Marth/Roy, Should They Make The Cut?

[NeoFalconHavok]

Smash, ive never heard anything besides good stuff. Whoever said they suck must be rare.

 

[Wiseguy]

If they do end up removing the noble of sapphire, then they might as well omit Mario, DK for that matter, Samus, since original chars don't seem to be coming back(say that with sarcasm)...and many others who represent the games they belonged to.

Except that Mario, Dk and Samus are the most prominent charcaters in their repective series. Fire Emblem games are largely self contained (with unique worlds and characters) so the series lacks one clear cut representative. Marth isn't the Link of Fire Emblem, because he hasn't apeared in a Fire Emblem game in over a decade and the majority of Fire Emblem fans will never play his games because Nintendo hasn't saw fit to release them to anyone outside of Japan.

I say Marth doesn't deserve to be Fire Emblem's representative anymore. He should be replaced by Ike.

 

[cu00x19]

It's true that Marth hasn't seen a FE game since the...3rd, was it?, but the majority of the FE franchise takes place in the same universe, only on different continents.. Same world, different place...hmmmm

That seems to have made my arguement contradictory. Lolz!

But yes, Ike should see Brawl, but IMO keep Marth, cuz he's a prick.>> "Everyone, look at me!"

~Life

 

[NeoFalconHavok]

Marth is the first star of the whole series. Just because he hasn't seen action in years doesn't mean he cant be the rep for the series. Simon Belmont is declared the most famous belmont and he's only seen 2 games of action.

 

[Red Exodus]

It's been a decade since Marth had a game? Lol he should be a retro character then.

Anyway, they should both return, they are both great characters to play as and they opened the door for other FE characters to come through, the less Sakurai could do is leave them in, even if tone is a clone.

 

[AthrunZala]

marth should be in the next one. though he hasnt had a game out in a long time i believe (i might be wrong on this though) that his FE game has sold the best in japan. also he is a main used chara for melee.

roy has a lot of potential however i dont think he will be back. i think he will be replaced by ike. more known in the us is ike then roy is. however that is where it comes to question. will nintendo try to go with who north amrica wants or who japan wants. though i think both should return.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Marth is the first star of the whole series. Just because he hasn't seen action in years doesn't mean he cant be the rep for the series. Simon Belmont is declared the most famous belmont and he's only seen 2 games of action.

Simon was a main player in no fewer than eight games, and has appeared in many others.

Once again, we Yanks haven't played Marth's games, and we most likely never will. To the majority, Marth is more of a Melee character than a Fire Emblem one. We have other viable options now, and there's too much working against both characters to warrant their retainment.

 

[GreenMarth]

The two characters look very similar and would probably have nearly identical fighting styles. The one difference? Ike doesn't look like a girl.

....sadly this is true, i agree

though marth is cool and very classic (ya know the first three or whatever games)

do you want marth in the game or just dont care if hes in or not as long as Ike is in

 

[Johnknight1]

Simon was a main player in no fewer than eight games, and has appeared in many others.

Once again, we Yanks haven't played Marth's games, and we most likely never will. To the majority, Marth is more of a Melee character than a Fire Emblem one. We have other viable options now, and there's too much working against both characters to warrant their retainment.

We could see FE 1 & 3 via the Wii Virtual Console (yae VC!), and you never know. I seriously doubt Marth's cut, and I think Roy's chances are at about half and half.

If Marth returns, he'll basically be the same, whereas if Roy returns (with Marth) he'll probably use a lot more power attacks, and have a more power-based moveset than before. I am positive Ike will be in, and it is confirmed that there will be Fire Emblem characters.

Marth's removal would damage the SSBB tourney circuit, considering Roy, Fox, and Falco are basically the three most used characters in tourney. Solid points Chief, but the tournament circuit would never be the same, even if Ike was a lot like Marth, he'll never be as big in Japan as Marth is.

 

[GreenMamba]

The tourney circuit of Melee =/= the tourney circuit of Brawl. It's not even worth bringing that up as a point.

 

[Chief Mendez]

The tourney circuit of Melee =/= the tourney circuit of Brawl. It's not even worth bringing that up as a point.

Quoted for truth.

Don't bet on any of the Japanese FEs showing up on the VC. FE games take a long time to localize, the Treehouse has better things to do, and more importantly...those games suck. English speakers started with the FE equivalent of Metroid Fusion. Going back and trying to play FE1 (or the original Metroid) after first playing FE7 is a very painful experience. And it's not like we're missing anything, anyways.

 

[freakout1070]

Marth will come.

He will.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Marth will come.

He will.

Sure he'll come...to the "Better Luck Next Time" consolatory party! Zing!

 

[Caael]

Sure he'll come...to the "Better Luck Next Time" consolatory party! Zing!

Nah, Marth is basically the face of Fire Emblem. Plus he's awesome, so I hope to be seeing him.

But Roy was only in Melee to advertise the new FE game in Japan, so I highly doubt he will be in the game. Hopefully somebody more deserving, like Lyn.
C'mon, we have enough sword lords in the game, Lyn uses a BOW as well as a sword. Thats right. It's nice to have some variation in the characters, which is why melee wasnt too well recieved by me, with its clones.

 

[GenG]

Marth reapparition isn't debatable, it's just that simple. Monshou no Nazo has been released for the Virtual Console, and he is the star of the FE museum in FE World (Nintendo Japan FE site).

Plus the castle stage in the trailer (yes, I love getting repetitive with this) is his. And he was (and is) the most successful and popular character in Melee.

 

[Kirye]

GenG wins, that added even more chances for Marth to reappear in Brawl.

That and his castle being in the beginning made it easy enough to know that it'd be Marth who'd be returning. No matter what some may think, Marth IS Mr. Fire Emblem.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Marth is not "the face of Fire Emblem." Sorry, but he's just not. As has been said before, there's very little continuity in the series. Saying that is like saying Cloud is "Mr. Final Fantasy."

And I thought Wiseguy'd brought it up enough times...but that castle could be a Daein stronghold just as easily as a castle from one of Marth's games. Keeping in a character and/or stage from such a long time ago, when more recent, better games have been releasedworldwide, would be like using Link's model from A Link to the Past instead of Twilight Princess. It's not going to happen.

Monshou no Nazo has been released for the Virtual Console, and he is the star of the FE museum in FE World (Nintendo Japan FE site).

Well, Bonk's Adventure (and Bonk's Revenge, yay!) have been released on the American VC, but that doesn't mean we're going to see Bonk in Brawl. And I fail to see how starring in a Japanese-only website helps.

And he was (and is) the most successful and popular character in Melee.

That's a very bold statement. Maybe the most popular character the US had never seen before, but there's no way to judge which character in Melee is the most popular.

Plus, if he was so succesful, why haven't we seen mass recognition of FE 1 and 3?

 

[LukeFonFabre]

You can't really compare FE to FF about this. The first FF game had no characters, just classes which you chose from the beginning. FE's first game actually had a named character at the centre, who later returned for a second game. If anyone is the face of FE, it's Marth, there's no denying that.

And the Castle is not Daein's, the only reason why people think that is because PoR was the only game in 3D so it looks similar to scenes from there. The flags are completely different (don't give me this 'it's Sakurai's personal touch on it', the only similarity is the colour), and many people claim it's a reference to FE1-3, Marth's two games. People have also said that it's probably the planned stage Marth was going to have in melee, which seems to fit overall. I'm still going with generic castle from FE at the moment, though there are more hints to it being from Marth's game than it is Ike's. And your Link analogy is incredibly off, considering we're talking about a stage and not a character. I don't see why you need to prove it's from Daein anyway, we had a MM stage in melee, but Y.Link was modeled off his OoT skin instead, so it doesn't necessarily mean Marth's in anyway.

The VC and website just shows how important he still is in Japan, despite not appearing in a game for over a decade. Japan is Sakurai's target audience, so if the Japanese want Marth, then he'll give them Marth (which is exactly why he appeared in melee). And he really has no excuse to take him out, as everyone knows who Marth is, we all know he's from Fire Emblem, the only real issue is that his game hasn't been released outside Japan. But seeing how you and Wiseguy are the only people that hold this against him, I'd have to say it's a very minor issue.

 

[Chief Mendez]

You can't really compare FE to FF about this. The first FF game had no characters, just classes which you chose from the beginning. FE's first game actually had a named character at the centre, who later returned for a second game. If anyone is the face of FE, it's Marth, there's no denying that.

And the Castle is not Daein's, the only reason why people think that is because PoR was the only game in 3D so it looks similar to scenes from there. The flags are completely different (don't give me this 'it's Sakurai's personal touch on it', the only similarity is the colour), and many people claim it's a reference to FE1-3, Marth's two games. People have also said that it's probably the planned stage Marth was going to have in melee, which seems to fit overall. I'm still going with generic castle from FE at the moment, though there are more hints to it being from Marth's game than it is Ike's. And your Link analogy is incredibly off, considering we're talking about a stage and not a character. I don't see why you need to prove it's from Daein anyway, we had a MM stage in melee, but Y.Link was modeled off his OoT skin instead, so it doesn't necessarily mean Marth's in anyway.

Why can't I compare them? Both were really bare-boned in their initial installments...but that wasn't my point. My point was that both series have so many different characters from so many different universes, tied together only by consistent gameplay and symbols, so lebeling one character as a universal reperasentative of such a franchise doesn't work. Marth may be "the Fire Emblem guy" in Japan, and I accept that, but he's not everywhere else.

Then it's like using Ganon's Pyramid from LttP.

The VC and website just shows how important he still is in Japan, despite not appearing in a game for over a decade. Japan is Sakurai's target audience...

"In Japan".

I shudder to think that Sakurai would be so selfishly racist as to say "Japan is my target audience". Do Japanese travel hundreds of miles to attend "local" Smash Bros. tourneys? No. Was Melee always on the Japanese charts? No. He's said he doesn't want to include Japan-only fighters again, and guess what? The only reason he had to (far as FE goes) has been taken care of now that we have FE games in English.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

My point is that if anyone would be face of FF, it would've been the star of the first game, but there was't one. It also helps Marth's case that he has made more than one appearance as the cenrtal in the continuity, something none of the FF main characters have done.

How is Sakurai being racist if he's mainly catering to the national fanbase? If he really cared about the international audience as much, then why was his poll only available in Japan. Japan is his main audience, so he's not going to ignore them just to please the American fans. And he never said he isn't going to add any Japan only characters, but refrain from doing so (though he even commented that Marth and Roy's success meant that he may still do so). And I don't see how Japanese not going to tournaments or that Melee didn't stay longer in the charts is at all relevant, it's still the prime audience. And as I said, only you and Wiseguy care that Marth's game hasn't been released outside Japan and use it against him, no one else seems to mind.

And if we are going to be technical about it, Marth isn't Japan only anymore anyway, and is very likely more recognized worldwide than Ike.

 

[GreenMamba]

I think it's pretty laughable to think that any country has more influence over what FE characters will be in than Japan.

Japanese gamers grew up with the freaking franchise. They've had it since the beginning, they have had all ten games come to their shores. I think that they deserve to have quite a bit more influence on who gets in when it comes to Fire Emblem.

Put yourself in their shoes. How well would you take it if you grew up with the Fire Emblem franchise, and then had a bunch of people elsewhere who just got into the franchise saying that the characters you grew up with don't deserve to be in Brawl because they never had access to their games?

 

[GenG]

Marth is not "the face of Fire Emblem." Sorry, but he's just not. As has been said before, there's very little continuity in the series. Saying that is like saying Cloud is "Mr. Final Fantasy."

Your Cloud example is perfect. You may not like it, but Cloud is Mr. Fantasy right now wether we like it or not, is the kind of character that Square-Enix is promoting. See how the Final Fantasy characters are hierarchized in Kingdom Hearts: You have Cloud taking most of the screenplay. After him, you see guys like Squall or Tidus, but never Tina/Terra or Cecil.

Marth is Mr. Fire Emblem in Japan; I won't talk much about this, but he is one of the Fire Emblem characters with most recognition over there, with a lot of merchandising (manga, novels, dramas, trading card game and even a failed anime but inspired many of his moves and looks for Melee). The representative in the franchise not only for Nintendo but also for being the main character of the first SRPG ever. Starred 2 games, the second game being a remake with twice chapters to reinforce Fire Emblem dominance against many "copycats" in that era like Shining Force.

And then, Marth was the first Fire Emblem character playable overseas. You can't deny that. You may not have a nostalgia link with Marth like Japan does, but that's not enough reason to cut a successful characters worlwide (yes, he was shocking, he made Smash stylish).

And I thought Wiseguy'd brought it up enough times...but that castle could be a Daein stronghold just as easily as a castle from one of Marth's games. Keeping in a character and/or stage from such a long time ago, when more recent, better games have been releasedworldwide, would be like using Link's model from A Link to the Past instead of Twilight Princess. It's not going to happen.

If you are into old Fire Emblems, you may recognize that castle as the one for the last two chapters, surrounded of mountains, forests and catapults. In the last chapter, the fight moved into the castle, and in the trailers indeed we see the interiors of the castle, the throne room (were the fight against Medeus reached its climax). Then, the flags of the castle is representing a black standing dragon: That's Medeus. That flag appeared in the anime (take a look here), but this one has the the Sakurai touch. That stage could also be the fabled Akaneia stage which couldn't be finished for Melee, so they likely grabbed what they had made and tuned up the graphics: Somehow it was the best looking stage in the first trailer.
As a whole that stage is one of the most climatic stages in Fire Emblem history, so it makes sense.

And that couldn't be Daein. Daein's flag is totally diferent, and Daein is a cold, snowy kingdom compared to the sunny Akaneia.

Well, Bonk's Adventure (and Bonk's Revenge, yay!) have been released on the American VC, but that doesn't mean we're going to see Bonk in Brawl.

You are like mixing totally diferent points here. Marth is a heavy character in both Nintendo and Fire Emblem worlds, his software being re-released just shows that the character has marketing value and makes him more popular, because Fire Emblem Monshou no Nazo is a classic like most VC games. I don't know why Nintendo would want to promote an obscure third party character before one of his most popular and cooler first party ones.

And I fail to see how starring in a Japanese-only website helps.

A website held by Intelligent Systems doesn't help? What do you want, a signed document by Miyamoto? You are talking like Marth never was in Melee, but in reality is a worlwide favourite, in looks and style.

That's a very bold statement. Maybe the most popular character the US had never seen before, but there's no way to judge which character in Melee is the most popular.

Marth was in the spotlight when he was revealed, many Smash fans enraged when they heard that Nintendo Japan planned to dump the character with other ones for the USA, but then NOA let him stay. Guess that? Because that success, people got interest for this franchise and Nintendo released Fire Emblem games here. Right now we are expecting remakes or ports of these past classics.

The Fire Emblem series has a long and illustrious history in Japan. Highlights:

Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu To Hikari No Tsurugi was an instant hit when it appeared on the Famicom (Japanese name for the NES) in 1990. Avid gamers took on the role of the Altean Prince Marth, whose objective was to destroy the Dark Dragon Medeus. Much later, Marth appeared in Super Smash Bros. Melee for the Nintendo GameCube, along with Roy, another Fire Emblem hero.

1991 saw the release of Fire Emblem Gaiden. This game set the pattern of releasing two games with linked stories. You control two armies, one led by a man named Alm and the other by a woman named Celica.

The first Super Famicom Fire Emblem game ("Super Famicom" is the Japanese name for the Super NES) was 1994's Fire Emblem: Monshou No Nazo.

In 1996, Intelligent Systems released Seisen No Keifu. The most successful game in the series, Seisen No Keifu featured the Prince Sigurd and, later, his son, Serlis.

The Super Famicom's enduring popularity with epic fans led Intelligent Systems to bring out Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 in 2000. The story intertwined with that of Seisen No Keifu, in that it featured some of Serlis's troops.

The first Fire Emblem game for the Game Boy Advance was 2002's Fire Emblem: Fuuin No Tsurugi. This game features Roy, who also appeared in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Fire Emblem: Rekka No Ken followed a year later. The action in this prequel to Fuuin No Tsurugi centers on Roy's father, Eliwood. The first Fire Emblem game released in the United States is a direct port of Rekka No Ken, which loosely translates as "Blazing Sword."

Guess were I got this text? From www.fire-emblem.com, NOA Fire Emblem minisite. Nintendo itself is not neglecting the Japan characters for us, as we could see a lot of unreleased games among Melee trophies.

Plus, if he was so succesful, why haven't we seen mass recognition of FE 1 and 3?

What kind of recognition do you want? Explain yourself.

Your are forgetting an important last thing.

Smash Bros. is about Nintendo history. History can't be "regionalized" or separated into Japan and overseas: Is history as a whole. Marth is one of the key characters to Intelligent Systems, Nintendo and the Simulation RPG history. That's a fact.

And, about "Sakurai will remove all traces of Japanese only characters, that includes Marth":

#171-180: Now that Smash is world-renowned, they don't want to include characters only popular in Japan. However, due to the success of the Fire Emblem characters, they still may.

Thanks to SamuraiPanda for the translation of that entry of the Brawl poll.

At the end, the poll was made in Japan only. What was the point then if you know that a Japanese poll will have Japanese characters? Many of these entries were begging for Marth to stay, because they loved the games, or liked the character... many reasons.

Because Earthbound wasn't released in Europe, Ness shouldn't appear in this game, because I don't know about him. That's your thinking in a nutshell.

 

[Kazuya]

Chief Mendez you are putting across some good points. But comparing the FF games to FE, I like that, I can see where you are coming from. But, lets put this in popularities prospective, most FF players whihc have play'd 7 till 12, would say Cloud or Squall, it's just a fact, FF7's sold the most copies any FFgame ever has, it was so popular that they released a movie. I believe that gives the right for Cloud to be called Mr. Freaking Final Fantasty.

Back to Marth now.

I havn't played ANY FE games, so I'm not gonna talk about how good FE is or how important it is for Marth to be in it.

So I am going to be slightly biast in my judgement. Marth's probably one of the most strategic, fast and powerful fighters in Melee, his speed and power made him a formiddable opponent. So strong, that we had a world number 1 and world number 2 playing as him.

Okay you could say, he was over powered, but in the PAL version, I think he was balanced out well, where area's Fox wasn't. I personally would LOVE to see Marth in the next SSB series (Brawl) but I don't know if that's going to happen because there are newer people in the FE series that need representation - however, IF Marth is in it, I think Sakurai will severely tone him down, most likely his speed and power.

If Marth doesn't appear in Brawl, you never know, he may be a downloadable character in the future along with other players. But personally, I think that Marth deserves to be in Brawl seing as how well people reacted to him in Melee.

 

[0rion]

I $wear if the development team decide$ to replace Marth with Ike I'm gonna be pi$$ed OFF! What will I do without my main?! I'll probably Mapquest where $akurai live$ and give em the Pimp Hand! I will $traight up $mack the crap out of em!.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I think it's pretty laughable to think that any country has more influence over what FE characters will be in than Japan.

And I think it's pretty laughable to give Japan what Japan wants, while telling the rest of the world (which also happens to buy tremendously more copies of the Smash Bros. franchise) that seniority rules.

Oh, and don't worry GenG; I haven't skipped you, but my Wii doesn't like responding to posts longer than 1,000 letters long.

 

[Wiseguy]

....sadly this is true, i agree

though marth is cool and very classic (ya know the first three or whatever games)

do you want marth in the game or just dont care if hes in or not as long as Ike is in

Good question.

Since I think everyone here agrees Ike should and will get in, the only question is what other characters deserve to appear along side him. Considering that as few as two FE characters total could make the cut, this question is extremely important.

Frankly, I think having two charcaters so similar represent Fire Emblem sends the wrong message. Fire Emblem is about much more than blue-haired male sword-weilders with capes. Including Marth as well as Ike would be redundant.

There are a ton of more unique charcaters to put in in over Marth. Mikiah or Sothe from Goddess of Dawn would be far more unique. Or how about Hector? And if they get pressed for time and have to include a clone, Ike's arch nemesis the Black Knight would bring a far more unique presense to Brawl.

And why does everyone see replacing Marth with Ike as an insult to Japanese gamers? The Japanese love Marth's games. Western gamers love the first GBA Fire Emblem. But EVERYONE loves Path of Radiance. On Sakurai's Japanese poll Ike got four nominations, making him tied with the likes of Diddy and Ridley for second most requested character.

Ike is the perfect rep because he represents both Japanese and Western gamers. Why do we need Marth when he is only important in one region and not the other?

Edit: I'm glad you're here Mendez. I was tired of being the lone voice in the wilderness.

 

[GreenMamba]

Yes, how dare they give Japan what Japan wants when it comes to what characters are in from a predominantly Japanese only franchise.

You still have yet to put yourself in their shoes. How would you feel if they got rid of a character you grew up with because some whiners from another country haven't played the games?

 

[GenG]

Why do we need Marth when he is only important in one region and not the other?

Because, for example... I like the character? Many people in this region like it since his first appareance? I'm not a battlefag, I even don't main Marth, but I'm a FE fan, and seriously, Marth and Ike styles don't have ANYTHING, absolutely ANYTHING redundant other than both having swords. Marth is agile and nimble, Ike is somewhat bulky. Marth is stylish, Ike is brute and air based.

That's like saying Mewtwo and Ness are redundant because they both have psychic powers.

 

[Wiseguy]

Because, for example... I like the character? Many people in this region like it since his first appareance? I'm not a battlefag, I even don't main Marth, but I'm a FE fan, and seriously, Marth and Ike styles don't have ANYTHING, absolutely ANYTHING redundant other than both having swords. Marth is agile and nimble, Ike is somewhat bulky. Marth is stylish, Ike is brute and air based.

That's like saying Mewtwo and Ness are redundant because they both have psychic powers.

Except that Mewtwo and Ness are from different games, look nothing alike and have unique personalities.

I stand by my conviction that Ike is basically a vastly more awesome version of Marth. Examples:

1) Ike is slow and powerful, rather than fast and powerful so there will be little need to nerf him.

2) Ike has a sword ranged attack.

4) Ike's game was universally popular.

3) Ike does not look like a total pansy.

Why do we need Marth in the game, when his replacement is so vastly superior?

 

[GenG]

Superior? You are looking Marth from a battle character perspective. I said I don't care about how powerful or awesome are the characters. Ike may be stronger than Marth from a battle perspective, but that doesn't work like that. This isn't Pokémon, Ike isn't Marth's supreme evolution. From the Smash perspective, Ike wouldn't have Marth's range, he would be slower, he would have many launchers to combo in the air easily. Marth is about quick legs with spacing and pressure.

You don't mind about swapping Marth with newer lords because you simply don't like him, as a character, as a Fire Emblem representative. If the response to this statement is "Yes, Marth suck balls", then your whole post have lost all credibility. Smash Bros doesn't pick guys over others because they are " moar pawahful!". That's nonsense.

Marth is one of the worst lords in FE history but that was made him dependable yet holding the key to some battles unlike recent games. There was a different concept of lords back in 1990, which should be tanked and protected, and even so he was revamped and refined for Melee. Under Sakurai's view, there is no better character than other.

 

[Wiseguy]

Superior? You are looking Marth from a battle character perspective. I said I don't care about how powerful or awesome are the characters. Ike may be stronger than Marth from a battle perspective, but that doesn't work like that. This isn't Pokémon, Ike isn't Marth's supreme evolution. From the Smash perspective, Ike wouldn't have Marth's range, he would be slower, he would have many launchers to combo in the air easily. Marth is about quick legs with spacing and pressure.

You don't mind about swapping Marth with newer lords because you simply don't like him, as a character, as a Fire Emblem representative. If the response to this statement is "Yes, Marth suck balls", then your whole post have lost all credibility. Smash Bros doesn't pick guys over others because they are " moar pawahful!". That's nonsense.

Marth is one of the worst lords in FE history but that was made him dependable yet holding the key to some battles unlike recent games.

There are two reason's why Marth shouldn't return:

1) He is a poor representative of the series to the majority of Fire Embel fans.

2) The majority of his fans (who will likely never play a Fire Emblem game) only like him because of stupidly powerful moveset. Since if Marth does return he will be nerfed (like kirby and Ness were in the transition from SSB 64 to Melee) he will basically be a less powerful, more lame looking version of Marth.

 

[GenG]

There are two reason's why Marth shouldn't return:

1) He is a poor representative of the series to the majority of Fire Embel fans.

2) The majority of his fans (who will likely never play a Fire Emblem game) only like him because of stupidly powerful moveset. Since if Marth does return he will be nerfed (like kirby and Ness were in the transition from SSB 64 to Melee) he will basically be a less powerful, more lame looking version of Marth.

1) There a "many" Fire Emblem fans in Japan. For them he may not be "poor", and they hold a huge part of the cake. Then, there are FE fans and Smashers over there who like the character from the looks/mood AND/OR battle perspective. I say don't mess with them.

2) We don't know if Marth is going to be nerfed to the extent of Kirby, that's an overstatement. I won't touch Marth, but buff the mid and low tier to something playable. Don't fix what isn't broken (yet he was fixed in the PAL version and is the latest version of the character).

 

[Wiseguy]

1) There a "many" Fire Emblem fans in Japan. For them he may not be "poor", and they hold a huge part of the cake. Then, there are FE fans and Smashers over there who like the character from the looks/mood AND/OR battle perspective. I say don't mess with them.

And why does everyone see replacing Marth with Ike as an insult to Japanese gamers? The Japanese love Marth's games. Western gamers love the first GBA Fire Emblem. But EVERYONE loves Path of Radiance. On Sakurai's Japanese poll Ike got four nominations, making him tied with the likes of Diddy and Ridley for second most requested character.

Ike is the perfect rep because he represents both Japanese and Western gamers. Why do we need Marth when he is only important in one region and not the other?

.................

 

[GenG]

Your problem is that you are assuming that Ike automatically reps Marth fans by default.
Plot, characters, style, classic factor (being the first one and such) are so different that you can't assume all Marth fans are going to like Ike and play as Ike, even if they like Fire Emblem there's still people that may have not liked Path of Radiance, so they don't feel identificated with him.

Fire Emblem 1 was a NES classic. Fire Emblem 3 was a SNES classic. Both games sold pretty well (better than Path of Radiance sellings worldwide combined) which makes a solid fanbase for Marth. And, as I said before, Nintendo and IS tends to promote Marth as the FE poster boy. Plus Melee boosted this over 9000 points.

Ike sucks? Wow no. They can keep both, and I want Ike in Brawl too. But Ike would never replace Marth as the overall Fire Emblem representative just because the game is good, Ike is bold and the game is popular worldwide. You are just assuming things, like, for example, Lucario repping all the Pokémon franchise because he is cool and new (scrapping Mewtwo, Pikachu and Jigglypuff for example).

You aren't talking in the name of the all FE fans.

 

[Wiseguy]

Your problem is that you are assuming that Ike automatically reps Marth fans by default.
Plot, characters, style, classic factor (being the first one and such) are so different that you can't assume all Marth fans are going to like Ike and play as Ike, even if they like Fire Emblem there's still people that may have not liked Path of Radiance, so they don't feel identificated with him.

Fire Emblem 1 was a NES classic. Fire Emblem 3 was a SNES classic. Both games sold pretty well (better than Path of Radiance sellings worldwide combined) which makes a solid fanbase for Marth. And, as I said before, Nintendo and IS tends to promote Marth as the FE poster boy. Plus Melee boosted this over 9000 points.

Ike sucks? Wow no. They can keep both, and I want Ike in Brawl too. But Ike would never replace Marth as the overall Fire Emblem representative just because the game is good, Ike is bold and the game is popular worldwide. You are just assuming things, like, for example, Lucario repping all the Pokémon franchise because he is cool and new (scrapping Mewtwo, Pikachu and Jigglypuff for example).

You aren't talking in the name of the all FE fans.

If Marth was the original FE lord for fans worldwide, I would agree. But as far as the majority of FE fans are concerned, the first game in the series was Fire Emblem for the GBA.

Since most people who buy FE games aren't from Japan, having a Japanese only character as its rep is unfair. Having Ike as the new FE rep is a good compromise.

 

[GenG]

If Marth was the original FE lord for fans worldwide, I would agree. But as far as the majority of FE fans are concerned, the first game in the series was Fire Emblem for the GBA.

Since most people who buy FE games aren't from Japan, having a Japanese only character as its rep is unfair. Having Ike as the new FE rep is a good compromise.

That's what I call selfishness and ignorance from those fans. Majority? They are just a part of a more huge fanbase who started to play Fire Emblem games in 1990. Those fans which you don't seem to care about, which requested Marth in Melee back in 2001 and thanks to them we have our FE games translated. US FE players should accept that they aren't the center of the world and look forward to the games they missed. Smash is an opportunity to look back to what they couldn't get, and fortunately Marth reappareance would boost the interest for a remake in DS for example.

Unfair? What's unfair about having both Marth and Ike? I really don't understand your reasoning, is a win-win situation here.

As I said to Chief Mendez, Smash covers Nintendo's history from Japan and US (see for example Super Mario Bros. 2 USA stage in Melee, Subcon), and Marth an important part of that undeniable history. Japanese players have their character, US players have the character they liked in Melee, and then is Ike as a newer representative.

I feel right that now we are running in circles. I think I've stated enough reasons about why Marth should (and is going to) stay.

EDIT: I've read your wishlist in another thread and... Black Knight? What the-

 

[GreenMarth]

Marth is not "the face of Fire Emblem." Sorry, but he's just not. As has been said before, there's very little continuity in the series. Saying that is like saying Cloud is "Mr. Final Fantasy."

I thought he was "Mr. Final Fantasy". Then again, i have not played many FF games. BUt this goes to show you that people who do not now the series as well DO think of Marth as the fac e of Fire Emblem.

I THINK i have a valid point, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I thought he was "Mr. Final Fantasy". Then again, i have not played many FF games. BUt this goes to show you that people who do not now the series as well DO think of Marth as the fac e of Fire Emblem.

I THINK i have a valid point, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, you're wrong.

If you've only played a few FEs, chances are you don't think of Marth as "the" Lord. If you do, you've probably never played a FE game, just Melee.

Note: I know it's off-topic a bit, but there's an interview up on IGN with GoD's creators, and apparently they think a DS FE is possible, but they'd prefer to stick to consoles.

Wiseguy: I do my very best.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I feel right that now we are running in circles.

Probably.

So what have we learned? Me and Wiseguy (apologies if I'm speaking out of turn) think that the similarities between Ike and Marth, as well as Marth's lack of recognition in the Fire Emblem universe everywhere but Japan, are too damaging to his chances for him to make the cut.

I won't presume to summarize your side of the argument, so...would you care to?

(Note that I'm assuming Ike will be in, Roy will be cut, and there will be at most 2 open spaces for other FE fighters.)

EDIT - Gasp! A double post! My bad.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Marth is not "the face of Fire Emblem." Sorry, but he's just not. As has been said before, there's very little continuity in the series. Saying that is like saying Cloud is "Mr. Final Fantasy."

If saying Marth is the face of FE is the same as saying Cloud is the face of FF, then Marth is undeniably the face of FE.