Marth/Roy, Should They Make The Cut?

[Cisne]

I dont think that ike "replaces" marth or black knight "replaces" roy , they are completly different.

I dont want an identical rooster , i want cool chars like marth to stay and joke chars like pichu to leave.

 

[Bane]

Marth and Roy should be replaced by Ike and the Black Knight. Anyone who misses Marth and Roy can anyways play Melee.

Why don't You replace Cpt. Falcon with Pico, Samus with Trace, Mario with Fawful and Link with Midna while you're at it. SSB is as much about celebrating the pillars of franchises as it is a venue for the latest significant Nintendo characters. Fire Emblem has a diverse and vast cast with a fervent following and only a few potential roster spots. Despite thae latest console games few well aquainted with the franchise would argue that it's pillar is anyone but Marth. Ike, Black Knight, Sothe, and whoever else will have to fight it out for the other slot(s) because Marth deserves to be in Brawl more then any newcomer and has earned his place amoung the returning characters.
Note: Comparing Ike to Marth, because they both use swords, is like comparing a hummer to a honda, because they're both have engines.

 

[Kirye]

Let's make this simple.

Marth is to Fire Emblem as Link is to Zelda. Marth is the most important character to the Fire Emblem franchise, no matter how you wanna see it.

Ike and Marth do look similar, but they'll obviously be different move-wise, I doubt there'll be clones. Blue hair? Who cares, Ike has a more rough hairstyle, sort of like Clouds, while Marth has his hair down and has a formal look to him. Picture it this way, it'd be Roy with blue hair, a buffer body, and larger armor. We can always give Roy the boot anyway, his game passed, he has no real importance to Fire Emblem as Marth does.

Besides, replacing Marth for Ike would be like replacing Ness for Lucas. >.>

 

[ClarkJables]

i hope marth returns to brawl, because he rocked in melee. roy was o.k., i liked his fire smashes and i know some people who can't loose when they play him. some characters do have to be replaced though, and seeing as marth has more of a back round and a fanbase it looks like he has a better chance. i really would like to see an axe, magic, or a spear user instead of another sword user considering we have most of the different types of sword already. we have Gannondorf who will probably use his 2hander in brawl, link and marth, pit who duel wields, and if goroh makes it in we will have a samurai which covers almost every kind of swordsman, or at least all the ones that are necessary without being overexcesive.

 

[freeman123]

snipertango
And freeman he did a a search for FE 6 not Roy in Melee. ****ING READ!!!!!.

I did read. He searched for Fire Emblem, not FE6. And if you search for Fire Emblem, it could pull up things like "Roy was a bad choice for a Fire Emblem character in SSBM."

 

[Wiseguy]

Why don't You replace Cpt. Falcon with Pico, Samus with Trace, Mario with Fawful and Link with Midna while you're at it. SSB is as much about celebrating the pillars of franchises as it is a venue for the latest significant Nintendo characters. Fire Emblem has a diverse and vast cast with a fervent following and only a few potential roster spots. Despite thae latest console games few well aquainted with the franchise would argue that it's pillar is anyone but Marth. Ike, Black Knight, Sothe, and whoever else will have to fight it out for the other slot(s) because Marth deserves to be in Brawl more then any newcomer and has earned his place amoung the returning characters.
Note: Comparing Ike to Marth, because they both use swords, is like comparing a hummer to a honda, because they're both have engines.

Bane, my old friend, you couldn't be more wrong. Characters like Mario, Link, Cpt. Falcon and Samus are the "pillars" of their repective game franchises becuase they are always a main character in every game. Fire Emblem is unique in that most of the games are self contained, with an entirely different set of characters. It's silly to call Marth the "pillar" of his franchise when he hasn't appeared in Fire Emblem game in over a decade.

Fire Emblem doesn't have the massive fanbase that Pokemon or Zelda has so its unlikely that more than two representatives in Brawl. It makes more sense to have characters from the new Fire Emblems that have released internationally than to have the series represented by older, Japanese exclusive characters.

And yes, Ike's moveset would most likely be similar enough to Marth's that it makes no sense to have them both in the same game. I think we need more variety in our Fire Emblem reps.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

Marth will stay, Roy will go.

Marth is the first FE hero, and he one of the most popular characters in the series!

Roy, well, he's a clone (no offense) and he was basically added in to promote Fūin no Tsurugi (Sword of Seals).

That's how I see it.

 

[L5LM_Gtlink]

Marth will of course return he is Mr Fire Emblem, the first lord, lord of two games and pretty **** popular. Not to mention he is the original one.

Roy however is unpopular (as is his game) and sure he could be made better but there are way too many more deserving characters such as Ike, Sigurd and Micaiah just to name a few.

I approve this message. and this sig

 

[shadenexus18]

Roy might get the boot cause Pit looks oh so similar to Roy. Plus, there's just not a high demand on Roy's return if you know where I'm getting at. Life will go on whether he returns or not.

Marth's definately comin back though.

 

[snipertango]

Like stated above you cant call marth Mr Fire Emblem cause every FE game is different just like you cant call and FF series character the Mr of the series cause they are all different too. Pit isnt really a sword user its more so a Bow. And talking about which characters are popular should make it doesnt hold cause Pit is there and mostly no one knew who the **** Pit was unless you played Kid Icarus on the NES

 

[shadenexus18]

^^True, but I'm just sayin that Roy and Pit's facial features look kind of similar.....not the way they would do battle.

 

[Destruction_King]

Like stated above you cant call marth Mr Fire Emblem cause every FE game is different just like you cant call and FF series character the Mr of the series cause they are all different too. Pit isnt really a sword user its more so a Bow. And talking about which characters are popular should make it doesnt hold cause Pit is there and mostly no one knew who the **** Pit was unless you played Kid Icarus on the NES

Technically, the above sentance is not true. Not every Fire Emblem game is different, as Marth starred in two game. His second appearence included an updated version of his first game (which took up half the entire game) so not every FE game is different.

And by your logic, Donkey Kong could be taken out of Brawl because he didn't star in all of the Donkey Kong Country games. He only was playable in the first one.

 

[shadenexus18]

Donkey Kong.....replaced? Don't say such things like that D.King. Besides, Donkey Kong and you have the same initials according to your username. Not to mention the fact that Kong was apart of SSB's original 8 excluding the secret characters.

lol.....DK and DK.

 

[Zarasai]

im good with marth and reasonable with roy, but i think they should be discarded in favor of more recent FE chars. like Ike for instance. also add Soren, since he doesnt use a sword. heh

 

[Wiseguy]

Technically, the above sentance is not true. Not every Fire Emblem game is different, as Marth starred in two game. His second appearence included an updated version of his first game (which took up half the entire game) so not every FE game is different.

And by your logic, Donkey Kong could be taken out of Brawl because he didn't star in all of the Donkey Kong Country games. He only was playable in the first one.

This is a poor comparison. Donkey Kong has starred in dozens of games, including the majority of the Donkey Country games and recent releases like Jungle Beat for the Gamecube and Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2 for the DS. Marth, on the other hand, starred in two of the earliest Fire Emblem games - neither of which have seen the light of day outside of Japan. Since then, he has not appeared in any Fire Emblem games at all.

Ike, on the other hand, is the main character in Path of Radiance and appears in Goddess of Dawn so he is just as important to the Fire Emblem series as Marth. He also has the advantage of appearing in a Fire Emblem game outside of Japan and of being the popular among Fire Emblem fans around the world. Anyway you look at it, he makes a better representative of the Fire Emblem series than Marth.

 

[notftomearth7]

Being as this topic as been posted a lot....

1. use search
2. Well its one or the other. most likely marth, but he needs a more manly belt. But only one is coming back, if any at all. and since roy is a clone..... well, yeah.

I wouldn't talk cuz this thread hasn't been closed yet! On topic, I would like to see Roy moreso than Marth simply because Ike could easily replace Marth. Roy could only make it in if Nintendo decides that Roy is important because it leaves us with a happy rememberance of all the FE game he was in (which it does) so I vote yes

 

[Shadow Calibur]

Marth stays due to the high amount of importance he holds in the FE franchise- Marth's the first FE lord AND the first lord to be in two games.

Roy also has importance, being the first portable Lord. HOWEVER, that can be easily overshadowed by the fact that he was put in Melee mainly for advertisement. That and it wasn't Sakurai's decision to stick Roy in Melee. His spot may very well be open to other FE characters (Lyndis, Sigurd, and Ike are some of the more likely candidates).

To those who say Ike would be too similar to Marth, that would be near impossible. In the games he stars in, Ike's swordfighting style is self-taught and rougher than Marth's.

 

[Wiseguy]

Marth stays due to the high amount of importance he holds in the FE franchise- Marth's the first FE lord AND the first lord to be in two games.

I might agree with that except that, as far as non-Japanese gamers are concerned, the first game in the series was Fire Emblem for the Gameboy Advance. Outside the land of the rising sun, Marth is utterly irrelivant to the series. Maybe I'd have a different opinion if Marth's games were released on the virtual console like they are in (wait for it...) Japan, but Nintendo has expressed no intnerest in doing so.

Therefore, Marth is not the most important Lord. Ike (who will soon have stared in two globally released Fire Emblem games) is.

 

[Octillus]

Don't forget a black american guy once thanked Sakurai for making Roy just for him.

The power of praise goes far.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

That's because he's in SSBM, idiot. If a lot of people are saying "I hope they get someone better then Roy from Fire Emblem to be in Brawl" his name would come up a lot. That doesn't make him popular.

I guess I should have added that the search results had a much stronger bearing on the Fire Emblem series with little to nothing to do with Smash Bros. - it's Roy in context to Fire Emblem: Fūin no Tsurugi along with other characters from that game. I was simply providing that information to refute xianfeng's claim that this particular installment to the series wasn't popular - of course not to the extent of FE3 or FE4, but fares fairly well in the series overall. Next time you might want to consider what I'm getting across, otherwise it's you that walks away looking like an asshat (which you, in fact did, in this case...).

EDIT: Nevermind, it seems snipertango pretty much cleared that up, but the search I did was actually for the Fire Emblem series as a whole in Japanese, where the sixth installment appears quite prevalently (surprisingly though, not very much appears for FE3 or FE4 - I have no clue why that's the case...)

 

[xianfeng]

1) Yes, Ike and Marth swing their swords differently, but they would be similar in that they are both blue-haired, sword weilding Fire Emblem lords. Fire Emblem games have a huge variey of characters to draw upon (axe weilders like Hector, mages like Micaiah, thieves like Sothe, Generals like the Black Knight) so there is no excuse for having two characters so similar.

You haven't seen his GoD apperance so until you od your opinion is null and void.

2) He may be the most important in Japan, but he has yet to appear in a single North American released game.

SSBM wasn't released in North America?

4) Wrong> http://smashboards.com/showthread.ph...highlight=poll

That's Sakurai's poll not an FE poll

Yes, you are right about Ike's appearance in the upcoming Fire Emblem but until he starts using an axe or a spear he will still be too similar to Marth in my opinion.

Ike does use an axe but also thank you for ignoring the fact he has a RANGED sword.

C'mon people, let's send that pansy Marth into retirement and let Ike take on his rightful role as the new Fire Emblem rep!

Learn something about FE.

BOTH SWORDS DIP**** so they will play similar theres only 1 way to swing a sword. You cant be like oh i have a rapier sword now i cant swing it this way cause my style limits me to doing this. ******* you can only swing a sword one way AT YOUR ENEMY!!!

YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT SWORDS. YOU ARE A MORON. Bloody idiot, stop posting please.

And yes, Ike's moveset would most likely be similar enough to Marth's that it makes no sense to have them both in the same game.

Yep a ranged sword and strong powerful strikes and an axe is exactly the same as quick weaker jabs. Brilliant logic.

I might agree with that except that, as far as non-Japanese gamers are concerned, the first game in the series was Fire Emblem for the Gameboy Advance. Outside the land of the rising sun, Marth is utterly irrelivant to the series. Maybe I'd have a different opinion if Marth's games were released on the virtual console like they are in (wait for it...) Japan, but Nintendo has expressed no intnerest in doing so.

Sakurai and Nintendo don't give a **** about us, sorry but it's true that's why the poll was ONLY in Japan. If they cared about our opinion at all Sakurai would have made a poll for us too but he doesn't.

Don't forget a black american guy once thanked Sakurai for making Roy just for him.

So? Who cares if a black guy thanked him for putting Roy in.

of course not to the extent of FE3 or FE4

FE3 wasn't that liked for some reason, personally I love it (I also love FE6) but people don't seem to like it

 

[Wiseguy]

You haven't seen his GoD apperance so until you od your opinion is null and void.


SSBM wasn't released in North America?


That's Sakurai's poll not an FE poll


Ike does use an axe but also thank you for ignoring the fact he has a RANGED sword.

Learn something about FE.


Yep a ranged sword and strong powerful strikes and an axe is exactly the same as quick weaker jabs. Brilliant logic.


Sakurai and Nintendo don't give a **** about us, sorry but it's true that's why the poll was ONLY in Japan. If they cared about our opinion at all Sakurai would have made a poll for us too but he doesn't.

1)Actually, I have. Since Goddess of Dawn was released in Japan several gameplay videos and trailers have been posted on Youtube. I won't spoil it for you, but Ike's appearance (while different) still bears enough resemblance to Marth that I can't imagine Sakua putting them in the same game.

2)What I meant was, he hasn't appeared in a single Fire Emblem game.

3) I know. As I stated, in Sakura's poll Ike is ranked as the top Fire Emblem character and one of the most popular characters period. I think that bodes well for Ike being in Brawl.

4) You're correct that the sword Ike weilds near the end of PoR has a ranged attack, but I don't recall him ever welding a axe. I believe you are mistaking him for his father Greil who can weild both swords and axes.

5)Based on your poor knowlege of Ike's weaponry, I think you are the one who should learn more about Fire Embelm.

6)This fits in with what I've said all along: Ike is like Marth, only better. There is no point in having Marth in Brawl if Ike is going to be there.

7) No, they don't care about us, they care about our money. And since the recent Fire Emblems have sold more in North America than in Japan, I'd say they care about our opinion just as much, if not more, than Japanese gamers. Anyway, since we've established that the Japanese voted strongly in favor of Ike in Sakura's poll, I fail to see any reason why Ike should not replace Marth.

Check and mate.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

No one is arguing that Ike isn't getting in brawl. Honestly, he's one of the most likely newcomers in general due to Sakurai's interest in him (note that the poll reflects Sakurai's personal opinion on the characters, and may not necessarily reflect japans views on the whole). However, the argument is that Ike will get in at the expense of Marth.

Honestly though, outside of having blue hair and both being swordsman, the two are incredibly different and can easily play different (Marth focusing on his lithe and disciplined style while Ike uses rougher, powerful attacks and throwing some ranged attacks in there). Also, it sort of odd how you argue that Marth should be taken out yet the Black Knight should be added, who offers nothing that Ike doesn't and really would be a clone (and therefore according to your theory that there will only be 2 FE spots would be an entire waste).

Also, you really and giving Marth enough credit. He was the first FE lord, so without Marth there wouldn't be FE in the first place. Honestly, you can't argue that any FE character is more important than Marth, even if Ike's game is released internationally. Let's face it, more people internationally will probably recognize Marth seeing as the SSB fanbase is much larger than the FE one, and even if nether of his games were released outside of Japan, everyone still associates him with FE regardless. Not to mention Marth was the most requested FE character for melee, and FE is far more popular in Japan than it is anywhere else, which is why Sakurai will listen to the japanese fanbase rather than the US.

As for Ike's axe, I heard that he can use one in GoD, but seeing as ragnell is so amazing, I haven't seen him use one. Regardless, it's a moot point seeing as so far all characters from FE get their best weapon, and at most I can see Ike throwing a handaxe. Even so, there's still enough to go on to make them play differently.

 

[Wiseguy]

No one is arguing that Ike isn't getting in brawl. Honestly, he's one of the most likely newcomers in general due to Sakurai's interest in him (note that the poll reflects Sakurai's personal opinion on the characters, and may not necessarily reflect japans views on the whole). However, the argument is that Ike will get in at the expense of Marth.

Honestly though, outside of having blue hair and both being swordsman, the two are incredibly different and can easily play different (Marth focusing on his lithe and disciplined style while Ike uses rougher, powerful attacks and throwing some ranged attacks in there). Also, it sort of odd how you argue that Marth should be taken out yet the Black Knight should be added, who offers nothing that Ike doesn't and really would be a clone (and therefore according to your theory that there will only be 2 FE spots would be an entire waste).

Also, you really and giving Marth enough credit. He was the first FE lord, so without Marth there wouldn't be FE in the first place. Honestly, you can't argue that any FE character is more important than Marth, even if Ike's game is released internationally. Let's face it, more people internationally will probably recognize Marth seeing as the SSB fanbase is much larger than the FE one, and even if nether of his games were released outside of Japan, everyone still associates him with FE regardless. Not to mention Marth was the most requested FE character for melee, and FE is far more popular in Japan than it is anywhere else, which is why Sakurai will listen to the japanese fanbase rather than the US.

As for Ike's axe, I heard that he can use one in GoD, but seeing as ragnell is so amazing, I haven't seen him use one. Regardless, it's a moot point seeing as so far all characters from FE get their best weapon, and at most I can see Ike throwing a handaxe. Even so, there's still enough to go on to make them play differently.

We seem to agree on one thing: Ike should be put in Brawl. The question is whether Marth deserves to return. Personally, I think having the series represented by two blue haired, sword weilding lords would be boring.

I support the Black Knight in Brawl becasue as he would be a far more interesing fighter. Yes, he would be a clone of Ike but his ability to teloport combined with extremely high defense and slow, powerful attacks would make him a sword fighter unlike any other.

Anyway, Marth has had his moment of glory by being included in Melee. Its time for him to step aside and let newer, more interesting characters appear in Brawl.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I don't see how a clone that can teleport is interesting. That just makes him a clone with a move stolen from Mewtwo. And I don't see Ike being that fast anyway and already very powerful, so BK would really just be an extreme version of Ike, whereas most clones tend to offer the opposite. I'd rather have two blue haired swordsman that played differently than two characters that looked different but were otherwise exactly the same. Especially seeing as blue is pretty much associated with powerful lords in FE. Plus Marth strikes me as being far more interesting than BK, so interesting characters are all a matter of opinion, and in that case only Sakurai's matter.

Also, I don't see how replacing one swordsman and his clone with another swordsman and is clone achieves anything. If anything it'd be better to replace the clone (I'm fond of Roy, but his chances of returning aren't that high) with the other swordsman and have 2 original playstyles rather than just one.

And why has Marth had his moment of glory? He was one of the most popular characters in Smash and without him and Roy we would never have gotten the chance to play an FE. IMO, Marth has earned his right to stay for at least another game.

 

[Wiseguy]

I don't see how a clone that can teleport is interesting. That just makes him a clone with a move stolen from Mewtwo. And I don't see Ike being that fast anyway and already very powerful, so BK would really just be an extreme version of Ike, whereas most clones tend to offer the opposite. I'd rather have two blue haired swordsman that played differently than two characters that looked different but were otherwise exactly the same. Especially seeing as blue is pretty much associated with powerful lords in FE. Plus Marth strikes me as being far more interesting than BK, so interesting characters are all a matter of opinion, and in that case only Sakurai's matter.

Also, I don't see how replacing one swordsman and his clone with another swordsman and is clone achieves anything. If anything it'd be better to replace the clone (I'm fond of Roy, but his chances of returning aren't that high) with the other swordsman and have 2 original playstyles rather than just one.

And why has Marth had his moment of glory? He was one of the most popular characters in Smash and without him and Roy we would never have gotten the chance to play an FE. IMO, Marth has earned his right to stay for at least another game.

Fire Emblem (as incredible as it is) is not as popular as most Nintendo franchises, so I doubt we will see more than two Fire Emblem charcaters in Brawl. Just as the old versions of Fox and Link were replaced by Starfox Command Fox and Twilight Princess Link I think that Brawl should pay tribute to the latest Fire Emblem game (Path of Radiance) by featuring Ike and his nemesis the Black Knight.

Also, I agree that Sakuai's opinion is the only one that matters. That's why I chose two charcaters who appeared on his poll.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

We're unsure how many characters Sakurai is planning for FE series (or altogether for that matter), but I assume that most franchises will get 1 more slot. Plus, FE is still quite popular in Japan and has only become more popular now that it's international, so 3 characters isn't that out of the question. Your point about Fox and Link though is invalid, as FE isn't the same. Fox and Link always appear because of how their games work, so it's only natural they use their latest incarnations. However, that's not the same as replacing Marth with Ike, as your not giving an old character a new look, you're replacing an old character with a completely new one. And I don't see any concrete evidence that Sakurai will replace all old generation characters with new generation. Plus, even if Fox and Link represent their most recent games, they'll more than likely play the same way, which won't be the case with Marth and Ike.

As for choosing characters from Sakurai's poll, both Soren and Mia appeared there as well, who are both more interesting than BK (not sure if anyone else from PoR appeared). Why don't we opt for one of them instead. Also, the list doesn't mention all the posts that asked for characters returning, so it might turn out that Sakurai wants Marth to return as much as he wants Ike to get in. And don't assume that any character that appears on the poll has a better chance than those who don't. Both Link's uncle and Blue virus appeared, but you'd be crazy to think they'd have a decent shot. And Sakurai is only human and can change his mind. He may have liked the idea of BK at the time, but could decide against it in the end, especially with GoD offering more interesting characters.

 

[Wiseguy]

We're unsure how many characters Sakurai is planning for FE series (or altogether for that matter), but I assume that most franchises will get 1 more slot. Plus, FE is still quite popular in Japan and has only become more popular now that it's international, so 3 characters isn't that out of the question. Your point about Fox and Link though is invalid, as FE isn't the same. Fox and Link always appear because of how their games work, so it's only natural they use their latest incarnations. However, that's not the same as replacing Marth with Ike, as your not giving an old character a new look, you're replacing an old character with a completely new one. And I don't see any concrete evidence that Sakurai will replace all old generation characters with new generation. Plus, even if Fox and Link represent their most recent games, they'll more than likely play the same way, which won't be the case with Marth and Ike.

As for choosing characters from Sakurai's poll, both Soren and Mia appeared there as well, who are both more interesting than BK (not sure if anyone else from PoR appeared). Why don't we opt for one of them instead. Also, the list doesn't mention all the posts that asked for characters returning, so it might turn out that Sakurai wants Marth to return as much as he wants Ike to get in. And don't assume that any character that appears on the poll has a better chance than those who don't. Both Link's uncle and Blue virus appeared, but you'd be crazy to think they'd have a decent shot. And Sakurai is only human and can change his mind. He may have liked the idea of BK at the time, but could decide against it in the end, especially with GoD offering more interesting characters.

True, we don't know yet whether Sakurai is in favor of replacing old generation characters. Personally, I think it makes more sense for each Super Smash Bros. game to be updated to reflect the nwer incarnations of each Nintnendo series. Time will tell whether I am right or not.

I am also aware that apearing on the poll does not necessarily mean that the Black Knight is being considered as a playable character, but since its all we have to go on it is a point in his favor. At the very least, the Black Knight is on Sakurai's radar.

In addition, Black Knight is also far more important to the story of Path of Radiance than either Soren or Mia and is returning in GoD. Although Soren might arguably have a more interesting moveset, the Black Knight would be easier to incorporate in Brawl as Ike's clone.

Also (objectively and scientifically speaking) the Black Knight rocks all kinds of awesome.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

IMO, it'd make more sense to have a character from the first FE game and one from the most recent one if we are stuck with two characters. That way the series is more diversely represented. But FE's style is unique due all the different worlds whereas the other series all revolve around one, so it's a fairly hard series to predict, especially seeing as we can't pull any patterns due to only appearing in one installment so far. So you're right, we'll have to wait and see.

Really, characters that appear once on the poll seem like honourary mentions to me, thouh some could be taken further. I personally feel the ones with 3+ mentions are the ones largely being considered, and the others should be taken with a grain of salt (they could get in, but aren't on Sakurai's priority list)

True, BK is more significant, but we don't actually know how much significance is worth when adding characters. If anything if significance is the main reason any character is added then BK has to take a backseat to all the lords and major villains first. And personally when it comes to either unique fighting styles or significance then uniqueness wins, and I think Sakurai thinks the same way. Just because it'd be easier to add BK as a clone doesn't mean Sakurai will do it. If anything, Sakurai seems to prefer adding origional and unique characters and only added clones as he was pushed for time (which he has admitted won't be an issue this time). Plus, Mia and Soren also appear in GoD (they even appear in a cinematic scene, which seems to give them an edge over other units from the game), so they aren't completely random characters (and I believe they have somewhat of a fanbase, especially Soren).

And as far as I'm concerned, the Black Knight is nothing more than a walking cliche, and seems to be more of a plot device than an actual character. Though this is getting in the personal reasons why he shouldn't get in rather than practical ones.

However, I think we're trailing off topic here, so I'll come back to the matter at hand.

Marth has a very good chance of staying, simply because he is the founder of FE and despite his game being Japanese only is recognized worldwide and still associated with the FE series. Just because Ike is almost guaranteed a spot doesn't mean it's at the expense of Marth, as I'm sure Sakurai can easily make their styles diverse enough for both to be enjoyable.

 

[Wiseguy]

IMO, it'd make more sense to have a character from the first FE game and one from the most recent one if we are stuck with two characters. That way the series is more diversely represented. But FE's style is unique due all the different worlds whereas the other series all revolve around one, so it's a fairly hard series to predict, especially seeing as we can't pull any patterns due to only appearing in one installment so far. So you're right, we'll have to wait and see.

Really, characters that appear once on the poll seem like honourary mentions to me, thouh some could be taken further. I personally feel the ones with 3+ mentions are the ones largely being considered, and the others should be taken with a grain of salt (they could get in, but aren't on Sakurai's priority list)

True, BK is more significant, but we don't actually know how much significance is worth when adding characters. If anything if significance is the main reason any character is added then BK has to take a backseat to all the lords and major villains first. And personally when it comes to either unique fighting styles or significance then uniqueness wins, and I think Sakurai thinks the same way. Just because it'd be easier to add BK as a clone doesn't mean Sakurai will do it. If anything, Sakurai seems to prefer adding origional and unique characters and only added clones as he was pushed for time (which he has admitted won't be an issue this time). Plus, Mia and Soren also appear in GoD (they even appear in a cinematic scene, which seems to give them an edge over other units from the game), so they aren't completely random characters (and I believe they have somewhat of a fanbase, especially Soren).

And as far as I'm concerned, the Black Knight is nothing more than a walking cliche, and seems to be more of a plot device than an actual character. Though this is getting in the personal reasons why he shouldn't get in rather than practical ones.

However, I think we're trailing off topic here, so I'll come back to the matter at hand.

Marth has a very good chance of staying, simply because he is the founder of FE and despite his game being Japanese only is recognized worldwide and still associated with the FE series. Just because Ike is almost guaranteed a spot doesn't mean it's at the expense of Marth, as I'm sure Sakurai can easily make their styles diverse enough for both to be enjoyable.

Well LukeFonFabre, it appears we're going to have to agree to disagree. I understand why you would think that the Black Knight is a cliche, but I strongly diagree. His role as main villian in PoR was enough to make him a fan favorite to some (see: The Black knight thread).

Back to Marth, I still don't see the point of his returning when there are newer, more unique characters waiting to take his place. But regardless, we won't really know one way or another until the game's character roster is revealed.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Glad we agree on something XD. And so ensues the waiting game.

Though to be honest, it all depends on who is the first FE character revealed. If Ike is the first one, then I won't be expecting Marth to return sadly.

 

[xianfeng]

1)Actually, I have. Since Goddess of Dawn was released in Japan several gameplay videos and trailers have been posted on Youtube. I won't spoil it for you, but Ike's appearance (while different) still bears enough resemblance to Marth that I can't imagine Sakua putting them in the same game.

I've kept up to date with all the FE10 info I can tell you every playable character and their class. Also Ike looks NOTHING like Marth, he now looks angry has a slevless shirt and HUGE muscles.

2)What I meant was, he hasn't appeared in a single Fire Emblem game.

Doesn't change the fact that he is more important than Ike in the series.

4) You're correct that the sword Ike weilds near the end of PoR has a ranged attack, but I don't recall him ever welding a axe. I believe you are mistaking him for his father Greil who can weild both swords and axes.

No he uses Axes in GoD.

5)Based on your poor knowlege of Ike's weaponry, I think you are the one who should learn more about Fire Embelm.

GODDESS OF DAWN VANGAURD CLASS

7) No, they don't care about us, they care about our money. And since the recent Fire Emblems have sold more in North America than in Japan, I'd say they care about our opinion just as much, if not more, than Japanese gamers. Anyway, since we've established that the Japanese voted strongly in favor of Ike in Sakura's poll, I fail to see any reason why Ike should not replace Marth.

Why should they replace Marth with Ike? Sakurai cares more about their opinion and they like Marth more so it's pretty obvious he will stay.

Yes, he would be a clone of Ike

If the developers are uncreative morons.

I think that Brawl should pay tribute to the latest Fire Emblem game (Path of Radiance) by featuring Ike and his nemesis the Black Knight.

That is stupid because
A) Goddess of Dawn is the most recent
B) A villain like the Black Knight shouldn't get in over the lords who are all more important than him.
C) Just representing 2 games is stupid when there are 10 games in the series.

In addition, Black Knight is also far more important to the story of Path of Radiance than either Soren or Mia and is returning in GoD. Although Soren might arguably have a more interesting moveset, the Black Knight would be easier to incorporate in Brawl as Ike's clone.

Soren and Mia appear in GoD too, everyone from FE9 does.

(and I believe they have somewhat of a fanbase, especially Soren).

Remove the Yaoi fans and half his fanbase is gone.

Black Knight is playable in GoD he still shouldn't be playable in Brawl, Lords first then villains.

 

[Wiseguy]

Wow. I thought we had exhausted this topic. Thank goodness for xianfeng.

First of all, I stand corrected. I've been trying to stay away from GoD spoilers lately, but I'll take your word for it that Ike will be able to weild axes. However, I think a ragnell weilding Ike would be make for a more interesting moveset.

Secondly, as I've previously stated, I don't accept that Marth is as important or more important to the Fire Emblem series than Ike. True, they both star in two Fire Emblem games, but Marth's games were released over a decade ago and were never released outside the U.S.

I would even argue that the Black Knight is more important than Marth because, as you say, he is playable in GoD and was the main villian in PoR. From what I can gather, Marth is mainly popular among smashers who like his powerful moveset and not so much among non-Japanese Fire Emblem fans. Ike, on the other hand, is popular among Fire Emblem fans everywhere including Japan. Therefore, he would make a far better Fire Emblem representative.

I understand why you would want for than two Fire Emblem games represented, but most of the games were only released in Japan and the Gameboy games not very well recieved inside Japan. PoR and GoD and the only two that are truly popular globally.

Oh, and who the heck is Yaoi?

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Yaoi is basically male x male pairings, usually concerning in anime or video game characters. Some have nice pictures made by fans to go along with it.

That last part was sarcasm by the way so don't look any of it up for your own sake. Xianfeng is merely commenting that the IkexSoren pairing is incredibly popular, though I think a lot of his fanbase stems from him being a decent character.

Also, I wouldn't say BK was the main villain in PoR, he was more of Ike's personal nemesis and not the main antagonist of the story. And while Marth may not be important FE wise outside Japan, in Japan he is the most important. Actually, he is somewhat important to the rest of us, as he helped FE reach us in the first place. And he is still the first lord regardless if his game was released worldwide or not. So really, I can't see how you can argue that BK is even a fraction of Marth's importance, as he's only playable for a pathetically short time and then seems to leave for a while until Ike get's to defeat him, again. And there is a term called retro, which Marth falls into quite nicely.

However, I think you're right that any new characters are likely to come from PoR or GoD (though it's a bit early to say that GoD is globally well received yet). Even Sigurd I'm skeptical about, simply because I think he's been usurped by Ike somewhat. And an international GBA lord is only likely to happen if Sakurai adds a character solely for the international audience, which will only happen if there are 4+ FE slots. However, there's still room for Marth as everyone recognizes him anyway.

Great, and here I was trying to drop the issue, but I guess I'm interested in how this turns out.

Though I feel somewhat bad for Roy, he seems somewhat of an afterthought now.

 

[SuichimoTheDragoon]

Wow. I thought we had exhausted this topic. Thank goodness for xianfeng.

First of all, I stand corrected. I've been trying to stay away from GoD spoilers lately, but I'll take your word for it that Ike will be able to weild axes. However, I think a ragnell weilding Ike would be make for a more interesting moveset.

Secondly, as I've previously stated, I don't accept that Marth is as important or more important to the Fire Emblem series than Ike. True, they both star in two Fire Emblem games, but Marth's games were released over a decade ago and were never released outside the U.S.

I would even argue that the Black Knight is more important than Marth because, as you say, he is playable in GoD and was the main villian in PoR. From what I can gather, Marth is mainly popular among smashers who like his powerful moveset and not so much among non-Japanese Fire Emblem fans. Ike, on the other hand, is popular among Fire Emblem fans everywhere including Japan. Therefore, he would make a far better Fire Emblem representative.

I understand why you would want for than two Fire Emblem games represented, but most of the games were only released in Japan and the Gameboy games not very well recieved inside Japan. PoR and GoD and the only two that are truly popular globally.

Oh, and who the heck is Yaoi?

Weren't you saying they'd be clones earlier?


You can't just say "Oh his game was released a long time ago and wasn't released here". That is nowhere near a valid excuse to say that Marth is not important. Marth is easily the most important, he was the very first Lord. He started the series. By your logic I could say that Pac-man or Pong aren't important to the video game industry.


Black Knight also holds little importance to the series as he is just the villain. He doesn't do anything new. He is just an upgraded Zephiel effectively.


Just because something was released only in Japan doesn't decrease its chances. Japan is the only one Sora is going to care about. They aren't going to really care what we say. Oh, and if the GBA games weren't well received can you please tell me why FE6 is the third highest selling FE game in Japan and PoR and GoD are on the lower end of that spectrum.

FE6 vs. FE9
http://vgchartz.com/japcomp.php?nam...+Sword&name2=Fire+Emblem+IX:+Path+of+Radiance

FE6 vs. FE10
http://vgchartz.com/japcomp.php?nam...ed+Sword&name2=Fire+Emblem+X:+Goddess+of+Dawn

Now I know that they haven't been out as long but both games dropped off sharper than FE6 did. That is a pretty good indicator that neither of them are going to sell as well as FE6. Both games also sold less in their opening weeks.

 

[Wiseguy]

Hello again LukeFonFabre. I saw your post on the "bottom five characters" thread. I take full credit for your decision to rank the Black knight as number 1.

Any way, since Ike's journey form mercenary to general is the main focus of PoR I don't think it would be a stretch to call his greatest foe, the Black Knight, the main villian of the game. He influences the game's story perhaps more than any character (excluding Ike of course) particularily when he kills Greil. Whereas, if I was exclusively a Fire Emblem fan living where I do, I would have no idea who Marth is.

Unlike Marth, who is just different enough that he could not be a clone, the Black Knight would be less time consuming to incorporate into the game because he could easily be Ike's clone. Sure, Marth and Roy's popularity did influence the decision to release the Fire Emblem series internationally, and that is a point in Marth's favor. However, with competition being so tight for the few available spaces in Brawl's roster I think that any character that can be replaced or cut should be. The last thing I want is to buy Brawl and find that out of 35 charcaters, 25 are returning Melee charcaters.

Edit: Actually, SuichimoTheDragoon (if that is your real name...) I never once said that Marth would be Ike's clone. I said that they would be too similar to justify having them both in Brawl. And when I said that the Gameboy games were not as well recieved, I was referring to the fact their charcaters are not as popular in Japan.

 

[Kazuya]

So what if Ike was one of the highest? Marth deserves to stay, he's developed a large enough fan base by appearin in SSBM to deserve a spot in the next Smash Bros.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

That's actually pretty interesting, though I heard somewhere that PoR only had a certain amount of copies made (can't confirm this, I heard it on FESS somewhere so if it's wrong I'll drop it). That and I'd say more people would've had GBA's than Gamecubes, and GoD is still fairly recent, plus I don't think everyone as Wii's yet (they might in Japan, but everywhere else it's still hard to get a hold of one, so wouldn't surprise me). Though FE6's sales are impressive to say the least.

However, with Sakurai stating he'll refrain from adding too many Japan only characters, I think most people are expecting FE characters from the recent worldwide released games. I won't rule out Japan only FE characters altogether, but I think their chances have been hurt somewhat. Even though Japan is the main target audience, I don't think they'll ignore international areas completely (seeing as Metroid is popular in the US than Japan, the fact he added a character from there seems to suggest he's trying to appease both audiences as much as possible).

@ Wiseguy - hey, I've always been against BK getting in, though I will admit my debate with you has furthered my dislike for him. Don't let it boost your ego too much though. But as I said in that post, there wasn't any order. If anything, I'd rather see BK than the rest of the characters I mentioned.

While Ike's journey is very important in PoR, I generally consider the character whose the at the main focus of the conflict to be the main villain. That's why I give the main villain title to Ashnard, as while he has no personal connections to Ike, He's the oe causing mayhem that Ike and friends need to stop. Otherwise, if BK was the main villain, the story would stop at his 'death'.

And again, Sakurai won't just add BK in because he's easier. Sakurai has shown interest in characters that have a certain style that he'd like to incorporate into his game. Yes, clones have appeared in all smash games, and chances are there may be a few in Brawl, but they only appear due to time constraints, which for the moment isn't an issue. If Sakurai is going to add quite a few clones though, then I'd expect 40 characters at the minimum to be honest. I don't want 35 characters with half of them sharing a moveset with the other half.

And you seem to be the only person that actually wants a huge overhaul of characters. most people actually expect 4 at most to be replaced, and people that expect more (which admittedly I'm one of), are really accepting that it's a possibility. You're the first person I've seen that wants a huge change in characters, though I'm interested in who you actually deem replaceable.

 

[El HP]

Axe Roy he sucks anyway and for those saying Ike replacing Marth they are completely different Ike is more like a power character.

 

[SuichimoTheDragoon]

@Wiseguy

What do you mean "If thats my real name."? XD Ofcourse it is. I also use this name at FESS and I use the name Suichimo over at NSider. Why would I use a different one.

I must have made a mistake then. However I don't see all of these similarities between the two that you do. The only real similarities are in appearance. Their fighting styles are nowhere near similar and the same goes for the type of weapon.


@Luke

I don't know, and have never heard anything of, the PoR thing. I know that they severely limited FE5's sales by only putting it up for sale through their site, Nintendo's site I should say. Also it is true that FE10 has just come out but look at the current sales data. It is slowing much slower compared to FE6. It is being beaten in both Amount Sold per Week and Amount Sold Overall, keep in mind I'm only looking up to week 5 as that is as long as GoD has been out.

GoD is actually saling a little bit slower than PoR, but it is beating it in Amout Sold per Week now. Also we are barely affecting GoD's sales. I don't believe the Wii issue is affecting Japan as badly as it is affecting here either.

FE9 vs. FE10:
http://vgchartz.com/japcomp.php?nam...Radiance&name2=Fire+Emblem+X:+Goddess+of+Dawn


@El HP

I bet you didn't know Roy got screwed over in Melee, did ya. Just because a character was bad in Melee doesn't mean they'll leave. By that merit you'd be getting rid of characters like Bowser, Kirby, and others.

Also there is a larger difference between Ike and Marth than just power. Their sword styles are so vastly different, along with the type of swords they wield. Ike wields what seems to be a traditional long sword, meant for slashing and not piercing. Marth wields a rapier, meant for piercing not slashing. Those two weapons should not be used the same way. That was one of my complaints in Melee between Marth and Roy. Marth should not have been using a rapier the same way as a great sword. It just isn't built for that kind of thing.