making melee bigger

[Hax]

our game is almost a decade old but its still one of the most popular games for kids to play. even kids who don't play smash competitively prefer melee to brawl, which is why i definitely think we could attract crowds of newcomers to our tournaments. tournies like ROM that try to bring melee back are great, but they limit the playerbase to people that have played melee competitively at some point. we could definitely get new generations of players to join the community by doing things as simple as hanging up posters; either outside of the venue tournies are held, or even on the streets. this is one of many ways we could advertise

what do you guys think

 

[Moblin]

As long as you can back up the posters with actual melee tourneys close to your area, then it's a great idea. And I think the only reason people don't do it is because they're lazy or they're scared of being labelled as "that video game guy" that puts posters everywhere.

 

[Ballistics]

Im a firm believer that someone only needs to see some old school tournament videos and they will be hooked, we need to get on G4 or some kind of tv channel

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i said it before but newspaper advertisments would be a good start. posters would also be ****. otacon would be a really good place to advertise. college/highschool clubs to create local interest.holding a melee side event at mainstream gaming tournaments would be ideal.

imo i wouldnt want melee to sellout..

 

[victra♥]

hanging up posters is a pretty etc is pretty common still isn't it?

 

[Lovage]

hanging up flyers at schools or YMCAs is a great idea

too bad melee players are lazy

 

[황미영]

My cousin who is eight prefers Brawl over Melee. But that's because he does whatever he wants in game to have fun.

 

[Untrust Us]

as a player getting into melee, i'd love regular smashfests or perhaps free small tournaments. When you're beginning to play melee, getting wrecked is a pretty bad feeling but losing money as well in tournaments is even worse.

I think that is the best way to encourage newcomers to become the best without losing tons of cash in the process.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

one of us melee players need to get into an entrepreneurship of some sort

 

[By-Tor]

Melee having it's own G4 would be the greatest thing ever, and it would encourage a lot of people to play. If only one of us smashers was super rich.

Starting small smashfests at places like school I believe is a great start and the local community can grow from there. I'm trying to start one at my school.

I think a major problem is that a lot of noobs wouldn't go to one because they're afraid they'll get beat and laughed at. What people need to understand about smash is that it isin't like Halo or COD, If you lose at smash, the winner should help you get better, not laugh or anything rude like that.

Melee will never die

 

[jugfingers]

I think melee tournaments need more scantly clad female groupies cheering and jiggling their breasts and stuff,

like cheerleaders, but with less dangerous acrobatics.

 

[Spit-wad]

Whenever there's a smash tourny, it would be nice to also have a free amateur tourny to go with it. Either come up with some sort of small prize, or have the amateur tourny first and let the winner get into the normal one for free (obiously some kind of honor system would be in place, so the pros don't just take the free entry).

 

[victra♥]

I think melee tournaments need more scantly clad female groupies cheering and jiggling their breasts and stuff,

like cheerleaders, but with less dangerous acrobatics.

this would be a good idea imo

 

[Zodiac]

Free tournies? How would you do that, I mean there has to be some sort of prize. I guess if you put up wii points or a gamestop gift card as the prize then it might work.

 

[Ballistics]

Whenever there's a smash tourny, it would be nice to also have a free amateur tourny to go with it. Either come up with some sort of small prize, or have the amateur tourny first and let the winner get into the normal one for free (obiously some kind of honor system would be in place, so the pros don't just take the free entry).

good idea although i dont think this would help make more ppl play melee

 

[Moooose]

the problem with having free smashfests and stuff
is that experienced players get bored playing against noobs
i'd much rather play someone better than me than some scrub lol

 

[Animal]

we got nothing to lose, lets do it

 

[Untrust Us]

well, it's not like you're forced to play with complete noobs. In my experience, the inexperienced players who go with friends to smashfests tend to play amongst themselves. When they feel ready they can ask if they can join in with the better players.

 

[Nintendude]

I think something very important is making tournaments more inviting. Scrubs don't want to go to a tourney, pay $20 for venue and entry, and then lose 2 sets in a row. If more tourneys, ESPECIALLY locals, had pools, then worse players would have more of an incentive to go. Not only do pools guarantee a decent amount of tournament matches, but it let's people play people with a wider variety of skill level and it also builds camaraderie within the pool, which helps retain people in the community.

Pools also remove bias for seeding in local tournaments. When outsiders see players getting seeded based on reputation it gives off the impression of a group of friends (the veterans) ignoring the outsiders (newcomers). Not very inviting at all.

Rather than focusing on getting people totally new to Smash, which is very unlikely because Brawl exists, we should be focusing on retaining those players who are just getting into it. A lot of these people are the scrubs I mentioned who show up to 1 or 2 locals then quit, but they also include Brawl players. Brawl is a huge pool of untapped potential Melee players and again, by being more inviting (pools), there's a better chance of getting these players.

Tourneys also need more exposure. A lot of local tourney series stay within a thread dedicated to that series, but what happens is nobody outside of the region finds out about them (and sometimes even people in the region don't find them). I'm not saying that these should be posted in the main tournament board; rather, their results should always be posted in the results thread. This makes even local tourneys more hype and players may look at the results and say to themselves "wow this looked awesome I really wanna go to the next one."

So yeah, pools and tourney results. Time for TOs to stop being lazy.

 

[Untrust Us]

I think something very important is making tournaments more inviting. Scrubs don't want to go to a tourney, pay $20 for venue and entry, and then lose 2 sets in a row. If more tourneys, ESPECIALLY locals, had pools, then worse players would have more of an incentive to go. Not only do pools guarantee a decent amount of tournament matches, but it let's people play people with a wider variety of skill level and it also builds camaraderie within the pool, which helps retain people in the community.

Pools also remove bias for seeding in local tournaments. When outsiders see players getting seeded based on reputation it gives off the impression of a group of friends (the veterans) ignoring the outsiders (newcomers). Not very inviting at all.

Rather than focusing on getting people totally new to Smash, which is very unlikely because Brawl exists, we should be focusing on retaining those players who are just getting into it. A lot of these people are the scrubs I mentioned who show up to 1 or 2 locals then quit, but they also include Brawl players. Brawl is a huge pool of untapped potential Melee players and again, by being more inviting (pools), there's a better chance of getting these players.

Tourneys also need more exposure. A lot of local tourney series stay within a thread dedicated to that series, but what happens is nobody outside of the region finds out about them (and sometimes even people in the region don't find them). I'm not saying that these should be posted in the main tournament board; rather, their results should always be posted in the results thread. This makes even local tourneys more hype and players may look at the results and say to themselves "wow this looked awesome I really wanna go to the next one."

So yeah, pools and tourney results. Time for TOs to stop being lazy.

this + my input about more smashfests and perhaps small free tournaments

 

[Ministry]

I like the idea. Free tournaments are great with some sort of material prize for first second and third. (a game,subscription,controller,lessons from mango).

Another thing that prevents newer players from coming, that want to play is controllers. a lot of people dont have gamecube controllers. If players could bring extra to loan(the t.o. could handle lending out controllers) then i think more players would come. Also experienced players need to help and give advice rather then discourage(as mentioned before)

all around i think posters and adds, clubs are great ideas.

good idea hax.

 

[AXE 09]

Here's something that I thought was really awesome.

Apparently this is done in some tourneys in Socal, and we've done it once in Arizona (thanks to Okami) and it worked out pretty nicely. It got more of the new people to want to enter that tournament.

Basically when a tournament is held, every smasher who loses 2 times in a row (so they're the first ones out of the bracket) start another double elimination tournament bracket. So basically it's another tournament bracket with the worst people there, and it guarantees that they can play at least 4 different people in tournament matches. A certain percentage of the overall pot is given to the winner of that newly-created bracket.

I thought it was an awesome idea and it worked out very nicely. What do you all think?

 

[X1-12]

our game is almost a decade old but its still one of the most popular games for kids to play. even kids who don't play smash competitively prefer melee to brawl, which is why i definitely think we could attract crowds of newcomers to our tournaments. tournies like ROM that try to bring melee back are great, but they limit the playerbase to people that have played melee competitively at some point. we could definitely get new generations of players to join the community by doing things as simple as hanging up posters; either outside of the venue tournies are held, or even on the streets. this is one of many ways we could advertise

what do you guys think

instead of Revival of melee it should have be called

MELEE NEVER DIES




on another note I think posters outside games stores and things would help, as well as around shools or univerisites or colleges.

 

[Lovage]

Here's something that I thought was really awesome.

Apparently this is done in some tourneys in Socal, and we've done it once in Arizona (thanks to Okami) and it worked out pretty nicely. It got more of the new people to want to enter that tournament.

Basically when a tournament is held, every smasher who loses 2 times in a row (so they're the first ones out of the bracket) start another double elimination tournament bracket. So basically it's another tournament bracket with the worst people there, and it guarantees that they can play at least 4 different people in tournament matches. A certain percentage of the overall pot is given to the winner of that newly-created bracket.

I thought it was an awesome idea and it worked out very nicely. What do you all think?

this is a nice idea, all the people that go 0-2 or 1-2 can enter the amateur bracket for free, which takes a very small percent from the overall pot (which they already paid for) and pays out to probably only to the winner.

this is especially good in large regions like socal where we have a lot of noobies

 

[Spank That Dill]

Melee having it's own G4 would be the greatest thing ever, and it would encourage a lot of people to play. If only one of us smashers was super rich.

Starting small smashfests at places like school I believe is a great start and the local community can grow from there. I'm trying to start one at my school.

I think a major problem is that a lot of noobs wouldn't go to one because they're afraid they'll get beat and laughed at. What people need to understand about smash is that it isin't like Halo or COD, If you lose at smash, the winner should help you get better, not laugh or anything rude like that.

Melee will never die

OMFG, this x1000. The Halo guys that live in my area are such douchebags. I went to a tournament locally (hoping to get better, my skill level is in the low 40s, for anyone who plays Halo out there) and they were all like "get outta here kid, you're a random and you suck." I honestly have no idea how anyone could want to play a game with people that are so arrogant. Smash has these people too, but I barely ever see them, and the ones that are like that are generally not liked a whole lot.

 

[Dogysamich]

...AWWW YOU KNEW THE WALL WAS COMIN, DONT ACT LIKE YOU DIDN'T KNOW THE WALL WAS COMIN FOR YA LOLOLOLOL [/jokes]

Ok I said I was going to avoid this topic cause I get s*** on everytime I try to help and everytime I try to prove a point, but stupid is as stupid does, right?

___

Hax, answer this question, and answer it HONESTLY.

What is the draw to play a 10 year old game where

1) the game is one where "you can't really be good without putting forth alot of effort" (One of melee's "big selling points" compared to brawl)

2) the outings (read: tourneys) are generally exclusive. (Melee, or Melee/Brawl tourneys)

3) There is a newer game in the line. Said game is much more accessible, has much more publicity, and, to some degree, has a small hole to lead to other games.

4) People can see the growth and potential for other games that are "loosely related" to it, but have to dig to find anything about melee itself. (Not to mention what they normally DO find, IF they find something.)

___

for the love of God, please dont try to put words in my mouth and make it sound like I'm trying to say "Dont try to promote the game."

It's nothing like that at all, as I try my part down here to, again, just get s*** on by both sides of it.

But you really have to look at what you're trying to push, and how melee has presented itself in the past compared to games of today.

___

Lemme break it down more.

You really have three main groups that you can pull new people from, but there's no REAL draw for them to join.

1) Brawl players. *Why would a Brawl player even DREAM of playing melee now?

-I'm not even going to talk about game vs game.

-Brawl leads to way more opportunity than Melee does. It's backed by a major circuit (MLG), and, for better or worse, is included in a variety of heavily promoted events (Fighting Game Majors, gimmicky stuff like that galaxy4gamers, etc etc).

-While melee "is big" (that's subjective btw), look at WHERE it's big? Melee exclusive tourneys.

*Again, I really don't have to argue game vs game, where all I'd have to say is "the only real fault brawl has that anybody can argue is tripping. Everything else drops to preference."

2) People from other

Spoiler

fighting

game communities. *Melee is highly exclusive, dead-end, and has a bad rep.

-I put it like that because while you could really say from ANY other community, if they don't play a fighter, they might as well fit into category 3.

-I'll save the text and just make this statement.

(Before MvC3 was announced), what was the purpose of wanting to pick up MvC2? The game is played on a system that's hard to come by, which requires hardware that's hard to come by. The game itself is built around strats and techs that are common in that game only (in large, and to the untrained eye). Getting in means having to fight with people who've literally GROWN UP with the **** game, so they know it like the back of their hand. And should you get good at it, where can you take your skills and go? Nowhere, because nothing else (again, in large and to the untrained eye) works like the game.

3) Brand New Players *There're newer games out that are easy (and easier) to get into*

-... I mean, I could go on and on about this one, but all I really have to do for starters is point back up to the last 2 groups.

-And the whole argument about "work and merit" from melee compared to anything else (sadly, this includes brawl), is again, subjective.

____

Again, I'm not saying don't try. I try myself to some degree. I'm just sharing my insight on this because I've tried enough and I've actually stopped to ask people what they DONT like about the game and have gotten real honest feedback.

My point in this is that you gotta understand that melee is not "the greatest game ever created". There's just no other way around it. So one thing that kills the promotion real quick is when you try to make it sound like it is.

[/rant]

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

^ all that said, I know that there are new people who are getting into melee for the first time.

(and yeah, I know you didnt say that there werent any)

 

[Dogysamich]

*nods* Same here.

I've actually sat down with 2D fighter player from ATL and tried to walk him through a few possible stick setups for smash (melee and brawl).

Like, he plays on stick, and absolutely hates GC controllers (dont blame him), and asked me "would it be possible to mod a stick to play melee?" Default answer in my mind is "N**** wtf kinda question is that", but i actually tried to think about it, cause not being able to use a stick is actually a common reason why people from other communities don't bother with smash. So like, I sat down with him and talked through some things.

Honestly, the only thing that comes to my mind that makes this impossible is having to put a c-stick in somewhere.

Beyond that, I'm lollin cause JC shines will be the new wave of the future.

But I atleast tried, and he then proceeded to sit down and play melee and brawl for 'bout an hour or so waiting for the SF4 finals to start up.

___

That's what I'm getting at.

It's not impossible to get people into melee, but I see too many "no-brain melee people" talk about "Just show them wombo combo and they'll love the game."

if only that actually worked. (Sidebar: It'd BLOW YOUR MIND how many people have actually seen the Wombo Combo and either dont care or actually HATE it.)

 

[otg]

(Sidebar: It'd BLOW YOUR MIND how many people have actually seen the Wombo Combo and either dont care or actually HATE it.)

real talk.

 

[D1]

I for one know, that even though what Dogysamich says is true....if we held more fests and had them more open to new players, instead of having exclusive "intermediate to pro-level" fests all the time, we might have better results. I know a college in NYC where there was a small group of players that always had smashfests almost every week, and even though at first they weren't up there in terms of skill, with good players consistently coming by to teach them how to play and always giving them experience in matchups in a year or so they actually became better and love Melee even more because of it.

I think we should just keep having public smashfests to encourage the growth of Melee, I know in NYC I go to ALOT of private smashfests where there's ONLY great players in attendance...there'd barely be a scrub in sight.

We need more fests where anyone and everyone can attend, cuz there are A LOT of underground Melee players JUST BEGGING to play with someone that can help them improve.

We just need to meet them halfway.

 

[a nub]

I'm gonna agree with D1. Maybe I'm biased somewhat due to the fact that I'm 17 and have trouble going to tournies without a ride from my dad, but I do feel like have more fests publicly announced on smashboards instead of keeping it between small groups of good players would help expand the community.

Like near NYC/Westchester for example, the only smashfests I've heard about are kinda exclusive so guys like me can't really get spots. Hell if there some more open smashfests in the area, I alone could get up to 5-7 friends who are interested. Only one, sometimes two of them typically go to tournies with me, mainly because they're afraid of getting owned. They'd feel a lot better about their skills and be more motivated to go to tournies if they could practice with some different people and get tips from the good players.

 

[otg]

I'm gonna agree with D1. Maybe I'm biased somewhat due to the fact that I'm 17 and have trouble going to tournies without a ride from my dad, but I do feel like have more fests publicly announced on smashboards instead of keeping it between small groups of good players would help expand the community.

Like near NYC/Westchester for example, the only smashfests I've heard about are kinda exclusive so guys like me can't really get spots. Hell if there some more open smashfests in the area, I alone could get up to 5-7 friends who are interested. Only one, sometimes two of them typically go to tournies with me, mainly because they're afraid of getting owned. They'd feel a lot better about their skills and be more motivated to go to tournies if they could practice with some different people and get tips from the good players.

I know that when Logik (the other player from yonkers) was coming to our smashfests he kept trying to get you to come out and you never did. I've always held my smashfests to the public, no matter how good or bad people are. As a result I've established really good ties with the people in my community, have created a scene of good players where there was nothing before. Now a lot of the people in my county go to tournies and place well and what not... expecting people who are new to the game to just drop $30+ every weekend and get 2-0ed is NOT productive to attracting new people.

 

[victra♥]

instead of always focusing of tournaments, try hosting regular smashfests. I'm not sure how it is in the states because it seems apparent that you guys have a larger community than we do here in Canada.

Smashfests is also a more sociable setting, so new players can make friends and feel more comfortable around their smash community. I think in the earlier times of a smash player, it doesn't have so much to do with the game (since at that point, you'd be pretty mediocre presumably) but the friends and people you play with.

 

[a nub]

Ok then my fault for that, I shouldn't have made that assumption. I haven't seen sheldon that much lately so I thought it would be kinda **** for me to just show up without saying anything.

But yeah, as for wasting money, that's why lots of fests are important. The newer players can keep going to those to get comfortable with the community and practice until they feel like taking their chances at tournies. Once we can get these guys into the community like this I'm sure we'll start suddenly seeing way more tourney regulars.

 

[PB&J]

i throw smashfest like everyday and i think thats the best way to get people into the game or better at the game if they are rookies..most new comers are scared to go to tournies these days because they see it as a wast of time and money, but if u keep throwing smashfest and inviting the new comers..eventually they will get better and have more motivation to go to more tournies

 

[Dark Hart]

Do people actually have exclusive smashfests? I don't think so. You guys are all dumb. If tourneys are advertised, then new players will come to play smash and meet people. From there you have to get them to attend smashfests.

 

[JPOBS]

its not about the smashfests being intetionally exclusive, but it just ends up being that way sometimes.

but pools is DEFINITELY the way to go for keeping new comers interested. getting a good 4-6 sets in pools feels good to newbies even if they are all 0-2's

 

[Dogysamich]

but pools is DEFINITELY the way to go for keeping new comers interested. getting a good 4-6 sets in pools feels good to newbies even if they are all 0-2's

Here's some food-for-thought on that subject.

While pools give people more of their money's worth in a tourney, think about how much time it adds on?

 

[victra♥]

i don't understand why time is an issue.

Are you speaking in terms of having to worry about scheduling more time for pools as the tournament director?

 

[Dogysamich]

yeah.

Some people dont like pools, although it does make it so EVERYBODY gets their money's worth.