tru0067
Smash Journeyman
Ok, so every chance I get I should charge it
-
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Mario Questions and Answers; Ask here first!
- Thread starter :mad:
- Start date
MarioNPinkie
Smash Apprentice
yea i recommend it because you never know when youll need to use it lol
tru0067
Smash Journeyman
If I am hit upwards and DI in a way that I face the opponent should I cape away so I can bair them when they approach/camp landing?
MarioNPinkie
Smash Apprentice
if im knocked really high in the air i personally would d-air first as im coming down cape then b-air
tru0067
Smash Journeyman
Do you know what I love
Playing Wolf and capeing his recovery
It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling
Playing Wolf and capeing his recovery
It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling
MarioNPinkie
Smash Apprentice
lol i get that feeling when i cape most peoples recoveries
tru0067
Smash Journeyman
But Wolfs is so easy to do
If you ever get depressed just go cape a wolf
If you ever get depressed just go cape a wolf
MarioNPinkie
Smash Apprentice
lmao ill keep that in mind
JuxtaposeX
Smash Lord
i like grounded dair -> ftilt
MarioNPinkie
Smash Apprentice
^ regarding what
DtJ XeroXen
The biggest fraud
That was my exact question. If only grounded dair didn't leave you so vulnerable if shielded, it'd be really good.
MarioNPinkie
Smash Apprentice
i completely agree with you on that lol
JuxtaposeX
Smash Lord
I also don't block
MarioNPinkie
Smash Apprentice
why dont you like to block?
mars16
Smash Lord
What move is best for knocking wario off his bike?.......
SoulPech
Smash Master
Like...if he's doing a wheelie or not? a simple fireball can knock him off.What move is best for knocking wario off his bike?.......
I would think bair would work well
Inferno3044
Smash Master
Why is a wario attacking you on a bike? If he really does that, just shield.What move is best for knocking wario off his bike?.......
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
flud dwhat move is best for knocking wario off his bike?.......
mars16
Smash Lord
Thanks!
Yea I can shield it yea.. but it was the part they just keep riding it back and forth doing wheelies plus playing on castle seige (second area) making it kinda harder for me (my timing is off I guess), but thank!Why is a wario attacking you on a bike? If he really does that, just shield.
Inferno3044
Smash Master
So be somewhere that he cant hit you. CS is a big stage and bike is not an offensive move. And it takes a long time to turn around that driving back and forth isn't even viable. The only reason a wario should use bike is to recover or to get tires.
mars16
Smash Lord
Agreed.
I guess my mind went blank when he started using the bike (rideing mode) to attack..
Next qeustion
I guess my mind went blank when he started using the bike (rideing mode) to attack..
Next qeustion
steep
Smash Lord
Matador!!!
steep
Smash Lord
See my post in the general discussion thread Matador. :D
T25XL
Smash Journeyman
I do not care about this post anymore, ignore this
mars16
Smash Lord
how much % does di minus from knockback?
Example for what I am trying to ask
Say mario is at 90 and fox hits him with an up smash, mario looses a stock because he did not di the attack.
Now, this time mario is at 90 and gets slapped with another upsmash by fox but servives because of di
(Accurate di).
Once again, this time mario is at 100 and gets hit by foxs up smash and even with di he still dies...
Within this passeges it seems di only takes away 10 damage.
My example for my qeustion /I
I'm sure it takes less or more instead of 10
To make this a mario question how much percent does mario's most accuarete di take away?
Srry for the spelling errors and horrid grammer if any
Example for what I am trying to ask
Say mario is at 90 and fox hits him with an up smash, mario looses a stock because he did not di the attack.
Now, this time mario is at 90 and gets slapped with another upsmash by fox but servives because of di
(Accurate di).
Once again, this time mario is at 100 and gets hit by foxs up smash and even with di he still dies...
Within this passeges it seems di only takes away 10 damage.
My example for my qeustion /I
I'm sure it takes less or more instead of 10
To make this a mario question how much percent does mario's most accuarete di take away?
Srry for the spelling errors and horrid grammer if any
Coolwhip
Smash Champion
NVM this post.....
smashmanx7
Smash Journeyman
May anyone help me train and get better with Mario I'm having some difficulties here
Capeflip
Smash Cadet
Does Mario's u-air cause more knockback depending on when it connects? I thought I saw it doing more when it hits while Mario is completely upside-down
According to this frame data thread, U-air has the same knockback throughout, 9/100... unless I'm reading it wrong. I suck at this tech stuff
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/the-hidden-block-marios-hitbox-repository.288507/
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/the-hidden-block-marios-hitbox-repository.288507/
Capeflip
Smash Cadet
Yeah its probably just the trajectory that makes it look like its doing more
Coolwhip
Smash Champion
RPlayer-10
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2013
- Messages
- 3
Hello! I want to keep using Mario, but I want to see his advantages and disadvantages while fighting with Snake and Wolf. Please... 
PackAttack91
Smash Rookie
Bunch of questions from a new player for you guys. Want to thank the community as there was tons of good info here to get me started.
1) What are Mario's best/safest options to get back on the stage while on the ledge and the opponent waiting?
2) What is a good follow up when you cape reverse an incoming aerial or cape to increase landing lag?
3) How do you guys mix up your fire balls?
4) What are good options for when you opponent is recovering from up high and Mario isn't able to use his gimping abilities? Wait for their decent and charge up and Usmash? Jump up and try to hit them with Uair or Bair?
5) What would you recommend I do for practice? Right now I am just making sure I can do the jab combos in my sleep, making sure I can cape to refresh ledge invincibility in my sleep, practicing timing for Fair spike, practicing dashing off stage to grab the ledge, and practicing stutter step Fsmash.
1) What are Mario's best/safest options to get back on the stage while on the ledge and the opponent waiting?
2) What is a good follow up when you cape reverse an incoming aerial or cape to increase landing lag?
3) How do you guys mix up your fire balls?
4) What are good options for when you opponent is recovering from up high and Mario isn't able to use his gimping abilities? Wait for their decent and charge up and Usmash? Jump up and try to hit them with Uair or Bair?
5) What would you recommend I do for practice? Right now I am just making sure I can do the jab combos in my sleep, making sure I can cape to refresh ledge invincibility in my sleep, practicing timing for Fair spike, practicing dashing off stage to grab the ledge, and practicing stutter step Fsmash.
steep
Smash Lord
I'm writing a freaking book for his ledge options… I hope you're ready for this. And then I'll answer all your other questions. Let's a-go.
Okay here it is… You better appreciate me… I set a game to infinite timer and just tested all of these different options and thought up some new ones that I've never really used before actually. Hope this gives you all the ledge options you'll ever need. I'll answer your other questions later when I'm not so tired… haha
Here is a list of your options to get up off the ledge, and I'll kind of give a synopsis of when you should and shouldn't use them. And kinda rate them too. The first options are just inputs that you can use directly from the ledge. Note - the symbol -> means that the input leads into the next input, and the symbol + means that the moves happen simultaneously or nearly so. Let me know if you have any questions on this...
Stand up from ledge (under 100%)
- Use this when you just want to get up quickly from the ledge without using your second jump or when your opponent is spaced too far away from the ledge to punish you effectively. This is also useful in that it doesn't put you into the air, and by being on the ground you have access to all of your grounded move set options, and more options is good. Something very few people utilize in this option (and I think it’s an amazing option that we should all utilize more!) is the fact that you can buffer during the stand up animation. For example, if you stand up and then down smash, and then try it again while repeatedly hitting down on the c stick during the get up animation, you will see a clear difference in how fast it comes out. This is really useful with Mario’s jabs, tilts, and smashes. Try it out sometime!
- Don't use this when your opponent is right next to the ledge or when they are spaced within attacking distance of the edge of the stage.
steep's rating: 7/10
Get-up attack (under 100%)
- You can use this when your opponent has overcommitted to trying to hit you off the ledge from on stage and they are really close to you. You can also use this if your opponent is trying to come back on the stage and goes just over the ledge and onto the stage.
- Don't use this if your opponent is just out of range of being hit or when they aren't committing to anything because they will probably punish you, either by spacing and then hitting you or by shielding and punishing you. Using this option also will take slightly longer than some of your options for you to get back to a neutral standing position, and overall you are better off when you have all of your options available (aka neutral standing position). Also, this move has a LOT of ending lag (I wouldn’t be surprised if some heavier characters could DI the hit and then punish us for it) so I really wouldn’t recommend it too much.
steep's rating: 4/10
Get-up jump from ledge (under 100%)
- This option is pretty good in that you can buffer aerials out of it at pretty high speeds and it allows you to get up and over the stage quickly. The best attribute of this movement, however, is the fact that it doesn’t use up your second jump. Mario can get about 2/3 of the way across FD before needing to touch the ground (without up b) because he has the ledge jump and his double jump. This is a lot of ground covered! If you manage to footstool an opponent on the way over, you can easily make it from one ledge to the other without touching the ground! Also if you get knocked out of the ledge jump, you aren’t in the situation of being off stage without a second jump. It can keep you from getting gimped.
- The cons of using this option are that you are easily knocked out of it fairly quickly after you initiate the action. Also even with buffering it takes a little bit of time before you can use an action. Don’t use this if your opponent is jumping or could easily jump and get to a position where they could punish you right over the ledge. I generally wouldn’t use this if your opponent is far away unless you are trying to get to a platform on BF or FD, or if you are trying to get over projectiles they are firing at you.
steep’s rating: 5/10
Roll from Ledge (under 100%)
- This is an interesting option in certain situations when you want to get behind your opponent or passed an item (banana, gyro, snake’s down smash mine for example). It can also be useful in teams for wanting to get up off the ledge quickly while allowing your teammate to grab the ledge. The roll moves about the distance of a normal roll as if you were standing on air over the ledge (the roll will place you between the two “Vs” on FD, with Mario’s front foot being centered on the tip of the more inward V).
- The invincibility lasts through 1.5 somersaults (Mario does 2, with the second one leading into him standing up), so you are vulnerable at the end of the animation, and there is a little bit of lag before you can do any other option. Make sure you have time to commit to this move before you initiate it.
steep’s rating: 4/10
Stand up from Ledge (100% or greater)
- This move can be used to avoid certain ledge guarding options because of its invincibility during most of Mario’s standing up animation (you can tell when the invincibility wears off by watching for when Mario stops blinking). You can also buffer moves like jabs, tilts, and smashes at the end of the animation. However, there is a small window of time where Mario is unable to perform actions AND he is not invincible, so you are at risk of punishment at that time.
- Don’t use this option when your opponent is just standing within attack range from the ledge. It gives them a lot of time to react because the animation is so slow. I personally never use this option except as a mixup option when my opponent is pressuring me unsafely on the ledge with laggy moves like smashes, and even then there are tons of better options. It’s just not very safe.
steep’s rating: 1/10
Get-up attack (100% or greater)
- This is actually a very useful option in certain situations. I use it to punish laggy attacks from people on stage, but more importantly it is a good tool for knocking an opponent who has just up-b’d to the stage back off stage. The knockback trajectory on this move is interesting in that it will hit an opponent behind you if they are coming from behind you in the air. This is great for setting up gimps. The invincibility on this move actually lasts until the kick ends so it is fairly safe as long as it connects. This option is actually very useful for gimping other Mario’s. Get-up attack to knock them back out after they up b, and then grab the ledge really fast or cape them. This can be really effective, and not just against Mario!
- If the move doesn’t connect, however, it is easily punished. After Mario does the kick it takes a REALLY long time for the move to end and for you to be able to do any action afterwards. This makes it risky to do if your opponent has time to shield or if you miss the attack completely. It’s a very situational option.
steep’s rating: 4/10
Get-up jump from ledge (100% or greater)
- Use this when you need to get up over your opponent but are worried that they may knock you back out off stage. That’s honestly how I approach this move, because you will still have your second jump if you do get knocked back out. Same deal where you can kind of buffer attacks out of this move (Uair is really fast when buffered) so yeah there’s that. However…
- This option isn’t very good because your invincibility wears off the instant Mario’s hands leave the stage from pushing off to jump. This means that you are vulnerable from the time you leave the ledge until about the height of a full jump when you can buffer an attack. That’s a lot of time for your opponent to punish you. Very risky!
steep’s rating: 2/10
Roll from the ledge (100% or greater)
- Mario’s roll off the ledge at 100% or more is only really useful for two things in my opinion: as a mixup, and, in a MUCH more applicable way, as a way to ledge guard. At times you will find your opponent trying to knock you off the ledge with a recovery move that has a hit box. At these moments, there are two possible outcomes: one, they knock you away and grab the ledge, or two, you manage to keep the ledge and they most likely die. This move can make a difference in some games. By initiating the roll animation, which takes a really long time to get off the ledge, you are invincible and also still technically holding the ledge. If you do this just right you can sometimes gimp an opponent.
- While this can be utilized as mentioned above, as a move it really is not very good. Your invincibility once on the stage doesn’t last very long, and any smash that covers much distance at all will connect if they react, which they have tons of time to do. Just don’t use this option unless you are feeling ballsy or are in that situation where you can get the ledge guard with it.
steep’s rating: 4/10
Now that I’ve discussed the basic options, you may be noticing that none of these options are really all that highly rated, especially once you are over 100%. So you may be wondering what to use as a better option. Well luckily Mario has an amazing tool: the cape! Yes, his side b is a wonderful thing for getting up off the ledge, or just stalling on the ledge before picking another option that was mentioned above. Before we get into all the wondrous things we can do with the cape, there is one thing you must know that all other ledge options stem from. This is the ledge drop. You can either press away from the ledge or down from the ledge and Mario will literally just let go of the ledge. By combining this with other options, we can mix up our return to stage options quite a lot. These are more advanced options for returning to the stage, and should help you a ton!
Ledge drop -> Second jump
- You can use this to get back to the stage without having to pick one of the options above. There are MANY variations to this option. Keep in mind that ONCE YOU USE YOUR SECOND JUMP YOU DON’T GET IT BACK UNLESS YOU LAND ON STAGE. Be very careful when using these options, as you are basically doomed if they knock you off with anything of decent knockback and then grab the ledge, although DI’ing up will help with that. Some of the variations on this option worth mentioning are:
Ledge drop (away or down) -> second jump -> wall jump -> grab ledge – This is an interesting way to stall but I wouldn’t use it much, as you aren’t throwing out an attack. To make this more viable I would add in a bair after the wall jump (after ledge drop down) or b-reverse fireball onto the stage instead of grabbing the ledge (after ledge drop away). Those two are fairly good options. The major problem with wall jumping is that it’s slow and can be read and punished.
Ledge drop (away or down) -> second jump + up air -> land on stage / regrab ledge – dropping away and then second jump + up airing puts you further on stage than dropping down and then second jump + up air, but is less safe. It depends where your opponent is on the stage honestly. I will say that dropping down and then jumping + up air so that you just barely go over the ledge is nice because it can cancel on the ground and you can go into jabs or tilts or anything really.
Ledge drop (down) -> second jump + down air -> land on stage -> jab - should end the dair so that you laglessly land and jab*
Ledge drop (away or down) -> second jump -> fireball -> land on stage / regrab ledge - away will have a slightly farther reach but a higher angle and therefore higher bounce to it and down will have a shorter reach with smaller bounces. Depends on the situation which one you should use
Ledge drop (away) + fireball -> second jump -> regrab ledge – This is a good way of putting pressure on an opponent who is trying to recover low against you (Toon Link, Samus, Lucas, Luigi, Wario, DDD, MK come to mind) because when you ledge drop away and then fireball it will read the input as a b-reverse fireball and will shoot a fireball down and away from the stage.
Ledge drop (away) + b-reverse fireball towards stage -> second jump -> regrab ledge – This is an interesting option. It is useful for putting pressure on enemies who are trying to recover from underneath the stage (spacies, etc) because by b-reversing the fireball back towards the stage you can bounce it off of the slanted part of the stage (on stages like smashville, battlefield, and FD). On Yoshi’s this technique can be used to bounce the fireball off the wall and send it down at a steeper angle than the option mentioned before this one.
*This is an option I don’t really see many of us using effectively, and it has some serious potential imo
You can also simply ledge drop (away or down) and second jump and just land on the stage or regrab the ledge. You can do many mixups. Feel free to make up your own!
steep’s rating: 8/10
Ledge drop -> Up B
- There are a couple of different ways to use this option. It can be a great tool for getting back to the ledge safely or getting a surprise attack on your enemy. I utilize it a lot myself. If done safely, it can really help you get back to the stage. If you are unsafe with it, you can either get punished hard with a smash or something, or your opponent can grab the ledge before you up b and you can die to ledge hogging. Also know that you inflict yourself with RCO lag whenever you sweetspot the ledge with up b or land on the stage after free falling from up b. This can lead to you setting yourself up for some nasty situations where you will get punished hard and sometimes lose a stock later on. Overall this is a fairly good option when done safely so it’s worth practicing.
Ledge drop (away) -> up b to ledge – Very basic option, and not really one I use much. I would much rather use…
Ledge drop (away) + up air -> up b to ledge – Now this is a great option when your opponent is close to the edge of the stage. The uair hits your opponent and is invincible because of the couple frames of invincibility you get when you release the ledge.
Ledge drop (away) + up b – This is a useful option for hitting your opponent when they are near the ledge and you want to do something really fast to catch them off guard. Just press away from the ledge and immediately press up b so that you send yourself up and onto the stage. When done correctly you should be able to go from the ledge to the side platform on BF. Just don’t get shielded or you will land helplessly with RCO lag and most likely get punished.
A note – Make sure you don’t try to drop down and then up b. On certain stages this can get you gimped… *cough* PS1 or FD *cough*
steep’s rating: 8/10
Ledge drop -> Cape
This is the last category that I am going to talk about, and it is a very good one. Here are some of the ways you can use cape while recovering:
Ledge drop (away) + cape -> regrab ledge – This is good for refreshing invincibility on the ledge. Use it! It’s also good for stalling. You can either cape away from the ledge or towards it. Or you can double b-reverse cape if you want to get fancy for giggles.
Ledge drop (away) -> cape -> second jump -> aerial -> land on stage / regrab ledge – This is a good way of getting back somewhat safely or for applying a little pressure on someone who is trying to keep you offstage. You have to wait long enough to use the cape that you won’t regrab the ledge instantly like the previously mentioned option. Bair is a good choice for an aerial if you cape away, and dair or uair are good if you cape towards the stage.
Ledge drop (down) -> cape -> second jump -> cape -> regrab ledge – This is mostly a mixup and good stalling tactic. Could be interesting for confusing opponents onstage or setting yourself up for a good gimping position against an opponent who is offstage though.
Ledge drop (away) -> cape -> up b to ledge – Another stalling option, not as good as ledge drop away + up air -> up b imo.
Ledge drop (away/down) -> cape -> second jump -> fireball – Another way of getting back on stage or just heckling your opponent and regrabbing the ledge. If you are feeling really technical you can double b-reverse the fireball and give yourself a little more momentum while getting on stage.
Ledge drop (away) -> cape -> second jump -> b-reverse fireball – Use this for the lawls when guarding against an opponent offstage.
steep’s rating: (9/10)
Notice I didn't rate anything as 10/10. That is because there is never an all around PERFECT option for every situation. It's all about learning to read the situation. It's a judgement call every time! Good luck!
Okay here it is… You better appreciate me… I set a game to infinite timer and just tested all of these different options and thought up some new ones that I've never really used before actually. Hope this gives you all the ledge options you'll ever need. I'll answer your other questions later when I'm not so tired… haha
Here is a list of your options to get up off the ledge, and I'll kind of give a synopsis of when you should and shouldn't use them. And kinda rate them too. The first options are just inputs that you can use directly from the ledge. Note - the symbol -> means that the input leads into the next input, and the symbol + means that the moves happen simultaneously or nearly so. Let me know if you have any questions on this...
Stand up from ledge (under 100%)
- Use this when you just want to get up quickly from the ledge without using your second jump or when your opponent is spaced too far away from the ledge to punish you effectively. This is also useful in that it doesn't put you into the air, and by being on the ground you have access to all of your grounded move set options, and more options is good. Something very few people utilize in this option (and I think it’s an amazing option that we should all utilize more!) is the fact that you can buffer during the stand up animation. For example, if you stand up and then down smash, and then try it again while repeatedly hitting down on the c stick during the get up animation, you will see a clear difference in how fast it comes out. This is really useful with Mario’s jabs, tilts, and smashes. Try it out sometime!
- Don't use this when your opponent is right next to the ledge or when they are spaced within attacking distance of the edge of the stage.
steep's rating: 7/10
Get-up attack (under 100%)
- You can use this when your opponent has overcommitted to trying to hit you off the ledge from on stage and they are really close to you. You can also use this if your opponent is trying to come back on the stage and goes just over the ledge and onto the stage.
- Don't use this if your opponent is just out of range of being hit or when they aren't committing to anything because they will probably punish you, either by spacing and then hitting you or by shielding and punishing you. Using this option also will take slightly longer than some of your options for you to get back to a neutral standing position, and overall you are better off when you have all of your options available (aka neutral standing position). Also, this move has a LOT of ending lag (I wouldn’t be surprised if some heavier characters could DI the hit and then punish us for it) so I really wouldn’t recommend it too much.
steep's rating: 4/10
Get-up jump from ledge (under 100%)
- This option is pretty good in that you can buffer aerials out of it at pretty high speeds and it allows you to get up and over the stage quickly. The best attribute of this movement, however, is the fact that it doesn’t use up your second jump. Mario can get about 2/3 of the way across FD before needing to touch the ground (without up b) because he has the ledge jump and his double jump. This is a lot of ground covered! If you manage to footstool an opponent on the way over, you can easily make it from one ledge to the other without touching the ground! Also if you get knocked out of the ledge jump, you aren’t in the situation of being off stage without a second jump. It can keep you from getting gimped.
- The cons of using this option are that you are easily knocked out of it fairly quickly after you initiate the action. Also even with buffering it takes a little bit of time before you can use an action. Don’t use this if your opponent is jumping or could easily jump and get to a position where they could punish you right over the ledge. I generally wouldn’t use this if your opponent is far away unless you are trying to get to a platform on BF or FD, or if you are trying to get over projectiles they are firing at you.
steep’s rating: 5/10
Roll from Ledge (under 100%)
- This is an interesting option in certain situations when you want to get behind your opponent or passed an item (banana, gyro, snake’s down smash mine for example). It can also be useful in teams for wanting to get up off the ledge quickly while allowing your teammate to grab the ledge. The roll moves about the distance of a normal roll as if you were standing on air over the ledge (the roll will place you between the two “Vs” on FD, with Mario’s front foot being centered on the tip of the more inward V).
- The invincibility lasts through 1.5 somersaults (Mario does 2, with the second one leading into him standing up), so you are vulnerable at the end of the animation, and there is a little bit of lag before you can do any other option. Make sure you have time to commit to this move before you initiate it.
steep’s rating: 4/10
Stand up from Ledge (100% or greater)
- This move can be used to avoid certain ledge guarding options because of its invincibility during most of Mario’s standing up animation (you can tell when the invincibility wears off by watching for when Mario stops blinking). You can also buffer moves like jabs, tilts, and smashes at the end of the animation. However, there is a small window of time where Mario is unable to perform actions AND he is not invincible, so you are at risk of punishment at that time.
- Don’t use this option when your opponent is just standing within attack range from the ledge. It gives them a lot of time to react because the animation is so slow. I personally never use this option except as a mixup option when my opponent is pressuring me unsafely on the ledge with laggy moves like smashes, and even then there are tons of better options. It’s just not very safe.
steep’s rating: 1/10
Get-up attack (100% or greater)
- This is actually a very useful option in certain situations. I use it to punish laggy attacks from people on stage, but more importantly it is a good tool for knocking an opponent who has just up-b’d to the stage back off stage. The knockback trajectory on this move is interesting in that it will hit an opponent behind you if they are coming from behind you in the air. This is great for setting up gimps. The invincibility on this move actually lasts until the kick ends so it is fairly safe as long as it connects. This option is actually very useful for gimping other Mario’s. Get-up attack to knock them back out after they up b, and then grab the ledge really fast or cape them. This can be really effective, and not just against Mario!
- If the move doesn’t connect, however, it is easily punished. After Mario does the kick it takes a REALLY long time for the move to end and for you to be able to do any action afterwards. This makes it risky to do if your opponent has time to shield or if you miss the attack completely. It’s a very situational option.
steep’s rating: 4/10
Get-up jump from ledge (100% or greater)
- Use this when you need to get up over your opponent but are worried that they may knock you back out off stage. That’s honestly how I approach this move, because you will still have your second jump if you do get knocked back out. Same deal where you can kind of buffer attacks out of this move (Uair is really fast when buffered) so yeah there’s that. However…
- This option isn’t very good because your invincibility wears off the instant Mario’s hands leave the stage from pushing off to jump. This means that you are vulnerable from the time you leave the ledge until about the height of a full jump when you can buffer an attack. That’s a lot of time for your opponent to punish you. Very risky!
steep’s rating: 2/10
Roll from the ledge (100% or greater)
- Mario’s roll off the ledge at 100% or more is only really useful for two things in my opinion: as a mixup, and, in a MUCH more applicable way, as a way to ledge guard. At times you will find your opponent trying to knock you off the ledge with a recovery move that has a hit box. At these moments, there are two possible outcomes: one, they knock you away and grab the ledge, or two, you manage to keep the ledge and they most likely die. This move can make a difference in some games. By initiating the roll animation, which takes a really long time to get off the ledge, you are invincible and also still technically holding the ledge. If you do this just right you can sometimes gimp an opponent.
- While this can be utilized as mentioned above, as a move it really is not very good. Your invincibility once on the stage doesn’t last very long, and any smash that covers much distance at all will connect if they react, which they have tons of time to do. Just don’t use this option unless you are feeling ballsy or are in that situation where you can get the ledge guard with it.
steep’s rating: 4/10
Now that I’ve discussed the basic options, you may be noticing that none of these options are really all that highly rated, especially once you are over 100%. So you may be wondering what to use as a better option. Well luckily Mario has an amazing tool: the cape! Yes, his side b is a wonderful thing for getting up off the ledge, or just stalling on the ledge before picking another option that was mentioned above. Before we get into all the wondrous things we can do with the cape, there is one thing you must know that all other ledge options stem from. This is the ledge drop. You can either press away from the ledge or down from the ledge and Mario will literally just let go of the ledge. By combining this with other options, we can mix up our return to stage options quite a lot. These are more advanced options for returning to the stage, and should help you a ton!
Ledge drop -> Second jump
- You can use this to get back to the stage without having to pick one of the options above. There are MANY variations to this option. Keep in mind that ONCE YOU USE YOUR SECOND JUMP YOU DON’T GET IT BACK UNLESS YOU LAND ON STAGE. Be very careful when using these options, as you are basically doomed if they knock you off with anything of decent knockback and then grab the ledge, although DI’ing up will help with that. Some of the variations on this option worth mentioning are:
Ledge drop (away or down) -> second jump -> wall jump -> grab ledge – This is an interesting way to stall but I wouldn’t use it much, as you aren’t throwing out an attack. To make this more viable I would add in a bair after the wall jump (after ledge drop down) or b-reverse fireball onto the stage instead of grabbing the ledge (after ledge drop away). Those two are fairly good options. The major problem with wall jumping is that it’s slow and can be read and punished.
Ledge drop (away or down) -> second jump + up air -> land on stage / regrab ledge – dropping away and then second jump + up airing puts you further on stage than dropping down and then second jump + up air, but is less safe. It depends where your opponent is on the stage honestly. I will say that dropping down and then jumping + up air so that you just barely go over the ledge is nice because it can cancel on the ground and you can go into jabs or tilts or anything really.
Ledge drop (down) -> second jump + down air -> land on stage -> jab - should end the dair so that you laglessly land and jab*
Ledge drop (away or down) -> second jump -> fireball -> land on stage / regrab ledge - away will have a slightly farther reach but a higher angle and therefore higher bounce to it and down will have a shorter reach with smaller bounces. Depends on the situation which one you should use
Ledge drop (away) + fireball -> second jump -> regrab ledge – This is a good way of putting pressure on an opponent who is trying to recover low against you (Toon Link, Samus, Lucas, Luigi, Wario, DDD, MK come to mind) because when you ledge drop away and then fireball it will read the input as a b-reverse fireball and will shoot a fireball down and away from the stage.
Ledge drop (away) + b-reverse fireball towards stage -> second jump -> regrab ledge – This is an interesting option. It is useful for putting pressure on enemies who are trying to recover from underneath the stage (spacies, etc) because by b-reversing the fireball back towards the stage you can bounce it off of the slanted part of the stage (on stages like smashville, battlefield, and FD). On Yoshi’s this technique can be used to bounce the fireball off the wall and send it down at a steeper angle than the option mentioned before this one.
*This is an option I don’t really see many of us using effectively, and it has some serious potential imo
You can also simply ledge drop (away or down) and second jump and just land on the stage or regrab the ledge. You can do many mixups. Feel free to make up your own!
steep’s rating: 8/10
Ledge drop -> Up B
- There are a couple of different ways to use this option. It can be a great tool for getting back to the ledge safely or getting a surprise attack on your enemy. I utilize it a lot myself. If done safely, it can really help you get back to the stage. If you are unsafe with it, you can either get punished hard with a smash or something, or your opponent can grab the ledge before you up b and you can die to ledge hogging. Also know that you inflict yourself with RCO lag whenever you sweetspot the ledge with up b or land on the stage after free falling from up b. This can lead to you setting yourself up for some nasty situations where you will get punished hard and sometimes lose a stock later on. Overall this is a fairly good option when done safely so it’s worth practicing.
Ledge drop (away) -> up b to ledge – Very basic option, and not really one I use much. I would much rather use…
Ledge drop (away) + up air -> up b to ledge – Now this is a great option when your opponent is close to the edge of the stage. The uair hits your opponent and is invincible because of the couple frames of invincibility you get when you release the ledge.
Ledge drop (away) + up b – This is a useful option for hitting your opponent when they are near the ledge and you want to do something really fast to catch them off guard. Just press away from the ledge and immediately press up b so that you send yourself up and onto the stage. When done correctly you should be able to go from the ledge to the side platform on BF. Just don’t get shielded or you will land helplessly with RCO lag and most likely get punished.
A note – Make sure you don’t try to drop down and then up b. On certain stages this can get you gimped… *cough* PS1 or FD *cough*
steep’s rating: 8/10
Ledge drop -> Cape
This is the last category that I am going to talk about, and it is a very good one. Here are some of the ways you can use cape while recovering:
Ledge drop (away) + cape -> regrab ledge – This is good for refreshing invincibility on the ledge. Use it! It’s also good for stalling. You can either cape away from the ledge or towards it. Or you can double b-reverse cape if you want to get fancy for giggles.
Ledge drop (away) -> cape -> second jump -> aerial -> land on stage / regrab ledge – This is a good way of getting back somewhat safely or for applying a little pressure on someone who is trying to keep you offstage. You have to wait long enough to use the cape that you won’t regrab the ledge instantly like the previously mentioned option. Bair is a good choice for an aerial if you cape away, and dair or uair are good if you cape towards the stage.
Ledge drop (down) -> cape -> second jump -> cape -> regrab ledge – This is mostly a mixup and good stalling tactic. Could be interesting for confusing opponents onstage or setting yourself up for a good gimping position against an opponent who is offstage though.
Ledge drop (away) -> cape -> up b to ledge – Another stalling option, not as good as ledge drop away + up air -> up b imo.
Ledge drop (away/down) -> cape -> second jump -> fireball – Another way of getting back on stage or just heckling your opponent and regrabbing the ledge. If you are feeling really technical you can double b-reverse the fireball and give yourself a little more momentum while getting on stage.
Ledge drop (away) -> cape -> second jump -> b-reverse fireball – Use this for the lawls when guarding against an opponent offstage.
steep’s rating: (9/10)
Notice I didn't rate anything as 10/10. That is because there is never an all around PERFECT option for every situation. It's all about learning to read the situation. It's a judgement call every time! Good luck!
Coolwhip
Smash Champion
Damn, steep. How long did it took you for that huge write-up?
steep
Smash Lord
Uhhh too long. Especially while testing out each one to make sure my info was accurate. Hope it's worth the time! Do you like it?