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Marth Matchup thread.
- Thread starter CyberZixx
- Start date
Jacob29
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
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- 530
Interesting that you guys think ZSS is his worst MU.
I chose Marth as a secondary specifically to stop getting trounced by ZSSs vs my Bowser.
On Meta Knight. Which way to throw him? Seems like we can't combo from fthrow early on too well nor any of the other throws but wanted to ask here.
I chose Marth as a secondary specifically to stop getting trounced by ZSSs vs my Bowser.
On Meta Knight. Which way to throw him? Seems like we can't combo from fthrow early on too well nor any of the other throws but wanted to ask here.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
Up-throw in most cases, f-throw only as "hard read" against DI in because that will get him a few percent earlier out of up-throw combos
Hey guys can some one help e with ike ? I have a hard time dealing with his quick draw spamming. Also i have a hard time dealing with quick draw attack it seems to beat out every move I try to use against it. So yeah any advice ?
KABO0S
Smash Cadet
In my experience, patience wins vs Ike. Try to get him off stage because his recovery options are super limited. Up-B can be punished with proper timing.
As for quick draw shenanagains, it's pretty easy to tell when it's coming. I like to spot dodge/counter it.
KABO0S
Smash Cadet
Ok guise, I'm having a huge problem with the Gannondorf matchup right now. I was playing some friendlies against a GDorf main and it was just embarrassing. I need your guru guidance.
I am not a good player by Smashboards standards, so I'm probably missing something obvious, but I could use some advice with the Diddy Kong matchup.
Like somebody else mentioned, what is the best way to deal with bananas? I try to wavedash over them and use them to my advantage, but he always seems to pick them up again right away. Should I just throw them offstage? I really have no idea what to do in neutral besides go for grabs and avoid bananas. Second (this is definitely a noob question), how should I deal with his dash attack? I always seem to get comboed by it multiple times. Shielding doesn't always work, and I have no idea how to DI/respond to it. Finally, I've had success racking up damage with up throw combos and edgeguarding his up-b, but are there any other solid ways to kill him besides that and fishing for a forward smash?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Like somebody else mentioned, what is the best way to deal with bananas? I try to wavedash over them and use them to my advantage, but he always seems to pick them up again right away. Should I just throw them offstage? I really have no idea what to do in neutral besides go for grabs and avoid bananas. Second (this is definitely a noob question), how should I deal with his dash attack? I always seem to get comboed by it multiple times. Shielding doesn't always work, and I have no idea how to DI/respond to it. Finally, I've had success racking up damage with up throw combos and edgeguarding his up-b, but are there any other solid ways to kill him besides that and fishing for a forward smash?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
@
W
WJDubs
Diddy Kong is a fairly tough matchup but Marth can hold even if he knows what to do.
If you already picked up the banana, you have pretty much all options of throwing it, glide tossing and aerial glide tossing. I like throwing it upward and glide tossing it upwards most.
You regain all moves that would normally cause you some kind of throw. The banana is still on the field which limits the numbers of usable bananas for him to one. Also eventually the banana will come down now being in your control which means you have a neutral game advantage since he will trip over it limiting his movement options. Regrabbing it is much harder because he would need to catch it above you and that will mean free up-tilts/up-airs for you.
Glide tossing up moves you a little distance and changes the throw height so learn to use it when its safe to retreat just a little while throwing the banana up.
It is not really a bad thing to just go for grabs in neutral against Diddy with Marth, you just need to back it up with movement. Dash dancing with mixed in wavedash really helps. Also the other neutral game option I would advice is down-tilt. It is strongest after wavedashs because your positioning is unpredictable then. As in all matchups, sometimes using fair and nair in neutral is also helpful but against Diddy it limits you more than against other characters so be mroe cautious and use it rather to catch his aerial approaches since you have more range.
If you aren't able to shield the dash attack, you need to choose a techroll or tech-in-place because otherwise Diddy will have free combos. With a tech option he can techchase but there is more chance to get out for you. If you shield it, sometimes dair OoS works (input the direction behind you already in jumpsquat frames so you jump a bit backwards and are more likely to hit because Diddy will be behind you after that dash attack). If Diddy is too far away just WD out of shield and it will reset to neutral. Keep in mind not to go away too much though because the close neutral game is a bit advantegous for you and if he has time to use penut gun /bananas it becomes advantegous for him.
Edgeguarding is probably the main way to KO Diddy Kong. If there is an opportunity to combo into a tipper forward smash (sometimes fair or up-air set up for it, or you can try pivot forward smashs to trap him if he is on a platform). I would never fish for it in neutral, if you can combo into it, great, but otherwise, no.
@
KABO0S
Against Ganondorf you mainly need to play out your neutral game advantage.
His only real threats in neutral game are shieldable moves, dash attack, forward tilt and down-b. He has a bad grab range and side-b hasn't that much range and is a bit slow so you should also be able to react accordingly. You should be trying to get in a grab. Use your dashdancing game and mix in WDs as always.
In many matchups where you only have a mobility advantage but could be cought offguard by shieldable moves one dashcance method especially works pretty well.
Dash forward -> shield -> WD away -> Dash forward (repeat)
until you mix in a grab or something. This is so good because if he hits your shield you can punish, you can't really be caught offguard with anything, if he tries to punish you after the WD you can react accordingly, so probably d-tilt because in contrast to standard dashdancing you still face in the right direction. Mix up the WD angles and the dash lengths though, otherwise you will be extremely predictable.
When recovering against Ganon, recover rather low.
Being able to edgeguard Ganon is extremely important for the matchup, basically you need to be able to:
- hit him away again and again if he recovers high (mostly f-smash, nair, d-tilt, fair)
- grab the ledge quickly if he side-bs or recovers low (turnaround wavedash, RARWD, RAR sh and so on)
- get the quick dairs (after shorthopping with differing horizontal momentum, also from the ledge)
For more precise advice I would need more information where specifically you have problems, I hope that helps though.
Diddy Kong is a fairly tough matchup but Marth can hold even if he knows what to do.
If you already picked up the banana, you have pretty much all options of throwing it, glide tossing and aerial glide tossing. I like throwing it upward and glide tossing it upwards most.
You regain all moves that would normally cause you some kind of throw. The banana is still on the field which limits the numbers of usable bananas for him to one. Also eventually the banana will come down now being in your control which means you have a neutral game advantage since he will trip over it limiting his movement options. Regrabbing it is much harder because he would need to catch it above you and that will mean free up-tilts/up-airs for you.
Glide tossing up moves you a little distance and changes the throw height so learn to use it when its safe to retreat just a little while throwing the banana up.
It is not really a bad thing to just go for grabs in neutral against Diddy with Marth, you just need to back it up with movement. Dash dancing with mixed in wavedash really helps. Also the other neutral game option I would advice is down-tilt. It is strongest after wavedashs because your positioning is unpredictable then. As in all matchups, sometimes using fair and nair in neutral is also helpful but against Diddy it limits you more than against other characters so be mroe cautious and use it rather to catch his aerial approaches since you have more range.
If you aren't able to shield the dash attack, you need to choose a techroll or tech-in-place because otherwise Diddy will have free combos. With a tech option he can techchase but there is more chance to get out for you. If you shield it, sometimes dair OoS works (input the direction behind you already in jumpsquat frames so you jump a bit backwards and are more likely to hit because Diddy will be behind you after that dash attack). If Diddy is too far away just WD out of shield and it will reset to neutral. Keep in mind not to go away too much though because the close neutral game is a bit advantegous for you and if he has time to use penut gun /bananas it becomes advantegous for him.
Edgeguarding is probably the main way to KO Diddy Kong. If there is an opportunity to combo into a tipper forward smash (sometimes fair or up-air set up for it, or you can try pivot forward smashs to trap him if he is on a platform). I would never fish for it in neutral, if you can combo into it, great, but otherwise, no.
@
KABO0S
Against Ganondorf you mainly need to play out your neutral game advantage.
His only real threats in neutral game are shieldable moves, dash attack, forward tilt and down-b. He has a bad grab range and side-b hasn't that much range and is a bit slow so you should also be able to react accordingly. You should be trying to get in a grab. Use your dashdancing game and mix in WDs as always.
In many matchups where you only have a mobility advantage but could be cought offguard by shieldable moves one dashcance method especially works pretty well.
Dash forward -> shield -> WD away -> Dash forward (repeat)
until you mix in a grab or something. This is so good because if he hits your shield you can punish, you can't really be caught offguard with anything, if he tries to punish you after the WD you can react accordingly, so probably d-tilt because in contrast to standard dashdancing you still face in the right direction. Mix up the WD angles and the dash lengths though, otherwise you will be extremely predictable.
When recovering against Ganon, recover rather low.
Being able to edgeguard Ganon is extremely important for the matchup, basically you need to be able to:
- hit him away again and again if he recovers high (mostly f-smash, nair, d-tilt, fair)
- grab the ledge quickly if he side-bs or recovers low (turnaround wavedash, RARWD, RAR sh and so on)
- get the quick dairs (after shorthopping with differing horizontal momentum, also from the ledge)
For more precise advice I would need more information where specifically you have problems, I hope that helps though.
D
Deleted member
Guest
how to beat bad characters-
wait or them to do something, then grab it or swing at it.
against good characters it's usually the same thing except you have to wait better
wait or them to do something, then grab it or swing at it.
against good characters it's usually the same thing except you have to wait better
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KABO0S
Smash Cadet
I think you just explained how to play Marth perfectly.
bksbestbwoy
Smash Lord
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I need some tips on dealing with ultra campy Link players. You know the type: Get space - Chuck 'rang - Bomb Toss up/Arrows until suddenly they want to move for ftilts/fsmash or gimps with the lingering ground up B hitbox as you recover. I was already improvising some stuff after seeing Sethlon using crouch cancels and power shields to get in on basic boomerang tosses, but I'm not consistent enough in imposing my will to force the Link I play against now to make more decisions for me to capitalize off of.
D
Deleted member
Guest
i just know my shit
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
The first thing you need to learn in that situation is how to apply perfectly spaced shieldpressure (using sh fair waveland, sh double fair and d-tilt) while staying out of up-B OoS range and either being quick enough to avoid shieldgrab or also staing out of that range.
This is where you want to capitalize beacuse it is Links natural weakness and Marth happens to be able to make much out of it.
In the neutral game, you want to start the dashdancing when you are close enough that any projectile would get punished. If that is not the case, you need to slowly make your way towards Link. Boomerang should be clanked, normally sh fair waveland, sh double fair, d-tilt and sh nair are best for that, they don't really limit you that much. If he arrows it has enough startup to give you much space, that makes up for the fact you eventually need to shield the arrow which isn't really what you want. WD out of it to not get punished if Link is close and WD towards Link to make him unable using more projectiles if you are out of the zone where he chases you. For bombs you just need to practice handling items, shielding is a solution which is quite good (better than against arrow), but you can also clank it which is far easier.
The biggest risks are:
Getting grabbed because you rushed in too predictably and didn't start dashdancing early enough
Getting arrowed because you didn't react in time
Up-B OoS/shieldgrab after suboptimal punishes
Your opponent predicts your "throw out moves" pattern and times the boomerang really well so you need to do a suboptimal option like spot dodge or shield to avoid it. Don't be predictable in your way to close the distance
This is a great video for the Marth Link MU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9oHZUOE8Lk
Pay most attention to how Marth:
Spaces himself before going in for the hit
Edge guards
What moves he uses to get the first hit
KDJ's style in this MU is actually really interesting because he goes against some of the conventional, fundamental, Marth wisdom. First off, he very rarely uses grabs, and just swings at Link almost all the time, even if it means hitting Link's shield. Generally as a Marth player, if you know someone is gonna put up their shield in response to your approach, you'll generally go for grabs or dtilt. You do that because Marth has lots of end lag on most of his moves and thus gets punished easily. But KDJ goes in on Link with fairs and nairs, even if Link shields! Marth's best poking tool is generally his dtilt, but KDJ never uses it! And dtilt is an amazing tool in this MU.
Now there are a bunch of times during the MU where KDJ lands from an aerial and it looks like Link would be able to grab or spin attack to punish. Sometimes, KDJ immediately goes for his up B and it either: cleanly hits Link and sends him flying, or hits Links shield, in which case KDJ lands on a platform and is safe. It works because: grab and spin attack don't come out quick enough to beat Marth's up B (plus Marth has intangibility on the first frame the attack comes out), and Link's vertical mobility is too poor to punish Marth. If Link gets conditioned into respecting the up B, I think that actually opens up advantages for Marth.
So keep in mind that while following conventional Marth wisdom works in this MU, Link's lack of agility opens up many more offensive options that Marth doesn't normally get otherwise. While Marth generally attacks at tipper/max grab range and then follows up from there, KDJ often opts to get into close quarters and beat Link up from there, and it actually works.
I'd like to see these players meet up at Smashing Grounds again and do this same MU on stream, and see if this Link has an answer to this odd style of Marth.
Pay most attention to how Marth:
Spaces himself before going in for the hit
Edge guards
What moves he uses to get the first hit
KDJ's style in this MU is actually really interesting because he goes against some of the conventional, fundamental, Marth wisdom. First off, he very rarely uses grabs, and just swings at Link almost all the time, even if it means hitting Link's shield. Generally as a Marth player, if you know someone is gonna put up their shield in response to your approach, you'll generally go for grabs or dtilt. You do that because Marth has lots of end lag on most of his moves and thus gets punished easily. But KDJ goes in on Link with fairs and nairs, even if Link shields! Marth's best poking tool is generally his dtilt, but KDJ never uses it! And dtilt is an amazing tool in this MU.
Now there are a bunch of times during the MU where KDJ lands from an aerial and it looks like Link would be able to grab or spin attack to punish. Sometimes, KDJ immediately goes for his up B and it either: cleanly hits Link and sends him flying, or hits Links shield, in which case KDJ lands on a platform and is safe. It works because: grab and spin attack don't come out quick enough to beat Marth's up B (plus Marth has intangibility on the first frame the attack comes out), and Link's vertical mobility is too poor to punish Marth. If Link gets conditioned into respecting the up B, I think that actually opens up advantages for Marth.
So keep in mind that while following conventional Marth wisdom works in this MU, Link's lack of agility opens up many more offensive options that Marth doesn't normally get otherwise. While Marth generally attacks at tipper/max grab range and then follows up from there, KDJ often opts to get into close quarters and beat Link up from there, and it actually works.
I'd like to see these players meet up at Smashing Grounds again and do this same MU on stream, and see if this Link has an answer to this odd style of Marth.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
If you space correctly you could also do this. Going for grabs or d-tilts is by no means wrong though, some just misspace it / use it in the wrong situation.
Player -0
Smash Hero
Thoughts on Lucas MU?
I've played two (One mained him other one was ESAM messing around) in tournament and gotten by with the one who mained him by abusing his lack of knowledge that F-Throw CG can be DI'ed out of (figured out that he didn't know later in the set). I'm not really sure how I beat ESAM's and then pretty much beat the Lucas main (screwed up a ledgeroll to finish his third stock :l).
I feel like the main problem I had playing the Lucas main was challenging his recovery/tether, any tips?
I've played two (One mained him other one was ESAM messing around) in tournament and gotten by with the one who mained him by abusing his lack of knowledge that F-Throw CG can be DI'ed out of (figured out that he didn't know later in the set). I'm not really sure how I beat ESAM's and then pretty much beat the Lucas main (screwed up a ledgeroll to finish his third stock :l).
I feel like the main problem I had playing the Lucas main was challenging his recovery/tether, any tips?
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
You need to be prepared for many different scenarios:
If you are quick enough do a run-off fair, otherwise grab the ledge. Catch their forced jump with an aerial, nair or up-air probably.
If you are too far away just stay onstage and keep centerstage, often tetherers have an easy time getting to the ledge but you can make it hard for them to play from then on.
If you are quick enough do a run-off fair, otherwise grab the ledge. Catch their forced jump with an aerial, nair or up-air probably.
If you are too far away just stay onstage and keep centerstage, often tetherers have an easy time getting to the ledge but you can make it hard for them to play from then on.
Jacob29
Smash Ace
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- 530
I really hate playing Marth vs Lucas. Lucas has so many guaranteed kills it's such a joke...
Down-air upsmash, down-throw upsmash what the hell man.
I feel like if the players are equal then Lucas will always have the advantage. I saw Umbreon mention that Marth should never aerial approach, so how do you deal with PK Freeze?
You can shield them, clank them I think? but then what? If you shield them Lucas can open on them, only other option is dash dancing but you if he spaces them correctly you can't punish him in time and just have to run away.
I am no professional however. So if Umbreon told me I suck at Marth and this MU is easypz I would accept it.
Down-air upsmash, down-throw upsmash what the hell man.
I feel like if the players are equal then Lucas will always have the advantage. I saw Umbreon mention that Marth should never aerial approach, so how do you deal with PK Freeze?
You can shield them, clank them I think? but then what? If you shield them Lucas can open on them, only other option is dash dancing but you if he spaces them correctly you can't punish him in time and just have to run away.
I am no professional however. So if Umbreon told me I suck at Marth and this MU is easypz I would accept it.
bksbestbwoy
Smash Lord
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Powershielding or clanks with jab/ftilt. I've actually never played this match up but I imagine just patient dashdancing and well spaced Dancing Blade 1 swats would be the majority of the ground based game in this one.
Player -0
Smash Hero
Probably just shielding at a decent space away but dash dance close to him to threaten him so he has to back up to PK Freeze so you can take more stage control. Then dair wrecks him, at least in my experience.
Jacob29
Smash Ace
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http://www.twitch.tv/cushions29/b/548129904
Alright here is me playing against a lucas for 30minutes (ish)
Sorry about the big words about a smoke break as I forgot to take it off when he came back.
Any glaring issues I have? I get better towards the end, I realised I was dash attacking way too much and all but stopped doing it at all towards the end.
Alright here is me playing against a lucas for 30minutes (ish)
Sorry about the big words about a smoke break as I forgot to take it off when he came back.
Any glaring issues I have? I get better towards the end, I realised I was dash attacking way too much and all but stopped doing it at all towards the end.
Evil Idol
Smash Rookie
So I've been having a little bit of trouble with Zelda MU. The only things I've really noticed are punishing her when she throws out fire because of the endlag and f-throw to u-smash seems guaranteed. Other than that I'm at a bit of a loss on the neutral game against her since her hit boxes seem to outplay Marth's.
InfinityCollision
Smash Lord
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Zelda has significant endlag on a lot of her attacks and a gaping hole in her spacing between kick range and the distance at which she can safely put up Din's. Camp in that space, bait her out, then punish hard.
shairn
Your favorite anime is bad.
Anybody have experience in the Dedede matchup?
I've never played a good Dedede before tonight so I was a bit surprised at how effectively he kept me away with Waddle Dees and ftilts, not to mention his tremendous grab range means I can't just cheese outside of his range and grab him.
I've never played a good Dedede before tonight so I was a bit surprised at how effectively he kept me away with Waddle Dees and ftilts, not to mention his tremendous grab range means I can't just cheese outside of his range and grab him.
KABO0S
Smash Cadet
Not so much a specific character matchup, but there's a guy I play against in locals and friendlies all the time who loves to shield grab constantly. I find myself getting sucked into his playstyle and falling for it. Any advice on how to punish besides not falling for it? I try to remember to not be in front of him when he's shielding but sometimes adrenaline takes over and I fall for it.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
Hide your approaches more and bait them into something, then grab...
Aerials on shield are problematic against Dedede, sh double fair -> d-tilt should be safe though if you fade away while doing it.
Aerials on shield are problematic against Dedede, sh double fair -> d-tilt should be safe though if you fade away while doing it.
Jacob29
Smash Ace
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So Zero thinks Marth beats Pit at high level.
But I was wondering what you players of Marth though. To me, it seems like Pit has the MU easier but I don't play at ZeRo's level.
Can combo Pit really well and I don't think Marth can kill Pit that easily with his multiple jumps, Up-B, and Side-B.
But I was wondering what you players of Marth though. To me, it seems like Pit has the MU easier but I don't play at ZeRo's level.
Can combo Pit really well and I don't think Marth can kill Pit that easily with his multiple jumps, Up-B, and Side-B.
Evil Idol
Smash Rookie
I think Marth wins neutral because of his grab range, dash speed, and mix ups. Also, powershielding in PM feels closer to Brawl so if Pit tries to arrow you, just PS it. Just don't jump because that's basically a free arrow juggle for Pit. In terms of killing Pit, Marth's Dair being a true spike is a big help considering PIt's Up-Special can only send him so high. The multiple jumps aren't as big a deal as you might think, considering each jump has a certain amount of lag frames before the next. You could punish Pit's jumps if you time it well enough. As for his Side-Special, there's not a whole lot Pit can do with it that Marth can't counteract.
Jacob29
Smash Ace
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what mix ups has he got when fighting pit? I am not that great at Marth so that is a genuine question.
Powrshieldign probably helps yeah, but its hard as heck on Netplay so I can't comment to much on that.. you can't react to the arrow and instead have to guess when they are going to fire it which leads to them just holding onto it a little longer while you have shield lag.
For multiple jumps I mean the problem is more they can recovery really really high most of the time, where I find I struggle keeping them off the stage.
Either I kill him really early with a gimp, or he just flys back above me and onto the stage or gets hit but not killed.
Powrshieldign probably helps yeah, but its hard as heck on Netplay so I can't comment to much on that.. you can't react to the arrow and instead have to guess when they are going to fire it which leads to them just holding onto it a little longer while you have shield lag.
For multiple jumps I mean the problem is more they can recovery really really high most of the time, where I find I struggle keeping them off the stage.
Either I kill him really early with a gimp, or he just flys back above me and onto the stage or gets hit but not killed.
InfinityCollision
Smash Lord
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Marth's options are a lot better than Pit's once you're in close enough to prevent him from using arrows at all. Kills can be a struggle sometimes; if he recovers high just keep pressure on him as he comes down. Dair range is pitiful and he doesn't really have much else to utilize when he's directly above you. Don't get too greedy trying to edgeguard him.
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Jacob29
Smash Ace
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So what's the secret to getting close enough lol
InfinityCollision
Smash Lord
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Powershielding is good as mentioned above. Wavedash OoS is decent. You've got a bit of range to work with there given your superior reach and dash dance.
Marth would have a huge edge on Pit, if Pit wasn't crazy gg good
I mean I guess a lot of chars would bop him in that case but yeah
I dunno what Marth players Zero is going up against, I assume M2K uses Mewtwo or Fox the most when he plays Zero?
If he means Marth vs Pit is 55:45 on a fairly conservative stage list, I'd prob agree. Not really "beating" a char by much though
I mean I guess a lot of chars would bop him in that case but yeah
I dunno what Marth players Zero is going up against, I assume M2K uses Mewtwo or Fox the most when he plays Zero?
If he means Marth vs Pit is 55:45 on a fairly conservative stage list, I'd prob agree. Not really "beating" a char by much though
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zzzzzzzzzz
Smash Cadet
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what do i need to be doing in the mario match up?
Hard to explain in detail, but basically use positional judgment on how you need to respond to Mario fireballs. For the majority of players, that will be the biggest issue for the MU. Sometimes you want a clank (where your attack stops), sometimes you want an overriding attack (usually aerials as their version of "clanking" does not reset your attack), and other times you want to use shield/power shield. You'll want to analyze their patterns, and the specific context of how the move is being used in the moment.
1. What direction, if any, is he moving while using it? Retreating, neutral, or approaching?
2. How high is he when he uses the move? Full jump or short hop, is he near the apex of his jump, already FFing, will he be able to waveland or attack before touching the ground, etc.
If you understand those things clearly while it's happening, you can pick efficient options that usually allow you one of 2 things: Small space gains/safely encroaching on Mario's space, or positionally you stay roughly the same but you get freed up to punish any bad habits. It's very rare for a decently fast character like Marth to be stuck in a position where you can't gain either of those two, assuming you respond to the projectile properly. If you can't, chances are you were stuck in a very bad stage position or choosing incorrect responses. A common mistake would be using an overpowering option when they opt to double fireball. Usually you beat the first one, but then aren't in a good place to beat the second. So on and so forth
The other aspects of the MU are still important, like recovering/edgeguarding/combo capabilities, but I think the overwhelming majority of players are basically asking how to deal with fireballs and/or dealing with edgeguarding from both characters. How Marth can recover, and how he can nab Mario.
1. What direction, if any, is he moving while using it? Retreating, neutral, or approaching?
2. How high is he when he uses the move? Full jump or short hop, is he near the apex of his jump, already FFing, will he be able to waveland or attack before touching the ground, etc.
If you understand those things clearly while it's happening, you can pick efficient options that usually allow you one of 2 things: Small space gains/safely encroaching on Mario's space, or positionally you stay roughly the same but you get freed up to punish any bad habits. It's very rare for a decently fast character like Marth to be stuck in a position where you can't gain either of those two, assuming you respond to the projectile properly. If you can't, chances are you were stuck in a very bad stage position or choosing incorrect responses. A common mistake would be using an overpowering option when they opt to double fireball. Usually you beat the first one, but then aren't in a good place to beat the second. So on and so forth
The other aspects of the MU are still important, like recovering/edgeguarding/combo capabilities, but I think the overwhelming majority of players are basically asking how to deal with fireballs and/or dealing with edgeguarding from both characters. How Marth can recover, and how he can nab Mario.
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zzzzzzzzzz
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 57
That sounds false. The only thing that you probably can't do against those moves is regular shield grab if they are spaced well. Maybe shield di would change that though.
You should def be able to wavedash oos and get a grab or Dtilt against Mario's Dsmash. Gotta be quick about it. Ganon can jump OOS and land Side B, at least against Dsmash, so Marth should be able to pull something off. I don't know what frame disadvantage Mario is with his Fsmash, so that might be slightly more or less punishable.
You should def be able to wavedash oos and get a grab or Dtilt against Mario's Dsmash. Gotta be quick about it. Ganon can jump OOS and land Side B, at least against Dsmash, so Marth should be able to pull something off. I don't know what frame disadvantage Mario is with his Fsmash, so that might be slightly more or less punishable.
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chrisall76
Smash Apprentice
Hi all, how do I deal with Bowser and Squirtle? I had a Bowser player kill me in about a minute today lol.
And the Squirtle was really annoying to deal with.
And the Squirtle was really annoying to deal with.
Bowser is very weak to grabs and low juggles. The primary goal should be to grab Bowser, as this goes through any CC/armor/counter attack he has. Approaching in the air vs a good Bowser is basically not a great idea, so use your Dash Dance and grab range to threaten grabs a lot. He's not that mobile, you just have to correctly respect his range.