Mario Mafia/Newbie 10! Game Over! Scum Wins!

[vanderzant]

@Ran: The difference between MK/J and Uber was that Uber was posting in the thread, while MK/J were not. I chose to pressure Uber not because he is a newbie, but because while he seemed to have no activity excuses, all he had posted was:

Yeah, I've been quiet, observing to see what exactly I need to or should post, as this is very new to me.

What exactly did I do to deserve that? lol

And Vanderzant seems pretty suspicious, I'm going to:

Vote: No Lynch

But, I'm going to keep an eye on him. The way he types seems . . . . different.

Well, I like this a lot more than I thought I would, and the only person so far that seems suspicious I already spoke about, though Tery's posts on page 10 seem pretty strange too . . . ..

So imo he really did warrant a wake up call wagon to get him posting. Where as with J/MK, they wouldn't of responded at all (as they are/were absent)

You are forgetting what you had posted before that:

You had clear intentions of trying to get me lynched simply upon assumption, even though there was little basis.

Yes if you had continued to coast without posting for the entire Day, I would of happily lynched you. Is lack of content a valid reason for a Day 1 lynch? You betcha!

Quite commonly in a mafia game on Day 1, if little scum tells are found or most cases lack evidence to fully support a lynch, then what's called a 'policy lynch' is often implemented. This usually entails lynching the most inactive player or lynching the player who is contributing the least. While these two criteria may not neccesarily indicate mafiosi alignment, it is important that Town remove players who are going to hinder scum hunting for town.

For example, if the deadline was in 20 seconds and we quickly lynched Meta-Kirby, and he flipped town, and then I was killed during the night and flipped town, (despite what your initial impression may be) this isn't necessarily a bad situation for town.

True, we may not have lynched scum, but we are leaps and bounds closer to finding them. Not only do we have the lynch info to work with, we also have removed a player who had posted no content, and who had just as good of a chance of flipping scum as town.

@Glyph: You should have questions to ask or things to say to people besides your #1 scum suspect though.

Ofc, everyone thinks differently, so as a townie you need to build connections with as many players as you can (i.e. asking questions, engaging in an argument) in order to better grasp their alignment. Just as there are 'scum tells', there are also 'town tells.'

@Ranmaru: I encourage you to use your vote more if you can. It is your best tool for scum hunting and applying the pressure to your suspects. A "vote now, explain later" approach has it's merits for town, I use it frequently.

Acting rashly is not scummy, in the same way that being mean is not scummy, or telling lots of jokes is not scummy. This is what I believe Acrostic was talking about earlier on (when he addressed you and Seph). Your style seems to be fairly passive so far, and while it isn't a bad thing, you can always work on it.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Much like yesterday, I will be fairly vacant for the rest of this day as well. I am wrapping up a very busy week:

Monday: Biochemistry Exam
Tuesday: Methods in Recombinant DNA Technology Presentation
Wednesday: Gene Patenting Regarding BRCA1/BRCA2 Mutations & Myriad
Thursday: Nucleotide Sequence Analysis Paper
Friday: Molecular Biology of Cancer

This does not account for next week which will also be packed due to finals. I will have some time on Saturday / Sunday to give this thread another run through (due to my notorious nature of procrastination). Due to my short absence I will remove my vote for now as I do not want it to have any unfortunate consequences in the near future.

Unvote SephirothMasamune

I apologize for my absence.

 

[X1-12]

D1 Votecount!


Terywj (1) Glyph
UberMario (3) Ranmaru, Vanderzant, Seph
No Lynch (1) UberMario

Not voting (4) Meta-Kirby, Terywj, Grump, Acrostic

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Lynch!

Deadline is 17th Dec

 

[UberMario]

Uber, why are you voting for a No Lynch? Or did you make the same mistake as I did and just think it's the same as not voting?

Now, I won't remove my vote so quickly, until I see you vote on someone. (make a reasonable guess)

We need your input.

Probably the latter, however, I'm going to go ahead and switch my vote to:

Unvote

Vote: Terywj

I'd like to see more from him, as he really hasn't defended himself well.

 

[M.K]

Apologies around for my V/LA status and the time taken to catch up in this game. Bit of computer troubles, but I’m back. I’m going to be doing a PbPa.
PbPa – Post by Post Analysis – When expected to critique a large number of posts or pages, or the interactions between two or more members throughout the game, one can create a PbPa as a way of organizing thoughts and presenting a clear case. PbPa may also be detrimental to your case. For example, if you are at L-1, and are expected to make against Player “X”, then a shoddily done PbPa with no real value will not fly well with others. Only to be done when you can provide some major clues/leads.
#XXX = Indicates the post number, which can be found in the upper right hand corner of every post.
Let’s begin:

#79 – Game Start.

#80 – Ranmaru – Why wait for others to start and see what they think? Not having an outright opinion does not make you town. In fact, scum has no need to form opinions in the first place, because they have facts.

#82 – Ranmaru – This is probably just a newbie thing (and I’m sure as I read farther into it, it’ll be explained and what not) but you don’t really have to question RVS votes in that sort of manner. It’s fine that you feel suspicious, but RVS is generally random and crazy.

#83 – Grump – Explained what I basically said. Nicely done.

#90 – Vanderzant – Stroking his e-**** because he’s an IC. LOLOLOL Lynch plz. Just kidding. This is called a joke. Humor has its place in Mafia

#92 – Tery – No need to make a stand on opening day?! WHAAAAAAT. Eww, that’s like -5 already.

#93 – Vanderzant – The appropriate reaction to the above.

#97 – Grump – I’m….liking Grump. This post not only places a vote, but gives explanation. Good attempt to transition out of RVS.

#99 – Tery – Huge AtE. AtE – Appeal to Emotion. Using these tactics, one can emotionally persuade you from voting them off, even though they really hold no water by themselves. Do not ever use this as a way to wriggle out of an argument. AtE statements are like “Well I guess I’m going to die, and you’ll be sad when you see a townie die” or “You’re being so mean! I’m trying so hard and you’re not letting me!”

#102 – Tery – Do not give fake excuses any more. You’re proficient in English, that’s not an excuse for what you said. Saying “there is no evidence that proves I’m mafia” is like me walking into a zoo, looking straight down at the ground, and screaming “I can’t see any animals!!”

#104 – Tery – Activity police is GOOD, but not GREAT.

#105 – Ranmaru – Um, what is this? I don’t think that was a good move to vote Vand for “being ready to vote someone”. That’s not a reason, that’s …a response to the actions presented before him. That’s typically what you do in a Mafia game, which is voting and unvoting to apply and relieve pressure.

#107#109 – Tery and Ranmaru – This almost seems like a staged discussion. Tery too willingly accepts Ran’s argument about his vote on Vand, and Tery once again becomes the activity police.

#110 – Sephiroth’s Masamune – HEY BUDDY :D But good explanation of events.

#111 – Tery – Baseless defenses are baseless

#114 – Ranmaru – Defending Tery? Buddying Tery, and criticizing Seph’s vote as “just a vote on whoever was there to take it”, which I read as, “jumping on a wagon”.

#118 – Vanderzant – I think you are putting too much credit into the private communication bit, which I read as “town’s ability to communicate privately”, not a “general ability to communicate privately”. The first point holds no water if he’s scum.

#120 – Tery – AtE….bad bad bad bad.

#122- Ranmaru – These posts strike me as odd for a variety of reasons. Wasn’t Ran the first person in the game to say “I’ll see what others think before placing a vote”. This indicates a couple things. A) he’s being coached B) he’s indecisive and requires some type of lead or c) he’s not comfortable making stances yet. HOWEVER, he’s also the quickest individual to defend Tery, a wagon on this. A newbie mistake is to think that you always have to protect your scum partner. It’s not a true statement. If you’ve got a scum partner that really ****s up all the time, go ahead and get rid of them if you see the time is right. Not only does it add points to YOUR credibility (if you’re on a scum lynch), but it removes a liability from the game.

#124->#125 – Tery - Stop. Vanderzant challenged you to adopt a different mindset, try a different technique, and you blew him off and continued with the WIFOM, then your activity police. Town has no reason to be the activity police when scummy players are sitting in front of you. Scum does, because it gives more targets for them to pin bad play on, or in this case, bad activity.

#126 – Vanderzant – Good.

#127#138 – More of the same. More of Vanderzant telling everyone the correct way of going about an argument, and more of two players (Ran and Tery) trying to avoid doing so. There are not a whole lot of things that are uniform in each game of Mafia; however, the way or arguing, whether a scum player or a town player, needs to stick to facts and facts only. The counterargument of “But this is Day 1! We have no facts” its blatently wrong, because I’ve already got a 2 – page word document of **** that I’ve been typing out lmao. In any case, there are ALSO very few things in Mafia that one could consider “not a risk”. Risks are common, and if you spend all your time waiting for proof or the lynch candidate to be like “you’re right guys, I’ve really ****ed up. I’m mafia, shoot me”, then you are wasting your time, because it will never happen.

#139 – Ranmaru – RVS has been LONG over. LONG over, this vote is bad.

#140 – Grump – Grump is cool, I like this post a lot. However, I don’t like the fake pressure. This may be a personal preference, but I’m not a fan of the FoS when there is a lot of evidence to back up your point. But I see your precaution, and it’s noted.
------------------------------------
Gonna stop here for a second and continue in a little bit. Here is a tier list of the players of the above posts and my color coordination on them:
Terywj
Ranmaru
Sephiroth's Masamune
Acrostic

Vanderzant
Grump

Playing scummy
Null read - either not enough or no opinion of their play so far. Although in this case, the yellows are way closer to town.
Good play from Grump. Vanderzant also has good play, but idk, my buddy just informed me that your scum play is starting to look more like your town play. You town, bruh?!

 

[Terywj [태리]]

No evaluations on UberMario or Glyph? Interesting.

Blame me for not taking a stand on opening day. That's like blaming me for not doing anything useful because it's totally not my first time playing this.
Well. Sorry if I seem as very undetermined, but that's what this game is for - to adapt myself to this style of play. It's been very intruiging intriguing intriging something however that is spelled. I have some assumptions but they're quite vague. Since everyone seems to point at me I don't see any real reason as to when they should be posted. I'll make a double post though. The more I post the more I am suspected. I am sorry to have let you down, town.

I am tempted to just vote myself and save the time to move on.

Spoiler

I hope I never ever get an actual Mafia role in any DGames Mafia, since I appear to take the guise of one very well.

 

[M.K]

Tery, you're clearly skimming. That ended on post 140, and I said I would continue later. I made an analysis of only the players up to 140.
And this is GIGANTIC AtE. When people tell you to stop doing that because it isn't helping your case, that's probably something you should do.

If you really want to help town, then defend yourself properly and with facts, not this riduculous "woe is me, I'm such a newbie" attitude.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

At least it's evident for me, aha. I'm merely stating that I'm finally giving up. It's not attention of emotion or something or whatever when I'm actually giving up, haha. I don't see how any sort of "evidence" I provide will save my *** but anyway here we go.

Ranmaru has the "Teryble" quality in his posts, much like mine. I am not sure if I suspect him at this point, but he references that he is doing the same as I am - waiting before making evaluations. He's also asking for more input. If what I'm doing is making me appear Mafioso, then I could suspect he is Mafioso as well.
Sephiroths Masarume started the bandwagoning, but what real motives did he have? Why wouldn't he just start accusing J or Vanderzant when they're the experienced players? Was there a specific reason why he selected me as the primary bandwagon target? I talk to Sephiroths a lot so I'd assume he would want to get me out of the way, but whatever reasons he wanted to do so I am completely unclear about.
Of course, I don't suspect him at all. UberMario is using the same "excuse" you accused me for, but even through skimming no indication is used on someone like Glyph for his accusations on me, etc.

I don't quite understand what being activity police is.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I didn't quite get to finish (Internet is dying out because stupid shenanigans around town) but whatever.

 

[Grump]

No evaluations on UberMario or Glyph? Interesting.

Blame me for not taking a stand on opening day. That's like blaming me for not doing anything useful because it's totally not my first time playing this.
Well. Sorry if I seem as very undetermined, but that's what this game is for - to adapt myself to this style of play. It's been very intruiging intriguing intriging something however that is spelled. I have some assumptions but they're quite vague. Since everyone seems to point at me I don't see any real reason as to when they should be posted. I'll make a double post though. The more I post the more I am suspected. I am sorry to have let you down, town.

I am tempted to just vote myself and save the time to move on.

Spoiler

I hope I never ever get an actual Mafia role in any DGames Mafia, since I appear to take the guise of one very well.

So at this point, you are either one of three things.
1) A very bad scum player. I mean REALLY bad.
2) A flailing townie, albeit one who can't seem to argue or contribute discussion
3) A smart scum that is effectively distracting people from whoever your buddy is, though even this approach has it's dumb-points.

Now let me preface with this: if the case is number 2, I IMPLORE YOU. PLEASE make some effort to prove us wrong. You've effectively done nothing but /lynch yourself

Now onto other things: If everything were to come down to statistics, there is a 2/3 chance (according to this chart, which all bases upon my assumptions being correct, which they may or may not be) that you are indeed scum. Wether you are dumb or smart doesn't matter. Any scum is equally able to send over a PM to kill somebody each night, so you need to be lynched despite your intelligence level.

If you are under the 1/3 chance of being town, then you aren't really contributing anything. You are distracting others from chasing whoever may be the real scum, and your continued refusal to (publicly) take a stand is diluting the value of everybody's votes. If the lynch limit is reached, the lynch happens, regardless of whether or not we have reached deadline (I'm pretty sure at least). You could finish the L-1 vote condition and possibly get a scum hanging, but your indecision could eventually lead to the procrastination and eventual disbanding of what could be a good bandwagon.

Statistically, assuming my reads are correct, it is the smarter choice to lynch you under the assumption that you are scum. If you are town, and my assumptions are still correct, we have at least lynched a distraction AND made everybody else's votes more impacting.

Again, look my preface. I really don't want to have a misslynch, but all logic that I have pondered is pointing at you.
/vote Terywj

 

[Grump]

EBWOP: /ninja'd

But my points remain the same.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So at this point, you are either one of three things.
1) A very bad scum player. I mean REALLY bad.
2) A flailing townie, albeit one who can't seem to argue or contribute discussion
3) A smart scum that is effectively distracting people from whoever your buddy is, though even this approach has it's dumb-points.

Or I am (0).

Now let me preface with this: if the case is number 2, I IMPLORE YOU. PLEASE make some effort to prove us wrong. You've effectively done nothing but /lynch yourself

Since everyone's posts are so convincing I'm very well about to /lynch myself.

If you are under the 1/3 chance of being town, then you aren't really contributing anything. You are distracting others from chasing whoever may be the real scum, and your continued refusal to (publicly) take a stand is diluting the value of everybody's votes. If the lynch limit is reached, the lynch happens, regardless of whether or not we have reached deadline (I'm pretty sure at least). You could finish the L-1 vote condition and possibly get a scum hanging, but your indecision could eventually lead to the procrastination and eventual disbanding of what could be a good bandwagon.

It's a continued refusal if I just posted something about assumptions and shenanigans? That's odd. Never knew about that. Will keep in mind.

Statistically, assuming my reads are correct, it is the smarter choice to lynch you under the assumption that you are scum. If you are town, and my assumptions are still correct, we have at least lynched a distraction AND made everybody else's votes more impacting.

Everyone's votes "more impacting" meaning how before the current page the tally was focused on UberMario. Yet Meta-Kirby compared the Mafioso to be Ranmaru and myself. Why do you think that is? Not only does your assumption shift that I am "distracting", I am responding to everyone asking me "State something which you've analyzed." If I'm distracting, ignore me. I am answering other people, and if you're going to call me out on being distracting then just don't read my posts. I'm not even bothering to talk to you an- right. I'm supposed to be answering everyone else.

Again, look my preface. I really don't want to have a misslynch, but all logic that I have pondered is pointing at you.
/vote Terywj

Hmmk. Well have fun. I said what I wanted to say in my last segment.

 

[M.K]

Grump, don't take this post as me doubting you or anything. This next bit is for the sake of newbie/experienced discussion:

Tery, take a look at Grump's post. He's got conjecture, he's got facts, and he's got scenarios. Now, take a look at your own post and realize that you have none of this. Now, also consider the possibility that Grump is scum and you are town. As a 3rd party, who would you be more willing to follow? The person with facts and scenarios, or your AtE/Activity Police?

Let's assume for one moment that Grump is scum (this is an aside, as if we know 100% Grump is scum already, which we don't). He's capitalizing on the fact that you have basically said "I'm done, I'm so bad at this, but I'm town". By playing in this manner, you've created a scapegoat for scum to target. Never do this. Scapegoats are the easiest town players that scum can target for the day. Mostly because they're playing generally bad games/AtE-ridden games.

TL;DR version: By playing in the way you are doing, you allow more vocal, fact-driven individuals to capitalize on your play. If you may assume for one moment that these players have the possibility of being scum, then you're playing into their hand.

 

[Grump]

Again, that was a very bad ninja.

But regardless, you have attacked others. That's easy for scum to do, that is very well what they are SUPPOSED to do. What I'm asking you to do now is defend yourself. You had your chance to be on the offensive and you skimmed right past it.

Since everyone's posts are so convincing I'm very well about to /lynch myself.

One reason that you aren't defending yourself is that everybody else is saying "Don't appeal to our emotions." and yet you insist on AtE-ing with no end in sight. A valid discussion cannot be had if you simply ignore us.

Or I am (0).

You have yet to prove this. All of my points are backed up by logic. Your behavior and publicly-released thought processes have remained consistently scummy (in the literal sense, not in the Mafia sense), so you will need INCREDIBLY strong LOGIC to overcome the history that you've made for yourself.

It's a continued refusal if I just posted something about assumptions and shenanigans? That's odd. Never knew about that. Will keep in mind.

You didn't defend yourself. You also didn't vote. It's been said before that simply analyzing is null and void without some action to back it up. You are still neutral. That is still one vote that is sitting there doing nothing. Vote for me if you want (assuming you provide valid reasoning and logic)- that will lead to discussion and perhaps clear up your name if you happen to be town (and contributing something at the same time). Though a simple OMGUS vote will only incriminate you further.

And please look at the voting system. The larger the majority of players, the more votes it will take to make a lynch. With one less player, that's one less vote needed. If that vote wasn't being used in the first place, then all we've done is distributed the power of that vote to the other players. Therefor, everybody's votes have MORE say-so. It's similar to how one vote is more likely to make a difference in a local election as opposed to a national election. Fewer people = more powerful votes.

And ignoring you would be a mistake. Refer back to my point where a dumb scum and a smart scum can both night-kill with equal effectiveness.

 

[Grump]

Grump, don't take this post as me doubting you or anything. This next bit is for the sake of newbie/experienced discussion:

Tery, take a look at Grump's post. He's got conjecture, he's got facts, and he's got scenarios. Now, take a look at your own post and realize that you have none of this. Now, also consider the possibility that Grump is scum and you are town. As a 3rd party, who would you be more willing to follow? The person with facts and scenarios, or your AtE/Activity Police?

Let's assume for one moment that Grump is scum (this is an aside, as if we know 100% Grump is scum already, which we don't). He's capitalizing on the fact that you have basically said "I'm done, I'm so bad at this, but I'm town". By playing in this manner, you've created a scapegoat for scum to target. Never do this. Scapegoats are the easiest town players that scum can target for the day. Mostly because they're playing generally bad games/AtE-ridden games.

TL;DR version: By playing in the way you are doing, you allow more vocal, fact-driven individuals to capitalize on your play. If you may assume for one moment that these players have the possibility of being scum, then you're playing into their hand.

This is actually a good point, and I understand why you bring this up. It seems like we have equal goals, but different methods.

Even if I'm offed tonight by scum (which I most likely will be, if not one of the other aggressive players), I can hope that I've created enough points of contention (and possibly motivated some townies to become more active) that the scum will be found out eventually.

Note to all: Don't take any of this personally :] I'm playing for the team win, not to hurt feelings lol.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Again, that was a very bad ninja.

But regardless, you have attacked others. That's easy for scum to do, that is very well what they are SUPPOSED to do. What I'm asking you to do now is defend yourself. You had your chance to be on the offensive and you skimmed right past it.

Lol since when was I on the offensive? I guess it's just me, but I don't think asking questions and throwing out food for thought is considered as offensive or Mafia hunting. Also, Sephiroth Masarume attacked me practically 10 seconds after UberMario (I think he was last) confirmed and Day 1 began. I've never been on offense.

One reason that you aren't defending yourself is that everybody else is saying "Don't appeal to our emotions." and yet you insist on AtE-ing with no end in sight. A valid discussion cannot be had if you simply ignore us.

I honestly don't see how I'm using the ATE or whatever it's called. Again, maybe I didn't word it right way back when the bandwagoning started, but I meant that illogically voting me to death isn't going to benefit the town, as any chance I have to help them is out. I don't even properly understand how this ATE works, let alone effectively using it over and over again. I apologize for th- *remembers Meta-Kirby's post* nevermind.

You have yet to prove this. All of my points are backed up by logic. Your behavior and publicly-released thought processes have remained consistently scummy (in the literal sense, not in the Mafia sense), so you will need INCREDIBLY strong LOGIC to overcome the history that you've made for yourself.

Well then that's the part where I said I give up because as a new player I don't know how to do so when it's either:

(A) Don't make assumption -> Get accused.
(B) Apologize for lack of skill -> Get accused.
(C) Say anything regarding votes -> Get accused.
(D) Make an assumption -> Get accused by someone else completely.
(E) Respond to an accusation -> Get called out for being too "defensive."
(F) Halfheartedly guess -> Get accused.
(G) Make some BS / outworldy guess -> Get caled out for being ***** Mafia (lol).
(H) Make a defensive assumption -> Get accused for not using enough logic.
And let's not forget.
(I) Ask a question -> Get ignored. Trolololol

I guess it's just something I'll have to get used to.

You didn't defend yourself. You also didn't vote. It's been said before that simply analyzing is null and void without some action to back it up. You are still neutral. That is still one vote that is sitting there doing nothing. Vote for me if you want (assuming you provide valid reasoning and logic)- that will lead to discussion and perhaps clear up your name if you happen to be town (and contributing something at the same time). Though a simple OMGUS vote will only incriminate you further.

Well the part of my post where you skipped is the part where I will be basing a vote on by tonight, but again you said it yourself that it doesn't matter.

And please look at the voting system. The larger the majority of players, the more votes it will take to make a lynch. With one less player, that's one less vote needed. If that vote wasn't being used in the first place, then all we've done is distributed the power of that vote to the other players. Therefor, everybody's votes have MORE say-so. It's similar to how one vote is more likely to make a difference in a local election as opposed to a national election. Fewer people = more powerful votes.

See previous segment. The part where you ignored an earlier post / part.

And ignoring you would be a mistake. Refer back to my point where a dumb scum and a smart scum can both night-kill with equal effectiveness.

Is it? Everyone else already seems to have that covered, Grump.

 

[Grump]

@Everybody: Am I grossly overreacting?

@Glyph: What would you say if Tery flipped town (assuming she was lynched tonight)? Any responses to MK's most recent post?

@Acrostic: When you get back, who's your most prominent scum/town read at the moment?

@Ubermario Bandwagon: Now that he's been becoming a bit more active, what are your reads on him?

@All: Now that we have 2 L-2 "wagons", one can effectively ask about the significance of a hammer vote and the timing. If it came down to your one vote, would you hammer as soon as you had valid reasoning? How about not until the deadline? Would you refrain from hammering at all?

 

[M.K]

Why would you be overreacting? There's no reason to be hesitant to question someone, unless it's on something that is mostly considered irrelevant or baseless, which you've proven it hasn't been.

 

[M.K]

(A) Don't make assumption -> Get accused.
(B) Apologize for lack of skill -> Get accused.
(C) Say anything regarding votes -> Get accused.
(D) Make an assumption -> Get accused by someone else completely.
(E) Respond to an accusation -> Get called out for being too "defensive."
(F) Halfheartedly guess -> Get accused.
(G) Make some BS / outworldy guess -> Get caled out for being ***** Mafia (lol).
(H) Make a defensive assumption -> Get accused for not using enough logic.
And let's not forget.

Ever consider the theater? You've consistently done nothing in this game but spout how dramatic you can be.
All of these are gross exaggerations of either:

A) Your own effort - "Make defensive case"? Have you really done that yet? Maybe once? Yeah.
or
B) Everyone else's reaction.

Stop trying to gain sympathy. It gets you nowhere.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@All: Now that we have 2 L-2 "wagons", one can effectively ask about the significance of a hammer vote and the timing. If it came down to your one vote, would you hammer as soon as you had valid reasoning? How about not until the deadline? Would you refrain from hammering at all?

What's hammering mean? Or am I just dumb and thinking too much about it?

Ever consider the theater? You've consistently done nothing in this game but spout how dramatic you can be.
All of these are gross exaggerations of either:

A) Your own effort - "Make defensive case"? Have you really done that yet? Maybe once? Yeah.
or
B) Everyone else's reaction.

Stop trying to gain sympathy. It gets you nowhere.

I told you I apologized for that already. But what did you say?
"If you really want to help town, then defend yourself properly and with facts, not this riduculous "woe is me, I'm such a newbie" attitude. "
I am not trying to actively gather sympathy. If I was a Mafioso, wouldn't the goal to be avoiding sympathy? Avoiding sympathy also avoids most of the targeted looks.

Edit - I'm pretty sure a defensive case is completely different than an assumption? Or have I mixed those two words up as well.

 

[Grump]

When a vote reaches L-1 (one vote left needed), then hammering would be supplying the last vote needed to fulfill the lynch.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

When a vote reaches L-1 (one vote left needed), then hammering would be supplying the last vote needed to fulfill the lynch.

Okay. Thank you for clearing that up.

Since I'm one part of the L-2 line, I would not hammer a vote for UberMario just to save myself. Because I've played like **** and could at least give UberMario a chance since I obviously know hammering him would just make me appear even moreso like Mafia than I already appear to be. At the same time, voting for someone completely different is stupid as nothing gets done. The same can be said if I did not vote.
That said, because of the scenario I would either vote myself off to reveal Town or cancel a vote, but I highly doubt my play will go that far without registering the two needed votes.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I realized I just repeated something twice. I'm ********.

 

[ranmaru]

Meta

"#80 – Ranmaru – Why wait for others to start and see what they think? Not having an outright opinion does not make you town. In fact, scum has no need to form opinions in the first place, because they have facts."

I said that because I would want to be sure who I picked, unless it was RVS.

Meta

"#82 – Ranmaru – This is probably just a newbie thing (and I’m sure as I read farther into it, it’ll be explained and what not) but you don’t really have to question RVS votes in that sort of manner. It’s fine that you feel suspicious, but RVS is generally random and crazy."

Yes, it was. If you read further (and I'm sure you will), I did state that I withdrew my suspicion from that, and learned that that was simply the rvs.

Meta
"#105 – Ranmaru – Um, what is this? I don’t think that was a good move to vote Vand for “being ready to vote someone”. That’s not a reason, that’s …a response to the actions presented before him. That’s typically what you do in a Mafia game, which is voting and unvoting to apply and relieve pressure."

He said OMGUS is fine at times. But yet again, I am still learning. So please, let me know if I do a newbie thing.

Meta
"#107#109 – Tery and Ranmaru – This almost seems like a staged discussion. Tery too willingly accepts Ran’s argument about his vote on
Vand, and Tery once again becomes the activity police. "

No, he called me out on this "He is quick to vote others, eh?? Hmmm. Choose your vote wisely."

and I forgot to mention that Van was quick to CHANGE votes, and not just voting.

So you are wrong.

Meta
#114 – Ranmaru – Defending Tery? Buddying Tery, and criticizing Seph’s vote as “just a vote on whoever was there to take it”, which I read as, “jumping on a wagon”.

No, I was admitting to the RVS. I was agreeing that Tery was just as newbie as I was. Honesty is a virtue... (I'm not sure if those are the exact words)

Meta
"#122- Ranmaru – These posts strike me as odd for a variety of reasons. Wasn’t Ran the first person in the game to say “I’ll see what others think before placing a vote”. This indicates a couple things. A) he’s being coached B) he’s indecisive and requires some type of lead or c) he’s not comfortable making stances yet. HOWEVER, he’s also the quickest individual to defend Tery, a wagon on this. A newbie mistake is to think that you always have to protect your scum partner. It’s not a true statement. If you’ve got a scum partner that really ****s up all the time, go ahead and get rid of them if you see the time is right. Not only does it add points to YOUR credibility (if you’re on a scum lynch), but it removes a liability from the game. "

Now, I only was agreeing that he may have been a newbie like me. I think you are trying to take advantage of my inexperience, but I will not let you.

As I said before, I didn't wait too long. Of course I'm not one to be "quick to judge" but, I did vote who I thought needed it at the time.

Meta
"#127#138 – More of the same. More of Vanderzant telling everyone the correct way of going about an argument, and more of two players (Ran and Tery) trying to avoid doing so. There are not a whole lot of things that are uniform in each game of Mafia; however, the way or arguing, whether a scum player or a town player, needs to stick to facts and facts only. The counterargument of “But this is Day 1! We have no facts” its blatently wrong, because I’ve already got a 2 – page word document of **** that I’ve been typing out lmao. In any case, there are ALSO very few things in Mafia that one could consider “not a risk”. Risks are common, and if you spend all your time waiting for proof or the lynch candidate to be like “you’re right guys, I’ve really ****ed up. I’m mafia, shoot me”, then you are wasting your time, because it will never happen."

Yet again, I didn't really know much of the RVS. I was simply adjusting, but then again, I won't let your experience demolish my inexperience. I will stand up for myself.

I was also questioning what we should have Done about Uber, since he hadn't posted much at all. I am keeping what Van and you say as IC's in mind, but I still will be wary of you both.

Meta
#139 – Ranmaru – RVS has been LONG over. LONG over, this vote is bad.

I didn't think so at the time. It seemed Van RVS'd me in the same page, so I do think you are wrong sir.





Tery
"No evaluations on UberMario or Glyph? Interesting."

No, that is weird. He totally ignored... well not really. We should wait until he sees Glyph's and Uber's later posts... but I'm sure he'll put them under yellow for almost no content, maybe.


Tery
"At least it's evident for me, aha. I'm merely stating that I'm finally giving up. It's not attention of emotion or something or whatever when I'm actually giving up, haha. I don't see how any sort of "evidence" I provide will save my *** but anyway here we go.

Ranmaru has the "Teryble" quality in his posts, much like mine. I am not sure if I suspect him at this point, but he references that he is doing the same as I am - waiting before making evaluations. He's also asking for more input. If what I'm doing is making me appear Mafioso, then I could suspect he is Mafioso as well.
Sephiroths Masarume started the bandwagoning, but what real motives did he have? Why wouldn't he just start accusing J or Vanderzant when they're the experienced players? Was there a specific reason why he selected me as the primary bandwagon target? I talk to Sephiroths a lot so I'd assume he would want to get me out of the way, but whatever reasons he wanted to do so I am completely unclear about.
Of course, I don't suspect him at all. UberMario is using the same "excuse" you accused me for, but even through skimming no indication is used on someone like Glyph for his accusations on me, etc.

I don't quite understand what being activity police is."


I have the same quality post because I think I'm a beginner, as you are. I don't think you or I should let Meta kirby make town suspect WE are scum, just because we are making newbie mistakes. That, I won't allow.

But, you say if people suspect you as a mafia, you would suspect me as mafia as well? I think you may be trying to take me down with you (only because Meta came up with the idea, it wasn't your idea originally), if people supposedly voted you off.



"Grump, don't take this post as me doubting you or anything. This next bit is for the sake of newbie/experienced discussion:

Tery, take a look at Grump's post. He's got conjecture, he's got facts, and he's got scenarios. Now, take a look at your own post and realize that you have none of this. Now, also consider the possibility that Grump is scum and you are town. As a 3rd party, who would you be more willing to follow? The person with facts and scenarios, or your AtE/Activity Police?

Let's assume for one moment that Grump is scum (this is an aside, as if we know 100% Grump is scum already, which we don't). He's capitalizing on the fact that you have basically said "I'm done, I'm so bad at this, but I'm town". By playing in this manner, you've created a scapegoat for scum to target. Never do this. Scapegoats are the easiest town players that scum can target for the day. Mostly because they're playing generally bad games/AtE-ridden games.

TL;DR version: By playing in the way you are doing, you allow more vocal, fact-driven individuals to capitalize on your play. If you may assume for one moment that these players have the possibility of being scum, then you're playing into their hand."

What facts did he have? Please re-iterate, so that I may put your explanation in my own meaning.



Seph, Grump, Acrostic, Van, and Meta all seem to have some experience in debating/mafia.

Me, and Tery, do not. I, am trying to learn all I can from Van and Meta to make sure I do well in this game.

But again, I did take a stance, Meta. Please read further before accusing me of waiting for too long, or if you still do, then I'll notice you may be using a gimmick. If you see anything that still seems newbie, please let me know what I am still doing wrong (also Van please say something as well, so I can have both sides)

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

@Glyph: What would you say if Tery flipped town (assuming she was lynched tonight)? Any responses to MK's most recent post?

I'd kick myself for lynching a townie, but I wouldn't be devastated. Tery has consistently posted information that could be considered scummy, and offered very little to assist the town side.

That and very very surprised.

In response to MK's post, I'm really not sure what direction to go with it. I want to try to get a read off who could have what alignment based off who we get to vote, but with inactivity that's probably not going to work at all. And on top of that, I can't just look for the person who votes for him without having prodded him for information, because several people have already taken apart almost all of his posts.

So I guess what I'm saying is I won't pick anyone out as definitely town based off this vote, nor will I decided someone is definitely mafia.

Tery, your most recent is post, once again, and appeal to emotion. You're trying to paint yourself as a selfless hero trying to save Uber from being lynched by sacrificing yourself.

Aaaaand I'm going to go ahead and call you on your self voting thing. If you're going to vote for yourself, go ahead and do it. At this point the only way I'll ever believe you're town is when the mod specifically tells me you are. In fact, I'd like everyone who's not currently voting for Terywj to seriously consider changing their vote. He's already been given chance after chance and hasn't produced a defense that I would deem any better than "shaky".

And again, if you don't want to vote for him, please, tell us why! If this is all some horrible, horrible, very convincing misunderstanding and YOU have the key piece of information we're missing, tell us! Because right now, things aren't looking good for him.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

No, that is weird. He totally ignored... well not really. We should wait until he sees Glyph's and Uber's later posts... but I'm sure he'll put them under yellow for almost no content, maybe.

Gee, thanks. Don't worry about all the work I've found towards investigating Tery, I guess that counts as "almost no content"

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Dude. Seriously. If I go vote UberMario in a L-1 situation that just makes me the *** and not a team player, just trying to save myself in a horrible way. Wouldn't I be hurting (leaving the situation as it stands) the town if I just voted UberMario off with no resignation (as in, hammering)? Please tell me what I'm doing there, because as you have already pointed out I am utterly clueless as to why that course of action makes me a "selfless hero" lol.

"That and very very surprised."

I said it earlier - I really hope in future games I am not Mafia because I seem to play like one.

Edit - This does not connotate a self-revealing of a role. Although in the end if it comes down to it I might, just to have proven you guys wrong.

The part about how I am trying to drag him down with me.

I don't care how you read it but that was not a pitiful attempt at a bandwagon. I was merely saying that since Meta-Kirby accuses me of shying away using the "I'm new" excuse then he has all the right to accuse you as well which he has done so but to a much lesser extent (in my opinion).

If I was truly Mafia, would I try getting my Mafia partner removed as well? I would think not. To a bystander, my appeal there seems like I'm only shifting the blame to cover the remaining Mafia party member, which remains hidden amongst this chaos. I am not defending anyone, but pointing out things which I have sorta picked up among the recent pages.

 

[ranmaru]

Oops, sorry Glyph. I meant for Uber. You did put some work in, and I can see in the above posts. Please don't get angry at me for such a mistake.

 

[M.K]

@Glyph, I definitely appreciate your willingness to go ahead and get Tery lynched, but there are some other crucial steps before we do so.

L-1 101 - What to Do Before a Lynch

Scenario : You've just put Billy at L-1 for whatever reason you believe. But hold up! Billy is vehemently defending himself, and claims to not be Mafia. Here are some crucial things you should look out for at the L-1 Stage:

1) Ask for a claim. "Billy, claim your role and character now":

Role Claim: What your role says you can do. Billy says "I'm a cop, I can investigate a player each night and determine their alignment!"

Character Claim: The flavor of your character. "I am Luigi".

Role and Character Claim: Both combined. "I am Luigi, the Town Cop, I can investigate a player each night and determine their alignment".

Scenario:

Billy claims Luigi, Town Cop.

1) Look for a counter claim: Is anyone else in this game going to claim to be a Town Cop? Rarely are their MULTIPLES of roles (aka 2 cops). Counter claims is when another player steps up and says "You are lying! I am the town cop!" or "You are lying! I am Luigi!". This can catch scummy players in the act of lying.

2) Evaluate flavor: Look at prior flips. On most occassions for non-newbie games, flavor is specifically designed to NOT MATTER.

For example, in my own hosted game of PikMafia (Pikmin 1/2 Based), there were 3 Mafia players - The Red Pikmin, The White Pikmin, and the Pileated Snagret. Only one of these characters is actually a villain in Pikmin. Therefore, you couldn't use flavor to determine whether or not the other two characters were scum or not.

Therefore, the logical conclusion you should make from the prior lesson:

Do not be overly ambitious to lynch. Putting a player at L-1, observing their reactions, and asking for claims is a very wise thing to do before you accidentally rid yourself of a useful townie, power role, etc.. L-1 is a special circumstance that amps up the pressure in a GOOD way, so use it to your advantage!

Please ask questions if you need more clarity!

--------------------------------------

Glyph also raises an interesting point; believing Tery's claim, then he may be townie. However, useful townie, or useless townie? That's another thing to consider. Of course you don't want a townie gone (numbers are the most important thing), but it's better than lynching a useful member. This is ALSO why claims are good; you can seperate the useful, from the useless.

 

[Grump]

@Ubermario: Just a bit of trivia. This is actually the first game I've started :] I've subbed twice, but I was COMPLETELY lost and I had replaced lurkers both times, so I was offed very early in my sub-game. I do, however, have some experience in debating I'm known for being aggressive.

@Tery: I would look at your hammer with scrutiny, but if you supplied good reasoning that has been backed throughout the thread, I would actually applaud you, despite however the vote may have come out.

For example, the reads that you posted prior to my blatant ninja? I liked that post. I didn't attack it at all. Doesn't mean I agree or disagree- I just want you to be able to put forth those observations as you see fit.
What do you think of me, for example? Town or scum?

@Glyph:

So I guess what I'm saying is I won't pick anyone out as definitely town based off this vote, nor will I decided someone is definitely mafia.

Definitely is a harsh word. Any possibilities that you may have gleaned?

 

[M.K]

Tery, there is no valor in Mafia. You don't win by gaining enough notoriety points to cash in for the win.

Be cut-throat.

Case and point; Vanderzant and I are buddies; however, do I want to lynch him if I think he's mafia? You bet your *** I do, because our friendship is not going to get in the way of my own win. It's why you see HUGE discrepancies between the moods of games and the moods in the social thread.

 

[Grump]

@MK: We have a social thread still?

 

[M.K]

DGames Social Thread / VLA Thread

Sure do.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Tery, there is no valor in Mafia. You don't win by gaining enough notoriety points to cash in for the win.

Be cut-throat.

Case and point; Vanderzant and I are buddies; however, do I want to lynch him if I think he's mafia? You bet your *** I do, because our friendship is not going to get in the way of my own win. It's why you see HUGE discrepancies between the moods of games and the moods in the social thread.

Valor? I also have no idea what "notoriety" means, so you're gonna have to explain that one to me before I respond, lol.

I am well aware of that. In fact I am tempted to believe that reason is probably why Sephiroths went after me in the first place.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Oops, sorry Glyph. I meant for Uber. You did put some work in, and I can see in the above posts. Please don't get angry at me for such a mistake.

Don't sweat it man, I'm not really mad. Just playing around a little.

And MK, excuse me, I got swept up in the moment. You're right, there is a lot more information we can get out of this.

So Tery, what exactly IS your role?

@Grump: Only new thing I hadn't really noticed before was Ranmaru defending Tery early on in the game. Could be really useful information if Tery flips scum, but not overwhelmingly so. It was early enough that Tery didn't have quite as strong as a case built against him.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So Tery, what exactly IS your role?

I am Peach.

(Oh the irony)

Edit - Grump, I'm a boy. I think you know where the irony comes from, haha.

 

[M.K]

Valor? I also have no idea what "notoriety" means, so you're gonna have to explain that one to me before I respond, lol.

I am well aware of that. In fact I am tempted to believe that reason is probably why Sephiroths went after me in the first place.

A.K.A. If you were to flip town, people will not say "Well, he was noble in his own death, so that makes it okay". This isn't a time to be noble and/or forgiving towards other people. You claim not to tackle Uber head-on, but why? You've got literally nothing to lose and everything to gain. "Not a team player/not be an ***". What team? As town, you should have no clue who is on your team. As scum, you know EXACTLY who's team you are on.
Also, be an ***, let loose, and save yourself if you are town. There is no valor in dying as a townie.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Oops, sorry Glyph. I meant for Uber. You did put some work in, and I can see in the above posts. Please don't get angry at me for such a mistake.

I am Peach.

(Oh the irony)

Edit - Grump, I'm a boy. I think you know where the irony comes from, haha.

Okay, does that make you vanilla? Jailer? Tracker? What are you?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Peach is the Jailer.

 

[M.K]

And what does that role do , tery?