Make Your Move 4

[SparkZ]

I just finished the aerials for Chemistry Man, so I am making good progress. I think that this will be better than my Espeon moveset. What do you think about these changes? No totally random moves, relegating the math equations to a seperate, optional section, adding a Chemist's cookbook section on all of the different compounds you can cook up, organizing it better, and any other ideas that you may have for making it better. Also, I am having a dilemma for the final smash. How do you make an A-bomb balanced?

 

[Baloo]

O2 looks great. Nice mechanic.

And why all the special mechanic hate? Toad will come in last place, he has a ton.

 

[majora_787]

I think the past 19 movesets all had special mechanics.

Anyway, I'll put the ORIGINAL version in the moveset and then I will work on my Redead moveset. =P

I said I would do a Cacturne moveset, but I decided I would do something way better. It's still Cacturne, but I figured I'd make a 3-pokemon tag-team instead. =P

Also, I took King Dodongo off my list. So I only have two movesets prepared for this round's end and next round's beginning. Crud. XD

 

[phatcat203]

Not really hate, Baloo, but the mechanics of a lot of the newer movesets have only been applied to one or two moves, not really worth it. As long as you implement Toad's mechanics fairly well, there shouldn't be a problem.

Sparks: Maybe you could focus on good knockback, but then something like radiation poisoning for the next few stocks? It would work like a Lip flower, but faster, and with the effects of Negative Zone or something. Just a suggestion, though.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I just finished the aerials for Chemistry Man, so I am making good progress. I think that this will be better than my Espeon moveset. What do you think about these changes? No totally random moves, relegating the math equations to a seperate, optional section, adding a Chemist's cookbook section on all of the different compounds you can cook up, organizing it better, and any other ideas that you may have for making it better. Also, I am having a dilemma for the final smash. How do you make an A-bomb balanced?

I'm assuming your last question is a little rhetorical.

Anyway, it looks like you've just been posting previews for every move as you make them up. They look fine so far, but you really don't need to post every single move unless you really are having a problem with something. Save some for the actual moveset; and when you do post it, you'll get your due comments.

@majora: Another tag-team?! *sigh*

@phatcat: Exactly, some "special mechanics" don't seem worth it when they only apply to only a handful of moves. The "special mechanics" that some characters have in Smash go way past just a handful of moves and are intrinsic to the very nature of the character themselves.

 

[SparkZ]

Got it. Although I didn't post the aerials for this one, I will heed your advice.

 

[majora_787]

@majora: Another tag-team?! *sigh*

Well, I THOUGHT it would be better. But I dunno, depends on what research I can get done. It's 50/50 though. Swalot kinda makes it......doubtable...

 

[Baloo]

OK, but something like a set of tilts and smashes while tripped isn't a problem. Or something that is used in at least half the moves?

EDIT: Is there a curse on me? Whenever I post, no one posts for a few years.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Got it. Although I didn't post the aerials for this one, I will heed your advice.

Thanks! Look forward to the rest of the moveset.

Well, I THOUGHT it would be better. But I dunno, depends on what research I can get done. It's 50/50 though. Swalot kinda makes it......doubtable...

I don't mean to be hypocritical, but I also tossed the idea around of doing a three-man tag-team of my favorite Pokemon. XD Don't let me stop you, though! (although bleh, Swalot)

OK, but something like a set of tilts and smashes while tripped isn't a problem. Or something that is used in at least half the moves?

EDIT: Is there a curse on me? Whenever I post, no one posts for a few years.

Ehhh...adding a whole 'nother set of moves for a situational position is pushing it, IMHO. Even if you can put yourself in auto-trip mode. But don't let my random ramblings get in the way of your creativity! By all means, go for it!

 

[The Trophy Master]

Pokey has a little mechanic, he recieves less damage on his body balls and more damage on the head. Not so important. But he also has a problem he shares with Olimar, he cannot do anything without body balls.

The thing that's fun with Pokey is that Mendez was saying not to take too much moves from the actual games, but in the games, Pokey only had 3 moves total, and I used them all. But there's still plenty of original moves out there. Can't wait for it to be finished. BTW, there's a special section : Head Form. Because when in Head Form ( no body balls ), Pokey gets only 4 moves and is a lot weaker.

About the mechanic debate, I think we can put some little changes to a character mechanic, but nothing really big like a character which always fly and cannot be knocked on the ground.

EDIT : @Baloo : Don't worry about the curse you have, I have the same problem. As soon as I post, it takes 1 or 2 hours before somebody posts again.

 

[phatcat203]

Hah! I broke your curse, Pokey! And was that a shot at Piccolo or another moveset on here(the only other one I can think of is 02)? That's not nice! j/k

And Pokey's mechanic seems okay, because it affects his playstyle, which makes me think you have to be a little cautious so as to not use up his heads too fast or something.

 

[Tanookie]

Mkay, guys, so I have a dilemma: I can't decide which FFIV character to do in MYM5.

Rosa - I <3333 white mages and Rosa, but I'm not sure I can handle making two healers next contest. Still, she is hawt...

Rydia - I've got summoning and black magic to work with here (even some white magic too), but then I've got another choice...

Palom and Porom - These little buggers would be so much fun to play as, you know. Twincasting could be a great mechanic, but I'd still have to deal with the whole White Mage part and I'm afraid of doing a multicharacter set because so many good ones have already been done.

What are your opinions?

 

[The Trophy Master]

@ Tanookie : Palom & Poron, they're awesome!

@ Phatcat : Don't worry, there's a move you can use to get your balls back.

 

[Kholdstare]

@02: Excellent! Your best moveset ever, I think.

Screw it, I'll just do AGK and leave Anon be. I might redo him in MYM6.

Here's a finalized list of my MYM5 plans:

Sir Aaron
Legend of Zelda Bosses
Gary Oak
Spy vs. Spy
The Rejected Cartoons
?????, a joint moveset by ????? and myself.
MYM Meme Man

 

[flyinfilipino]

The Rejected Cartoons

Who does this consist of?

Spoiler

??????????

 

[Tornadith]

Allegretto is going smoothly.

There will be a preview soon!

10hypes

 

[Tanookie]

*Le gasp*

Spade....I think I know who your secret moveset is!!! If I PM you with my guess, will you tell me if I'm right or not?

 

[Twilight-Emblem]

Do Rydia, she's pretty much the second or third most important main character in the game.

In other news, I'm almost done with Crono, but I'm considering waiting until MYM5 to post him to go with Robo, Ayla, and Marle. It would give me more time to work on fine-tuning the mechanics and knockback and such.

Still trying to catch up on all the movesets, but almost there and using the template that Sirkibble used on Frog for Crono.

 

[phatcat203]

It's official, my internet phails...don't worry though, I saved Vergil this time. But I'm going to let my computer cool down until tomorrow. I'll still post, but nothing too big or taxing on my computer.

 

[Kholdstare]

Who does this consist of?

Spoiler

??????????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7SXEWbmOw

 

[SkylerOcon]

I'm not sure if Lionheart posted this in here himself or not (I don't want to have to look though five-pages to check for a post by him), but his internet has officially been disconnected. So, he shouldn't be on for about a week...

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7SXEWbmOw

I think RupeeClock made a video for NewGrounds which had the audio from the bleeding scene in it. I'll post a link later.

EDIT: YouTube

<_<

>_>

I'll try to get to my 8th chapter today.

 

[goldwyvern]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7SXEWbmOw

pleeeease use the billy's balloon video in the related videos there.

 

[Akiak]

I wrote the backstory, mechanics, and stats of Paint Roller, but hit "Don't Save" by mistake

You know how many mechanics he has? 3. Yes, 3.

About the mechanic discussion, I think, if the special mechanic feels nice and fits the character if you imagine him in Brawl, then add it. But if you just squish something in just to make your character cool, that's no good.

YTP FTW!

Luckily thats not a problem for Paint Roller. I deeply feel these mechanics are a good idea.

 

[Red Arremer]

I think the past 19 movesets all had special mechanics.

Aeon had no special mechanic. Just oddly working Specials.

*Le gasp*

Spade....I think I know who your secret moveset is!!! If I PM you with my guess, will you tell me if I'm right or not?

Sure, go ahead.

 

[KingK.Rool]

I had no idea so many people felt this way about mechanics. Hell, pretty much everyone reacted negatively to 02's. Mendez, what have you wrought???

I'd like to just reiterate my point of view; special mechanics are NOT necessarily bad, just like they're not necessarily good. Some are not practical, true, and others are needlessly complicated (Grimer is guilty as charged), but they add some spice to the moveset and spruce up attacks which would otherwise be dull. That doesn't mean tack them on because you want to have one, but implement one if:

A) The character needs it to be interesting.
B) It suits the character to a T.
C) You already thought up a simple YET interesting one that could fit.

For an (off the top of my head, I'm bound to be biased) example of A, take Electrode. How boring would that have been without some sort of mechanic to make the, well, spinning attacks more interesting? A secondary example could be Peter Pan; the character doesn't really do much other than swing around his dagger, the flying mechanic really let him take off.

A recent example of B would be Shadow Beast; that mechanic is absolutely perfect for the character and makes the whole moveset feel more genuine.

And for an example of C... since I can't speak for anyone else, take my Headless Horseman. Tossing his own head around like that may not be entirely specific to character. He has plenty of capacity for interesting attacks without it. But I put it in anyway, because it's a good idea. Yes?

Anyway, that's how I look at it. Variety is the spice of life, and a unique mechanic WILL help your cause. In the end, we're not game designers (I'm not, anyway), and 95% of our ideas would need severe tweaking to be implemented. And what's wrong with that? This is a theoretical exercise, we're allowed to push the boundaries of what's possible in Smash. The day Sakurai asks me to actually design a character for him, I'll lose the special mechanics and give him Jafar or something. Until then, I'll opt for creativity every time.

Just my... long two cents.

 

[majora_787]

(although bleh, Swalot)

But don't let my random ramblings get in the way of your creativity! By all means, go for it!

Trust me, if I only do Cacturne then it's entirely Swalot's fault. I don't like the sound of entering him at ALL. He just doesn't look right no matter how I picture him.

But yeah, I'm suspending the moveset to next round. I'll try to get my Redead moveset done this month, though. TRY. If I don't get halfway done by next week then I'm postponing all movesets until MYM5 and will only tweak previous ones.

@Spade: Really? No mechanic? Oh well....Uhm, 18. 18 movesets.

EDIT: I don't see that much negativity toward 02, it seems I've done pretty well. I won't deny that this COULD be my best moveset ever. I dunno. I'd have to review Ghor and Skull Kid.

 

[Red Arremer]

the flying mechanic really let him take off.

Nice pun there, K.Rool

 

[Baloo]

stuffs

Indeed

Mostly I just go with C, I have a good ideas for a mechanic. Sometimes it gets out of hand (Castform) but sometimes it works quite well.

Some people seem to think that if a mechanic only applies to a few moves, it is bad. But take Bubblun. His bubble mechanic literally only uses one attack, and applies to only the throws and grab. But, he has very few KO moves, while his bubbles are very good at racking up damage and KOing. Thus, it's balanced. It doesn't need to apply to a bunch of moves to be good, it just needs to fit.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'd like to just reiterate my point of view; special mechanics are NOT necessarily bad, just like they're not necessarily good. Some are not practical, true, and others are needlessly complicated (Grimer is guilty as charged), but they add some spice to the moveset and spruce up attacks which would otherwise be dull. That doesn't mean tack them on because you want to have one, but implement one if:

A) The character needs it to be interesting.
B) It suits the character to a T.
C) You already thought up a simple YET interesting one that could fit.

The "special mechanics" that I don't like are the ones that only apply to a handful of moves. Let's look at Brawl for example: Lucario's Aura affects all of his moves (doesn't it?); The Ice Climbers' duo mechanic just augments their attack strength (and their recovery, though I must admit that some people pull off the duo thing well), and Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon's stamina affects the whole character, and not just a handful of his/her moves.

So you're right, K. Rool, not all "special mechanics" are bad, and not all "special mechanics" need to be simple enough for Smash Bros. as we know it (because for all we know, SSB4 could come up with something crazier). If a character isn't interesting, its attacks should be what give it "life", otherwise a "special mechanic" will get tacked on and the attacks will still be dull. Moves that are unique or do something unique are cool. The other two points I agree with, but there is a certain range that people can step out of when applying them to certain "special mechanics".

In short, if your character needs to have a "special mechanic" to make it interesting or define it, then it should should suit the character and affect more than just a handful of its moves, or affect the whole character. In other words, don't half-@s$ it.

Ehh, that's my two cents.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

I had no idea so many people felt this way about mechanics. Hell, pretty much everyone reacted negatively to 02's. Mendez, what have you wrought???

I'd like to just reiterate my point of view; special mechanics are NOT necessarily bad, just like they're not necessarily good. Some are not practical, true, and others are needlessly complicated (Grimer is guilty as charged), but they add some spice to the moveset and spruce up attacks which would otherwise be dull. That doesn't mean tack them on because you want to have one, but implement one if:

A) The character needs it to be interesting.
B) It suits the character to a T.
C) You already thought up a simple YET interesting one that could fit.

For an (off the top of my head, I'm bound to be biased) example of A, take Electrode. How boring would that have been without some sort of mechanic to make the, well, spinning attacks more interesting? A secondary example could be Peter Pan; the character doesn't really do much other than swing around his dagger, the flying mechanic really let him take off.

A recent example of B would be Shadow Beast; that mechanic is absolutely perfect for the character and makes the whole moveset feel more genuine.

And for an example of C... since I can't speak for anyone else, take my Headless Horseman. Tossing his own head around like that may not be entirely specific to character. He has plenty of capacity for interesting attacks without it. But I put it in anyway, because it's a good idea. Yes?

Anyway, that's how I look at it. Variety is the spice of life, and a unique mechanic WILL help your cause. In the end, we're not game designers (I'm not, anyway), and 95% of our ideas would need severe tweaking to be implemented. And what's wrong with that? This is a theoretical exercise, we're allowed to push the boundaries of what's possible in Smash. The day Sakurai asks me to actually design a character for him, I'll lose the special mechanics and give him Jafar or something. Until then, I'll opt for creativity every time.

Just my... long two cents.

*Bows down to K.Rool*

Epic post is epic.

 

[majora_787]

*Bows down to K.Rool*

Epic post is epic.

I'd have to agree there. But yeah, I THINK I followed those rules with 02. Not sure. I TRIED, at least. But it's one of my firsts.

Skull Kid was my first entry, Ian was my first custom, Death Sword was my first boss remake, Kiba & Akamaru was my first team character, and now 02 is my first character with a special mechanic.

Actually, remembering back to Ian and Ramses, I never had a picture for those movesets. Well I DO have pictures NOW.

I would so re-do all of those previous movesets, but I could never garauntee 5 or fewer identical moves.

 

[kitsuneko345]

I'd like to just reiterate my point of view; special mechanics are NOT necessarily bad, just like they're not necessarily good. Some are not practical, true, and others are needlessly complicated (Grimer is guilty as charged), but they add some spice to the moveset and spruce up attacks which would otherwise be dull. That doesn't mean tack them on because you want to have one, but implement one if:

A) The character needs it to be interesting.
B) It suits the character to a T.
C) You already thought up a simple YET interesting one that could fit.

I'm bound to be biased

Don't worry... I'm going to be Biased as well!!!

To me, the best moveset that had all three of the implements was MY Plusle and Minun in MYM 3 (K.Rool, don't diasagree that Delibird was better) . For part A, Even though that only 1/4 the moves implement the mechanic fully and another 1/4 use the mechanic even if it's not necessary, those moves are interesting to say the least. For Part B, In their games, P&M's specail ability work very well in double teams, and as a Ice Climber-like character, it truly works for them. For Part C, the mechanic is somewhat simple enough in smash standards (distance from each other determines their power) yet it's interesting and gives the character different stragegies.

Those are MY short two cents.

 

[Deleted member]

K.Rool made a point in saying that a special mechanic is neither inherently good or bad, which I would like to address. No user should feel the need to include a 'speciality' such as a mechanic simply because they feel the moveset is not decent enough without it, the thing needs to be appropriate and fitting.

In essence, a good mechanic character should be born out of the mechanic, it should be integral to it. Of course, any well-made speciality is welcome, but there are plenty of crap ones to go with them, which is pretty much the problem.

 

[Junahu]

I consider MYM to be more about entertaining your audience than it is about accuracy or viability. A well crafted Special Mechanic can hold a person's attention in a way that more poe faced approaches cannot.

And Special Mechanics don't have to be complex. Dumbing it down can be just as effective as a tarting it up.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

And Special Mechanics don't have to be complex. Dumbing it down can be just as effective as a tarting it up.

Yes, thank you Junahu! This is something everyone should drill into their heads. A mechanic doesn't need to be complicated to be good. If anything, I'm more in support of "simple but effective".

I mean, look at my self-insert's dynamo mechanic; I included a load of things to make it easy to understand, such as an on-screen indicator of how much energy you have, and making all of the required amounts of energy in basic increments so that you're never wondering if you have enough energy to do want you want

 

[KingK.Rool]

Nice pun there, K.Rool

Nice catch, Spade! I do love my puns.

The "special mechanics" that I don't like are the ones that only apply to a handful of moves. Let's look at Brawl for example: Lucario's Aura affects all of his moves (doesn't it?); The Ice Climbers' duo mechanic just augments their attack strength (and their recovery, though I must admit that some people pull off the duo thing well), and Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon's stamina affects the whole character, and not just a handful of his/her moves.

So you're right, K. Rool, not all "special mechanics" are bad, and not all "special mechanics" need to be simple enough for Smash Bros. as we know it (because for all we know, SSB4 could come up with something crazier). If a character isn't interesting, its attacks should be what give it "life", otherwise a "special mechanic" will get tacked on and the attacks will still be dull. Moves that are unique or do something unique are cool. The other two points I agree with, but there is a certain range that people can step out of when applying them to certain "special mechanics".

In short, if your character needs to have a "special mechanic" to make it interesting or define it, then it should should suit the character and affect more than just a handful of its moves, or affect the whole character. In other words, don't half-@s$ it.

Ehh, that's my two cents.

So the main thing you disagree with is A, yes? I'll address that in reply to Daddy.

You also mention mechanics that only affect a few attacks. I see where you're going with this, not tacking them on and whatnot, but using a twist in moderation can still work out, I think, as long as it's more than just an afterthought. It's like kit mentions; Plusle and Minun didn't use their mechanic on all their attacks, and that moveset was obviously well-liked, it placed tenth.

*Bows down to K.Rool*

Epic post is epic.

Thank you, HR. You may rise now.

I'd have to agree there. But yeah, I THINK I followed those rules with 02. Not sure. I TRIED, at least. But it's one of my firsts.

For 02, I think that mechanic's okay. It's interesting and not too complex (C) as well as sprucing up the moveset as a whole (A)

To me, the best moveset that had all three of the implements was MY Plusle and Minun in MYM 3 (K.Rool, don't diasagree that Delibird was better) .

Delibird was better. I still can't forgive everyone for not voting it higher.

Seriously, though, Plusle and Minun is a great example of a mechanic being implemented perfectly. Just ask Mendez, even he loved it, I believe it's his favourite moveset in the whole contest!

K.Rool made a point in saying that a special mechanic is neither inherently good or bad, which I would like to address. No user should feel the need to include a 'speciality' such as a mechanic simply because they feel the moveset is not decent enough without it, the thing needs to be appropriate and fitting.

In essence, a good mechanic character should be born out of the mechanic, it should be integral to it. Of course, any well-made speciality is welcome, but there are plenty of crap ones to go with them, which is pretty much the problem.

I guess I should elaborate on this...

I'm currently working on this fellow here:

He's a generic Kirby enemy. All he does in the game is swing his axe and throw it Sir Kibble style. His body shape, abilities, and weapon of choice don't really lend themselves to anything remotely interesting in the way of individual attacks.

How should I make him into an interesting moveset, then? By installing an overarching mechanic that makes even bland attacks worthwhile. Obviously, this needs to have some thought put into it, it can't just be some random thing that pops into my head. But the fact remains that it simply won't be a fun moveset if I just make the individual attacks creative.

And why should the reason and the execution be the same? Whether you add it because it comes to mind as soon as you think of the character, or you add it because the moveset will need it, if you pull it off right, no one can tell the difference. I refer you again to Electrode, which, from its good reception, I'd assume didn't put anyone off with its mechanic.

So yeah. Just putting my thoughts out there some more. I'm a bit too argumentative these days.

@ Junahu: Well said. The second point, specifically, is something I think a lot of people miss. The best mechanics are the simple ones. That's why I don't find Kawasaki to be my favourite of my movesets (gasp, heresy!)

 

[Kholdstare]

pleeeease use the billy's balloon video in the related videos there.

LOL, yeah, I will.

I think I'll chip in my two cents. I like special mechanics as long as they fit the character, would make the character better, and are not too complicated. Take for example, Daroach. His special mechanic totally fits him, since he's a leader and all. It's not too complicated, and lends him a totally unique playstyle. It makes normal moves much more interesting, while it can have its flaws. It's how the character should be played.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I wasn't aware there was another Wander moveset, though. I'll look for it when I get the chance. (Maybe I shouldn't, it could tempt me to steal ideas...)

Actually it seems I've been struck by a sudden bout of stupidity.

In MYM3, truendymion had been planning on making a Wander 'set for a while, but eventually scrapped it and did Ganondorf instead. So that explains why I found it so bad I couldn't remember it--because there wasn't anything there to remember in the first place.

Pokey has a little mechanic, he recieves less damage on his body balls and more damage on the head. Not so important. But he also has a problem he shares with Olimar, he cannot do anything without body balls.

The thing that's fun with Pokey is that Mendez was saying not to take too much moves from the actual games, but in the games, Pokey only had 3 moves total, and I used them all. But there's still plenty of original moves out there. Can't wait for it to be finished. BTW, there's a special section : Head Form. Because when in Head Form ( no body balls ), Pokey gets only 4 moves and is a lot weaker.

Yeah, that's alright. I got no beef with that--this whole argument loses a lot of weight when it's applied to a character with such a limited pool of moves to pull from.

Mach Rider was the same for me--all he does in his games is drive fast, faster, really fast, or even-faster-than-that...and shoot. Oh, and explode when he dies. So I worked those last two in as special moves, and the speed thing in as a mechanic.

Mkay, guys, so I have a dilemma: I can't decide which FFIV character to do in MYM5.

Rosa - I <3333 white mages and Rosa, but I'm not sure I can handle making a moveset for such a weak female lead.

Rydia - I've got summoning and black magic to work with here (even some white magic too), so I think I'll just do this one.

Palom and Porom - These little buggers are annoying.

What are your opinions?

...On what? Seems like you've got this pretty well worked out.

 

[Kholdstare]

Hey Chief, what do you think of my Shadow Beast moveset?