for a while.

 

[e__]

This still would be great for the game in general. A MK trying hard to recover from the bottom of the stage is even more susceptible to be edge guarded.

 

[xandeR-]

This is mind bogglingly useful for this reason that hasn't been mentioned in the thread:

You do not need to wait for them to grab the ledge and hold for x seconds.

If you hit them with it as they reach the edge, the same effect occurs.

Go try it. It works.

I've got it working on Mario here and there. The timing is a little odd. It doesn't spike him though, merely bounces him off the stage. I gotta try other chars.

OLIMAR = SPIKED.
DeDeDe works too!
G&W: works
Pikachu: works
Marth: works
Sonic: works

Snake does the same thing Mario does. However, that bounce basically screams "D-air spike me!"

Btw: I was doing this on a mix of BF and Smashville.

We need a new list for early spikes. Other characters work here.

This is something significant here if we can get the timing down.

 

[armalite]

i can make a video of this.. because my friend has the equipment.. and i probably will have it out within a week..

lol I'm not bringing it over to your house, I'm lazy :embarrass. JuL told me that you guys were testing this out, so we tested it out today at my house. We tried to see how it could be applied to certain situations and if there was a way to set it up to make it "less situational".

I tried a few applications, on Smashville against a Wario.
It worked when:
1. The opponent (Wario) attempted to ledgehop back onto the stage and starts to move up against the side of the stage before grabbing the edge.
2. Wario was on the very edge of the stage, Jab him off then do a running Usmash as he hops up towards the stage. Dtilt off the stage works too. This was to closest we got as far as getting an actual setup going and worked on certain percentages so that he didn't grab the edge or fall too far back when knocked off.

These were incredibly hard to do due to the fact that you have to predict when your opponent is going to jump then time your running Usmash before they grab the edge and keep in mind that the other player may outplay smart you by stalling a little bit before jump towards the stage, airdodge, using their UpB right away to sweetspot, and other things.

This is all we did so far because JuL had to go but I think we did pretty good with only 20 minutes to work with. We tested Wario because we were originally going to test this on his UpB because it doesn't auto-sweetspot the edge and we tested that too but I don't remember if we pulled it off XD I think it was because we eventually gave up because it was too hard. I'll try to test and polish this out more when I get the chance.

 

[zero5]

The list of charaters that can be staged spiked by this move on smashville is different for other maps. It doesn't work on MK on FD.

i said in my post that this is the list of characters that get hit by marths foot..

plz read.. (-_-)

 

[zero5]

first of all.. thanks to all of you who did some extra testing..

lol I'm not bringing it over to your house, I'm lazy :embarrass. JuL told me that you guys were testing this out, so we tested it out today at my house. We tried to see how it could be applied to certain situations and if there was a way to set it up to make it "less situational".

I tried a few applications, on Smashville against a Wario.
It worked when:
1. The opponent (Wario) attempted to ledgehop back onto the stage and starts to move up against the side of the stage before grabbing the edge.
2. Wario was on the very edge of the stage, Jab him off then do a running Usmash as he hops up towards the stage. Dtilt off the stage works too. This was to closest we got as far as getting an actual setup going and worked on certain percentages so that he didn't grab the edge or fall too far back when knocked off.

These were incredibly hard to do due to the fact that you have to predict when your opponent is going to jump then time your running Usmash before they grab the edge and keep in mind that the other player may outplay smart you by stalling a little bit before jump towards the stage, airdodge, using their UpB right away to sweetspot, and other things.

This is all we did so far because JuL had to go but I think we did pretty good with only 20 minutes to work with. We tested Wario because we were originally going to test this on his UpB because it doesn't auto-sweetspot the edge and we tested that too but I don't remember if we pulled it off XD I think it was because we eventually gave up because it was too hard. I'll try to test and polish this out more when I get the chance.

LOL.. bring the equipment next time!!.. lets get that video up..

This is mind bogglingly useful for this reason that hasn't been mentioned in the thread:

You do not need to wait for them to grab the ledge and hold for x seconds.

If you hit them with it as they reach the edge, the same effect occurs.

Go try it. It works.

I've got it working on Mario here and there. The timing is a little odd. It doesn't spike him though, merely bounces him off the stage. I gotta try other chars.

OLIMAR = SPIKED.
DeDeDe works too!
G&W: works
Pikachu: works
Marth: works
Sonic: works

Snake does the same thing Mario does. However, that bounce basically screams "D-air spike me!"

Btw: I was doing this on a mix of BF and Smashville.

We need a new list for early spikes. Other characters work here.

This is something significant here if we can get the timing down.

olimar got spiked?.. really.. what stage?

I did some testing in training mode with this. The same amount of knockback is applied when your opponent has 0% and when your opponent has 999% :/

Of course, this was with no DI, so I'm pretty sure that the only way this could kill is if your opponent is caught completely off guard or simply cant recover from that far. MK definately could.

yeah just as i thought.. ty