Marth Matchup thread.

[DMG]

Pivots are a lot easier in PM, if you grind them out you can do it.
You can also enter run faster by double tapping the analog stick to the direction you want to move very quickly.

How would that impact anything if PM has no buffer?

 

[eideeiit]

How would that impact anything if PM has no buffer?

What? Like the "enter run quicker by double tapping forward"?

Actually thanks for pointing this out, I went over this in debug just now and found out my previous info isn't quite correct.

For anyone interested:

When you press forward you enter "dash". Marth's "dash" lasts for 15 frames, during which you can dash dance and pivot.
Once "dash" ends you enter "run", in which you can crouch and then dtilt.
The length of the dash before entering run seems to be set, always being that characters dash duration. (new info for me.)
The distance you travel in dash, however, isn't. You gain more momentum the longer you hold forward. If you tap forward for just 1 frame your dash will end much closer to where you started it from than if you hold it.
If you're not holding forward when your dash ends, you enter some sort of a "dash-end" state, in which you're still dashing, but can dash again both forward and backward. (Foxtrotting)
If you hold forward at the end of your dash you will enter run, despite not holding forward for all of the dash.

So by tapping forward quickly and then pressing forward again, you don't enter run faster, but travel less during your dash, allowing you to cancel your run with crouch closer to the spot you first dashed from.

So it's not faster frames-wise, but allows for massively different spacings for dash-run-dtilt.

Earlier I'd thought not pressing forward all the time also shaved some frames off the dash. The placebo of pressing more buttons and moving less I guess.

 

[Taytertot]

So the fact of the matter is what Charizard lacks in mobility, he makes up for in less laggy start up and endlag.

Because of this, Zard can actually physically threaten space, as opposed to Marth who does a lot of psychological threatening.

Zard has such low endlag on his attacks that the classic approach of DDing to bait an attack and then punishing the whiff endlag isn't reliable. You want to start pressuring him with dtilt ASAP, and make great use of run up shield to stuff Zard's physical pressure. Zard isn't disjointed in neutral, so he extends his hurtbox even more than Marth does, making him worse vs shields. Use shields offensively in this MU, it is very very good.

Also jabs are very good in this MU. Remember that you have a quick, long reaching attack that is very likely to tip thanks to the way neutral gets played and is thus likely to lift up Zard from the ground, completely screwing his momentum.

i would like to point out that while zard's ftilt isnt disjointed, dtilt and jab are disjointed. his tail hurtbox doesnt extend the full length of his tail so tipper dtilt is pretty safe and zard's wings have a similar disjoint. the wing hurtbox extends part way up the main bone of the wing but not to the end iirc so while i think marth should be able to out disjoint zard's jab (idk if marth can out disjoint zard's dtilt) the spacing is going to be a bit tight.

 

[Kneato]

Format- Character: Matchup from

's Perspective (+3 has Marth winning)

+3:

+2:

+1:

0:

-1:

-2:
-3:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate?

This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.

 

[eideeiit]

Format- Character: Matchup from

's Perspective (+3 has Marth winning)

:0

:0

:0

:+1

:+1

:0

:0

:-1

:+1

:-1

:0

:+1

:+1

:+3

:+2

:+2

:0

:+1

:+2

:-1

:+1

:+3

:+1

:0

:+1

:+1

:+2

:+2

:+3

:-1

:+2

:0

:+1

:+2

:+2

:+1

:-1

:0

:0

:+3

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate?

Could you give some reasoning for TL, Lucario and Wario? Also Zards seem to think they win, it had something to do with the options Zard has out of a run beating Marth's. Also is Bowser really a 3?

 

[permafros7]

Marth can CC/zone the **** out of Lucario. Furthermore, Marth has a better dash dance. From my experience, they both combo each other pretty well, but neutral is not even a contest.

 

[Taytertot]

Could you give some reasoning for TL, Lucario and Wario? Also Zards seem to think they win, it had something to do with the options Zard has out of a run beating Marth's. Also is Bowser really a 3?

do you feel that the wario mu isnt in marth's favor?
i think marth destroys wario. one of wario's weaknesses is that he doesnt have the range to easily poke in neutral and doesnt have the speed to have solid shield pressure, making his neutral game as a whole somewhat lackluster. his gameplan in neutral being basically, jump and weave back and forth to try to bait out something that is easily punishable by weaving back in the air and then hitting them; the mixups hes got generally boils down to fair/nair walls, using retreating fair on shield or nair crossup on shield and using a falling bite to punish overuse of shield. marth can easily punish all of this with fair/nair walls and marth has good combos on wario.

 

[Kneato]

Could you give some reasoning for TL, Lucario and Wario? Also Zards seem to think they win, it had something to do with the options Zard has out of a run beating Marth's. Also is Bowser really a 3?

I don't have a reasoning

This is the current state of the community matchup chart. I ask because I'm trying to gather opinions from the individual boards to update the chart.

 

[shairn]

Wario is basically Jiggs with less jumps but better normals, so Marth eats him up.

 

[Kulty]

Guys, kinda unrelated. Who are good professional Marth players who mainly play Project M? I want to find videos about that professional in order to learn more about Marth. Who demonstrates well how Marth is supposed to be played?

 

[EnigmaticScarecrow]

Who are good professional Marth players who mainly play Project M?

Well besides the obvious (Mew2King), Chip has a pretty good Marth as well.

 

[Kulty]

Well besides the obvious (Mew2King), Chip has a pretty good Marth as well.

Can Sora be a good reference? He's one of the most consistent PM Marth players right now. He plays Marth along with Captain Falcon mainly. According to the ranking from PM, he's like second best Marth player after M2K.

 

[EnigmaticScarecrow]

Can Sora be a good reference?

Yeah, I'd say so.

 

[Kulty]

It's so sad that PM Marth players are not as active as opposed to the other characters, because they rather play Melee Marth over PM Marth due to Marth's tools being a lot weaker in PM as opposed to Melee.

 

[eideeiit]

Look up mr. Meseeks from OK I think.

 

[Kulty]

Look up mr. Meseeks from OK I think.

What do you mean? Where can I find it?

 

[eideeiit]

http://youtu.be/Suw_onBBX2A

The guy in this vid, plays PM Marth, is good, put his name on google or some ****.

 

[X Riptide X]

I know you asked for PM players, but hey, there's always the King. M2K is still by far one of the best Marths (PPMD is comparable) and there are a handful of sets where he picks Marth in PM. Learn from the best.

 

[Mechaglacier]

How does one go about the mew2-Murth Mu

 

[X Riptide X]

Edgeguards. Marth's neutral is one of the best in the game, and Mewtwo's is rather shoddy in comparison. If you get a Marth offstage, though, his stock is as good as gone. It really is frustrating to deal with that sword, since it basically renders your own disjoint useless in many cases and turns your tail into a liability. Just play some mind games, teleport, moonwalk, sticky bounce, basically do anything to make Marth mess up so you're in a position to get an edge guard

 

[Rpggames77]

trying to find a fairly decent counter to marth, i play the whole cast but some of the characters you guys say that win( ) i tend to lose with, especially zard (keep getting countered). Any tips/recommendations?

 

[Only a NOOB]

trying to find a fairly decent counter to marth, i play the whole cast but some of the characters you guys say that win( ) i tend to lose with, especially zard (keep getting countered). Any tips/recommendations?

If you are getting countered a lot, it just means you are being too predictable. Has nothing to do with the matchup IMO.

Also, keep in mind that basically everything in this thread is insanely old.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Hello Marth folks. As a new Snake player I have been struggling in neutral against Marth's d-tilt and superior dash dance. My aerials always get clipped by Marth's disjoint so I constantly lose against hitbox spam. Any advice on dealing with hyper aggressive fair/dtilt walls? I really don't want to platform camp with grenades, but that seems like one of the only ways to reach Marth.