Marth Cps and Bans

[ScareMl]

Hi guys, this is ScareMi, and I'm making my first thread, so bear with me if I mess up something.

Somebody in the marth boards mentioned making a thread about stage bans and counterpicks for the entire cast. So I'm going to start it up, and everyone contribute. I feel this is really important because stages do matter against most characters and marth mains should have a source to turn to when they're playing a ladder match against an unfamiliar MU and don't know what stages to ban or counterpick. I have to ask Clowsui whenever a MU pops up that I dont know, and he's great at helping me, but it would be nice and convenient to have a thread like this to refer to. Besides, we don't want some poor marth main taking metaknight to rainbow cruise.

Before we jump into counterpicks and bans, there's no set stage list for every country, and regions vary over whether certain stages are legal. Here's the one I'm going to use:

Final Destination (starter)

Smashville (starter)

Battlefield (starter)

Lylat Cruise (starter/counterpick)

Yoshi's Island (Brawl) (starter)

Pokemon Stadium 1 (starter/counterpick)

Halberd (counterpick)

Delfino Plaza (counterpick)

Castle Siege (counterpick)

Rainbow Cruise (counterpick)

Brinstar

Pokemon Stadium 2

Frigate Orpheon (counterpick)
T1:

T2:

Counterpicking and Banning with Marth

There's no guaranteed win by counterpicking or banning any stage against any character, but some do defintely give you an advantage. To begin, Marth ***** on just about every neutral stage, esp. smashville and battlefield and is usually terrible on Halberd. Marth does the best on these two for numerous reasons, so if you can, take opponents to one of these two.

Before we begin listing specific facts and details, CJ once said two things for counterpicking stages as marth:

1) ALWAYS counterpick the stage you're most comfortable on.
2) Olimar doesn't apply to the above statement. Olimar is a ******.

The first statement is vital because a certain stage can be good against a certain character, but if you don't know the ins and outs of the stage, it can backfire, badly. So if you had to choose between a good counterpick stage and a stage that's not as advantageous but you're more comfortable on, go with the latter.

And as far as banning goes, in general if you're not sure what to ban in a match, just don't ban battlefield or smashville.


What to Counterpick/Ban against Who as


Metaknight
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza, Frigate Orpheon, Brinstar
CP: Smashville, Final Destination, Castle Siege

Olimar
Ban: Lylat, Halberd, Castle Siege
CP: battlefield, Final Destination, Brinstar

Diddy Kong
Ban: Final Destination, Halberd, Smashville, Pokemon Stadium 1
CP: Battlefield, Lylat, Delfino Plaza, Frigate Orpheon

Ice Climbers
Ban: Final Destination, Castle Siege, Lylat
CP: Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, Brinstar

Snake
Ban: Halberd, Yoshi's Island, Frigate Orpheon, Lylat
CP: Battlefield, Lylat, Smashville, Rainbow Cruise, Delfino

Falco
Ban: Pokemon Stadium 1, Halberd
CP: Final Destination, Smashville, Lylat Cruise

Marth
Ban: this ones comes down to comfort, you're not going to have any advantage or disadvantage on any stage unless you don't know it.

Pikachu
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, FD, Halberd
CP: Brinstar, Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Smashville

Wario
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Brinstar
CP: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Smashville

ZSS
Ban: Delfino Plaza, Rainbow Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 1
CP: Battefield, Lylat Cruise, Frigate Orpheon

Lucario
Ban: Yoshi's Island, Frigate Orpheon
CP: Smashville, Lylat Cruise, Battlefield, Brinstar

DDD (this MU is so gay)
Ban: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Halberd
CP: Battlefield, Smashville, Lylat Cruise

Toon Link
Ban: Pokemon Stadium 1, Final destination
CP: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Smashville, Frigate Orpheon

Wolf
Ban: Final Destination, Lylat
CP: Smashville, Castle Siege

GnW
Ban: Frigate Orpheon, Rainbow Cruise, Halberd
CP: Smashville, Final Destination

Fox
Ban: Halberd
CP: Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Battlefield

Peach
Ban: Brinstar, Frigate Orpheon
CP: Yoshi's Island, Smashville, Battlefield, Lylat Cruise

Pit
Ban: Final Destination, Delfino Plaza, Frigate Orpheon, Lylat Cruise
CP: Smashville, Brinstar, Battlefield, Yoshi's Island

Rob
Ban: Frigate Orpheon, Final Destination
CP: Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island

Kirby (**** this MU)
Ban: Frigate Orpheon, Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza
CP: smashville, Battlefield, Final Destination

Sheik

Sonic
Ban: Yoshi's Island, Final Destination
CP: Brinstar, Lylat Cruise, Battlefield, Delfino Plaza

Donkey Kong

Ike
Ban: lylat cruise, battlefield, delfino plaza, Halberd
CP: Final Destination, Smashville, Brinstar, Frigate Orpheon

Yoshi
Ban: Halberd, Yoshi's Island, Pokemon Stadium 2
CP: Battlefield, Smashville, Final Destination, Castle Siege

Ness
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Halberd, Delfino Plaza
CP: Final Destination, Smashville, Castle Siege

Pokemon Trainer

Luigi

Lucas
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Halberd
CP: Smashville, Battlefield, Final Destination, Castle Siege

Mario

Samus

Bowser

Captain Falcon

JigglyPuff

Link

Zelda

Ganondorf






This is all the time I have at the moment. If anyone is familiar at a particular MU with marth, can you comment in the same format as above and i'll add it in when i get the chance. Feel free to correct me, add on, and add new stuff. Hope this benefits the marth community at large.

 

[ScareMl]

reserved i guess

 

[Nicholas1024]

Why do you have FD down as a CP against Falco? Considering his lasers, that's something I'd be more inclined to ban than CP.

Against Snake I'd ban Lylat/Halberd. Lylat because the platforms are perfect for C4/mine tricks (and you almost can't see said traps once he's planted them), and Halberd mainly for the low ceiling.

 

[ScareMl]

just powershield the lasers and with no platforms, we can juggle him, trap/punish his phantasm better, and he can't really hurt us much. i'd take falco to fd over bf anyday


and thanks, added the bans to snake

 

[clowsui]

Metaknight
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza, Frigate Orpheon
CP: Smashville, Final Destination, Castle Siege

I actually might like BF better than SV but it's just style + preference.

Olimar
Ban: Halberd, Castle Siege, Lylat (whichever one you think this particular Olimar will benefit from the most)
CP: Battlefield, Final Destination*

WHY FD?
Olimar has no spots to land on this stage. A single read spells huge trouble for Olimar especially on a juggle. This is a "**** or get *****" stage but the length of the stage makes this preferable to SV imo because you can run away in the neutral situation. Also I think Olimar gets more benefits from the platform on SV than Marth BUT that's just me.

Diddy Kong
Ban: Halberd, FD, SV
CP: Battlefield, Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise

Why ban SV? While landing sucks on FD your juggle traps get some bonuses on this stage + you get to run away. On SV Diddy can assert stage control very easily. CP'ing Delfino Plaza is a good idea if you are proficient on the stage, as it Lylat Cruise. Moving stages like Delfino help break up Diddy's stage control and the slants improve Marth's ground game noticeably on Lylat.


Ice Climbers :iceclimber:
Ban: Final Destination, Castle Siege
CP: anywhere not flat and you can hide/camp from their grab

Please don't CP Lylat Cruise vs ICs. Frigate is also not a great choice. Siege actually isn't really worth a ban so long as you know how to play the slants on transformation 3 and you are good at timing out on part 2. Most ICs will not CP this stage on you.

Snake
Ban: Pokemon Stadium 1, Halberd
CP: Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Rainbow Cruise

Marth wins the MU on RC by a sizeable margin but you should only pick the stage if you know it very well and understand how Snake works on that stage. All the other picks should boil down to player preference and your assessment of the Snake player's strengths/weaknesses.

Falco
Ban: Halberd, Stadium 1
CP: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Final Destination

Halberd is pretty underrated for Falco while Stadium 1 is overrated BUT most Falcos will default to SV when not given the option of FD. If they're smart they will CP PS1 instead but if they're even smarter they'll CP Halberd which is a huge pain in the neck for Marth. As for your own CPs be wary of the advantages Falco gains on both stage. On Lylat Cruise Falco has a different (not improved, just different - it's probably slightly weaker than his normal one) and on BF Falco has huge trapping ability.

As for FD vs BF argument I'll agree it's close. To be honest I'd probably CP FD but that's because I'm good on that stage.

Marth
Ban: this ones comes down to comfort, you're not going to have any advantage or disadvantage on any stage unless you don't know it.

Pikachu
Ban: Halberd, FD
CP: Lylat Cruise, Battlefield

FD actually doesn't do THAT much for Pikachu IMO. Halberd should be your first ban. As for your own CPs...not much to say here? haha

Wario
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon
CP: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Smashville

YI is TERRIBLE for Wario. Unfortunately, most Marths do not know how to play that stage. Default to SV if the Wario bans FD.

ZSS
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Halberd
CP: Smashville, Battlefield

Smaller stages = better. Corner Zero Suit and she has nothing. It's probably a good idea to get good at FD for the sake of people who will CP you there. Marth is pretty good at using FD vs ZSS.

Lucario
Ban: Yoshi's Island, Frigate Orpheon
CP: Smashville, Lylat Cruise, Battlefield

Yoshi's and Frigate both have tons of shenanigans for Lucario that are just *** to deal with. Ban YI before Frigate, Marth has advantage during first transformation on Frigate if he plays it right and holds the left side. As for those three CPs, standard. Go w/ what you're comfy with

DDD
Ban: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island
CP: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise

I would sooner ban Yoshi's Island before FD. The ledge trap is 1000x worse on Yoshi's Island. The small size of the stage doesn't help you at all.

Toon Link
Ban: Halberd, Delfino Plaza
CP: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Smashville

Halberd and Delfino are fun times for TL in different ways - Delfino is the go-to ban though, as TL is quite a bit stronger on there than Halberd.

Don't CP Lylat unless you know it. It's actually very good vs TL but you need to have adequate stage knowledge.

Wolf
Ban: Lylat Cruise, Final Destination
CP: Castle Siege, Smashville

Don't take Wolf to BF unless you are a better player than the Wolf player.

GnW
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Halberd
CP: Final Destination, Smashville

No brainers for bans. Flat stages that allow you to abuse your superior ground game = good. More platforms and/or low ceiling = more and more tilted towards GW (though the matchup only becomes his favor on RC).

Fox
Ban: Halberd
CP: Delfino Plaza, Battlefield

Low ceiling.
Delfino hurts Fox quite a bit. CP'ing Lylat is a bad choice as Fox benefits from the platform height immensely in addition to the length of the stage.

Peach
Ban: Delfino Plaza
CP: Final Destination, Smashville

Delfino supremely underutilized stage for Peach. Most Peaches will wanna take you to BF though, which is fine in every Marth's book.

Peach doesn't gain huge benefits from the platform on SV and struggles with getting cornered/juggled on that stage. Additionally FD negates her platform pressure elements and makes it extremely ****ty for her when she's cornered/juggled lol.

Pit
Ban: Lylat Cruise, Final Destination
CP: Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island

Lylat's tilts and length as well as platform height make it annoying to deal w Pit camping. He also gets the option to scrooge. It's better than FD because he doesn't get juggled as hard BUT on FD he gets more space to run away + annoy you + control.

Small stages where you can quickly corner Pit and trap him are preferable. If you are good at YI, he can't scrooge on there and the platform is really awkward for him to deal with.

 

[Ayce God]

my name is nova not "someone" and wow you saved me alot of work. ill add my input later. im sleepy now. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[-Jumpman-]

Final is terrible vs mk. He doesnt get gr spiked and you cant pressure his shield or get dmg through ledgeguards.

 

[yoshi8984]

I just came into this thread randomly.
Being a Ness main (and using some other characters) I kinda want to say some things.

Against Ness, try to CP to long stages, like FD so that the deathgrab will last longer. Or stages with walk-offs like Castle Siege. (the 2nd part at least =P)

If it's legal in your area, BAN BRINSTAR. Ness benefits a lot from that stage and a back-throw there will kill you at around 90-100%. Platforms are tiny, so deathgrabbing there will have minimum effect. On the bottom part, those things in the middle might get Ness stuck or just make him advance. It's not perfectly flat, so he might escape it.

Eh, I'm not sure about Delfino since the water does benefit Ness and can D-Air spike you, but there's also walk-offs which benefit you. Could go either way there =P
-------
How good of a stage is Lylat against Peach? The tilting can screw up her floating. Though be careful if you are on the left or right platform, she can sweetspot U-Smash you. =P

If it's legal in your area, BAN JUNGLE JAPES against her.
-------
As for Kirby... eh, I'm not too sure, though PS1 benefits Kirby. He can do the Earthquake glitch on the Grass transformation and some characters get screwed over by the lip there. He also has some other shenanigans on the other transformations, but I'm not too sure on those shenanigans. XD
-------
Lucas, pretty much the same for Ness.
-------
Hope this helps!

 

[Raziek]

Your OP doesn't include Castle Siege as a ban against Olimar, as it definitely should.

I personally enjoy taking Oli to Delfino, have been fairly successful with that.

Not really sure why Brinstar isn't in the list, that's still legal in a lot of places. Should def be listed as a ban against Wario. As for CP's, I recommend adding Castle Siege, I routinely take our Wario to whichever he doesn't ban between FD/CS.

Halberd needs to be a ban against Pit (Sharks the flying transformation for days), and I would add Siege as a CP against Pit. Can't fly under any transition, first one is close-combat, second he can't shoot through statues, third he has to alter his angles.

 

[Nike.]

Brinstar and PS2 should be added to the OP.

I'll do the matchups that I feel the most comfortable with.

I also feel that others contributing should consider 4 counterpicks against every character they mention. In the event of a 3/5 set (WF/LF/GF/etc), your opponent will ban 1 stage and your goal is to come up with 3 stages to try (daves stupid rule).



[COLLAPSE="Olimar"]BAN
s1:

C/P
:brinstar:[/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Snake"]BAN
:yoshisb:

C/P
[/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Pikachu"]BAN


C/P
:brinstar: [/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Zss"]BAN
:brinstar: :rainbowcruise: s1:

C/P
[/COLLAPSE]




[COLLAPSE="Toonlink"]BAN
s1:

C/P
:yoshisb: [/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Peach"]BAN
:brinstar:

C/P
:yoshisb: [/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Sonic"]BAN
:yoshisb: :yoshisb: :yoshisb:

C/P
:brinstar: [/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Yoshi"]BAN
:yoshisb:

C/P
[/COLLAPSE]




[COLLAPSE="Bowser"]BAN
:brinstar:

C/P
[/COLLAPSE]

Adding reasoning later, but I guess one obvious thing is that I LOVE Lylat and think it works in alot of MU's (or the lessor of evils in some cases).

 

[C.J.]

<3 Nike's list. Lylat is amazing in so many MUs and is arguably better for Marth than SV/BF.

Not enough CS tho.

 

[Nike.]

Olimar
Ban: Halberd, Castle Siege, Lylat (whichever one you think this particular Olimar will benefit from the most)
CP: Battlefield, Final Destination*

WHY FD?
Olimar has no spots to land on this stage. A single read spells huge trouble for Olimar especially on a juggle. This is a "**** or get *****" stage but the length of the stage makes this preferable to SV imo because you can run away in the neutral situation. Also I think Olimar gets more benefits from the platform on SV than Marth BUT that's just me.

I feel that PS1 is a bigger ban than Lylat Cruise in this matchup. The only time I've ever played on Lylat is if Denti and I are actually striking and it ends up being the last stage. I think his line up percentages end up being the only true negative, while Marth gets better juggle options, platform cancelling, supreme edgeguarding (though, edgeguarding is a double edged sword), and options against Olimars walling. The stage changes on PS1, however, always enhance the Oli camping. We can't just wait it out, though, and must approach because he'll simply make the line up he wants. I feel like it's almost as bad as Castle Siege and Delfino.

Diddy Kong
Ban: Halberd, FD, SV
CP: Battlefield, Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise

Why ban SV? While landing sucks on FD your juggle traps get some bonuses on this stage + you get to run away. On SV Diddy can assert stage control very easily. CP'ing Delfino Plaza is a good idea if you are proficient on the stage, as it Lylat Cruise. Moving stages like Delfino help break up Diddy's stage control and the slants improve Marth's ground game noticeably on Lylat.

I think your SV theory is wrong. I've talked with gnes about it a few times and played him enough in tourney to know that PS1 is the ultimate diddy counterpick when FD is banned. on SV, yes he gets one of his best stages, but I honestly feel that the platform utilizes everything we do, either offensively or retreating. It won't stop the double naner game, but what does? All changes on PS1 destroy Marth in this matchup, a big contributor being the flat ground being changes into elevated terrain at certain parts and these buff the naner game alot imo. Our ledge options on PS1 against 2 naner setup is hopeless and we're reduced to planking our way back on.

I really think that SV is at worst a stage strike, while PS1 is borderline as bad as FD.

Snake
Ban: Pokemon Stadium 1, Halberd
CP: Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Rainbow Cruise

Marth wins the MU on RC by a sizeable margin but you should only pick the stage if you know it very well and understand how Snake works on that stage. All the other picks should boil down to player preference and your assessment of the Snake player's strengths/weaknesses.

I really hate PS1 against Snake, but I don't think it's ban worthy. PS1 is a nightmare for a snake recovering below the stage (no jump, c4, yadayada) because of the unique design on the sides of the stage and unless the snake is extremely good at teching -> instant grab ledge, he will always be forced to go around and take the c4 damage to nearly triple digits range.

Yoshi's would be snakes best option after Halberd.

Pikachu
Ban: Halberd, FD
CP: Lylat Cruise, Battlefield

FD actually doesn't do THAT much for Pikachu IMO. Halberd should be your first ban. As for your own CPs...not much to say here? haha

Pikachu's (and Sonic's) worst stage is hands down brinstar. It will always be an auto ban, but if they didn't for some reason, we just got a free win. After that... yeaaa lol. Pika's just too versatile and like Marth does fine on most stages.

Peach
Ban: Delfino Plaza
CP: Final Destination, Smashville

Delfino supremely underutilized stage for Peach. Most Peaches will wanna take you to BF though, which is fine in every Marth's book.

Peach doesn't gain huge benefits from the platform on SV and struggles with getting cornered/juggled on that stage. Additionally FD negates her platform pressure elements and makes it extremely ****ty for her when she's cornered/juggled lol.

Illmatic has shown me the light: Brinstar, followed by Frigate, are Peach's best counterpicks in this matchup. RC to an extent. Basically, the super ghey counterpicks. I've never felt hindered on Delfino against Peach, what is it about the stage that helps her enough to c/p?

I personally enjoy taking Oli to Delfino, have been fairly successful with that.

I think your nuts.

Not enough CS tho.

As much as I try to tell myself that it's just a personal issue, I really can't understand the CS hype from other Marth's. I just don't see it. Bar MK (lol), I don't know any character in top/high tier that should be taken to Castle Siege when there are always other options (maybe IC's?? idk)

 

[clowsui]

I feel that PS1 is a bigger ban than Lylat Cruise in this matchup. The only time I've ever played on Lylat is if Denti and I are actually striking and it ends up being the last stage. I think his line up percentages end up being the only true negative, while Marth gets better juggle options, platform cancelling, supreme edgeguarding (though, edgeguarding is a double edged sword), and options against Olimars walling. The stage changes on PS1, however, always enhance the Oli camping. We can't just wait it out, though, and must approach because he'll simply make the line up he wants. I feel like it's almost as bad as Castle Siege and Delfino.

PS1 is way worse than Lylat, idk why I didn't think of PS1. You're right on this one...I bodied every Olimar I've played on Lylat too lol. NOW that being said no one should underestimate the power of Yoshi's or Lylat for Olimar >_>

I think your SV theory is wrong. I've talked with gnes about it a few times and played him enough in tourney to know that PS1 is the ultimate diddy counterpick when FD is banned. on SV, yes he gets one of his best stages, but I honestly feel that the platform utilizes everything we do, either offensively or retreating. It won't stop the double naner game, but what does? All changes on PS1 destroy Marth in this matchup, a big contributor being the flat ground being changes into elevated terrain at certain parts and these buff the naner game alot imo. Our ledge options on PS1 against 2 naner setup is hopeless and we're reduced to planking our way back on.

I really think that SV is at worst a stage strike, while PS1 is borderline as bad as FD.

Step your ground game up. I aim to time out on PS1 when I play Diddy on that stage. Usually when you ban SV they take you to FD anyways lol.

BTW speaking of Gnes, as a side note I think Marths have the wrong idea when it comes to stage striking. When you think that you are playing against someone who is likely better than you, you strike to the worst of the best stages given so that way they can't go back to that stage due to DSR. For example, given a 7 starter list, Diddy strikes Lylat and CS.

I then think about the remaining stages.
Yoshi's - about even
FD - Diddy's favor
BF - about even
PS1 - Diddy's favor
SV - slight Diddy's favor

No Diddy will pick Yoshi's or BF on Marth when they have better choices later in the set.

So:
FD
SV
PS1

Out of these three stages what do I want to strike down to? Well, I know that SV is only slightly in Diddy's favor while the other two are bad for Marth. And I know that the Diddy player is a better player than me so I want a game 3, if it happens, to go to a stage that doesn't confer upon him huge benefits. So this means that I will want to go to SV g3, which leaves

FD
PS1

This one's just preference. Both have distinct advantages/disadvantages for Marth. Either way, if I know that THE DIDDY PLAYER IS BETTER THAN ME, I want g1 to go to one of these two stages.

Going back to the five stages:
Yoshi's - about even
FD - Diddy's favor
BF - about even
PS1 - Diddy's favor
SV - slight Diddy's favor

I choose to strike off Yoshi's, SV, and either FD or PS1.

Given a choice between BF and FD/PS1, the Diddy will pick non-BF option.

Game 2 you beat him on your CP (you're capable of doing this, Nike lolol).

Before Game 3 you ban the other one of the two stages you hate. Now he's locked from going to both the "guaranteed" stages and the set hasn't been decided by the first game.

This goes for all the ******s who complain about stage striking vs Diddy like Minty. Learn to use the system.

I really hate PS1 against Snake, but I don't think it's ban worthy. PS1 is a nightmare for a snake recovering below the stage (no jump, c4, yadayada) because of the unique design on the sides of the stage and unless the snake is extremely good at teching -> instant grab ledge, he will always be forced to go around and take the c4 damage to nearly triple digits range.

Yoshi's would be snakes best option after Halberd.

I dunno about Yoshi's being better than PS1 for Snake...but you have more exp vs Snake so I'll take your word for it. While Yoshi's is smaller the giant platform hates Snake and slants only help Marth out when it comes to edging out Snake ground-game wise. Plus I find it really easy to gimp Snake here.

Pikachu's (and Sonic's) worst stage is hands down brinstar. It will always be an auto ban, but if they didn't for some reason, we just got a free win. After that... yeaaa lol. Pika's just too versatile and like Marth does fine on most stages.

Brinstar wasn't on the list. Now that everyone is assuming it is, I agree lol

Illmatic has shown me the light: Brinstar, followed by Frigate, are Peach's best counterpicks in this matchup. RC to an extent. Basically, the super ghey counterpicks. I've never felt hindered on Delfino against Peach, what is it about the stage that helps her enough to c/p?

The only reason why you have trouble on Frigate vs Ill is because he practices that stage a lot. Same with Brinstar. Me and Ill go even when we're not SD'ing on Frigate...and that's online, where Peach is mega broken and Marth is buttcheeks. You are just bad at RC, there's no way Peach beats Marth on that stage lmao.

Delfino just mitigates a lot of Peach's problems in the MU (recovery, being trapped, dying to vertical kill moves, etc). I don't have trouble on here but I'd sooner ban it than Brinstar.

 

[PEACE7]

Metaknight
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza, Frigate Orpheon
CP: FD, SV, BF

Olimar
Ban: Halberd, Castle Siege
CP: Battlefield, Final Destination (I agree with clowsui), and i seem to do good against them on frigate as well


Diddy Kong
Ban: PS1, FD
CP: YI, Frigate, Lylat


Ice Climbers
Ban: Final Destination, Castle Siege
CP: BF, Lylat, i feel like lylat is really similar to BF


Snake
Ban: Pokemon Stadium 1, Halberd
CP: Battlefield, RC, Frigate, Delfino


Falco
Ban: He does really well on stages that we do well so IMO just ban somewhere where you don't feel comfortable playing the mu.
CP: Lylat Cruise, Final Destination, Frigate, Delfino



Marth
Ban: The stage you hate most lol

Pikachu
Ban: RC,Halberd, Castle Siege (He can chaingrab us on the slants)
CP: BF, lylat

Wario
Ban: Halberd, RC
CP: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Smashville

ZSS
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Halberd
CP: Battlefield, Frigate, Lylat, SV (Because of her pieces)

Lucario
Ban: Yoshi's Island, Frigate Orpheon, Halberd
CP: Smashville, Lylat Cruise, Battlefield

DDD
Ban: Final Destination, Halberd
CP: Battlefield, SV

Toon Link
Ban: Halberd, FD, PS1
CP: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Smashville


Wolf
Ban: Halberd
CP: Lylat, Frigate
I don't know this mu very well.

GnW
Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Halberd
CP: Final Destination, Smashville


Fox
Ban: Halberd
CP: Delfino Plaza, Lylat

Peach
Ban:
CP: Final Destination, Smashville, SV

Pit
Ban: Delfino, Halberd, FD, RC, Frigate
CP: Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island

Sonic
Ban: YI, FD, Halberd
CP: Lylat, BF, DElfino

 

[Ayce God]

omg, I wanna go off on so many of you. I'll yell at you when I get off

 

[Reizilla]

Smashville sucks, don't ever take anyone there. Take everyone to PS2 except for Snake, DDD, DDD, DDD, Pit, ROB, Wario, ZSS and DK.

Real list a little later.

Scare, you should add PS2 to the list. It's still legal in a lot of places. And I suggest using the little pictures for each stage. All the random sizes gives me a headache, personally.

 

[ScareMl]

alright, i'll add ps2. and sorry about that, first time making a thread. i like the larger pics though. it's more detailed haha

 

[Reizilla]

MK:
Ban: Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Frigate, Delfino
CP: PS2, Castle Siege, BF

Olimar:
Ban: Castle Siege, Halberd
CP: PS2, Battlefield, Frigate, Brinstar

Snake:
Ban: Halberd, Frigate, Yoshi's
CP: Brinstar, Battlefield, Castle Siege

Diddy:
Ban: FD, PS1, Smashville
CP: Battlefield, PS2, Brinstar, Lylat

ICs:
Ban: FD, Smashville
CP: Brinstar, Rainbow

Pikachu:
Ban: Halberd, FD
CP: Brinstar, PS2, Castle Siege

Falco:
Ban: FD
CP: Brinstar, Castle Siege, PS2

ZSS:
Ban: Rainbow, Brinstar, Halberd
CP: Lylat, Castle Siege,

 

[C.J.]

As much as I try to tell myself that it's just a personal issue, I really can't understand the CS hype from other Marth's. I just don't see it. Bar MK (lol), I don't know any character in top/high tier that should be taken to Castle Siege when there are always other options (maybe IC's?? idk)

Nah, it's super neutral and should rarely be a CP tbh. I just like teasing you. It's really good vs Falco and Fox. You know that I think that stage is amazing vs MK (because it is). Other than that, there's not an important character you should CP there. There's Pit if you wanna count him as important.

 

[Player-1]

Diddy ban Lylat and CP FD

 

[Player-3]

ban SV and cp fd

 

[Raziek]

I think your nuts.

You have more Oli experience, so please elaborate, if I'm wrong I'll gladly change my viewpoints, I'm just speaking from my limited experience.