Marth Matchup thread.

[DMG]

I dunno if it's that heavily in our favor. We're a really ****ty weight/floaty for Sonic. It may be a lot closer to 55:45 or barely 6:4, with some stages being very close to 5:5.

 

[Tee ay eye]

You don't need to learn a new character for the bad matchups, always be aware that you will probably be better with your Marth and matchups are never that uneven. If you are confident getting really good at another character though, I would recommend it against Zard and Donkey Kong because Marth has no spacing advantage against those characters and the are heavy enough to get Marth in this "I can't combo into a kill move" issue.

That's not complete by any means but I hope it helps. If you have any other questions or would like some details, just ask

yeah, that's been my philosophy with melee marth, and i think i've gotten a lot of improvement sticking with it.

however, my fox isn't awfully far behind my marth, and since i'm unfamiliar with PM, i didn't know if there are any matchups where i pretty much have to switch.

(2. what moves of sonic do you need to watch out for in neutral? like, what are his best pokes, fastest moves, shield traps, and anti-CC moves, etc? also, something i want to ask about specifically is his anti-airs vs you, especially vs your nair and fair zoning. i always try to play a very grounded marth, but furthermore, i don't really know my limits as well in pm vs melee, so i find myself getting punished in situations where i think i'm safe bc of melee.)
All kinds of SHFFL aerials, but thats the same against most characters. Down-b and side-b are the most Sonic specific neutral game things. Sonic mostly works with fakeouts because he can't rely on his grab only and you can shield most other stuff. Grab is anti CC obviously, but fair, nair and up-tilt are also depending on percentage. Only try CC when he spins normally because his side-b kick and his down-b are fairly weak to CC. Airwise his nair has some combo breaker properties and dair can trap you when you want to air chase him with up-airs. He also has better landing than other characters. Also he has some escapes with up-b, beware of the spring projectile. Summed up, if your reads are decent you will have a slight neutral game advantage, be a bit cautious with overextending in the air and crouch cancel/shield his spin stuff.

This are the tips I gave so far, MU is in Marth's favor, probably around 65-35, because Marrh is outranging Sonic quite significantly and Sonic has no safe way to approach if Marth's sword walls him out. It is by no means free though, a few little tricks and fakeouts and Sonic is in and combos you hard.

that was fairly informative. in my experience of fighting against sonic (and pretty much all the PM characters with weird mobility), i just respect him too much bc i don't know the strengths, limitations, or even when he can do his spinning attacks, so i ended up giving away free real estate for no reason.

it is good to know, however, that most of his attacks are not very strong against CC and maybe shield.

so let me get this straight:
-vs sonic, you can shield or CC most of his attacks
-if you shield/CC, he will probably start opting for grabs
-if he starts doing that, you need to keep him honest by moving around better and poking/zoning a little more
-if you start getting too adventurous with your movement or happy with swinging your sword, he will easily whiff-punish you?
-and if he does that, you can go back to shield/CC?

 

[DMG]

If you get good at it, you can opt to grab first and "generally" beat most of Sonic's own options up close, including his grab since he'd have to get closer to land it. He can bait it out, but it gives you another legit option for the CC/shield mixup to help make it more solid.

 

[Tee ay eye]

do you mean grabbing him in his windup before he launches his spins? if so, that's something i actually try to do vs sonic, but i just forgot to mention it.

another question:

what do i need to know about pivot grabs in pm? particularly..
a. i heard they have more range, but idk if this is true. if they do, is it because of hitbox interpolation?
b. i heard they have shorter cooldown, but idk if this is true
c. how do you input them? can you do them out of both initial dash + full run? can you jump-cancel them, or does jump-canceling turn them into standing grabs?

 

[DMG]

No, I mean just tossing out grab as they come in close. The mixup for defensive choices like shielding or CCing, poking, and maneuvering gets stronger when you add in grabs. Any option you have generally can be baited, but at a certain range he's forced to accept risks if he wants to get closer or put out a move. The only reliable way around this + your normal range, is to play very patiently/bait style. Grabbing tends to beat a lot of his choices up close. This does not work as well vs very patient Sonic players, or ones that can monstrously pivot for very tight spacing, but it's an option that helps you win a lot of the RPS. You grabbing tends to beat him grabbing, will stop any cheesy "running shield" choices, can trade or beat many of his attacks at that kind of range, etc. You also might get the option of better punishes out of the grab, than if you had to resort to a walling move. Even pivot grabs can really mess with their heads and have them reconsider spacing/your own mobility.

It's still a MU you have to play well in. I think Sonic would go close to even if someone absolutely brutal were behind the character. Like if you mixed Wizzrobe with Sethlon, that combined talent playing as Sonic would not make this MU feel very strong for Marth.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Wizzrobe vs Sethlon I would love to see that MU sorry for derailing the topic.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

@ Tee ay eye
The pm pivot grab (not the same as the pivot standing grab like a pivot f-smash just a grab instead) has a completely different grabbox normally. I don't know how it is for Marth (maybe influenced from Brawl). Same goes for cooldown. If you are facing away from the opponenet dashing I would recommend DD dash grab normally but pivot grab if he is particularly near, because otherwise DD dash grab could miss because in the beginning of the animation you still move a bit.
You input it by grabbing during dash turnaround animation, best if inputted shortly after the turnaround input obviously. Pivot grab is also better when you are out of initial dash because you can't just DD dash grab.

 

[tauKhan]

@ Tee ay eye
The pm pivot grab (not the same as the pivot standing grab like a pivot f-smash just a grab instead) has a completely different grabbox normally. I don't know how it is for Marth (maybe influenced from Brawl). Same goes for cooldown. If you are facing away from the opponenet dashing I would recommend DD dash grab normally but pivot grab if he is particularly near, because otherwise DD dash grab could miss because in the beginning of the animation you still move a bit.
You input it by grabbing during dash turnaround animation, best if inputted shortly after the turnaround input obviously. Pivot grab is also better when you are out of initial dash because you can't just DD dash grab.

The brawl/pm pivot grab is inputted during run turnaround, not dash turnaround, for clarification. You can also jump during the run turnaround and be turned around after the jump unlike in melee, that is how you do RARs.

 

[Tee ay eye]

whats a RAR

 

[tauKhan]

It stands for reverse aerial rush (stupid name ), and is basically as i explained,if you jump during run turnaround you'll actually be turned around unlike in melee, thus you can do very quick turnaround aerials or turnaround wavedash from run

Also check up the new movement and pivot techs in general discussion, they are potentially useful for marth.

 

[Tee ay eye]

oh, duh, i knew that

i used to do that with TL in brawl

 

[Deleted member]

I cannot deal with Sonic. My Marth is probably the worst against him too. Anyone know any good tips of taking him out? He just b-spams and it's stupid easy to combo with him out of all of his moves. Spamming counter against him is pretty funny lol.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

There are some tips on page 3, if you have more detailed quesetions feel free to ask them.

 

[Deleted member]

There are some tips on page 3, if you have more detailed quesetions feel free to ask them.

Thanks, a lot of those tips helped. Do you have any tips on how to recover against him? When I'm on the ground he can just watch where I roll and side b to me and combo me or up b uair when I'm above.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

If he gets too near to the ledge, do a drop forward jump with an aerial, best is probably nair. Otherwise just mix up options, roll or WD onstage etc.

 

[Infantinoduck]

Samus, lots of missiles, wat do?

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Clear them out with fair/nair/(other moves) is a solid option, powershielding is also fine. If you get punished for it that means Samus is missile approaching then you should start moving around andavoid them. A mixup for a quick missile approach is counter but I'd recommend to not use it too often.

 

[Infantinoduck]

I was afraid that was the answer since it's harder to do in P:M or at least the fire ones. It feels like I clank or trade hits with them way more. Also the power shielding feels different too or at least I haven't figured out the timing yet.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Try to position so the missile is on the same height as your furthest hitbox, so rising sh nair is great for example. I hope this helps

 

[Infantinoduck]

Alright yeah thanks! I'll try that more next time me and my buddy play

 

[Jackson]

I posted this in the general discussion thread already more in depth, but the Project M Marth boards seem to be a bit slow and I really wanted help. How should I play the Captain Falcon matchup? He kills me around 70 percent lower than I kill him every stock, which is probably due to me fishing for grabs too much, but what strategy can I utilize to beat him? Thanks.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Play it like you normally would in most aspects and just convert every edgeguard, even if you kill him at 150 after hitting him off ten times when he tries to recover, he will still have no chance from ~70% on and you could view it as evening the kill percents out.
Also pay attention on the neutral game. Don't get grabbed, the only move that should get you if you space right is nair (you can't always avoid to get naird, especially if he gets a read). If he doesn't get anything else he won't combo as good. Also if he gets a combo DI in is counterintuitive but the best solution in most cases. You can get first hits by punishing nair with a grab/d-tilt or just dashdancing better than him and getting in a move, probably a grab.

 

[Jackson]

Play it like you normally would in most aspects and just convert every edgeguard, even if you kill him at 150 after hitting him off ten times when he tries to recover, he will still have no chance from ~70% on and you could view it as evening the kill percents out.
Also pay attention on the neutral game. Don't get grabbed, the only move that should get you if you space right is nair (you can't always avoid to get naird, especially if he gets a read). If he doesn't get anything else he won't combo as good. Also if he gets a combo DI in is counterintuitive but the best solution in most cases. You can get first hits by punishing nair with a grab/d-tilt or just dashdancing better than him and getting in a move, probably a grab.

Thanks, man this was great stuff. You may be right about the edge guarding, I think I need to be mlre aggressive with it.

 

[Tee ay eye]

I posted this in the general discussion thread already more in depth, but the Project M Marth boards seem to be a bit slow and I really wanted help. How should I play the Captain Falcon matchup? He kills me around 70 percent lower than I kill him every stock, which is probably due to me fishing for grabs too much, but what strategy can I utilize to beat him? Thanks.

only 70?

something to accept about falcon is that he will inevitably live obscenely long sometimes. i've played a set with GG7 in melee where i won game 3 last stock high %, and when i checked the post-game stats, i did 600 damage to him, and he did 300 to me

in fact, that's a problem with marth in general, and there's 2 ways to fight against it
1. get better with kill setups/edgeguards
2. remind yourself that you're marth, and you *have* the luxury to bat falcon around for 100% longer than normal, as long as you stay smart/patient and dont mess up. marth is a position-based character, and if you execute him well, the opponent WILL die, and it shouldn't matter that much how long it takes

those 2 things are obviously a lot easier said than done, but that's the idea

here's a few more notes about the matchup though

-fishing for grabs isn't very good against falcon as a primary strategy because he has a really good DD so he can run circles around you for trying to play really passively against him. you can't really spam grabs until after you've already conditioned him with your sword. furthermore, his ground options (aside from his movement) aren't that strong, and his aerials, in large part, go over your grab hitbox and he can hard-punish your grabs with knee and dair if you're too predictable with it, his aerials have more range, his jump has more range (bc hes more fast), so he's a lot safer against grab when he uses his aerial approaches. when you compare this with fox, for example, fox doesn't cover as much space when he shorthops, fox's attacks don't have as much range, and i think fox's SH is lower to the ground (and your grab box)
(side note: brawl pivot grabbing could be useful against falcon, but i don't have much exp with it since i'm just a melee marth who dabbles in PM. regardless, it should still not be your go-to strategy)

-d-tilt is basically your most important move with marth, and it's not an exception against falcon. this doesn't mean you can spam it, but d-tilt is basically what allows you to use the rest of marth's kit. d-tilt is what stops people from overextending and punishing your defensive grab game. d-tilt is what keeps people scared in the corner so you can lock them down. d-tilt is what makes people jump into your anti airs. d-tilt is what stops people from running around and makes them start acting. etc etc etc

basically, you use dtilt along with aggressive threats of dtilt and good dashdancing in order to lock down his ground options and his movement. and then you use everything else you have to counter everything else he has.

i could say a lot more, but i'd prefer to answer slightly more specific questions, otherwise i'll be typing for a while.

 

[Jackson]

only 70?

something to accept about falcon is that he will inevitably live obscenely long sometimes. i've played a set with GG7 in melee where i won game 3 last stock high %, and when i checked the post-game stats, i did 600 damage to him, and he did 300 to me

in fact, that's a problem with marth in general, and there's 2 ways to fight against it
1. get better with kill setups/edgeguards
2. remind yourself that you're marth, and you *have* the luxury to bat falcon around for 100% longer than normal, as long as you stay smart/patient and dont mess up. marth is a position-based character, and if you execute him well, the opponent WILL die, and it shouldn't matter that much how long it takes

those 2 things are obviously a lot easier said than done, but that's the idea

here's a few more notes about the matchup though

-fishing for grabs isn't very good against falcon as a primary strategy because he has a really good DD so he can run circles around you for trying to play really passively against him. you can't really spam grabs until after you've already conditioned him with your sword. furthermore, his ground options (aside from his movement) aren't that strong, and his aerials, in large part, go over your grab hitbox and he can hard-punish your grabs with knee and dair if you're too predictable with it, his aerials have more range, his jump has more range (bc hes more fast), so he's a lot safer against grab when he uses his aerial approaches. when you compare this with fox, for example, fox doesn't cover as much space when he shorthops, fox's attacks don't have as much range, and i think fox's SH is lower to the ground (and your grab box)
(side note: brawl pivot grabbing could be useful against falcon, but i don't have much exp with it since i'm just a melee marth who dabbles in PM. regardless, it should still not be your go-to strategy)

-d-tilt is basically your most important move with marth, and it's not an exception against falcon. this doesn't mean you can spam it, but d-tilt is basically what allows you to use the rest of marth's kit. d-tilt is what stops people from overextending and punishing your defensive grab game. d-tilt is what keeps people scared in the corner so you can lock them down. d-tilt is what makes people jump into your anti airs. d-tilt is what stops people from running around and makes them start acting. etc etc etc

basically, you use dtilt along with aggressive threats of dtilt and good dashdancing in order to lock down his ground options and his movement. and then you use everything else you have to counter everything else he has.

i could say a lot more, but i'd prefer to answer slightly more specific questions, otherwise i'll be typing for a while.

Great help man. I'm gonna have to apply what you've told me. It seems like everyone's consensus against Falcon is better edgeguards.

 

[JUSTN]

marth vs wolf?
marth vs lucario?
marth vs lucas?

Marth V. Wolf - wolf is an overly-aggressive char. play it slow with lots of shield grabs and f-airs. use your grabs to start your combos/tech chases. also use dash dancing to keep him on his toes at all times. watch out for his f-smash which has lots of range, but a good f-air can get over the attack for a good punish. for his recovery i recommend d-tilts or off stage back airs. a good timed f-smash will do good as well.
Marth V. Lucario - Lucario relies on his high % aura, so try to kill him as early in % as possible. he is pretty hard to edge gaurd with his ability to curve around while using it but if you can predict where he will go and use a counter/f-smash, which will work very well. also watch out for his giant aura ball. it might fly slow, but one miss-timed step/jump will put you back a good 35%. lucario is also floatey so try not to use up throws and stick with down/forward throws so you can combo from them.
Marth V. Lucas - Lucas relies on his f-air and dash attack to start combos for the most part. these can be easily predicted and countered/shield-grabbed. if you let him get in too close he can really punish so keep your spacing and use those f-airs and neutral airs to keep him from coming in. you can use you u-throws for some good combos early in % and later use the d-throw/f-throw. since he is heavy, a
ken Combo works very well against a Lucas. for edge guarding i would recommend waiting and timing a f-smash because an off-stage edge guard could be easily punished hard and cost a stock. since he needs to perfectly time it to get on the ledge, use this strategy to keep him from using his recovery too carelessly. always keep the pressure on as well and try not to let him charge because that could really be bad.
IMO:
Marth V. Wolf = Wolf > Marth (soft counter)
Marth V. Lucario = Marth > Lucario (normal counter)
Marth V. Lucas = Marth > Lucas (hard counter)

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Marth V. Wolf - wolf is an overly-aggressive char. play it slow with lots of shield grabs and f-airs. use your grabs to start your combos/tech chases. also use dash dancing to keep him on his toes at all times. watch out for his f-smash which has lots of range, but a good f-air can get over the attack for a good punish. for his recovery i recommend d-tilts or off stage back airs. a good timed f-smash will do good as well.
Marth V. Lucario - Lucario relies on his high % aura, so try to kill him as early in % as possible. he is pretty hard to edge gaurd with his ability to curve around while using it but if you can predict where he will go and use a counter/f-smash, which will work very well. also watch out for his giant aura ball. it might fly slow, but one miss-timed step/jump will put you back a good 35%. lucario is also floatey so try not to use up throws and stick with down/forward throws so you can combo from them.
Marth V. Lucas - Lucas relies on his f-air and dash attack to start combos for the most part. these can be easily predicted and countered/shield-grabbed. if you let him get in too close he can really punish so keep your spacing and use those f-airs and neutral airs to keep him from coming in. you can use you u-throws for some good combos early in % and later use the d-throw/f-throw. since he is heavy, a
ken Combo works very well against a Lucas. for edge guarding i would recommend waiting and timing a f-smash because an off-stage edge guard could be easily punished hard and cost a stock. since he needs to perfectly time it to get on the ledge, use this strategy to keep him from using his recovery too carelessly. always keep the pressure on as well and try not to let him charge because that could really be bad.
IMO:
Marth V. Wolf = Wolf > Marth (soft counter)
Marth V. Lucario = Marth > Lucario (normal counter)
Marth V. Lucas = Marth > Lucas (hard counter)

I do agree with some of it, but also not with other stuff.
Relying on shieldgrabs against Wolf is not a good strategy because Wolf can apply some good shield pressure (e.g. doubleshine -> WD back -> sh laser -> shine ->aerial -> laser hits shield , many more possibilities, just to name one). Also the move you should watch out for is also Dash Attack, F-smash is only really a threat if a laser is also travelling your way. Wolf's aerials on theirselves are not safe on shield though, so you can sometimes punish him, it is dependent on experience etc.
Lucario also has the shield pressure of doom so watch out not to shield that much, movement is superior. I prefer neutral-B for edgeguarding because it is more flexible than f-smash and more punishing than counter. Also Lucario doesn't profit from high percent anymore.
Lucas isn't heavy, he just has a high fallspeed, I am sure you meant to say that so just for the readers...

Your neutral game is always important and these matchups are no exception, move around and fake them out. Wolfs and Lucas projectile are pretty slow/long on startup so you can powershield/cancel them out. Just try to get a grab/ spaced pressure with for example sh double fair -> d-tilt.

 

[RedGamer]

Marth V. Lucas - Lucas relies on his f-air and dash attack to start combos for the most part. these can be easily predicted and countered/shield-grabbed. if you let him get in too close he can really punish so keep your spacing and use those f-airs and neutral airs to keep him from coming in. you can use you u-throws for some good combos early in % and later use the d-throw/f-throw. since he is heavy, a
ken Combo works very well against a Lucas. for edge guarding i would recommend waiting and timing a f-smash because an off-stage edge guard could be easily punished hard and cost a stock. since he needs to perfectly time it to get on the ledge, use this strategy to keep him from using his recovery too carelessly. always keep the pressure on as well and try not to let him charge because that could really be bad.
IMO:
Marth V. Wolf = Wolf > Marth (soft counter)
Marth V. Lucario = Marth > Lucario (normal counter)
Marth V. Lucas = Marth > Lucas (hard counter)

thanks a ton, but I've long since figured out the matchups. My least practiced matchup is lucas, but I know someone that plays lucas.
I don't really play P:M anymore cause ever since 2.6b I don't really have a main :/
I'm still soul searching I guess.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

thanks a ton, but I've long since figured out the matchups. My least practiced matchup is lucas, but I know someone that plays lucas.
I don't really play P:M anymore cause ever since 2.6b I don't really have a main :/
I'm still soul searching I guess.

Fox will always be waiting.

 

[RedGamer]

I used to main fox, except he is too basic and I don't even like him in melee.
I mained falcon, but the grab physics are too different.
I mained falco, but I main him in melee and I hate P:M falco with a passion.
I mained sheik, but eh.
same with marth.
right now, I'm trying metaknight.

I guess if there's anything I can contribute to this matchup thread is this:

Wolf > Marth
Marth > Lucario
Marth > Lucas (close)
Marth > Roy (close)
Falcon > Marth
Fox > Marth (close)
Falco > Marth
Marth > Zelda
Sheik > Marth (close)
ROB > Marth
Marth > Kirby
Marth = Metaknight
Ganondorf > Marth (if not even)
these are all my own opinion.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I used to main fox, except he is too basic.

wut

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I used to main fox, except he is too basic and I don't even like him in melee.
I mained falcon, but the grab physics are too different.
I mained falco, but I main him in melee and I hate P:M falco with a passion.
I mained sheik, but eh.
same with marth.
right now, I'm trying metaknight.

I guess if there's anything I can contribute to this matchup thread is this:

Wolf > Marth
Marth > Lucario
Marth > Lucas (close)
Marth > Roy (close)
Falcon > Marth
Fox > Marth (close)
Falco > Marth
Marth > Zelda
Sheik > Marth (close)
ROB > Marth
Marth > Kirby
Marth = Metaknight
Ganondorf > Marth (if not even)
these are all my own opinion.

Falcon vs Marth should be even because of the edgeguarding. Sheik vs Marth is worse for Marth than Falco vs Marth so maybe change the (close). Marth should be slightly inferior to MK and superior to Ganon.

 

[RedGamer]

wut

I don't like him.
too bread-and-butter, too simple, too much "this is what you do in this situation and nothing else", eh.
I've played this character for a year and I don't like him.

Falcon vs Marth should be even because of the edgeguarding. Sheik vs Marth is worse for Marth than Falco vs Marth so maybe change the (close). Marth should be slightly inferior to MK and superior to Ganon.

maybe he is inferior to MK and superior to ganon. but not by much.
falcon lives longer than marth in that matchup. (dying at > 100% with good DI vs killing at about 60% with good DI) these stats were based on my own biased opinion.

 

[JUSTN]

Falcon vs Marth should be even because of the edgeguarding. Sheik vs Marth is worse for Marth than Falco vs Marth so maybe change the (close). Marth should be slightly inferior to MK and superior to Ganon.

metaknight in my opinion is equal or less than Marth. marth has better range and better movement speed by a little bit, as well as more power. meta knight has a better recovery and that's it. with MK's light weight and little range compared to Marth, i think Marth > MK IMO

 

[LordShade67]

At the risk of sounding like a scrub, I believe discussion about Boomera-I mean Link is required HERE(rather than a separate thread). Worst matchup for the Altean Prince now? Do-able(NOT IN THAT WAY)? Or are we better off picking up a secondary?....Okay, maybe not THAT bad.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

@ LordShade67
Link is a decent matchup for Marth, there are at least 5 worse matchups. Maybe its 55-45 Marth, maybe 50-50, maybe 55-45 Link, probably even or evenish. Link just wrecks mid-level players superhard. If you have problems with the matchup, my advice would be to practice hitting his projectiles away with almost no commitent, practicing powershielding, and spaced shield pressure (mostly fair and d-tilt) while staying out of grab and up-b OoS range. Edgeguarding can take long and be annoying, but you should be able to convert most of the time. Be aware Links options are very limited when you are close to him (slightly out of his range), because everything he does would get punished. Play it a little more in favor to offensive playstyle (don't just rush in though), make him shield by good movement and shield pressure from then on. Keep your spacing and do much WD stuff.

@ JUSTN
Meta Knight is at least 55-45 against Marth. Marth doesn't even outrange MK at all angles (they outrange each other at their best fair angles, f-smash beats his spacing but is punishable) and as soon as MK is in you have nothing to get him off and he will continue his combos. The d-throw techchase can also annoy Marth very much. Marth has that awkward killing problem sometimes so against good recoverers I wouldn't bet on fast kills (except YS and WW of course) while MK has pretty solid edgeguards on Marth.
The biggest problem is that MK has incredible positioning and air combos and Marth has no combo breaker like shine or Luigi's nair and his side-b/fair are slow in relation and don't cover downward angles where MK will shark you. Marth can sometimes get fast kills, he has a good grab game, his neutral isn't worse, but it seems to not be enough. The matchup isn't that bad, just not completely even.

@ RedGamer
Marth dies earlier percentagewise but if you can edgeguard Falcon's linear recovery it should make up for ot. Maybe you die at 85% and get him at like 140%, but if you hit him off at 70% just hitting him away over and over, not letting him recover, isn't it like he had no chance earlier? I think in percentage where edgeguards play a huge role it isn't that good to calculate with percentage. Its more like both need to put in the same amount of reads/ affort in neutral game /consistency in combos and edgeguards to take the stock, and I think it is even. Maybe Marth even has a little neutral game advantage because of his grab range, but that heavily depends on the stage. Falcon has the mobility to make up for it.

 

[Tee ay eye]

@ LordShade67
Link is a decent matchup for Marth, there are at least 5 worse matchups. Maybe its 55-45 Marth, maybe 50-50, maybe 55-45 Link, probably even or evenish. Link just wrecks mid-level players superhard. If you have problems with the matchup, my advice would be to practice hitting his projectiles away with almost no commitent, practicing powershielding, and spaced shield pressure (mostly fair and d-tilt) while staying out of grab and up-b OoS range. Edgeguarding can take long and be annoying, but you should be able to convert most of the time. Be aware Links options are very limited when you are close to him (slightly out of his range), because everything he does would get punished. Play it a little more in favor to offensive playstyle (don't just rush in though), make him shield by good movement and shield pressure from then on. Keep your spacing and do much WD stuff.

what are the 5 worse matchups?

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Charizard, Donkey Kong, ZSS, Diddy Kong, Sheik, and arguably MK, Samus, Dedede, Falco and maybe some others I might forget. The first few are at least 45-55 against Marth and Link doesn't reach that imho. If I think about it, for Marth it is quite decent that there is no ultimate Marth slayer with 65-35 vs Marth or so, out of 41 characters (if you consider many characters have multiple hard counters)

 

[NickLeo]

When on stages with minimal platforms like FD, SV, and PS2, I think that ZSS might be marth's worst matchup.
She has her neutral b as a harassment/approach tool which can't be clanked with and she can out space Fairs with side B

Despite me thinking that this is marth's worst situational matchup, it can't be any worse than 60-40... Marth OP

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I feel like Mario is the best in having no bad matchups. Anyways, I quite like it to be able to use a character against anyone with only little disadvantage at worst, it must be horrible to be a single char main who has really bad matchups but only has love for one character^^