Marth Matchup thread.

[bksbestbwoy]

That match up is fun as ****, but it really just boils down to keeping him out of his optimal "maul you" range. Lasers are annoying only if you think of them as things you absolutely have to avoid at all times. You have to think of them as a penalty tax and do what Marth does best which is abuse godlike ground movement and make opportunities by playing the other person's reactions/psyche. If you're good with crouch canceling into dtilts/ftilts you can take some chances on mixing up approach and retreats from dash dancing with a poke to catch them off guard.

Specifically though, abuse dash dance jump cancel grabs until Fox is grabbed then begin autopilot up throw chains to death.

I hate how all my advice for this character boils down to either "space harder", "mind game harder" or "dash like a mad man harder". lol

 

[CelloLuCC]

That match up is fun as ****, but it really just boils down to keeping him out of his optimal "maul you" range. Lasers are annoying only if you think of them as things you absolutely have to avoid at all times. You have to think of them as a penalty tax and do what Marth does best which is abuse godlike ground movement and make opportunities by playing the other person's reactions/psyche. If you're good with crouch canceling into dtilts/ftilts you can take some chances on mixing up approach and retreats from dash dancing with a poke to catch them off guard.

Specifically though, abuse dash dance jump cancel grabs until Fox is grabbed then begin autopilot up throw chains to death.

I hate how all my advice for this character boils down to either "space harder", "mind game harder" or "dash like a mad man harder". lol

Thank you! much appreciated. And one last thing, just to clear up, I shouldn't try to avoid his lasers at all times?

 

[Player -0]

Don't tank lasers for no reason. If tanking them gives you stage control or gives you a combo/whatever then go for it.

If you CC a high Nair then grab (either by JC grabbing or shield grabbing quickly) or F-Smash typically. If it's a low Nair then typically shield the shine.

Literally watch M2K vs. Mango in Melee.

 

[CelloLuCC]

I tried some of the stuff said, and on my fourth or so try I almost won, just messed up on an edgehog and SD'd. My problem is the upsmash, I keep getting caught.

EDIT: beat em, I gotta use dtilt and ftilt more

 

[Scaremonger]

Idk if this has been asked already, but...

Anyone have tips for Fox? When I get close (enough to hit with tipper) he runs all over me, and if I'm farther back (outside my reach a bit) he spams lasers. If I go for grabs, I get shined. Any tips?

Fox-Marth guides have been being written for like a decade and a half. Google it.

Also, pivot grabbing will beat every ****ty scrub Fox in the world.

 

[Honor]

Looking for thoughts on the Zelda MU.

I feel like she's able to dictate the pace of the game to a degree because of Din's setups. She also seems to be able to interrupt my combos when I throw in a Nair with her Fair/Bair. I'm wondering that's just bad spacing on my part or if Nair is just not and option that I should use.

Anyway, general thoughts would be awesome.

 

[Player -0]

How is she hitting you out of combos?

 

[Honor]

How is she hitting you out of combos?

Not sure, it could be that I'm waiting a couple frames too long between Nairs. I also spar with a guy who has 3.0, would that make a difference?

 

[Player -0]

1. Why are you playing 3.02

2. Are you sure you're combo-ing?

 

[Honor]

1- Because I only got back into the game after a long break in the last month.

2- Probably not, considering he's managing to sneak in a Fair every once in awhile. I usually hit him too but Zelda Fair sweet-spotting is obviously much nastier.

 

[UMR | donmk]

1- Because I only got back into the game after a long break in the last month.

2- Probably not, considering he's managing to sneak in a Fair every once in awhile. I usually hit him too but Zelda Fair sweet-spotting is obviously much nastier.

I play against a Zelda player quite frequently (although both of us aren't really amazing at the game), but I find the most important part of the match-up is knowing when to disengage. There are times when you think you can continue the combo, only to get faired out of it. Usually, I find I can only nair once and then it becomes unsafe, so I go for grounded options like ftilt or utilt.

Dash dancing is really important, you want to use as much of your movement as possible, considering Zelda doesn't have that many options. The problem is that you are playing 3.02, which allows Zelda to have a lot more stage control options. Firstly, she can have three fireballs out as opposed to the one she gets in 3.5 (albeit one that can be really annoying when she recalls it). Second, she can't airdodge cancel her up b, meaning that if she shortens it, she gets no offensive option (since the new shorten doesn't have a hitbox and has some endlag unlike the wavedash out she could do in 3.02). Lastly, her aerial nayru's love has less invincibility in 3.5 (maybe none at all) so nayrus -> autocancel -> attack is nowhere near as safe.

These three changes in 3.5 give Marth a lot more options in neutral. In 3.02, you just need to camp out her fireballs with fair until she makes a mistake that you can punish.

 

[Player -0]

Zelda shouldn't be able to set up any Din's. Stand just out of her dash attack and Fair range and punish anything she does. Then juggle her and she can't get down.

 

[Honor]

I'm getting wrecked by DDD over the last couple weeks. He out spaces me, out camps me, has a crazy grab range, and a Fair that makes me want to scream.

Advice please

 

[CelloLuCC]

i am a noob don't listen to me

 

[Player -0]

DDD wins the MU. Make sure to ban any stage with a top platform if possible. DDD can camp the top platform and wreck you. This means for first pick if possible go to PS2 or SV. For bans take out Skyworld, DL, and the like.

 

[IcefireD]

I need some tips on fighting Yoshi, Bowser, and Mewtwo. Mainly the first two though.

 

[Player -0]

Yoshi = Get bodied. His DJ eats your aerials. Space around his jumping mindgames and go for grab whenever he goes for a landing. Be careful for a nB mixup that reaches farther than his usual stuff. Footstool his DJ if he comes close. He can do a rising Nair/Up Air as a mixup but I think you can always footstool -> Dair to cover both options. If you mess up the footstool you're probably getting edgeguarded though.

Bowser = Grab, a lot. If he's doing a lot of flame cancel shenanigans then jump over it and Fair. You should essentially never do an aerial without it being a part of a combo. NEVER overcommit with your combos because of Bowser's armored Nair can eat through it and hit you. You can always win neutral game. If he's coming down on your shield then roll away if possible as it's most likely a koopa klaw.

Mewtwo = You can outspace him. You can juggle him hard. I'm pretty sure you can CC his neutral game into much later percents.

 

[V]

Are there any match ups in which Marth is much better than Roy?

 

[Player -0]

Prob Mario and Luigi and a couple others. I think Marth only does a couple MU's better. Can't think off the top of my head right now though.

 

[X0dus]

Are there any match ups in which Marth is much better than Roy?

Ike, spacies, Captain Falcon, Ivy, Marth is a little better against Shiek, DK, Ganon(?), Probably Snake. I think Marth has a better overall match-up chart than Roy, but because there are bigger stages and more big stages compared to Melee, its harder for Marth to kill.

 

[V]

Now on the flip side, are there any match ups that are difficult for Marth that Roy has a much easier time with?

 

[X0dus]

Now on the flip side, are there any match ups that are difficult for Marth that Roy has a much easier time with?

The only character I can think of that Roy probably does better against is Rob because Marth has a very hard time killing him because he is floaty and heavy and has to spike him or tip him at high percents in order to kill him and Roy doesn't have a problem killing, but because Rob is floaty it is hard to combo at higher percents but at low and mid, he combo's the **** out of him because he is big and heavy. I personally think Marth is a better character in terms of match-ups, but I can understand people who think Roy is overall better.

 

[Player -0]

ROB beats Roy really hard.

 

[X0dus]

ROB beats Roy really hard.

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.

 

[jtm94]

Who do I pick up to beat Marth that isn't Sheik?

 

[Charby]

Your main, but you have to get better. I know surprising

 

[Player -0]

Doesn't he play G&W? Sounds bad but doable.

 

[jtm94]

I more or less wanted to know good MUs against Marth, not advice on my main against Marth.

 

[CyberZixx]

DK beats Marth.

 

[X0dus]

Who do I pick up to beat Marth that isn't Sheik?

Yoshi, Charizard, Rob, DK(?), Falcon, Spacies (Of course), and maybe Ganon.

 

[CelloLuCC]

Spacies are debatable, Marth does well against them if he can grab them consistently and doesn't drop an edgeguard.

Charizard is definitely In favor of Marth, he out ranges him and out combos him a little bit.

Yoshi is ***Ing terrifying. Play Yoshi.

 

[CyberZixx]

I for sure don't wanna play vs Yoshi as Marth. I'd rather not fight Rob, DDD, DK or Sheik either. past patches Lucario was a pain but I think with his nerfs it should be easier. I also never liked Marth vs mario but I have not played that match up since 3.0. Probably even now.

 

[Getsafe]

Doesn't he play G&W? Sounds bad but doable.

Marth wrecks G&W HARD

 

[CelloLuCC]

Yoshi against Marth is like Jiggs to peach.

I haven't messed around with mewtwo for a while, bit I recall him being a 9-1 matchup or something like that (coulda been Mario)

And DDD is annoying, out ranges you and isn't slow enough to punish consistently. Plus waddledee spam.

 

[Rawkobo]

Okay, this has been bugging me since I last saw this thread.

What makes Mewtwo a bad matchup, and what makes ROB a bad matchup? Marth combos and outspaces the hell out of Mewtwo these days, and the one problem we had with ROB, which was getting him to stay in a string and get essentially 0-to-death'd, got adjusted so that his matchup spread is actually fair and reasonable now. Why are we still saying that those matchups are trash for Marth when they clearly haven't been analyzed enough in this patch to know for sure?

I maintain that DK, Dedede, and Yoshi are definitely bad matchups, Sheik is trivial.

 

[CelloLuCC]

Mew2 up b is tricky, and generally out combos you.
Now that I think about it, it seems more of a 50-50 MU

 

[Rawkobo]

Mew2 up b is tricky, and generally out combos you.
Now that I think about it, it seems more of a 50-50 MU

Mewtwo can get good punishes, yes, which is why 50-50 is a reasonable claim. It's a relatively volatile matchup, kind of like Falcon-Marth in Melee. A good confirm can give either of you an edge. I wouldn't say it's anything less towards Marth.

 

[Player -0]

Idk about M2, imo it sounds even or a tad in M2's favor.

ROB: Has projectiles that make neutral difficult as well as his boosts. He can boost over D Tilt and wait out Fairs. He also converts pretty well still.

 

[Zmorris94]

Just picked up marth about a week or so ago and I'm wondering about the ivy matchup, I've heard marth destroys ivy, and I do well against my friend when we're both on stage, but I'm not quite sure what to do against him off stage and I usually just kill myself, what should I do?

 

[UMR | donmk]

Just picked up marth about a week or so ago and I'm wondering about the ivy matchup, I've heard marth destroys ivy, and I do well against my friend when we're both on stage, but I'm not quite sure what to do against him off stage and I usually just kill myself, what should I do?

If he's offstage, just ledgegrab. If he has to tether to recover, you can punish the tether ledge jump. If not, hop off the ledge and aerial him.