Marth's up-smash stagespike/bounce

[xandeR-]

That was on BF I believe. I don't remember. It was late last night and I just woke up. >.<


The timing on the **** thing is very tricky in real combat. I was trying it on computers last night before I went to bed. However, the timing on everything is tricky so I'm sure with practice we can figure it out.

What I was finding was that if you hit them with the foot hitbox, it greatly depends on like where you are and where they are. Sometimes I'd get a full out stage spike and sometimes they'd bounce off the stage and pop into the air. Both results are favorable for Marth so that's not really a problem I guess.

 

[IDK]

lol I'm not bringing it over to your house, I'm lazy :embarrass. JuL told me that you guys were testing this out, so we tested it out today at my house. We tried to see how it could be applied to certain situations and if there was a way to set it up to make it "less situational".

I tried a few applications, on Smashville against a Wario.
It worked when:
1. The opponent (Wario) attempted to ledgehop back onto the stage and starts to move up against the side of the stage before grabbing the edge.
2. Wario was on the very edge of the stage, Jab him off then do a running Usmash as he hops up towards the stage. Dtilt off the stage works too. This was to closest we got as far as getting an actual setup going and worked on certain percentages so that he didn't grab the edge or fall too far back when knocked off.

These were incredibly hard to do due to the fact that you have to predict when your opponent is going to jump then time your running Usmash before they grab the edge and keep in mind that the other player may outplay smart you by stalling a little bit before jump towards the stage, airdodge, using their UpB right away to sweetspot, and other things.

This is all we did so far because JuL had to go but I think we did pretty good with only 20 minutes to work with. We tested Wario because we were originally going to test this on his UpB because it doesn't auto-sweetspot the edge and we tested that too but I don't remember if we pulled it off XD I think it was because we eventually gave up because it was too hard. I'll try to test and polish this out more when I get the chance.

wow nice... i never even thought about trying to set this up... you know how sometimes when you start a ken combo near the middle of the stage at low percentages they grab the edge? maybe you could do it from this? after they grab it and run out of invincibility or maybe just right BEFORE they grab it.

EDIT: oh, and this is building up to be a pretty good thread... so when we get this all tested out and put a video up i'll edit my first post with all the testing, a link to the video, and anything else... so people don't have to look through the entire thing. 'course they can if they want to...

 

[xandeR-]

Bump.

This needs more extensive testing. I've been trying to nail the timing on it so I can actually know when I throw the u-smash.

I'll post when I know exactly when.

 

[Cloudstealth]

Seriously guys? This only works if your opponent is dumb enough to stay on the ledge too long, it will never work in a tournament.

People have invincibility frames, and good players know how to use them, to get a free safe attack while recovering. Don't use this as your match breaker, but for fun it's awsome.

No Pro player is gonna sit there and wait for this to happen. Not that they'd even sit there to begin with.

 

[xandeR-]

Seriously guys? This only works if your opponent is dumb enough to stay on the ledge too long, it will never work in a tournament.

People have invincibility frames, and good players know how to use them, to get a free safe attack while recovering. Don't use this as your match breaker, but for fun it's awsome.

No Pro player is gonna sit there and wait for this to happen. Not that they'd even sit there to begin with.

Not the case man. You didn't see what I posted. It works right before they grab the ledge too.

So, for example, if you sliding u-smash to the edge as someone is about to snag it, it should stage spike them.

The timing's just a bit tricky.

 

[Cisne]

How big is the hitbox of Upsmash to hit down there ?

The timing must be perfect ( so so hard ) to make it work .I dont think that the hitbox is that big, big enough to be easy.

I prefer a safer option that doesnt leave me open.

 

[xandeR-]

It's honestly not that bad.

When I do it by myself, I hit the spike like 8/10 times. It's just in battle that I'm trying to get used to it.

The hitbox is pretty big to be honest with you. I mean, it's hitting them below the ledge. Go try it yourself if you haven't. It's not hard to duplicate.

 

[IDK]

Seriously guys? This only works if your opponent is dumb enough to stay on the ledge too long, it will never work in a tournament.

People have invincibility frames, and good players know how to use them, to get a free safe attack while recovering. Don't use this as your match breaker, but for fun it's awsome.

No Pro player is gonna sit there and wait for this to happen. Not that they'd even sit there to begin with.

when you think of it that way, you're mostly right. but sometimes people slip up and sit there for a millisecond too long.

 

[IDK]

oh, and i finally got in one of these in a match. against my friend's brother's DK (donkey) on smashville. before, i just forgot i could do it... but now i'm beginning to remember to do it. in the semi-rare case i am given the opportunity.

 

[Keblerelf]

Couldn't you do something similar to this with melee marth?

 

[The Star King]

Most players wouldn't hang on the edge long enough for their invincibility to stop, when you are on the stage. Not very useful.

 

[xandeR-]

Please read the whole thread.

We know people don't usually sit there for that long.


However, people grab the ledge in front of me hundreds of times and this still works right before they grab the ledge.

 

[Cloudstealth]

Not the case man. You didn't see what I posted. It works right before they grab the ledge too.

So, for example, if you sliding u-smash to the edge as someone is about to snag it, it should stage spike them.

The timing's just a bit tricky.

That's a valid point, but in the same aspect, better players don't waste their second jump to grab the ledge. They know some characters like G&W plus few more can Dash attack that will stage spike them, through the stage. So even jumping to grab the ledge isn't safe.

when you think of it that way, you're mostly right. but sometimes people slip up and sit there for a millisecond too long.

Your right as well, sometimes people jump too early, or do something unsafe. And if I see a pattern I'll go for the stage spike too, because this could always be a nice free kill.

Yes I do try it, and it always gimps space animals which is fun.

When anyone UPBs though, i've never gotten it to hit.
Any ideas on who's UPB you could outprioritize with this?

 

[Mighty_mo76]

Yes its kinda hard for me to remember to do it. But when i do it, its great!

 

[~Dogma~]

this has worked very well for me when my opponents were about to ledhop atk me

 

[armalite]

When anyone UPBs though, i've never gotten it to hit.
Any ideas on who's UPB you could outprioritize with this?

I've tested Wario's UpB again it works. Timing is very hard though, doing it too early or late will get you caught in it. I was only able to land it like twice out of 20 attempts. When it does connect you still get by his UpB but he'll still get spiked.

For the record this can be teched, but who sees this coming anyway? Try using this when your opponent is ledgehopping back onto the stage, especially those with slow ledgehop attacks (i.e. Bowser or Ike maybe?). Try to study their habits when their on the edge and see if you can predict then punish.


I haven't had the chance to use this in a real game yet. I'll see how it works out when I do.

 

[Drephen]

I've done this a few times already =)

its a good move =)

 

[DKKountry]

Good to know.

 

[IDK]

yeah it works well on ledgehops too. but seriously, stop making xander repeat himself. if you're gonna just come on here to get your post count up go somewhere else. if you're gonna make a statement, READ THE THREAD FIRST!

 

[xandeR-]

yeah it works well on ledgehops too. but seriously, stop making xander repeat himself. if you're gonna just come on here to get your post count up go somewhere else. if you're gonna make a statement, READ THE THREAD FIRST!

I won't get tired of it. >.<

Haven't had much time to dedicate to this lately but I will soon hopefully.

I've decided to get back into Smash again after a long period of inactivity so you'll see me around here a lot more. :-D

 

[IDK]

sounds good. so lets get some testing in to this. so far my hope that this could be done with other character's upsmashes has... well... gone away. we already sort of know which characters it works on, but some of them will die on final d and some wont. some that die on final d don't die on smashville. so let's find out who dies where.

 

[xandeR-]

I'd prefer that this was a Marth only tech. >.<

That way it's our thing only!

And regarding, where the tech works, we also need to make sure that it not working somewhere is not just poor timing on our part.


It's also worth mentioning that this manuever, even if it doesn't "work", is still an excellent idea to use on any stage on any character.

Snake, for example, doesn't stage spike on one stage I tried for him. However, he does hit the side of the stage and bounce OUT a bit. It's almost a perfect setup for a dair and that should be highlighted once this is all sorted out.

 

[xandeR-]

ANNOUNCEMENT!


I'm currently testing each character's reactions to this and will be posting my own thread with all the results once I'm done.

 

[IDK]

feel free to continue posting here... and we can use xander's thread as a place to post test results.

 

[Pasqual]

Any difference if you're facing backwards/away from the edge using his other foot, perchance? It's worth testing at least, as if it was as/more effective as a normal one you'd be able to roll to the edge and usmash out of shield or do a running reverse usmash.

 

[IDK]

running reverse usmash? and cool good idea. i'll test it tomorrow if nobody has done it by then.

 

[xandeR-]

Works both ways. Doesn't matter. Sometimes the angle does. But it only slightly changes the result.

By the way: my thread is done! Every character has been tested and placed in a handy list. I've briefly described how and where to use the tech as well as some other info on it. A video will be posted tomorrow to show how the tech works.

 

[Pasqual]

running reverse usmash? and cool good idea. i'll test it tomorrow if nobody has done it by then.

Er, my bad. I meant reverse boost smash.

Works both ways. Doesn't matter. Sometimes the angle does. But it only slightly changes the result.

So pretty much the same result, okay.