Mario Mafia/Newbie 10! Game Over! Scum Wins!

[Grump]

And what does that role do , tery?

Well, this is an interesting scenario. Do we have anybody willing to counterclaim?

While the position of Jailer is a nice one, there is now the question: Will you be targeted tonight? If you were such a valuable role, why were you so quick to give up?

 

[Grump]

EBWOP

In fact, I don't think we want a counterclaim. That would give the scum a target to go after, should the other jailer claim come up and speak. Let's try to logic this out first, he's not at L-1 yet.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

And what does that role do , tery?

Someone like you should know.

I'm allowed to protect a player of choice, preventing their use of ability if they have one.

Now you see why I said it would be bad if I was lynched, not because the town would lose a townie, but being able to protect someone would be pretty huge, since as someone said earlier, "You can be dumb Mafia or smart Mafia to kill someone."
I'm probably going to die now anyway though. I apologize for coming off as a Mafia.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So quick to give up? Everyone has their *** in my face already, so I either get lynched and prove everyone wrong, or reveal my role and get killed Night 1, proving everyone wrong.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Someone like you should know.

He wants so see if you know.

 

[Grump]

I didn't mean give up and roleclaim. I meant give up in general. Your recent post trend was self-dooming yourself to eternal scum-dom and/or lynchage.

I doubt either of those words are real x.x

You also didn't answer my question as to whether or not you thought I was town or scum

 

[Terywj [태리]]

He wants so see if you know.

What would I do, acclaim a Jailer role and not have any idea what it does? I have the silly PM.

 

[M.K]

He wants so see if you know.

Exactly. I'm not stupid, haha, remember I'm considered the Experienced Player along with Seph and Vand.

 

[Grump]

You must remember that we don't know that you have the PM. People fake roleclaims all the time.

Though this WAS a silly question, as the answer lies in the original post to this whole thread.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Grump - You've been really aggressive this entire time, which is something you've reflected on. Your posts and suggestions lead me to believe you were town. But again this is my opinion.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

exactly. I'm not stupid, haha, remember i'm considered the experienced player along with seph and vand.

[color=#1c1c].....[/color]

what would i do, acclaim a jailer role and not have any idea what it does? I have the silly pm.

[color=#1c1c].....[/color]

 

[M.K]

What would I do, acclaim a Jailer role and not have any idea what it does? I have the silly PM.

In PikMafia, SwordsRBroken claimed Town Bomb although that role was nowhere in the game, and is not a widely used role.
Besides, it was a test.
And your role PM claim? That doesn't mean ****. The role is listed in the first post for anyone to see.

 

[M.K]

AKA, unless we get a counter claim, then Tery is safe.

 

[Grump]

@MK and everybody else: Post #362 please. Thoughts?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

In PikMafia, SwordsRBroken claimed Town Bomb although that role was nowhere in the game, and is not a widely used role.
Besides, it was a test.
And your role PM claim? That doesn't mean ****. The role is listed in the first post for anyone to see.

Shows how much I read that part of the OP. *Facedesk*
What does role PM claim mean?

@MK and everybody else: Post #362 please. Thoughts?

That's easy. They're clearly hiding something if they try to counterclaim me.

 

[M.K]

@MK and everybody else: Post #362 please. Thoughts?

The first post specifically says we have 1 Jailkeeper in the game. We want a counterclaim because it outs a scum because:

a) Tery is jailer, counterclaimer claims Jailer to try and get Tery lynched. Tery flips jailer, the counterclaimer is scum.

b) Tery is scum, counteclaimer claims Jailer. Tery gets lynched.

Win win for town.

 

[M.K]

Shows how much I read that part of the OP. *Facedesk*
What does role PM claim mean?

I meant the fact that you thought it was silly to claim Jailer b/c your role PM told you what it meant, which was proven moot by the first post in the game.

Always read the OP children

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Oh that was a statement and not a question. Well either way, counterclaimer if one arises if immediately getting my vote, since I'm Peach. I expect nothing less anyway.

How does me dying benefit the town? Sure I contribute *** to the discussion but I learned a lot. I would at least be able to do something Night 1 depending on my selection.

 

[M.K]

Its not the fact that you dying contribute to town, it's the fact that your flip tells us that the counterclaimer is scum, allowing us to lynch scum D2.

 

[M.K]

But very good for asking questions. Your play is improving steadily.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Exactly, if someone comes forward to counterclaim your role as Peach then we've pretty much ensured we get to kill off scum, be it you or whoever counterclaims.

 

[vanderzant]

Wow Jailer? Mad at outing an important PR on Day 1 barring no counter claims, but now we potentially have a confirmed townie to work with.

This is actually great for us because I think with Tery not being a play we improve our chances of hitting scum greatly. And Tery has a good shot of clearing a townie if we can lynch scum toDay.

Yeah my soft tell on Tery wasn't really a tell, I was just pointing it out to see what others thought. I've had incredibly mixed vibes on him though, especially these last few pages and probably would of pushed for his lynch if Uber picked up his act.

Good to see you here MK. I've only skimmed your catch up but I wouldn't be so quick to just on Ranmaru. I get this legit vibe that he really doesn't know what he's doing (not at all like my villains Gord vibe ) and that he is trying his best to contribute, as opposed to purposely playing odd (if that makes sense?).

My initial thoughts on Grump have been similar to yours, the only thing I didn't really didn't like was his vote on me (not sure if you've read up to their) as it just felt off compared to his previous play. He's not a play but I'm afraid to give him obvtown status. He just seems to naturally know what he's doing.

What do you think of Seph (especially last few pages). He strikes me as leagues better than his recent scum play in game-that-does-not-exist. Do you know his town play well?

I'm down in the town to lynch UberMario.

What do you think of Glyph?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Edit - Maybe I'm misunderstanding as to what flip means. Since I'm telling the truth and if you guys lynch me, any counterclaimer would day Day 2, but if counterclaim happens I think voting him off would be the best course of action, allowing me to jail someone.

Also, if no counterclaim happens, then what? How will we proceed from there?

Edit - "Tery not being a play..." What does that mean?

 

[vanderzant]

EBWOP

In fact, I don't think we want a counterclaim. That would give the scum a target to go after, should the other jailer claim come up and speak. Let's try to logic this out first, he's not at L-1 yet.

No if there is a Jailer they should counter claim immediately.

 

[vanderzant]

Tery if you are mafia, then the real Jailer claims and we lynch either you or him. 1 of you must be scum in this scenario because town would not lie about being a Jailer.

It is a tactic (albeit not widely used) for mafia to fake claim a "protective" role in order to out the real protective role.

Right now we know Glyph/Grump/MK/Myself are all not the Jailer because we would of CC'd

 

[ranmaru]

I sort of think that revealing Tery's role puts him in danger (but what else can town do?) , but then again, I think he forced himself to a corner with his ATE thing Meta talked about.

So Van, what things may I be doing wrong still? What may I need to improve on? I want to be able to be a good asset, so I am willing to take suggestions and put them to my own meaning (so I can remember them).

 

[Grump]

@Ran: It did put him in danger, but I hadn't foreseen the possibility of possibly outing a scum. The only bad thing we have to worry about now is if we have no counterclaim, and Tery is indeed the jailer. She will be the first target most likely.

If it does out a scum though, then it's a just sacrifice. That would leave us all with only one scum to find, and the chances of a Town win are increased greatly. Based on the previous pressure, Tery may have not lasted a day to begin with (which is partially my fault/doing).

@Ran: Do you think that a misslynch, in this case, would be justified?

 

[vanderzant]

@Ran: I think you just need to be a bit more aggressive. A typical thing you will say is:

"I sort of think that revealing Tery's role puts him in danger (but what else can town do?) , but then again, I think he forced himself to a corner with his ATE thing Meta talked about."

Where you state both scenarios you are considering but don't reach a conclusion. I would of said

"Think Tery's claim is legit, it's good though because his play has sucked balls, so now instead of having to read him, he's either confirmed town or it comes down to a coin flip."

See the differences between our posts? While I'm probably thinking a similar thing to you, I'm picking what scenario I think is most likely and attempting to influence Town in what I think is a positive manner.

In almost every possible Mafia scenario, you are going to have indecisive thoughts if you are town. You're never truly 100% correct all the time. And we don't actually know anything until the moderator reveals it to us. But their are merits to picking what you see to be the right situation and ensuring that Town act in what you believe to be town's best interests.

Half of mafia is finding alignments, and the other half is convincing people you're right. You need to work on the second part .

 

[X1-12]

D1 Votecount!


Terywj (3) Glyph, UberMario, Grump
UberMario (3) Ranmaru, Vanderzant, Seph

Not voting (3) Meta-Kirby, Terywj, Acrostic

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Lynch!

Deadline is 17th Dec

 

[ranmaru]

@Ran: It did put him in danger, but I hadn't foreseen the possibility of possibly outing a scum. The only bad thing we have to worry about now is if we have no counterclaim, and Tery is indeed the jailer. She will be the first target most likely.

If it does out a scum though, then it's a just sacrifice. That would leave us all with only one scum to find, and the chances of a Town win are increased greatly. Based on the previous pressure, Tery may have not lasted a day to begin with (which is partially my fault/doing).

@Ran: Do you think that a misslynch, in this case, would be justified?

It would probably make the people who pressured him the most a bit more suspicious, but not so much, can't be suspicious for being suspicious lol.

So, either we can linch him, and find out if he really is town and jailer. Or, we could leave him be, trust in him, to protect someone. But who should he protect, you ask? Someone that might be in danger.

He would have to protect himself, since he now may be in danger (if it is possible for a jailer to protect himself, mod please clarify this) for being forced to reveal his role. It was through his own fault, but still, he'll have to choose who he will protect.

What are your thoughts on this, guys?

@Ran: I think you just need to be a bit more aggressive. A typical thing you will say is:

"I sort of think that revealing Tery's role puts him in danger (but what else can town do?) , but then again, I think he forced himself to a corner with his ATE thing Meta talked about."

Where you state both scenarios you are considering but don't reach a conclusion. I would of said

"Think Tery's claim is legit, it's good though because his play has sucked balls, so now instead of having to read him, he's either confirmed town or it comes down to a coin flip."

See the differences between our posts? While I'm probably thinking a similar thing to you, I'm picking what scenario I think is most likely and attempting to influence Town in what I think is a positive manner.

In almost every possible Mafia scenario, you are going to have indecisive thoughts if you are town. You're never truly 100% correct all the time. And we don't actually know anything until the moderator reveals it to us. But their are merits to picking what you see to be the right situation and ensuring that Town act in what you believe to be town's best interests.

Half of mafia is finding alignments, and the other half is convincing people you're right. You need to work on the second part .

Thank you, I will work on the second part.

 

[ranmaru]

*adding to post

Now, if we let him be, what risk do we run? If no one counter claims by then, then there shouldn't be a problem right?

If someone does claim, we linch one of them.

 

[M.K]

Yes to your second post, Ran.
Jailers cannot usually protect themselves, because Jailers ALSO don't allow someone to use their role that night. So therefore, a Jailer that uses his power on himself....cancels out his own power....so it's messy.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I was told by our GM that I am not allowed to jail myself so.

 

[Grump]

Also, if a jailer could protect themselves, then they would just protect themselves every single night (after claiming) and make it to a LyLo situation, where it would all come down to their vote. Too convenient of a situation to let happen, despite how awesome it would be for the townies. Overpowered does not lead to fun games x.x

Despite my previous harsh accusations, I withdraw my vote on you for the moment Tery. If we have two scum here that are willing to vote, I don't want them to /vote you and lead to a lynch right away before anybody can do anything.

/unvote Terywj

I would, however, like to look at the OTHER bandwagon. It was claimed that anybody that voted for Ubermario was to be claimed as Scum. This seemed to have been engineered by Vandie and Seph. How would you two defend yourselves if somebody claimed this was a protective measure if you happened to be Mafia?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Ok guys I just got off of work. I'm reading the thread.

For future reference, since my finals are over, I'll be working almost everyday except Sundays or days that I'm not needed for. I'll be at work from 3-8/9 MT depending on how busy we are on the week days. On Saturday I'll be working from 1-8/9 MT. Since I'm working at a tree lot I'll be off work a few days after Christmas (since I still need to do clean up).

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Time to come out of the rabbit hole. To begin with, I believe that most of us have consented to the two claims: 1. we are not Peach and 2. we are not the jailer. In fact, if a false claim were to be made in this game, then the last roles that mafia would consider would be Peach and the jailer. Consider this, Peach is Mario's #1 playmate. In any game that involves Mario characters, she is in it. Consider Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, and the Mario series. If mafia were to claim a fake character then they would choose Wario, Waluigi, or some other obscure character to prevent a clash from picking popular favorites like Mario, Luigi, Toad, so on and so forth.

Second, let us consider the notion of probability. There are five town roles in this game, two power roles, and two mafia roles to make a game of nine. That means that if mafia were to make a claim on D1, then the best claim would be to stick to a town role. Picking a town role means that even though other people may claim town, they cannot be sure if the other members of town are town or not. Therefore adhering to a vanilla town role would cause mayhem and mishap, a goal of mafia. Claiming a power role on D1 can be compared to suicide. There is already someone else who is guaranteed to have that role and lynch from a pure probability standpoint comes down to a 50-50 chance. That is not a smart move on the part of mafia to play such a big sacrifice on their first move.

Terywj did not only claim role, but also claimed character. It is quite possibly one of the stupidest moves for a doctor-based role to take on the first day of the game. Leading up to his role reveal, it is obvious that Terywj was lapsing in and out of phases of annoyance / agitation. These are possibly techniques used by the mafia to wear down interest in the overall game and to coax out a response from weak players who can't keep their own emotions in check. Terywj needed only to be offered a bait in his weakened mental state and a fisher to cast the line in order to draw him out from the town pool.

Now let us consider this, why does this retrospective statement have any weight? Consider the role of a mafia members and a jailer. Both sides want to fit in with the rest of the town. Standing out may result in them getting lynched and therefore both try to stay under the radar and sneak quietly by without leaving a trace. Jailers, or at least newbie doctors tend to play similar to scum as they often have the same motivations as mafia members. They both want to play under the radar and avoid getting too much attention. Jailers want to freeze the options of the mafia whereas mafia want to play off the suspicions of the people. Both play a similar game of cat and mice seeking to weed out the other. Terywj was not only very bad at blending in with town, he stated that he had his own play style and made virtually no effort to play for the community in place of his individual "my rules, my way" attitude which led to him changing his tone from one of "community" to the community serving him as an "individual."

Let us not stray from the most important factor, who would notice that Terywj was acting like scum and suppose that he was a doctor from the previous information given? Why! Our good friends the mafia of course would be the first ones to key in on this behavior. By having someone as suspicious as Terywj and a possible jailer suspect, it became quickly obvious that he would become a priority target for mafia somewhere along the line. Let us consider these possibilities. Even though we may try to hide them in the back of our minds they must be brought to light for the good of town.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

First off, unvote Tery

I hate being wrong, but not enough to let it hurt my chances of winning the game.

So Acrostic, you're saying that those of us who pressured Tery to reveal his role are the prime scum suspects now?

As a side note, there's something that's been bothering me. If we all have certain characters assigned to us, whats to stop us from all just claiming our positions and looking for overlaps? Especially if there was a method where we could all post them without anyone else seeing them, so that people couldn't plan around which characters were already known. Is that just cheating or something, or am I missing something?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I understand it is stupid. Very, very stupid. However, I'd rather we understand that I am the Jailer/Peach and that we should spend the rest of our time weeding out other members or bandwagons, much like what Grump has done. Since I'm very likely to die Night 1, it would in our interest to attempt to lure out information from the two Mafia in our remaining time.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

First off, unvote Tery I hate being wrong, but not enough to let it hurt my chances of winning the game.

I am curious why you have already conceded defeat. I have posted nothing more than probabilities that have no backing. As you have contributed interesting ideas in the past, I am curious to hear your logic for deciding that lynching Terywj would be a bad move. After all, there is no affirmation from everyone that he is not the jailer.

So Acrostic, you're saying that those of us who pressured Tery to reveal his role are the prime scum suspects now?

I guess so, even though I haven't really looked far back into the thread to see who was applying pressure on Terywj. I kind of typed a rushed response in order to make up for the days I missed. I was hoping that town could come together and decide whether or not these ideas hold any weight and who would be involved in making Tery crack his role. I don't believe you were involved in the process as making Tery reveal his role would hurt town's chances of winning the game.

As a side note, there's something that's been bothering me. If we all have certain characters assigned to us, whats to stop us from all just claiming our positions and looking for overlaps? Especially if there was a method where we could all post them without anyone else seeing them, so that people couldn't plan around which characters were already known. Is that just cheating or something, or am I missing something?

I don't know. It does sound like cheating. Do you want us all to reveal our characters? I'm not sure how it would exactly help us to capture mafia though.

 

[M.K]

Don't be afraid to be wrong, Glyph. It's better that you caught your mistake BEFORE you mislynched than after.

And very good, you've caught a potential strategy!

Mass Claiming:

Mafia games are designed specifically with these in mind. Mass claiming is a theoretical event in which every single player in the game claims their role and character. When moderators are designing games, they make sure that a mass claim does not break the game entirely.

HOWEVER, that's not to say that it can't narrow down the suspects by quite alot.

Let us take a look at the game set up in the first post:

1X Town Tracker
1X Town Jailkeeper
5X Vanilla Townies
2X Mafia Goons

1.) Acrostic
2.) Grump
3.) Sephiroths Masamune
4.) Glyph
5.) Terywj
6.) Ranamru
7.) UberMario
8.) Vanderzant (IC)
9.) Meta-Kirby (IC)

If his Tery's role claim is to be believed, this is what we have:

1X Town Tracker
1X Town Jailkeeper
5X Vanilla Townies
2X Mafia Goons

1.) Acrostic
2.) Grump
3.) Sephiroths Masamune
4.) Glyph
5.) Terywj
6.) Ranamru
7.) UberMario
8.) Vanderzant (IC)
9.) Meta-Kirby (IC)

Now let's observe the situation a little closer:

The mod included 5 Vanilla Townie roles, a.k.a., roles with no abilities. He effectively wiped out the mass claim-chance-of-breaking-game because the two Mafia roles can claim Vanilla Townie, and then it's a matter of sorting through 7 people who have claimed Vanilla Townie (assuming the power roles have no counter claims against them.). Thus, the mass claim is not a viable option.

It does narrow down options, but is it worth outing Town's power roles?
That's for you to decide.