• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Make Your Move 25: Moveset Design Contest — Contest is Donezo! MYM 26 Starts March 17th!

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,260
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513
A note about my star rankings: The descriptions are just to give you an idea about what it might contain and shouldn't be considered gospel truth that all sets within have all elements of it. Mostly, consider what the numbers mean. 10 is best, 0 is worst, 5 is average, 6 above average etc

Star Rating Explanation​

- 10 Stars (4 Ranked): The coveted position at the top of my rankings, given to my favorite sets of the contest, the "best" tiers! 10 star represents the best movesets, a blend of strong playstyle, excellent execution, cool concepts and top notch characterization. Often times, the difference between a 10 star or a 9 star is a personal feeling in finding something truly exceptional, or a perfect blend of all of a moveset's parts. On average, about one 10 star is given out each contest, but as many as three (MYM15/MYM21/MYM23) have been given out and one contest (MYM19) lacked any. So there's no hard limits here! Take the napkin first and reach for the top!

- 9 Stars (11 Ranked): A step below 10 star is 9 star, these sets still represent some of the best that Make Your Move has to offer, and thus hit the "top" tier. The qualities of these sets are pretty close to a 10 star. They have tight knit and strong playstyles, they have TAS-level execution and so on, but they have just a few too many problems to get higher, such as a bit too much balance worry, perhaps lackluster character or just simply not quite having as much "exceptional" factor. 9 star sets will almost always find their way into my Super Vote List: If 9 stars end up not making it on, you know we have a truly wonderous contest going on!

- 8 Stars (8 Ranked): The "Great" tier of sets that rests below the highest tiers, these usually have a more acutely placable issue such as a weak concept, iffy execution at some parts (perhaps even an entire input section) or weak characterization but placed along a rest of the set that is strong enough to make up for it and still get it high. Or, alternately, they may be sets which are fairly strong in all areas but have nothing jump out as extraordinary beyond great. Nonetheless, these are sets worthy of praise, the higher end 8s usually make up my RV+ or snag SVs.

- 7 Stars (22 Ranked): Seven star is where the "good" sets reside. They might not be the best sets ever, but that doesn't make them bad at all, contests and games thrive on having plenty of good sets! These tend to make up the bulk of my RV list, with particularly strong contests causing the bottom of 7 to drop into WV+ or so range. Sets can either be a mix of high highs and more average/low lows, most commonly a strong start that tapers off into a forgettable ending, or a consistent Good quality that just doesn't have enough to get higher. Sets with a lot of good and a lot of bad will also tend to end up in 6 and 5.

- 6 Stars (10 Ranked): "Above average" is 6 star, which makes up the bulk of my WV list (and sometimes low RV) for most of my votelists. They don't exactly speak to me much, but they have enough solid and enjoyable traits to feel stronger than your average set, so they're definitely still worth your time.

- 5 Stars (3 Ranked): Five stars is "average". It's hard to describe average, but that's what it is, something in the middle that I don't find especially good or bad, such as a moveset with a little good and a little bad, a general moveset that doesn't do anything offensive, or something with such large drops between good and bad that I can't get behind it either way. These sets are the last of sets that get votes from me, snagging WVs but being the first to drop off as more sets get on.

- 4 Stars (3 Ranked): Four stars are the "below average" mark. These sets aren't terribly bad or anything, but they've gotten to the point I dislike more than I like, either due to a noticeable failing in one or more areas without enough good to back up or just a general sense of underperformance across the entire set. It isn't uncommon to find solid concepts in these sets, though!

- 3 Stars (2 Ranked): Three stars is when we get into "bad". These movesets actively detract from me a good deal and begin to lose redeeming elements, and often contain multiple large issues, such as terrible execution, lacking playstyle and bland or bad characterization, but they aren't repungant enough to be truly awful. Don't be too upset, though, if you get a set this low or lower: Everyone, including myself, makes some stinkers after all!

- 2 Stars (4 Ranked): When we get to Two Star, we go to "awful", sets that have numerous issues that either run deep and so are more difficult to fix or are so overwhelming they smother a set even if there's other parts I like. Sets with essentially no details, such as one sentence moves for the entire set, end up either here, 1 or 3 star usually. Sets here aren't quite horrible enough for lower categories (think of it like a nega-8 star) but are getting fairly bad.

- 1 Star (3 Ranked): One star is like the dark, negative version of a 9 star. Where 9 star zigs into an incredible playstyle, a 1 star zags into an incoherent one. When a 9 star puts across a great characterization, a 1 star makes the cute powerless schoolgirl into an evil monster with the morality of Hannibal Lecter. Don't worry, everyone makes mistakes...it is just this set is one of them! Also proud home to sets that do "nothing", like 1 sentence sets without damage percents or any other information.

- 0 Star (0 Ranked): Introduced in MYM22 is the 0 Star Ranking, which I'd considered adding before. It makes 5 star the perfect "average" rather than the 5.5 of a 1-10 ranking. Congrats, if you hit 0 star, you made a "meme"! These are sets that go beyond mere loathing entirely and enter a truly special pantheon of bad. Think sets like MYM13 Medic, MYM12 Etranger or MYM15 PC-98 Reimu, where a set fails on every possible level and beyond merely being bad. And if you're wondering yes, I have made sets I consider to be 0 star worthy, so don't think I'm immune to being this awful. On the plus side, 0 star sets often gain a lot of fame due to the status that makes them 0 star, so they're a successful legend in their own way.

---

Ranked Movesets

Number of MYM25 Sets Ranked: 70


Oono Tsukuyo
**********
10/10


Sleaze
**********
10/10


Remilia Scarlet
**********
10/10


Berkeley and Cartwright
**********
10/10


Kuda Izuna
*********
9/10


Crewmate
*********
9/10


Elder Princess Shroob
*********
9/10


Goro Akechi
*********
9/10


Witchcrafter Madame Verre
*********
9/10


Miruca Crotze
*********
9/10


Jodie Reynolds
*********
9/10


Alex
*********
9/10


Valkyrie
*********
9/10


Kosaka Wakamo
*********
9/10


Tsukumo Sana
*********
9/10


Cranky Kong
********
8/10


O. Dio
********
8/10


Hikaru
********
8/10


Sam Fisher
********
8/10


Joey Operetta
********
8/10


The Baseball Boys
********
8/10


Ode Iou
********
8/10


Kanade
********
8/10


Kula Diamond
*******
7/10


Meltryllis
*******
7/10


Mad Dog
*******
7/10


Jacky Bryant
*******
7/10


Shadow Mario
*******
7/10


Hat Kid
*******
7/10


Adramelech
*******
7/10


Goddess Ilias
*******
7/10


Light Yagami
*******
7/10


Saul Goodman
*******
7/10


Venom Strange
*******
7/10


Nomad
*******
7/10


Chidori Michiru
*******
7/10


Witchcrafter Haine
*******
7/10


Sam & Max
*******
7/10


Eldlich the Golden Lord
*******
7/10


Mai and Yui
*******
7/10


Asbestos
*******
7/10


Ninon Joubert
*******
7/10


Mrs. Quackfaster
*******
7/10


/v/-tan
*******
7/10


Miracle Matter
*******
7/10


Daisy (Fire Emblem)
******
6/10


Alcohol Witch Daniella
******
6/10


Herminia
******
6/10


Hero Prinny
******
6/10


Wheelie
******
6/10


The Sundown Kid
******
6/10


Baron Mordo
******
6/10


Idar
******
6/10


Taranza
******
6/10


Fire Bar
******
6/10


Alolan Marowak
*****
5/10


Mima
*****
5/10


Mao
*****
5/10


Jo'on and Shion Yorigami
****
4/10


Saint Elimine
****
4/10


Marjoly
****
4/10


Akira Tadokoro
***
3/10


Dark Meta Knight
***
3/10


Shiny Hoppip
**
2/10


Dark Blupi
**
2/10


Giganotosaurus
**
2/10


Two-Face
**
2/10


The Farmer
*
1/10


Apothecary Gary
*
1/10


Blue
*
1/10
 
Last edited:

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
305
Sleaze Almand Almand ***

(Note: I read the long version of this set for completion's sake, so I can't speak to the short version.)

Good to see you back in the game, Almand! ...and saying that makes me realize how long 24 ran, given you did post Hugo somewhat early there. Doesn't seem like it'll be an issue for 25 (knock on wood), but that's getting off track. Your sets have always had a refreshingly detailed and grounded mechanical basis even when dipping into stranger concepts like Ditto's, and Sleaze feels like the epitome of that. The set does characterize this odd and otherworldly salesman nicely, focusing on getting him across in animations rather than elaborate walls of text descriptions (hi), and honestly the fact we know so little about him feels like an intentional stylistic choice that works out very well.

Starting off with some nitpicks before I get to gushing, but it took me a bit to parse what Pockets were in the context of the set and realize I hadn't actually missed the explanation until it happened later- you might want to put a very brief summary that they're a construct Sleaze forms via taking variable penalties before landing hits and utilize through his attacks by holding the inputs before going into the nitty gritty of it. There were a few points where it recommends going from the pocketless held inputs into pocket held input as well with notes about it being better with a stronger pocket, and it took me longer to realize how you'd go from none to 'strong' than it should have (set up high sacrifice so your hit racks up a lot of points when you land it), but that one was on me and the former suggestion should prevent any issues of that sort.

My poor reading comprehension aside, Sleaze's core tricks of Pockets and Passages are awesome, and they're explained in a simple to understand way once you get the basic concepts. Needles are really cool, but feel a little under-utilized comparatively; might be good to mention one or two inputs where they'll be nice, but I do feel its own input section nicely sums up a good chunk of the possible uses. The self-imposed penalties you take in the pursuit of getting/empowering Pockets feel like they could be used to some effect in adding to combo options or the like, which might've been neat, but not necessary. There's not a huge amount done with specific angles of Passages, aside from cancels, but I feel that's actually for the best since this keeps the set from going into far too specifically situational detail and instead gives broader stroke important details that help paint a mental picture of the average Sleaze match-up.

Speaking of mental pictures, the animation gifs are greatly appreciated, and the set does well in explaining combo details and interactions with Pockets/Passages. It makes it easy to picture what his bizarre movements look like in practice and how confounding he could be to play against on a surface level while still being well within the realm of reason under the hood. Sleaze goes far to mix very strange powers and set-ups with classic fighting game mechanics and it works out pretty nicely.

To end off on another nitpick for lack of proper criticism I can add to this comment: Up/Down Throw don't specify how to choose the throw angle, I can assume you just move the control stick in the desired direction quickly, but a couple more words wouldn't hurt.



Aloy H happychallahdays ***

Job well done on your first set! Aloy is ambitious as all get out right out of the gate; there's a good few mechanics and tricks- translating both skill trees and her Second Sight mechanic over from her source material, Meter-based special buffs called Valor Surges, a flexible float, many additional inputs, etc, but they're elaborated on concisely and are simple in concept, so it doesn't feel overwhelming to grasp or like it'd be difficult to use in practice. Aloy's complexity would be in execution, knowing how best to build her for a matchup and in general having a high skill ceiling.

There's a decent bit packed into her normals, cut and dry explanations keeping this a very brisk read without sacrificing important details. The set makes some effort to note each move's uses in the context of her game plan and the wider set, giving a nod to combo options where appropriate or when a move is effective for controlling space, 2-framing, etc. I do have an issue in that there's a few points where the set refers to something it does not elaborate on immediately, such as Neutral Aerial's [Purgewater] status, Back Aerial's [Acid] and [Frost] statuses, and Down Tilt not making mention of what her Pullcaster is (something Up Special ends up describing later, but it'd be nice to have a little more of a fluff description for it at its first appearance for those unfamiliar).

The set does explain these statuses, but does so in a glossary placed after the extras- moving the playstyle, definitions, and height comparison sections to before the extras would be my immediate recommendation, as well as a quick note under Purgewater's first mention that bracketed terms are explained later and a quick summary of what each does (I.E. "[Acid] (which does damage over time)", "[Frost] (foes take more precision damage)".

That aside, the set makes the most of its word count and gets its ideas across clearly, though I felt there was one aspect where the set could've benefited from a little more. An issue sets with multiple alternate inputs and mechanics often run into is ensuring the extra all ties together nicely. A nod to when landing a precision damage hit is made easier with a given attack, or when using her Shield Wing to arrest her fall/maneuver would be helpful would be nice. Her spear having a strong tipper and having much later KO percents to the rest of the hitbox's knockback could open some neat spacing or combo opportunities.

Making mention of when the normals play well into the skill set kits and how the slowly accumulating buffs from leveling up the different skill trees benefit each other would be a good glue to keep them together, and the latter would encourage her to switch which skill set she's utilizing during different stocks. Tactician's movement bonus would help Tactician's Up Smash's benefit by letting her set the rope anchors further apart more easily, for example.

I feel I should take a moment to acknowledge Skill Set 4, while I'm here. Machine Master makes up a solid portion of the set thanks to having a wide array of summonable machines, each with multiple unique but simple attacks and downright terrifying payoffs at the higher tiers of summons. There are some balancing touches, with the one minion at a tie limit, the time it takes to summon one, the duration before they turn on Aloy and become a rogue element in the match, and the weapons some drop being usable by foes just as easily as by Aloy, but I have no idea how to balance the varied machines and the particularly high end ones numerically. I do like the touch that she loses her smashes with Machine Master, as it means she can't heavily punish opponents during the moments they contend with her machine summons as she would be able to otherwise.

The information is a bit more sparse in this section by necessity of not ballooning up the word count, but there could stand to be a mention or two or how Aloy can best capitalize on each's presence or what type of opponent it's best against to help differ them. As-is, despite being one of the more involved sections and possibly the coolest conceptually (though I love Tactician's feel), it feels the most disjointed from the rest of the options.

Aloy is a fairly multi-layered set with a lot of cool ideas and an honest effort to encompass everything the character can do and how she feels in her source material. The set feels a bit stretched thin in places as a result where focusing more on a smaller number of tricks might've helped, but all the basics are there for making a good set and it's far better to do a little too much cool stuff than the opposite.

Some quick nitpicks and suggested tweaks:

-About skill point accumulation: "KOes count as a base 120 points; if the KOed enemy was at less than 120% when KOed, Aloy adds the difference in damage towards unlocking her skills. (For example, if Aloy KOes an opponent with an attack, and the opponent was at 70% after the hit, she would gain 150 skill points.)" Shouldn't Aloy gain 170 skill points in that event? (120 base for KO, 120% - 70% = 50, 120 + 50 = 170)

-Forward Aerial should probably have a range limit to keep it from electrocuting the entirely of Final Destination- the hitbox isn't really worryingly strong or anything but I'm paranoid that it might cause some problems somehow with that sort of coverage. I assume it's not strong, at least; the move mentions "The first value is her tipper, the second is the shaft of her spear, and the third is the nimbus.", but only lists two values.

-Back Aerial could stand to have a description of the explosion's size for a frame of reference.

-Warrior Neutral Special could probably have the maximum wait before the Spear returns to Aloy reduced to 3 seconds; still a hefty punishment for poor decisions but not near-certain doom, and works to keep the rank 5 upgrade a little less crazy while still being a properly potent reward.

-Grab doesn't specify how Aloy inputs her throws given she's free to move about and act during it. Grab input + direction?
 
Last edited:

dilliam

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
23
QUAXLY

Quaxly is an fun, brief outing. It's a set with a solid core mechanic that doesn't feel out of place in Ultimate, which when considering that all we know is that it's a Pokemon, it's a water type, and that it's a duck, is very impressive! The Down mechanic is really squeezed for all it's worth here. All the specials connect back to the mechanic in interesting ways, as well as the aptly named Down Smash. I'm also particularly fond of the whirlpool and what it can do with side special and Down patches. Forward smash is fun too, although I am curious as to what it does when/if it goes off stage? It's never clearly stated and I can only assume that the bubble bursts after a set amount of time, as to keep it from carrying foes to the blast zone.

WHEELIE

Positively my favorite set of the night, Wheelie is a perfect example of stretching a core concept to its absolute limit, which is a great refresher between sets that juggle lots of big concepts. I'm a huge fan of Dash, which really captures how the Wheel ability works in Kirby and adds lots of possibilities for movement, something I'm a sucker for in any fighting game. The momentum canceling and other tech you can do out of it with Wheelie's normals and smashes are very well laid out and interesting too. The other specials are much more simple, but not to the set's detriment; as I previously stated the simplicity of it is part of its charm for me. Down special in particular stood out to me among the other three, I enjoyed the possibilities of Spin Canceling and other niche but interesting uses of the move. And last but certainly not least, I loved the fact that Wheelie has lots of possible interactions with allied fighters in team matches. It really makes me think of what Multiversus is setting out to do (and god I'm hoping it succeeds). The prospect of Up Air being used with Whitebeard on board is utterly terrifying to think about though.

THE HEAVY

I think the biggest problem with Heavy in his current state is that there just isn't enough? There's a solid core here that feels appropriate for the character, one you clearly have a lot of appreciation for, but a lot of the moves are very brief to the point of detriment. This set really needs to get into the nitty gritty of what Heavy's kit can do and what it's for beyond "this is an anti-air" and "this is a combo starter." This set should paint a picture of how all the moves interact with each other, basically. Neutral and Down specials are undoubtedly good starts for the set, maybe you could start with describing how these moves affect everything else in the kit.

BLASTOISE

Blastoise is a very good first outing and a fairly solid set even when you remove that angle. The puddle mechanic is simple but fun, boasting the glorious return of wavedashing and adding a lot of creative implementations to the melee and grab game. Side special's Flashed effect was fun too, adding a nice layer to this oppressive heavyweight. Up smash was a personal highlight for me with the lingering hitbox and the ability to threaten platforms. I really do look forward to your future sets, since it's clear you've done your homework on movesetting and know what you're doing, which is more than I can say for my first sets.

BROKEN VESSEL

Broken Vessel is a short, enjoyable, and refreshing set. There's just enough here to make the character interesting, even if it's very brief. The infection bubbles were a personal highlight for me, even if it requires me to understand the dread beast that is math. I was also a very big fan of the backstep special, which added some spice to the melee game. It's the little things that really make this set, like the shield break being a KO state that can also kill opponents very early on. The melee game is thought out very well too, of course. Everything comes together in a very natural and obvious way and I'm a fan of that.
 
Last edited:

Torgo the Bear

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
1,176
Location
Grinding for Maushold Family of Three
NNID
u2outofcontrol
Switch FC
SW-1209-7008-3905
Wolf Witch Veronica
(GolisoPower)

1647913755734.png

Well, this one was pretty interesting! I'm still fairly new to the Witchverse (in fact, this is only the second Witchverse set I've read after Yin) but I can already tell Veronica is a bit more...brutal than all the others. It's a fun idea, and it's executed pretty well in the set.

Now, I have to be honest. while I did quite enjoy this set, I actually found myself not really knowing what to comment on most of the time. I don't know if it had anything to do with me being tired or something, but I just flew right through this thing without really needing to say anything. It was just...a good read. Still, I can say a few brief things:

I liked the wolfpack mechanics, as they added to the aesthetic of being a wolf character. They flow pretty well into the set too, giving her all kinds of really fun combo opportunities. The Lycanthrope form is super brutal and I actually like it a lot, even if it's mildly disturbing sometimes. And I actually think the human and lycanthrope throws were my favorite moves.

Much lesser note, but this set also got me to understand the meaning behind the name of a DuckTales character, so I guess I can thank you for that.
 

ForwardArrow

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
502
Sleaze
Is it just me or is the quality we're getting in the first part of this contest straight up ridiculous? First there was the Shroob, Jodie, and Whitebeard combination on day one, and now Almand is also dropping a very heavy hitter of a set in Sleaze! Sleaze's core mechanic of pockets is a very strong one, as he sacrifices power and defense both by increasing the damage he takes and decreasing what he deals to build up a well of power. Its one he can then bring out as all sorts of fancy "constructs", with simple explosions, tall energy waves at various speeds, lingering AoEs, and even buffs and debuffs setting him up for a ton of variety in how this stored power can come out! This is handled through the Side Special/Down Special and the highly varied ways to unleash Sleaze's debuffs on his standards, aerials, and throws, which come up with a surprising share of exciting applications for all these "constructs" even after they've been introduced. The ability to store power is balanced by a couple things: the extra damage and knockback Sleaze takes for one, but also the dangers of storing power up without using it as it locks Sleaze out of his held Standards/Aerials/Smashes to keep holding onto the pocket forever without activating it. This is a highly useful batch of moves for Sleaze, meaning a big pocket is a reward that has appropriate sacrifice even beyond just the numbers debuffs, but its still perfectly possible for him to have plenty of fun with small pockets and the set is careful to make sure the reward for a big one is very much worth it. Its a great system, one that keeps the set lively the whole way through and had me interested in what every held input was doing.

This is complimented by Sleaze's portals, or pathways, Sleaze has a pretty flawed melee game due to being a giant and slow fighter, but his ability to stretch his long limbs through his portals and cancel his lag adds a lot of depth to it. And that's before we get into pockets, which if you combine them with needles or waves or even the rising puff explosions, the set can get as fancy with its playground setups as even heavy hitting sets from long time MYM contributors. I'm kind of impressed by how far you went on adding little details to the portals applications like prolonging multi-hits, the way slinging foes through them extends the combo potential, and just generally providing a level of detail on the pathways I haven't seen in past portal sets that brings their applications to life in ways I haven't really seen before. It'd probably be enough to carry a set on its own to handle portals like this, but Sleaze is happy to layer it onto an already great core mechanic in a way where the two feel natural together, it makes for some really compelling stuff.

The melee is well thought out and fun, with some big standouts being Held Up Tilt, Held Down Smash, and the Down Special. But there's simpler melee moves I found appealing too, I like the tapped Nair's ability to reduce the size of his hurtbox briefly to give it a bit of practical emphasis in melee, or tapped Uair's ability to be used to boost his movement and travel through pathways in a way that doesn't create any sort of stalling effect. Even the throws, where the set is probably at its least flashy, make good use of pathway. There's stuff I could complain about, a few inputs out of 60-70 just felt like "another long poke", and I'm a little worried about his viability with how much of his set is slow and clunky and he's not left with as many ways to mitigate that as you'd hope. With all the extra inputs and range he does have enough stuff to probably hold his own, but it does worry me that he might just get rolled by a fast character spamming him down with fast attacks where his only recourse is basically just Down Special. Still, I see why the set is balanced the way it is with how astronomically powerful the rewards of a big, well placed pocket can be and the amount of extra inputs he has to work with, so it doesn't knock off too many points.

This set is basically the Almand set I've always wanted, emphasizing both your high technical prowess and enjoyment of unorthodox sandbox playstyles, and its extremely impressive its come out this early in your career. I haven't even gone into my appreciation of the strong animations and characterization, Sleaze just giving the vibe of "we added this character to our fighting game not because he meaningfully fits into the lore, but because everyone on the design team thinks he's sick" in the best way possible. Maybe its something not everyone will appreciate as much as I did, but this is a fantastic outing from you Almand, I firmly believe this set has everything it needs to compete in the big leagues.
 

Torgo the Bear

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
1,176
Location
Grinding for Maushold Family of Three
NNID
u2outofcontrol
Switch FC
SW-1209-7008-3905
Wheelie
(bubbyboytoo)

1648066611452.png

This was quick and entertaining! A good effort for making a set for a character that really doesn't have much going for it (even less so than Quaxly, really). I definitely enjoyed how the Dash and Wheelie Rider mechanics worked. It got a bit repetitive sometimes, but I guess that's too be expected when there's really not much you can do with a sentient tire. I guess I don't really have too much else to say about this one...but I did like it!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
JAMCON 25-1

Jamcons are a monthly mini-competition where MYM'ers write up a set under a chosen "theme" within a 4-day period: starting from 3PM PST and ending on Sunday that same time. Once the submission period is over, MYM'ers have 2 weeks to read and comment all of the entries, after which they can nominate their favourite entry. The entry that receives the most votes wins! The winner then picks the theme for the next Jamcon.
  • The set needs to be serious, not a joke entry or missing inputs on purpose.
  • Commenting and nominating a set is recommended, especially if you participated yourself.
  • To encourage commenting, anyone who nominates will receive a 0.5 point voter bonus on their Jamcon entries. Jamcon nominations count as 1 point. Nominating a set can mean the difference between a tie and a win!
  • Major edits are not allowed until the Jamcon competition is finished. Minor edits like grammar, number-crunching, presentation or adding pictures or even extras are still allowed.
  • Multiple Jamcon entries are allowed!
  • Joint sets between more than one setmaker are allowed! Team up with someone to finish your entry quicker!
  • You can use a pre-existing "skeleton" as the base for a Jamcon set: intro, presentation, move images, Final Smash and even extras are allowed to be done before or after the Jamcon. Only the stats and usual 23 moves (Specials, Standards, Smashes, Aerials and Grabs + Throws) need to be done during the Jamcon.

Jamcon 25-1's theme is...


A L T E R N A T E


  • The most literal interpretation of "alternate" is an alternate version or copy of an existing character. For example, Saber Alter is a Lawful Evil version of the Lawful Good Saber.
  • Smash has several characters with alternate versions: Paper Mario, Metal Sonic, Liquid Snake and Solidus Snake, Pikachu clones like Togedemaru or Morpheko, Omega or Mecha Ridley, Roxas to Sora or even one of the many incarnations of Link, Zelda or Ganondorf. Even their CDI counterparts are fair game!
  • Fictional characters who serve as an alternate version of a real person or popular fictional character can count. For instance, just about any Servant in the Fate universe, any incarnation of Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Robin Hood and so on.
  • You could even make an "alternate" set for an existing character! For instance, Magneto and Green Goblin got movesets for their movie incarnations in Jamcon 3, but you could make an "alternate" version of them for their TV, video game or comic book counterparts (or a mix of some of all). Heck, literally any character who has gotten a set in MYM qualifies for this, as in you're doing an alternate take on a moveset for a character who already got one. If there's a character who you think should get a much better moveset, like Dio Brando, then by all means go for it.
  • You can also do the reverse: the original version of a character with an alternate form! Black Polnareff is a version of Polnareff who is possessed by the Stand Anubis, so making a set for regular Polnareff would qualify. Another example is Jeanne D’Arc (Alter), whose original would be Jeanne d'Arc. Or Fairy Knight Tristan and Fairy Knight Gawain, who are effectively alternate versions of Tristan and Gawain.
  • Bonus points if your character pick is an alternate or original version of a character you've already made a set for!

Alternate could also be:
  • Alternate realities - a character who comes from or dabbles in alternate realities. If you want to interpret alternate reality as a fantasy world like an anime or JRPG, then go for it.
  • Alternate timelines.
  • A character who has alternate identities. A civilian with a superhero identity, like Clark Kent and Superman.
  • The character could have a move that gives them access to alternate attacks in their moveset.
  • An alternate set of costumes (outfits), like Cloud, Sephiroth, Joker, Shulk, Kazuya and Sora have.
  • A character with alternate forms they cycle through, like Deoxys, a final boss or some character with a transformation ability that is (ideally) a prominent part of their character.
  • Impose an alternate form on your enemy! Turn them into a ghost or a frog. Channel it through the Specials, or even the Final Smash if you want to play it safe.
 
Last edited:

GolisoPower

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
4,316
Blastoise trudged through the marshes, long-since separated from Team Hydro. Ever since these strange Shiinotic lookalikes from the stars arrived, things have fallen quickly to chaos, and so he’s had to travel the globe looking for not just his teammates, but more allies to help him stave off those hordes of aliens.

“Darn mushroom people,” the Turtle Pokemon grumbled as he hobbled through sea and algae alike. “Can’t take a step without running into one of ‘em!” As if to prove his murmurings correct, one of the invaders popped up from behind a tree, ray gun in hand.

Destroy,” it shouted in its garbled tongues before firing. Though it had no effect on the Pokemon’s shell, it just made him even angrier as he fired a large burst of water from one of his cannons that sent it flying, shattering several trees in its wake. Grumbling under his breath, Blastoise continued his trek when he suddenly noticed something strange - stranger than what he was used to, at least.

A sigil lay on the ground, elaborate and looking like it had come from ancient times. He looked down at every detail with great curiosity, also looking in all directions to make sure no more of those garble-mouthed fungus people were around. The sigil didn’t look like anything he knew: nothing, not in his world or the fungi’s, displayed anything like it.

“Hmm…” he mused. “That’s something to tell the boys back home once this is all over.”

Boom…

He whirled around as the earth around him trembled, rocks shaking in place with each earth-shaking beat. He turned around before he saw something completely different from anything he had seen.

A giant magenta dinosaur with red eyes stomped towards the Shellfish Pokemon, looking at him as though it were his next meal. It let out a loud roar to signify it was time for it to eat before it charged towards him.

“Oh, absolutely not,” roared Blastoise, his patience finally at its limit. “I’ve had to deal with way too many of you persistent dirtbags for TOO LONG!”

He readied another large burst of power, ready to utterly decimate the large dinosaur as it opened its maw. Little did he know, however, that the sigil behind him started to grow in power, as though it were responding to his willpower and strength.

“You hungry, you overgrown Drampa, then I hope you bite down on this and choke!”

A massive Hydro Cannon erupted from his two cannons in an attempt to obliterate the monster, but surprisingly, it was slowly powering through it. Blastoise felt like he wasn’t going to make it…until suddenly a flash of light appeared behind him knocking both him and the monster off balance for a moment.

Blastoise looked straight up to find the monster standing still, frozen in place. Though confused at first, he then noticed the most disturbing thing happening: his magenta flesh started dripping from his body. Eventually, the monster became nothing but an indescribable pile of magenta goop that tainted the waters around it, leaving Blastoise in a silent stupor.

“How disgusting,” scoffed a voice behind him, breaking him from his trance. “I really wish I had known what that thing was before I injected it with my virus.”

He whirled around and saw a sight even stranger than before: a young, slender woman with long purple hair and a blue ribbon on her head, ocean blue eyes level with his own. Covering her body was a large black cloak, the sleeves tightened shut over her hands and almost touching the floor. From the waist down was nothing but a metal micro bikini that accentuated her strong, curvaceous hips. But the most intriguing to him was that from the thighs down were silvery metal legs with long knee spikes and massive dark-grey blades where her feet should be.

What in the Distortion World is even going on today, roared Blastoise mentally. “Hey, you!”

The woman looked at Blastoise only to have her face mere inches away from the nozzle on one of his cannons.

“Long day. Out of patience. Start talking,” Blastoise barked, still feeling a lot of tension from the monster encounter.

“Do you really think you’re in a position to threaten me,” she sneered. Surprisingly, she wasn’t even the slightest bit angry. If anything, she felt amused by his threat.

“My cannons can puncture steel like it’s nothing and my shell can take whatever you can hit me with,” he responded, wanting less and less of this hubbub. “So start. Talking. Now.”

The staredown was very intense, to the point where one could hear the very dust wisping through the air. Suddenly, the stranger let out a slight laugh at his threat before she looked down at the Shellfish Pokemon.

“Oh, very well,” she said as though she were talking to a naive child. “Allow me to first give you my name, ‘Master’.”

With a slight flourish, she kicked up a bunch of water as she began a short dance, causing Blastoise to cover himself and notice a strange red turtle shell-shaped sigil on the back of his paw. He analyzed it, wondering where it came from before he whirled back up to notice the girl wrapping her brief performance and bending to look at him at eye level.


"Alter Ego of Pleasure, Meltryllis. Though it pains me to no end, I suppose I’ll settle with forming a contract with you. Do you feel honored?"

------------------------------

(Special thanks to Arctic Tern Arctic Tern for joining me in this joint set!)
 

Torgo the Bear

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
1,176
Location
Grinding for Maushold Family of Three
NNID
u2outofcontrol
Switch FC
SW-1209-7008-3905
Blastoise
Arctic Tern Arctic Tern

Screenshot 2022-03-24 234658.jpg

This was another shorter set that I really don't have much to say about, but it was still definitely enjoyable! Blastoise really felt like a legitimate Smash character here, with simple mechanics and a moveset that really wouldn't feel too out of place from a character introduced in Brawl or so. As a fan of heavier characters, I will say that Blastoise really felt like a character that I would like to play as too, which is always nice. Overall, this was a fun read, and I'm interested to see what else you'll bring to the table in this contest!
 

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
305
Meltryllis by Arctic Tern Arctic Tern and GolisoPower GolisoPower ***

A doozy of a collab finished in time to count as a Jamcon submission, Melt (not using that whole name every time) manages to be a brisk read despite her length thanks to prefacing each move with a quick description of its functions, which makes it easier to understand and is good for a quick refresher whenever your reading is interrupted. The color coding, organization, and clean writing make the whole thing welcoming, letting the reader focus on the well-crafted set and its absolutely bonkers gimmick.

To start, Melt is an interesting inversion of Goliso's 'Ultraheavyweight' experiments from last contest, being a combo machine 'flyweight' that lives and dies on the knife's edge, and it's paired with the a playstyle designed to snowball into absurdity if she's allowed to have her way with the constant threat of being reset to square 1 with a stock less than where you were before being a major balancing factor. I feel this works out better than pushing the weight scale to extreme heights within the engine, and allows for some terrifying tricks to be added into the mix- like Neutral Special.

Being able to power up off of foes and eventually steal their gimmicks is a cool core concept, and unlike most copy characters MYM's attempted before, she has a solid underlying set and playstyle that molds what she takes to it, rather than the other way around. The set goes into detail on how Melt can utilize everything and touches on where it serves to counter the foes she takes from in an "everything you can do, I can do better" manner (as the set puts it) while never bogging the reader down with excess detail or redundancy, and there are still balancing factors in play to keep it from being impossibly broken aside from the difficulty of achieving the full gimmick theft (losing access to one of her core gimmicks with the damage buff-ing gimmicks, taking the good with the bad in cases like taking K. Rool's body armor, not being able to stack multiple gimmicks which also keeps the set from having to figure out how 2~4 different effects might interact, etc).

The effort to keep everything balance is clear even in the smaller touches like her great grab having mediocre or situational throws and lacking a proper kill throw entirely. This is an insane amount of content besides as it stretches to even include existing MYM 25 sets in a separate document, taking what would normally be hard to do as anything but an extra and making it a premiere feature of the set. It feels like everything meshes well, and again, Melt's underlying core set is still strong in concept and execution without the added abilities- being something that meshes wonderfully well while being an extra layer not needed to enjoy the set fully.

There's one or two things things that caught my eye, but they're mostly non-issues. Melt Virus has a physical hitbox but lacks a Critical Star affect. It's reasonable, since the point is more the Drainage effect which is clearly magic), but one thing I noticed is it's described as being good for fighting for neutral despite not flinching on hit. It feels like that'd be an issue even with its high speed as it'd fail to interrupt pokes and she's stated a few times to be very vulnerable to getting 0 to death'd due to her fly weight and larger hurtbox. What if the Critical Star effect was to add a small flinch to it? That'd make it significantly nastier as she'd have time to escape retaliation and could use it to poke, and actually getting a combo off of it would limit the opponent's opportunities to work at getting it off of them... which might be too strong. Hm.

The Second paragraph of Side Special has a sentence fragment- "Against off stage o ", but given he effective gimping abilities it's not hard to figure out what's meant to be said there, and the move is perfect besides that detail (I love how the move plays into Melt getting so much more powerful over the stock).

(As an aside: I wonder how she uses Jodie's Garment mechanic when it's tied to NSpec; does she lose access to her own in the process? Losing the instant KO is a shame and is different from the others, but makes sense given Jodie's Garments would make her nightmarishly good at controlling space with her fast attacks being set as traps and that's heinous with the ability to just stall out the clock/in 1v1 she'd have all she needs out of Jodie by then anyhow. If not intended, letting her access NSpec via Shield Special or her actual taunts could work... ooh, would she get her own aerial taunts/use Jodie's taunts? The idea of her impulsively posing after absorbing Jodie is kinda hilarious.)
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
You know how I said Wolf Witch Veronica was your best set this contest? Well, Meltryllis just beat her out by a mile. That is hugely impressive, even if Arctic Tern did most of the write-up from what I understand, as you had big ideas and it was a team effort. The fact that this set was written within some 2 days is absolutely mind-blowing, to the point where I had to see it to believe it. It’s really fun that Goliso could follow up on Passionlip in this way, a character he was passionate about with the Trash-and-Crush mechanic. And for Arctic, this set well establishes you as a big force in MYM, in which Blastoise was essentially a warm-up.

I love the extreme parallel between Passionlip’s insane slow weight and Melt being absurdly fast and light. And the critical star mechanic is a simple but uniquely fun take on Melt’s Crime Ballet skill - fascinating to see that the critical star mechanic employed in Gareth and Raikou last contest is being utilized in yet another unique way. It gets more intriguing with Melt Virus, and this explains why this set is so long as sets that involve getting bonuses based on the opponent you’re fighting require that, that much more detail.

The fact that you’ve both gone out and written up something for Every Smash character is phenomenal. It’s also fun to read, not only for the factual information on various fighters’ strengths that feels like a trademark Arctic contribution, but also the Goliso brand of memes. Aaaaand you don’t stop there, the character-specific details like Arsene carry over into the rest of the moveset! Wow, just wow. The great thing is that all this is technically an optional read, not essential to understanding Melt’s actual moveset.

(I hope you don’t mind me skipping over some of her character-specific command inputs and applications for the time being, like Kazuya and Ken’s command inputs. )

Beyond the big boy Special: Side Special is a simple but cool power move that reminds me of W’s Side Special in that you can cut down its heavy starting lag. And Up Special is a fun use of the workings of the critical star mechanic. The melee is very, very good, not only in relevant application but fun moves like Dash Attack’s deadly back hitbox with a crit star. In fact, it’s strong enough to hold its own, even against other sets that might have more compelling Specials or base mechanics. The sprinkles of her sadistic character like in Jab and prone-crushing Down Tilt make it more fun. The attack names are cool too.

I admire how, even with this insanely quick write-up, you’ve still the conscious to talk about the fun little zero-to-death possibility in Up Smash. Down Smash is fun for its movement and invincibility with yet another notable FA set inspiration. And I like the logic behind Melt’s grab game not being so great. F-air is a delicious with its potential one-two with Aerials stats absorbed, kind of feels like a melee move I would write up. I also like Lucario-style Down Airs where the fighter stalls in place when using them, as I was a Lucario main in Brawl era and we don’t get a lot of them.

In short, Meltryllis is a great set not far from the other joint set Heavyweight, Whitebeard! As with Rychu and Froy, I think the two of you were great partners. You also made me dream come true by submitting our very first Jamcon joint set! Melt is definitely your best set from both of you - but I get the impression that this isn’t Arctic’s ceiling and this set could be outclassed with some crazier and more ambitious, as in what the character can accomplish with their own set like most movesets do. Nonetheless, this is one of the most unique sets I’ve ever read in modern times - no matter how Melt compares compared to the rest of MYM25, I think she’ll go down in history in a way many others might not. A very solid contender for this Alternate Jamcon - and a good chance of taking my nomination!
 

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
305
Taranza by bubbyboytoo bubbyboytoo ***

A relief to read after the longer Melt, and a fantastic set that makes good use of every word in its count. Taranza makes use of effects to slow the opponent's mobility or provide lingering area denial, and then plays off of them with slower powerhouse moves or more precise effects. Down Smash works as an example of both, being slow while also being something you can aim with the choice between hitting one spot hard or two for coverage. Forward Aerial and to a lesser extent Up Tilt possess nasty sweetspots. Dash Attack rushing through a long area means Taranza can always threaten foes under a speed debuff and get in on (or rush past) foes. Jab just hammers the foe for damage while they are hindered in their ability to DI out.

It creates a suitably 'boss fight' feel through powerful telegraphed hits while being practical in the fast paced fighting game climate thanks to his tricks in hindering their ability to navigate it all. Neutral Special ends up nicely central for this by being both a threat and a reward, corralling or dragging foes into harm's way, with its secondary interaction with minions helping mitigate the difficulty Taranza would logically have with MYM minions and their ilk, turning them into a strength instead of a weakness.

Slowing the foe is especially an advantage in the air, using Taranza's great air mobility to escape combos or fly circles around opponents, a spider entangling a fly. The set makes use of the whole animal, putting together a solid game plan with moves that are simple but creative in concept and use the core mechanic wonderfully to create the proper game feel. Down Aerial provides an interesting interaction with the rest of the set beyond his core game plan in providing a short-lived platform that can give him time to use the start of a smash- getting out a strong hit and then cancelling it at the cost of being more telegraphed and committal on the wind-up. It's pretty brilliant, with a balancing factor preventing its abuse itself serving as a tactical option in allowing a faster variant of the move for the rest of the air trip if you choose to expend the platform early. This ends up my favorite trick in the set, if going on about it for most of a paragraph wasn't a hint.

The throws round out the set nicely; Up and Down Throws are very cool tricks that tie back into Taranza's main ability in his canon appearances. Forward Throw and Back Throw also serve their own purposes, being a tad short but having proper niches for a well-defined grab game overall- the only suggestion I can bring to the table for the set being that FThrow and BThrow could describe a good move or strategy to take immediately following use (something that uses FThrow's early spacing well, or something that's really mean to throw at the opponent slowed by Back Throw).

Overall this is an excellent submission, not just as a Jamcon entry but in general, and feels like the strong points of your style coming to the fore. Awesome job!
 
Last edited:

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,528
I went forward in time... to view alternate futures. To see all the possible outcomes of the coming conflict.

How many did you see?

14,000,605.

In how many did you become a rad-lookin' but ultimately ineffective Venom?


... One.




{MYM25-02} {Link}
{
Jamcon: AlterNate}
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
"This New World is rotten, and those who are making it rot deserve to die. Someone has to do it, so why not me? Even if it means sacrificing my own mind and soul, it's worth it. Because the world… can't go on like this. I wonder… what if someone else had picked up this notebook? Is there anyone out there other than me who'd be willing to eliminate the vermin from the world? If I don't do it, then who will? That's just it: there's no one. But I can do it. In fact, I'm the only one who can. I'll do it. Using the Death Note, I'll change the world..."







1648340962638.png

At last... Kira has returned to purge MYM...
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
Another Kirby set for you, making SirKibble proud! This one looks similar to Wheelie from a glance, with a similarly situational mechanic in the minion-stealing that I’m perfectly happy with balance-wise. Kind of fitting when you apparently dislike minion sets. Brief suggestion for Neutral Special, maybe Tarazan should only be able to move his ball in one direction, and has to stop if he wants to move it in another direction? Might be a tad easy to snatch up foes when it feels a bit easier to land than Ness and Lucas’ PK Thunder. It’s a neat move to tie in with a projectile orientated game, though!

The Specials come together simply but finely, slowly the foe down to be hit by your various projectiles. Melee-wise, I enjoyed some of the specific sweetspot moves like U-tilt’s precise tipper and D-tilt’s close-range and F-air - kind of forgot you had a big thing for sweetspots in your set, most memorably with Polterkitty and how that moveset inspired W. Steve-style D-airs are always fun, as Walter White can testify to. And mind control as a throwback to Creature, which you were a huge fan of, and a simple but effective way to balance it. Even if Taranza has no minions himself, he still gets mileage from his various projectiles and Up Special trap.

If I had to point out a way to enhance the set, I wonder if the applications and mix-ups of the moves could be expanded upon, like using your big moves to call out an opponent’s response to another attack (like jumping over your projectiles, as a basic example, or tech chasing options out of Back Throw). It would make the melee game more enticing, but that’s always something you can do in a set with more time devoted to it. I know you said in your Cid comment that US talking about mix-ups and 50/50s was what you envisioned your endgame to be like!

All said, I’m very impressed you made this set so quickly! Didn’t think you’d get a Jamcon out with Kirby and the Forgotten Land having come out recently. And for posterity’s sake for anyone who reads this comment in the future, I’m amazed you finished that game well before this Jamcon’s end!
 

Torgo the Bear

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
1,176
Location
Grinding for Maushold Family of Three
NNID
u2outofcontrol
Switch FC
SW-1209-7008-3905
Sleaze
Almand Almand

1648361877710.png

This took me a long time to read, but that's mostly just the result of irl distractions. Still, it was pretty enjoyable! I like big characters with big damage outputs, and this guy definitely delivered on that front! The only real problem is that it took me quite some time to really grasp how the pockets worked. I don't know if it was just me, but I really couldn't grasp all the concepts introduced in the very beginning of the set until I had read most of the moves later on. And even then, I still don't feel like I really have it down, but thankfully it didn't really ruin the set... there was enough to enjoy without trying to imagine just how much stronger or weaker the moves could all be with the right strategic planning (beyond pathway combos anyway, which I didn't have nearly as much trouble understanding).

The only other thing I really want to say about this set is that I'm not really a fan of you referring to standard attacks by name so often. I saw "Break Your Heart" in there so many times without actually remembering which move that was referring to. It probably wouldn't have been as big of a deal normally, but Sleaze has so many attacks that it just felt a little more overwhelming to remember exactly what each one was, and by name no less.

But, overall, I think Sleaze is pretty cool. I like the idea behind him, I like a heavyweight with some really cool attack animations, and I thoroughly enjoyed the pathway mechanics. So, good job!
 

Slavic

Ask not the sparrow how the eagle soars
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
757
Location
taco bell, probablyn't

Jaffar patrolled a dimly lit corridor, silent as a leopard with as lethal an intent. The assassin didn't care for the spongy halls of Shroob Castle, he found the color and texture of everything to be... unnerving, but nevertheless he found little choice for himself. He certainly didn't care for his current employer, a tyrannical mushroom from beyond his understanding. However, this was the only solution he had to keep himself safe, and more importantly to keep her safe. Jaffar stopped to press a hand against the moist wall, deep in introspection about his current situation.

He had a mission, a handful of assassination targets, that the Elder Princess demanded be taken care of. Jaffar had seen what happens to the disobedient and weak under the Elder's eyes, and knew he had to prove himself beyond invaluable, as he could not let such a thing happen to her. His current targets were two-fold: the first was a simple job, if one that would take extra cunning. A massive mountain of a man, armed to the teeth with ordinance and rations. He could be a threat to Jaffar, but the assassin should be near undetectable underneath the sound of that heavy weapon.

No, it was the other target which left Jaffar uneasy. The second target was nothing more than a small duck, a threat to the Elder Princess that even Jaffar couldn't comprehend. The more he planned his assault, the more he found himself doubting his ability to eliminate such a small, defenseless animal, the more he found himself kindred with that mound of muscle and bullets protecting it.

Jaffar shook his head, clearing his mind of such sentimental thoughts. To alter from his path now would spell doom, even if he could fight off the fungal invaders and escape without difficulty. No, it was the fact that she was trapped here with him. The choice between her life and a duck's life was blindingly clear, and Jaffar examined one of his daggers as he reminded himself of his goals.

The assassin continued down the corridor, approaching her room. Jaffar made sure to involve her with every mission, allowing her to leave the castle while proving her to be a valuable asset to keep. It pained him to involve her in his violent acts, but it kept her alive and the time spent with him kept her happy. As he approached the doorway, he overheard her voice speaking, giving him pause as he eavesdropped silently from the shadowy doorframe...
 

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,260
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513
Inside of her room, Nino stared out from the castle windows with a forlorn expression. It had been sixteen days since the sudden invading force of the Shroobs had managed to capture her, and it was only thanks to her and Jaffar's usefulness as assassins that they had been spared the Shroobification process others had gone through. Nino had hoped to leave that life behind her back in her Black Fang days, and yet...

"I just can't stand it." Her hands pet the feathers of the duck in her hand, fluffy with its giant light blue hat on, helping relieve her stress. "I. I know we don't have much of a choice, but it isn't right. The people we're being told to go after aren't bad. And Jaffar..."

The duck let out a quack as she pulled her knees close to herself. "He might not show it, but I know he doesn't like it either. Or at least, he doesn't like having me involved in it. I'm probably becoming a burden to him, like I was before." She sighed, the duck hoping off of her lap and towards the window of her castle, definitely not giving a signal to Whitebeard outside for him to begin an attack on the castle. "I just wish I could take his hand and run out of here once again. Even if we had to be on the run before, it was fine when we stayed true to ourselves. That was what's most important. I just...can't stand it."


Jamcon MYM25 #1: Alternate Entry



Nino

A FrozenRoy and Slavic Joint Production
 
Last edited:

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
Joining US’s line-up of Pokemon is a particularly neat choice, and another character to join the “construct that lets you throw out your attacks remotely” club (and boomerang-based cancels are always fun). Forward Smash is a very, very fun start to this: a good standalone move even without factoring in its potential with bonemerang, which allows for great attack mix-ups relative to its position and how you angle the move! Your other Smashes and ground melee from there is your garden-variety call-outs for different situations and covering tech situations.

I particularly like Forward Tilt though: multi-hit Forward Tilts that can be angled (and reversed in this situation) are among some of the coolest of their kind, as well as the mention of staling. It’s definitely a move I’d welcome more of in US sets. Neutral Air’s dragging hitbox is a fun use of the bonemerang too! Back Air is a fun move too, I enjoyed its usage as a more effective combo tool without your bone. Up Air is a really cool way of manipulating the bonemerang’s flight too, the flame sweetspot the icing on the cake.

Marowak is a rock-solid Jamcon set to go with your perfect attendance track record, no worse than your entries last contest in my books. I’m especially impressed you’ve been reading as well during this period! From reading this set, I get why you’d want to try your hand at the boomerang concept again, in perhaps a more ambitious character. An OC could be fun, giving them several tricks to use with the boomerang. Hina used a boomerang in her set, too.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,493
Location
Somewhere Out There
“Quax-quax, quax quax quax?” The tiny duckling Pokémon inquired as to their current location. Quaxly wasn’t exactly used to desert-like environments, and
the sandy breeze didn’t make his feathers any cleaner. “Quax quax quax” it grumbled, slapping the sand out of its feathers.
”SILENCE!” Quackfaster suddenly turned around, making herself big by T-posing in front of the lad. “We are on a very important mission. Here, in the Aed Desert, it is said that a shrine harbors the resting place of the legendary Balmung, a sword that is said to even surpass the strength of the Sword of Swanstantine.”
”Quax! Quax!” Quaxly pointed at a small pyramid in the vast wastelands.
”Very good lad, but I must warn you about your volume, lest you awaken the wicked spirits that are said to roam this place…”
”Quax…” the sailor whispered.

Arriving in the Aed shrine, they are met with a mountain of gold. “Scrooge would love this” Quackfaster recalled. “But it is not for us to attain more riches than the riches of the mind. Now, we must find this sword.”
”Quax, quax…” Quaxly looked around nervously.
”Yes, I hear it too….footsteps, and not of the webbed kind. Has the Loptr Church returned?”

Suddenly, a pink flash escaped through the window, waving the sword triumphantically above her.

Hi, I’m Daisy!

49EBD1DA-55A0-445E-ACF9-23A060967277.jpeg
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,788
Location
Toxic Tower
JODIE REYNOLDS:
From what I've read so far, Jodie is probably the set for which I saw the most hype from others before I started reading and, for the most part, I'd say she delivers on those high expectations! Similarly, I'd seen some nitpicks that she might have a bit too much going on in places, contributing to her bulging word count, but I kept waiting for a move or concept where I felt that way, and that point never really arrived. Neutral Special is well-designed in terms of one of these move-logging mechanisms that have become a modern MYM staple, with a fresh item-based spin on how she throws out her Garments and stores them back in her Reserve. The resulting changes to Jodie's movement keep her balance grounded while also serving as a cool stat-focused inversion of a typical ammo bank. This is essentially the Level 100 version of what Petey Piranha attempted with his goop vomiting and absorption - you love to see it done this well.

Jodie's remaining regular and Stance Specials then all feel neatly segmented out, in terms of direct attacks she's doing and control options for her Stand based on thrown Garments. Side Special's mix-up in terms of whether she latches to a foe or the ground for a movement-based kick is great fun, as is Up Special in terms of its potential to save her from wayward knockback. You get a sense of real player choice in so far as options for Jodie to expend different moves she's stored or rotated around for optimal use, such as in Down Special counter form or in chasing a foe around the stage with Stance Side Special. I'm a bit mixed on the inclusion of an AI Stand — it's definitely a plus that Jodie can control its behavior to a degree based on what Reserve move it's using, there's just always going to be that small about of RNG variance where it uses a command dash attack during setups where she would've preferred something different. Also, it admittedly took me a few read-throughs to understand Stance Down Special's flurry animation, and at the risk of asking for even more explanation in a 30k+ word(?) set, I'm not sure how the frame data functions in terms of multiple saved moves of different speeds. In any case, it's maybe less flashy, but I did appreciate the sheer efficiency of having Stance Up Special on hand to recall stray Garments, a more advanced form of Rosalina's gravitational pull in some ways.

From standards onward, I'm hard pressed to find any attacks I didn't get a real kick out of, given how they can function out of Garment traps, like fully-fledged, modernized Potato Head parts. Jab as a flurry option while a Garment is on its way back to Jodie, D-Tilt's sweep pulling campers inward, U-Tilt's combo applicability when Garments are thrown, the different lingering hitboxes possible via N-Air and D-Smash (and presumable potential to stack the two for a three-hit combo!), D-Air's tentacles, U-Air's parachute...personal highlights probably were F-Smash's hitbox transfer to the follow-up Reserve hit, F-Throw’s pseudo-command throw properties and U-Smash's crisp bullet hell versatility. I do wonder whether the trigger mechanism for Garment-stored attacks — foes getting in range during a set timeframe — is a bit generous. I see the logic, but in practice, Jodie doesn't need to worry about timing a direct hit so long as her foe crosses into range within the allotted two seconds; can auto-aim attacks like F-Tilt; and create automatic trouble over large portions of the stage with F-Air. Foes can, of course, bait Jodie into wasting these Garment attacks, but that's harder when, unless I'm missing something, there's no visual indicator as to which move will emerge from any given Garment until they're triggered. It's nothing setbreaking, but I would have been interested to see the version of Jodie where her Garments all were triggered manually — a more challenging design to play, but maybe a hair more streamlined?

This is all relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, of course, the Jodie that we got currently holds the spot of my favorite MYM25 set so far, based on how many far-out concepts she successfully juggles — definitely shades of everything that made Hina as great as she was in here, and well worth the wait. U UserShadow7989
 
Last edited:

GolisoPower

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
4,316
Taranzy-Banzy Spider
Taranza by bubbyboytoo bubbyboytoo
(3/27/2022)

So the first set in the entire JamCon after Meltryllis is, let's all admit, a breath of fresh air thanks to its short length and simple-to-grasp mechanics, both of which are good things about it. Neutral Special is a nice command grab that gives him a chance to hijack some of your foes' minions to fight on your side. I love the way you work your way around making it not too broken, to the point where the only canon Smash character that gets hard-countered by him is Rosalina, CPS be damned. It also plays pretty well into a very oppressive air game thanks to maintaining airtime from using his specials in mid-air, such as the aforementioned Neutral Special. Aside from that, the mechanics and attacks are simple enough to understand, and I'm personally a fan of the Terra Force-style projectile that is Down Special. Even though the only game I ever played that had Taranza is Kirby Triple Deluxe, I naught but admire the number of references to his attacks and abilities that he has across the whole series, and making something so cohesive and fun overall. A nice refresher when compared to the number of word-titan sets in this contest, and a welcome entry to JamCon. Good work!

"Bones Malone And The Spooky Boys?!"
Alolan Marowak by U UserShadow7989
(3/29/2022)

Next up is one of the many regional variants of Pokemon Sun & Moon, the fire-dancing bone-man himself! Alolan Marowak has a lot to deal with when it comes to using his Bonemerang, and as someone who mines raw dopamine from using Pyra, I feel like this is just a much better version of the Links' Boomerang! It interests me how most of the set relies on the Bone to fight, but he can still fight even before it comes back to him, like an absolute boss. But then there's the fact that he can use attacks that don't involve the bone, just to ensure that he's not entirely a sitting duck while it's traveling like the redheaded Aegis. I'm also really glad that some of his Normals give Bonemerang different properties and that concept isn't just limited to the Specials. Side Smash turning it into a reflector and his grabs changing to accommodate the lack of bone in favor of interactivity with it while it's out. I'd say your dance pyre made by Alolan Marowak very much enticed me with its flickering and its embers, almost like watching an actual fire dancer. I applaud you for your performance, good sir!

"Strange, Isn't It!?"
Venom Strange by n88 n88
(4/2/2022)

Venom Strange is an extremely fun set that involves using different magic and minions to hinder and eventually topple his foes, and I'm gonna push myself to get all this out because there is a lot to unpack, not gonna lie. The Wards sound like some absolute bull in a fun way, you're effectively saying, "What if Min Min could swap to the Gust Bellows"? ...scheisse, allowing Min Min to swap to different items with Down Special sounds like a hilarious mod to put into the game. Anyway, I like the random-chance effects that the Ward has, too: the fact that it changes percentage chance to trip based on whether or not they're moving is a pretty interesting concept, and I'm game for applying underused, high-brow effects in the future. The deployable portal is something I've considered for a set in the future, though in the context of this set it sounds pretty fun. It sounds like it could play up some pretty strong mind-games depending on which direction you want to teleport. The containers, meanwhile, are a really good means of putting your opponent in time-out when they're trying to beat the everloving snot out of you. But alternatively you're effectively turning the immediate space into a sort of "King of Fighters Stadium" kind of barrier box, because from the looks of it you can walk inside a container.

And finally, we've got the summons, where Venom Strange really shines: priming yourself to summon people to attack with your minions in place of your own moveset, then leaving them out to fight on their own instead of you directly controlling them, and the resummoning them for the move to sacrifice stage control for power. Speaking of, I love how your summons have their own unique roles each: Captain America is the living bunker to help defend Strange, Ant-Man is the sustained damage fly that won't go away, Raccoon's the brute-force projectile summon, Ghost Rider's the burst damage beast, Wolverine is the aggressive combo machine, Spinneret's the CC-oriented stage control, and Deadpool's...just Deadpool. Everything here seems to have their own distinguished uses that, when factoring into the summon stance, gives Strange a fairly versatile kit that allows him to adapt based on the behavior of his foes. Overall, he sounds like a big frontrunner for being Nominated in this JamCon, provided none of the rest win that from him. Looking at you Light Yagami. Anyways, I'd say this was a great job!
 
Last edited:

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,260
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513
No. 182

Bellossom

Bellossom is an Alternate evolution for Gloom that was introduced in Generation 2. Of all the Pokemon in the series, it certainly is one of them. My second entry for MYM25's first Jamcon: Alternate. One might even call this my Alternate Jamcon entry!

Statistics

Small. Frail. Slow. These are the traits found in Bellossom, who is slightly larger than Pichu but smaller than Pikachu, has an 82 weight equal to Rosalina/Falco, and a dash speed equal to Ike as she shuffles her little hidden feet along. Aerially, Bellossom is a slow faller on par with Peach and Daisy for some excellent aerial play, decent air speed equal to Toon Link, has two above average jumps and a float that lasts 80% as long as Peach/Daisy as she flutters in the air with light grassyness!

Specials

Down Special: Sunny Day

Performing a little sun dance, not to be confused with a Rain Dance, before ending it by spreading her arms above her head and calling down the power of the sun! This creates a beam of sunny (de) light from the top of the blast zone to the first platform that it would hit, not going through drop down platforms or anything, that is 1.5x the width of Bowser at the base (assuming it is used at, say, the middle of Final Destination: It will continue to expand wider the further it goes down) and the width of Bellossom at the very top where the sun beam starts. This has some duration to it's animation (ends on Frame 28, a little later than when Snake plants a C4) but it isn't too bad and it lasts for a fairly long 15 seconds. Bellossom can only have one Sunny Day out at a time, using this move again will relocate the Sunny Day to Bellossom's current position and have its timer refreshed.

The power of the sun bolsters Bellossom's weight by 20 points while in the sun, making it harder to KO Bellossom if she is launched from her sunny area. Her Chlorophyll ability also increases her speed by 1.5x while inside the Sunny Day and for 2.5 seconds after leaving it, giving Bellossom a nice boost to get aggressive (or, you know, run away) after being in her Sunny Day. All other buffs are move-by-move, so let's get to it.


Neutral Special: Solar Beam

Bellossom is constantly charging her Neutral Special, Solar Beam, in a manner akin to Wario Waft. It has a much lesser timer but is, in turn, much less powerful. This attack takes 30 seconds to charge (for reference the first stage of Wario Waft takes 15 seconds and a fully charged Waft takes 110 seconds!), but the charge speed is doubled while inside of Sunny Day. This is a big reason to stay within Sunny Day! Bellossom flashes a nice, vibrant green when the fully charged beam is ready, with Bellossom just doing the start of the animation and then looking sad while flumping over if used before it has full charge (think Robin trying to use a move with their tome broken).

Upon inputting this move with full charge, Bellossom does a dramatic pose as solar energy shoots out of the flowers on her head in a large and Thoron-esque beam! It has the same range and size but deals its damage as a single hitbox of 18% that kills at 120%, about 30-40% earlier than Thoron! Bellossom doesn't get to use Thoron as consistently as Robin, who can charge and fire the move over and over, but in exchange there's no active detrimental charging time to Bellossom's set. The time it takes to fire the beam is roughly equal to Thoron. Unlike Robin, Bellossom can choose any direction to fire the beam in during the move's starting lag, which can be useful for sniping recovering enemies or as a potent anti-air. The knockback always remains the standard, diagonal kind though.

Sunny Day obviously can't charge Solar Beam when it is fully charged, so instead the Solar Beam takes in the sun's strength to power itself up! This increased the width of the beam and how fast it travels by 1.3x, along with boosting the power to 26% that kills at 90%, which is incredibly strong for this kind of projectile! This of course is made up for with the predictability of the maneveur and the charge time, but it is what it is.


Side Special: Leech Seed

Bellossom flicks one of its stubby arms forward, shooting out a trio of seeds as a single hitbox in an arc that goes 1.2 Battlefield Platforms total. Not very long for a projectile! Getting hit deals a mere 3% damage over three hits with short hitstun, so Bellossom doesn't get much off of this. The plus side is that the move is fast and spammable, only slightly laggier than Olimar's Pikmin Toss. The seeds vanish if they miss an opponent, but sprout out some leafy vines that latch onto the opponent on hit, seeking to grow by draining the life out of the foe! This deals 1% damage to the foe every half second for an amount of time that varies based on the foe's damage, like the aforementioned Pikmin Toss it stays on for longer the LESS damage the foe has. 10 seconds if the foe is at 0% and 5 seconds if the foe is at 60%+, not going past that. In addition, Leech Seed's hitrate is increased to 1% every 1/4th of a second and the speed in which it goes away is halved while a foe who is Leech Seeded is within a Sunny Day!

Additionall if the foe is within a Smart Bomb blast radius of Bellossom, she will absorb the life energy to heal that same amount! This does make an interesting conundrum for the opponent. They could run away from Bellossom to avoid this leech seeding damage, but that just means Bellossom gets to charge up her Solar Beam and maybe set up some other stuff. On the other hand, Bellossom gains Solar Beam charge if she heals inside of her Sunny Day and the healing can make taking down the lightweight Bellossom take longer than they'd normally enjoy, especially with Sunny Day to boost her weight. It's a simple, but effective form of drain poison.

The actual hitbox can be useful to toss out when recovering due to the low commitment and decent chance to interrupt an edgeguard, but being overly predictable means the opponent will either fastfall under you or jump over it and hit you.


Up Special: Petal Dance

An explosion of pollen propels Bellossom upwards as she spins into the air like a graceful dancer with a burst of petals and flies into the air as a recovery! The start of this move is a powerful spiking sweetspot that has a similar application to Mii Gunner's Cannon Jump Kick that deals 10% and can kill pretty well, followed instantly by another hitbox of 7% that will kill at around 145% and combos out of the initial hit when used on the ground. This means that like Cannon Jump Kick this move is a GREAT out of shield option! Bellossom's body is a smaller 4% hitbox with weak upwards knockback if her spinning petals or initial hitbox or missed and for some lingering frames at the end of the attack. Startup is quite fast and while the ending lag is on the long end, Bellossom does NOT enter helpless. It does have reeeeeally bad range for an Up Special though, being one of the more pathetic recoveries in the game from characters whose names don't start with "L" and end with "Mac" or are named Belmonts.

A secondary follow-up can allow Bellossom to alleviate this issue at the cost of more issues! Input Up Special again and Bellossom will use the power of petals to launch herself outwards in an angle-able manner just like Rosalina's Up Special! This goes quite far and so helps save Bellossom from a low recovery height but comes with a lot of other issues. It is a pretty laggy recovery to start and has no associated hitbox, making it total gimp fodder that is only somewhat helped by the first Petal Dance input + mixup options. And unlike Rosalina, there's no Luma to throw out attacks and try to help protect her! It also forces Bellossom into helpless unlike the earlier move, representing Petal Dance causing confusion after 2-5 turns. Essentially, this is an emergency tool when your recovery wouldn't be enough with a lot of exploitable combinations in its nature, but hey it's better than dying to your stubby Up Special distance 100% of the time.

Bellossom doesn't need to use this Up Special right after the first Petal Dance and can use it at any point in the air after using the first Petal Dance but before landing. This allows Bellossom to use recovery mixups, or to go deep off stage with an attempted Up Special spike but not die (although if the enemy goes for an edgeguard reversal the weaknesses of the 2nd Up Special might do her in).


Smashes

Down Smash: Petal Blizzard

Moving down to one leg under her grass skirt, Bellossom rapidly spins as said skirt flairs outwards with a flurry of petals flying around them! This is a long lasting, multiple hit attack that decimates shields with six hits of 2.5% each and a final strike of 4% that totals up to 19%-26.6%! The knockback on the final hit is not too impressive but it can make for an auxillary kill move at 180%-150% or so, which because the move is very fast for a Smash Attack (Frame 7) is pretty good. While the actual ending lag is fine, the move's very long duration of about 28 frames makes this preeeeetty punishable if you whiff it. The hitbox is also quite low to the ground, meaning opponents can jump over Bellossom and strike her down with all of their hatred fairly easily. Bellossom's small size can make it easy to hop over her during this since her hurtbox shifts down, though.

This move's strong anti-shield properties come from the six hits having a high 1.5x shield damage multiplier that chews through shields along with the super low hitbox meaning it shield pokes very well. After 1-3 hits (depending on the opponent's shield strength and ofc assuming it didn't do so to begin with) the rest of the hits will poke through a shield, making shielding a highly ineffective option here. The high horizontal range combined with the high duration also makes it GREAT at catchin' rolls, so Down Smash's niche in Bellossom's moveset largely amounts to a strong anti-defensive tool, and a panic "get off me" both sides hitting attack that has a LOT of potential downside if baited out.


Forward Smash: Powder Burst

Bellossom claps her stubby arms in front of her while pointing her head-flowers forward, shooting out a burst of pollen-y powder in front of her! Similar to Daisy's Forward Smash (I guess it is no surprise PEACH and DAISY are inspirations for the grass type!), Bellossom has three different Forward Smashes. Unlike the more RNG laden fellows, however, Bellossom's instead follow a pretty strict pattern: Stun Spore on first use, Poison Powder on second use, Sleep Powder on third use, repeat. While the general basis of this move is the same across all versions, they all have some small differences. Shared attributes include the lag, a rather hefty 22 frames of startup with notable ending lag, and creating a lingering cloud of powder that lasts for 5 seconds but disappears half as fast while under a Sunny Day. The starting lag of this attack is also cut by 4 frames under Sunny Day, as drinking in the sun's power allows her to create powders faster!

She can have more than one type of powder out at a time but only one of each type, although the odds of going through four straight Forward Smashes in a row before a powder dissipates to begin with would be...low. Overlapping powders will have their effects overlap as well and Sunny Day can shine on all of them at once, encouraging Bellossom to stack her powders if she wants to maximize their power. But spreading them out maximizes more stage control and is itself useful.

The first hitbox, Stun Spore, is a yellow cloud that is also a bit more visibly "chunky" and spore-like. The damage it deals is low, 13%-19.2%, but the light knockback with a high 1.4x hitstun modifer allows Bellossom to combo out of a hit despite the ending lag. The later into the hit that Bellossom strikes, the stronger the combo she can get off of it! And like all of the powders the hitbox lingers for a good deal of frames. This makes it solid to fish for early in stocks if you can stay at range, but at close range can easily be shielded or punished. The powder cloud it leaves behind is a paralyzing one: Opponent attacks that start inside of the cloud get shocked and have to tough it out, adding 3 frames of starting lag to any attack they begin and dealing a little 1.3% damage in the process. The short duration of the stunning spore cloud keeps this from being overly obnoxious, especially as Belossom needs to cycle back to it, but it helps keep Bellossom's actually largely slightly slow set from being overwhelmed, or lets her use some of her more laggy-strong attacks easily.

The second varant is Poison Powder, a very fine and mist-like purple cloud that deals a higher 15%-21% damage as it shoots out, but essentially no knockback: The 15%-21% is over a bunch of multihit attacks that try to bring opponents to the center of the cloud. This is the highest damage option Bellossom has out of Forward Smash and it doesn't stop there! Opponents inside of the cloud take 1% damage every half second, so an opponent trapped in the cloud's entire normal duration could take 25%-31%, and if Bellossom can trap an opponent inside a Sunny Day length one that's a disgusting 35%-41% damage off of this cloud! While the latter numbers are unviable for normal play, it does show off why this is a dangerous cloud for the opponent to deal with. The poison does not carry over, but the current state of their poison timer does (so if they had 1 frame to their next poison damage and enter the cloud again, they instantly take 1% damage). And similar to the Toxic/Leech Seed glitch from Generation 1, poison damage dealt from this move will heal Bellossom if she has Leech Seed on the foe! This can allow her to double up on both the damage over time and healing of Leech Seed, playing a real drain game for the lightweight.

We finally come to Sleep Powder, which deals the same weak damage across the board (10%-14%), but has different knockback depending on where it hits. A point blank sweetspot puts the opponent to sleep for half the duration of Jigglypuff's Sing. While the lag on this attack is rather high for great follow-ups, having a potential snap sleep move is obviously nice. The rest of the attack deals weak upwards knockback that will consistently hit enemies above the lingering cloud without enough hitstun for Bellossom to actively follow up on. While the actual attack portion is the most underwhelming by a good deal, the powder effect is arguably the scariest: If an opponent remains inside it for 2.5 seconds, they fall asleep! Bellossom is immune to all of her powders, so she can freely run into the cloud and get sick plays on the hapless enemy! This counter's timer remains if they exit the cloud, but is reset if that cloud disappears and is not shared among all clouds. Note that Poison Powder's cloud does not deal hitstun, so it won't hit people out of sleep. The uses of Sleep Powder are pretty obvious, but it's going to be especially potent if you have a Solar Beam ready: You could even toss out a Leech Seed from far enough away that you can Solar Beam where it'll land and hit with a double combo!

Sleep Powder's timer does not advance on enemies who are in a grab state or otherwise stunned, including being asleep. Bellossom's head flowers change color when the attack is started / being charged to be appropriate for the color of the powder it'll make: Yellow for Stun, Purple for Poison and Green for Sleep.


Up Smash: Venoshock

Bellossom leans her head back as the petals on her head shine a light purple, before headbutting upwards in an animation anyone who has played a Smash Brothers game can recognize. It's probably most comparable to Jigglypuff's Up Smash or Dedede's Up Tilt of those visually. As far as headbutt Up Smashes go, Venoshock is pretty weak as a baseline: 12%-16.8% damage and knockback that won't KO until 180%-150%. This is at least a pretty fast Up Smash (Frame 11, although like most headbutt Up Smashes it takes a frame for the hitbox above to be a Thing) and while it is more punishable than your average headbutt Up Smash it isn't a heavyweight laggy one or anything. There's also no head intangability here, though: Bellossom using this to catch landings is rather susceptible to being landed on with attacks.

You probably saw this coming from the name and animation, but this attack has bonus damage on "poisoned" opponents: This includes both the poison from Poison Powder AND Leech Seed, which given how Leech Seed is easy to land is valuable. Hitting an opponent inflicted by any of these will cause a burst of bright purple poison to explode outwards from Bellossom's flowers, which absolutely can hit outside opponents. It's a deadly, enhancing toxin! In this case, what it "enhances" is the power of the Up Smash, doubling the damage to 24%-33.6% damage and halving the KO percents to 90%-75%. Them there are heavyweight numbers! On a Frame 11 move this adds a lot more threat to Bellossom in a somewhat situational way, but Leech Seed is common enough that it isn't tooooooooo situational. It also adds more pressure to the opponent if they want to keep fighting Bellossom, incentivizing the foe running away and letting Bellossom get more Solar Beam charge!


Standards

Jab: Acid

A one hit jab that's a multihit hitbox, Bellossom leans forward and spits out some acid directly in front of her! You didn't forget she was part of the Oddish line, did you? The acid is a sickly greenish yellow and hits directly in front of Bellossom, bubbling three times for 3% damage each with the last hit dealing low damage that can start a tech at low percents. It's reasonably fast for defensive purposes, coming out one frame slower than Corrin's Jab, but it doesn't offer much reward past those starting percents and is otherwise more of an emergency panic option or a quick offensive tool when she's feeling outsped. The ending lag is pretty minimal for a Jab as well.

One unique thing about this jab is its anti-defensive ability! Acid's got that chance to lower a foe's defense, after all, and here it'll melt through shields like acid does. Not to the extent of any, say, acidic killing machines of old, but it does do a lot of bonus shield damage! Enough that each hit does 9% after the shield's standard extra damage modifier, and will combo for 27% on it at basically all times, quite powerful! It's also very safe on shield from the extra shield stun here and at close range Bellossom can run in for a grab if she is fast (just be careful because, spoilers, Bellossom's grab has BAD range!) and in general means Bellossom can use her jab as a shield check which is pretty unique.

And if Bellossom hits an opponent rather than their shield, that acidic poison will stick to them! This is an anti-defense debuff that occurs for 5 seconds and causes foe's shield to take 1.2x damage, being able to be stacked up to five times total to make it so a shield takes double damage! It's really the opponent's own fault if they ran into a jab that many times in that small of time (even if the duration is reset with each jab), and opponents can at least not shield and take a hit if they're that afraid of a shield break. But given attacks like Down Smash and Jab that are great against shields, this is a valued debuff. This does count as a form of "poison" (it's literally poison type!) and so counts for Venoshock's effect.


Forward Tilt: Leaf Blade

Bellossom takes a step forward while performing a dancing spin that makes her leafy skirt spin like a blade in a move most easily comparable to Ivysaur's Forward Tilt. A move all about the spacing aspect, the damage on this attack is fairly mediocre (6 hits of 1% + 1 hit of 2.5% = 8.5%) but the range is pretty good, Bellossom taking a step forward means it has more range than mos of her stubby melee attacks while stepping back afterwards means spacing this to be safe on shield is casual. This makes it one of Bellossom's main neutral tools due to the Frame 9 start-up being masked somewhat by the range and average starting lag, but the reward is on the low side. Starting at 190% it can KO, only truly useful if enemies are dodging every other strong attack in Bellossom's arsenal. The nice range + speed can allow it to combo out of some moves other attacks cannot, it has higher horizontal range in one direction than Down Smash for example, but there isn't a ton to it outside of those general uses. The range can help poke at people inside your clouds to try and keep them in there while staying safe, I suppose.

Up Tilt: Buzzblade

The flowers on Bellossom's head expand and spin like a buzzsaw as she makes a very slight hop upwards for this Up Tilt! This is another multihit in Bellossom's arsenal that deals damage totaling 6% over five hits of 1.2% damage each. While it's no Mario Up Tilt in speed, the Frame 8 start-up is juuust on that edge before it begins to feel slow, and the ending lag is mediocre but fast enough for Bellossom to get a quick aerial off on the foe. They'll generally be popped up a bit too high to reasonably loop this for free damage though, excepting fastfallers and/or big bodies who might be hit 2-3 times at very low percentages. The flower is a disjointed hitbox and so can better challenge landing enemies than Up Smash, but the disjoint is small and so Bellossom is still liable to trade with many attacks. This primarily places it in the somewhat mediocre combo starter tier as a result, but beggars can't be choosers and Bellossom is one of those "a touch slow" characters. She has good aerials to take advantage of it, at least!

Down Tilt: Sweet Scent

Bellossom sweeps one of her legs forward, though given it is under her grass skirt it just kind of flings forward a little. A sweet wave of powder-y aroma shoots out from under said skirt, sparkling as it travels low to the ground 2/3rds of a Battlefield Platform. Like most of Bellossom's standards, this is a multi-striking hitbox! Dealing four hits of 1.5% damage each, the key thing about this attack is the INWARD knockback it possesses! Out of all of Bellossom's grounded moves this is her main combo starter, leading into most of her grounded normals. Up Smash is just a touch too laggy to hit with in most circumstances, but anything 10 frames or less can usually come out of this with some leeway depending on positioning, so ones on the high end of that lag might not ALWAYS link perfectly. This move does have somewhat high starting lag from the animation, 11 frames, but befitting the combo potential here it has short ending lag.

The three main follow-ups to this attack are Jab, Down Smash, Up Tilt and Grab. Up Tilt leads into aerial combos at low percents that will deal more damage than Down Smash, but Down Smash deals higher damage once Up Tilt's combos become more DI-able and can be a kill confirm late into stocks. Jab has the least damage out of all of them but allows Bellossom a 100% way to inflict her anti-defense status effect if she wants, which if Bellossom has landed one before could be the key to building it up to even more frightening levels of pain. Grab can lead to even higher levels of damage than Up Tilt, but the stubby range means it can't combo out of this if the opponent is hit by it too far away and obviously a whiffed grab is terrible. You also can go for Venoshock off of Down Tilt if the foe is poisoned and hope they just don't shield it, but prepare to be very punished if you do! In fact, poisoned opponents are a lot more likely to try and shield juuust in case, which means Bellossom can run in for a grab or see if they can catch out an incidentally buffered air dodge!


Dash Attack: Boom and Bloom

Bellossom surges forward with both of her stubby arms pushed forward as a spark of nature-y, grass-y green energy appears at the tip, before it blooms into a bright energy flower which then dissipates. The first hit deals a minor 3% damage while the second hit deals a cool 8% for a total of 11% and the attacks will pretty much always link into each other as a combo even against shields. The knockback isn't all that much to write home about but can be an emergency KO tool starting at aoround 195%, while at the ledge it can help begin an edgeguard earlier with a slightly low knockback angle. Another nice aspect of this attack is coming out Frame 7, which with the little surge forward gives Bellossom a quick move with a bit of range. The ending lag is moderate.

Bellossom doesn't have a lot that specifically combos into this move, but her slow speed and tools more designed for zoning can leave her crying out for some better punish tools. Dash Attack serves that niche with its burst movement, being primarily used to punish whiffing opponents outside of Bellossom's normal range or things like landing reads when out of position. It can also be used as an approach mixup, but given she is more likely to approach through the air this isn't the most common of things.


Aerials

Forward Aerial: Skirt Flip

Bellossom performs a graceful frontflip double-footed bicycle kick as leaves and petals fly out around her, creating a four hit multihit attack that deals 1.5% damage with each hit followed by a single petal burst that deals 5% damage and launches enemies away with below average force. The total damage of 11% is pretty swanky for Bellossom and her floaty nature means she can perform wall of pains well with this, quite especially because those flowery elements give this move a sliiight disjoint! You could even try to carry someone off the stage with this, although this is riskier for Bellossom compared to some characters due to how exploitable both parts of her recovery are: It's very possible for it to be reversed and her to be spiked kinda casually. This move's Frame 11 start-up is also kinda long for that style of move and the ending lag is on the long end too.

While this move doesn't have great autocancel frames, limiting the combo potential on display here, landing can at least lead into a Jab at most percents. And there is an autocancel window specifically after the penultimate hit but before the last hit, which if Bellossom lands during will lead into most of her quick air game. A shorthop with a bit of a lengthy delay on the fastfall can hit this window with some consistency and is good for her combo game.


Neutral Aerial: Slap Down

Pulling back one of her stubby little arms, Bellossom's face becomes fierce and angry as she slaps forwards! The slap begins behind Bellossom and ends in front of her, although the range on both of these is on the small side, and they have two different hitboxes. The hit that begins behind Bellossom is the weaker strike, 10% damage, but the knockback is actually a semi-spike that while mostly horizontal has a slightly vertical angle as Bellossom slaps the opponent away! This has some nice, niche uses for Bellossom when it comes to an opponent recovering behind them or to in general get offstage kills, but additionally to that can shove foes to the ground for tech situations to be covered by Forward Smash, Down Smash, Dash Attack or Forward Tilt. The actual main hit is a real powerful hitbox that deals 15% and kills at 110%, making it the premiere "hard punish" power move in Bellossom's aerial arsenal! The back hit comes out on Frame 15, with the primary frontal hit coming out at Frame 17 which certainly emphasizes how this is a callout style attack! The ending lag is kinda hefty, too.

Opponents air dodging out of fear of Up Smash or avoiding powders, mixing it up with your Up Aerial, a mixup out of your assured combo moves in case an opponent is asleep at the wheel, and especially combined with a low float to the ground where Bellossom can retreat are all excellent ways for Bellossom to use this potent Neutral Aerial. Just be aware of its weaknesses and it will serve you well.


Up Aerial: Rainbow Petals

Premiere juggling tool, damage racker and late damage kill move, Up Aerial is one of the most valuable moves in Bellossom's moveset! Bellossom performs a fancy and graceful sweep of one of her hands as flower petals fly out of it, followed by a second sweep from the other direction that shoots out its own petals of different colors: Combined, all seven colors of the rainbow are represented! Each of these are seperate hits with the petals acting as a nicely sized disjoint, giving this move high range for Bellossom and making air dodging through this a paaaaaain. At 5% damage for the first hit and 7% for the second (12% total) and a high rate of linking into each other, this aerial does is great for damage racking and on top of that the second hit can kill at 200%...but if the opponent is high in the sky you can reduce this a great deal of course. The starting lag is mediocre (11 frames for the first hit, 16 for the second) and that can be a serious problem for Bellossom, but the ending lag is quick enough to finish as well.

This move has a LOT of applications. The disjoint and two-hit nature combined with Bellossom's float means she is an EXPERT at catching landings while hovering just out of reach, and when her Up Smash isn't getting KOs it isn't bad at setting up aerial situations. If floated low to the ground, landing after the first hit combos into a grounded move. At low percents, the knockback is low enough that a second jump into the air can lead into a second up aerial, after which Bellossom has a very risky 50/50 with Up Special as a powerful combo finisher! And at later percents, Up Aerial -> Up Special can be an equally risky 50/50 kill option. Floating under a ledge? Up Aerial lets you cover it against recovering enemies or knock them off if YOU want to recover. It combos out of Up Tilt, it's second hit lingers for three more frames in Sunny Day because the sun is healthy for both flowers AND rainbows (though, sadly, Bellossom does NOT travel to the sun if KO'd during this move), it's one of Bellossom's staple attacks and something you're going to be seeing a lot in any given match with her!


Down Aerial: Pollen Burst

Bellossom performs a pair of kicks under her quickly, each one doing 2.5% damage and no real knockback, before she lets out a burst of pollen under her Ivysaur-style! The final hit has a sweetspot and a sourspot. The sweetspot in the middle of the pollen-y explosion deals 9% damage and a spike lesser than Ivysaur's in power, while the sourspot of the rest of the burst deals 6% and mediocre upwards knockback that won't kill until 250%. You obviously want to hit the sweetspot in most cases, and given Bellossom's float there is a LOT of potential to be a real threat floating close to a ledge and tossing out multi-hit kicks and spikes against hapless, recovering foes! The first kick comes out on Frame 11, the second at Frame 14 and the explosion at Frame 19, with Bellossom being briefly stalled in the air (but not popped up!) like Ivysaur when the explosion occurs. The ending lag on this attack is pretty rough (if shorter than Ivysaur's), but the landing lag is soft for Bellossom IF she lands before the pollen burst occurs!

Given the float that Bellossom possesses, this offers her some mixups when low floating of either landing to reduce lag (possibly while floating away for safety) or trying to spike an on stage foe (which begins a landing situation for the foe). Bellossom needs to be careful when trying to spike opponents with this because compared to most single hit spikes, her movement could misplace the sweetspot and end up with the lame sourspot. One way to help avoid this is floating, but the specifics of the sweetspot could require Bellossom to follow the opponent's DI in order to finish them off. The plus side is that the multiple hits mean air dodging to avoid it is much more difficult and Bellossom can cover air space better, essentially being stronger but harder to utilize.


Back Aerial: Seed Bomb

Taking a single seed into her little hand, Bellossom leans back slightly and tosses it behind her! It is tossed at a high angle before falling down behind her. There is no limit to how far the seed can fall, stopping when it hits a ground, the opponent or goes offstage. If something keeps it from doing any of these for 5 seconds it vanishes as a precaution to any wild sets that can use it forever. Upon impact with foe or stage alike, the seed bursts into a Deku Nut-esque and sized explosion that deals 10% damage and knockback that kills at 170%. This comes out on Frame 10 and while it doesn't have a lot of horizontal range it is still decent, with it going up 0.6 Ganondorfs before falling down. It lingers slightly at the apex of this vertical ascent and overall has quite the long duration in most uses, so this is probably the main hitbox Bellossom will toss out when she wants the lingering hitboxes she oh-so-enjoys. This also makes it probably one of her most common Neutral Tools, floating and tossing out a Back Aerial while going behind or or RARing, and mixing it up with Neutral Aerial's back hitbox! This is especially true because of the explosion hitbox occuring if it hits the ground, making it so approaching Bellossom can be tough even if this move whiffs. The ending lag is pretty managable as well.

When used under a Sunny Day, the Seed Bomb will absorb the power of the sun as it is in the air with it glowing a more and more magnificent sunny, bright orange-yellow. After one second of absorbing light, the explosion it creates will deal 15% damage and KO at 135%. This is the most easily obtainable of the buffs to Seed Bomb and can be done out of a shorthop Back Aerial if used within the Sunny Day beam, giving Bellossom a decent KO projectile to go along with the much stronger but much less commonly available Solar Beam. Two seconds has the Seed Bomb deal 20% damage and kill at 105%, which is extremely potent on a projectile this spammy! However, she has to buffer a full hop Back Aerial ASAP to get it to work from the ground, so most commonly she can only get this power by using it in the air. Finally, the strongest of all of these requires Bellossom to basically use this at the top of a stage or on some super tall stage or something: After FIVE SECONDS of gathering sunlight, the seed will burst outwards for 25% damage, kill at 70% and even have 1.5x the explosion range! You won't be seeing this except hyper-situationally, but it is super flashy to see a tiny seed glow bright and brighter until it explodes like the brilliant corona of a sun only Venusaur could reach!

Something to keep in mind is that since all of these require Sunny Day, you'll only be getting this hitbox off where it is actually covering (you in theory could land and bring it over to where you used Back Aerial, but there's no realistic way to do so and have the Back Aerial get powered up before it lands) and so it is a rather predictable option. This does improve Bellossom's stage control within that area quite a lot, though! Not only that, Seed Bomb has ANOTHER use with Bellossom's pollens! Put simply, if it explodes within one of Bellossom's pollens, it gains a bonus effect. Stun Spore adds a light paralyzing effect before the opponent is launched that makes it a bit safer, but if it is powered up to the five second form it becomes a full-on Deku Nut stun for the reward of setting that up with a cloud that only lasts 5 seconds itself! Poison Powder causes the foe to be poisoned for 4 seconds of 1% damage at base, 4 seconds of 2% damage with one Sunny Day charge level, 6 seconds of 2% damage with the two second charge and an absolutely grotesque 8 seconds of 4% damage if you get the heavy 5 second version! All of these help open up Venoshock as a kill option to boot, while making Seed Bomb into more of a kill move. Finally, Sleep Powder adds a set amount to the foe's Sleep Powder timer of 0.5 second for no Sunny Day charge, 1 second for the first level, 1.5 seconds with the second level and a complete, instant sleep with the 5 second charge! While normally Sleep Powder only puts the opponent to sleep on the ground, using a Seed Bomb with it causes it to work like Snooze and be able to put the opponent to sleep even in the air! Anyone who plays Hero knows how strong THAT can be.

Overall, Back Aerial sits next to Up Aerial as a true staple of Bellossom's salad heavy diet, and there's no reason NOT to use it quite a lot in any given match. Do watch out for reflectors, though!


Grab Game

Grab: Stubby Grip

Bellossom makes a little swipe forward with one of her hands, one of the fastest grabs in the game but also with one of the most pitiful ranges. Bellossom appreciates having a fast grab for defensive purposes, but the range can be truly depressing. Try using lingering hitboxes like Leech Seed to make it that little bit easier to land.

Pummel: Offended

Bellossom slaps the opponent in the face, having clearly taken offense to something they have said or done! 2% damage, standard speed.

Down Throw: Fury Dance

Tossing the foe to the ground like the garbage they are, Bellossom flexes her superiority by tap dancing all over them! Meta Knight would be proud. This deals a lot of rapid hits, specifically 7 of 0.7% for a total of 4.9%, a final slightly stronger stomp of 1.1% and then the actual landing of 2% that launches the opponent into the air for a final total of 8% damage. The knockback of this is low, aerial and slightly in front of Bellossom: Completely perfect for air combos! In fact, that's basically all you're going to be using this for: Until medium percentages, this attack leads into absolutely any of Bellossom's aerials for your own build-a-combo workshop (Forward Aerial dragdown can be especially mean!), or an Up Tilt if she wants. Knock enemies into the air for an early Up Aerial juggle, reverse your Forward Aerial to semi-spike them towards the ground to tech chase, Forward Aerial drag downs for more combo damage, Down Aerial just to flex because there isn't much of a reason to use it! It's really up to what the opponent is capable of and what Bellossom wants to do on what to pick.

One issue with this throw is fairly high knockback scaling. Compared to most combo Down Throw style moves, it kind of runs out of combo room at mid percentages faster than most, at which point it largely serves as a DI mixup with Up Throw for juggle starters, a move that might put opponents on higher platforms to tech, or a move where you can get aggressive but not combo off of it.


Forward Throw: Giga Drain

Lifting the opponent up to the best of her stubby ability, Bellossom digs into the foe with little grassy thorns and begins to drain the opponent of their life force! This has the same visual look of Giga Drain from the Stadium games and has Bellossom deal the foe 8% damage over a rather lengthy throw period. Bellossom, equally, HEALS 8% from this! While pretty light overall, Bellossom can have some surprising durability between this, Leech Seed and the like. The final hit does mediocre spacing knockback, of which it is not a great throw as there's enough ending lag that the enemy gets general frame advantage on Bellossom, although the foe should be knocked too far away to realistically punish Bellossom in any way and it is still Bellossom's main "spacing" style throw. Healing can be superior to damage situationally, such as if the opponent is going to die soon anyway and Bellossom would rather prep for the next stock or is at moderate damage vs. a fresh stock or whatever, so this can sometimes be even better than

This move can be buffed in two ways. You can use it under Sunny Day, or you can use it on an opponent who has a Leech Seed on them, both of which allow Bellossom to dig in deeper and drain the foe harder! Either one adds 4% damage to the mix along with healing Bellossom for 4% more, and both CAN be combined to boost this move to a kinda grotesque 16% damage, 16% healing throw! Knockback is unaffected but that's a potential 32% swing on but a mere throw, showing how underestimating Bellossom's power due to somewhat slow / not heavily damaging attacks can really backfire! The situational nature of it means you can't casually rely on that crazy level of throw, but both conditions are easy enough to meet that Bellossom can get at least one of them with relative commonality.


Up Throw: Headbutt

The simplest throw in Bellossom's moveset, she simply gets her head into the foe and performs an upwards headbutt! This deals 10% damage and moderately strong upwards knockback. It won't kill until 250% but is still Bellossom's "best" kill throw, which tells you that Bellossom has bad kill throws. The primary use of this is to let Bellossom begin juggles at almost any percent due to the high base knockback. The uses of this should be obvious: Your killer juggling Up Aerial, the upwards projectile Back Aerial, Up Smash if the opponent is poisoned and at a good kill percent, you get the idea. But one particularly insidious thing is that Solar Beam can cover almost anyone air dodging the above mentioned moves with its angleability and great duration, so having a Solar Beam ready makes this a real tough case where the opponent has to either air dodge to avoid a juggle and potentially die, try to use a fast attack which if baited out also leads to a Solar Beam, or take the hit and save the air dodge to react to a Solar Beam! Pretty nice, if you ask me.

Back Throw: Toxic

Bellossom twists around, opponent held close to her, and then spits some vibrant-yet-dark purple poison in the opponent's face! This coats the opponent in it as they are sent away with weak knockback and 3% damage, although the ending lag of this move prevents Bellossom from following up this move, and it isn't a great spacer either. To be honest, the actual throw portion of this is weak all around, but fortunately the poisonous status effect applied to the foe makes this into one of her big damage throws!

Fun fact: Did you know Bellossom is a rare Pokemon who learned Toxic by Level Up even when it was still a TM? She's putting that knowledge to good use here! Rather than just being afflicted with poison damage, the opponent is Badly Poisoned! This status effect lasts for 8 seconds and causes opponents to take increasing amounts of poison damage: First 0.5% every second for two seconds, then 1%, then 2% and finally 4% for the final two seconds! The end result of the damage is 15%, which when combined with the 3% of the throw itself is 18%, making it the most damaging throw in the game! Now, don't get too excited here. Bellossom can get more damage out of her Down Throw until mid percents. But past mid percents, this is the main throw you're going to want to use to get the foe's damage higher and higher. The fact it is a damage over time can be a detriment or a boon, either delaying the damage gain to make the foe easier to combo or the damage being taken later can make them harder to KO, it all just depends on when in the stock it is!

The other benefit is that, in another callback to the ol' Leech Seed/Toxic glitch, Badly Poisoned foes take twice as much damage from other sources of poison AND her Leech Seed! She'll heal extra from the additional damage too. A badly poisoned foe who is Leech Seeded will take waaaay too much damage to just stand inside and zone Bellossom out of it, for example. Poison Powder clouds become deadly damage racking zones that Bellossom can try to keep foes boxed inside of. This even affects acid, increasing the shield damage debuff from each Jab hit to 1.4x! It still caps out at 2x total, but it means Bellossom needs much less work to get some super cool shield damage on the foe. Finally, if you use Toxic on an already badly poisoned foe, it merely adds a new Toxic that begins at 0.5% in addition to the old one and they don't interact or double each other's damage or anything. That'd be a mite too silly when this move already has silly damage potential, yes?


Final Smash: Bright Flower of Sunlight

Calling down the sun in a ray in front of her as an activation hitbox, Bellossom makes a sad little noise and slumps forward if she whiffs. Should she hit, the game transitions to a brief cutscene of Bellossom doing a dance much like her 3D animations as the sun gets brighter and brighter, causing bright multicolored flower patches to burst out and hit the opponent over and over! This does four hits of 10%, kinda weak for a Final Smash, and kills at 80%, but it also coats the entire stage in sunlight for 20 seconds afterwards. Bellossom's healing potential goes through the roof during this time and Solar Beam can be charged over and over, so sometimes it is even better than a kill!
 

ForwardArrow

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
502


Valkyrie
The Valkyrie are a lancer class servant from the increasingly ridiculous Fate franchise, appearing in Fate/Grand Order. A hivemind of war maidens designed to fight for the Allfather, Odin, they seek out worthy warriors to take to Valhalla to help fight alongside them against threats to the Norse Pantheon and the people they worship. Originally, they were an emotionless bunch, but then Brynhildr, the eldest Valkyrie, fell in love with Sigurd, and so the rest of the hivemind all began to feel emotions alongside her... and most of them have no idea how to deal with that properly yet. In Fate/Grand Order, the Valkyrie servant consists of three Valkyries that each become available by progressing an Ascension, going from the oldest and least advanced Valkyrie to the most modern and strongest one... though their animations are basically identical and they're the same in gameplay, so its kinda hard to tell in practice. Speaking of said animations, you can check them out here.

The three Valkyries you get in the game are depicted in the above image. Thrud, the blonde one in the front, is the most recent model and has responded to having emotions by aggressively trying to suppress them and act like she doesn't have them. How well that's going for her is... up to debate. Hildr, the pink haired one, has largely just accepted her emotions and is a lot closer to a "normal person" amongst the strange robot girl hivemind of Valkyrie. As for Ortlinde, the black haired one, she's a lot more genuinely emotionless than the other two, starting to feel them but still at a point she hasn't learned quite how to process them yet. She's also the oldest and least efficient model of Valkyrie of the group.

In the main storyline, they're actually partially responsible for maintaining the second Lostbelt, a dying world where only a few thousand humans are kept alive, and routinely culled and used by the Valkyrie and their master in a bid to preserve the world long enough that they can fight off the omnipresent threat of Surtr and rebuild society. Unfortunately for them, preserving such a horribly decayed, pathetically small civilization against the fate of humanity just turns out not to be in anyone's best interests, forcing the timeline to be pruned. In that timeline, rather than serving Odin, they serve Skadi, the last remaining god in the Norse Pantheon desperately trying to hold the world together.

The Valkyrie have a pretty clear case of sameface going on, which is a genuine weakness of their artist, but it actually makes sense in this case because they're all similar members of the same hivemind. If you're asking why they share sameface with a bunch of unrelated characters too, that's uh. That's where the excuse breaks down but look it was clever for five seconds.

Stats

So before we get into the exact stats of each Valkyrie, the first point worth establishing ahead of time is that the Valkyries are effectively three echo fighters jammed into one set, one you'll be switching between throughout the match to get the most out of their abilities in a manner similar to Pyra/Mythra. That is to say, they all have the same moveset, but with differences in statistics and frame data, and a couple other small things you'll see throughout the set. But to start with qualities they share, every Valkyrie is about the same height, with Ortlinde being a tad shorter and Thrud being a tad taller, but not enough to make a significant differences in gameplay. For reference, Thrud's about Marth's height, so the other too are shorter than that by a not particularly important margin. The Valkyries are also all equipped with four jumps each, with different first jumps but their second, third, and fourth jumps are all small boosts into the air by flapping their wings like Meta Knight, which add a decent amount of height to their recovery and a lot of airtime.



Ortlinde, the oldest and least advanced model of Valkyrie, has a very middling set of stats. At a 1.8 dash speed and 1.16 air speed, Ortlinde's movement on the ground is decent, and her air speed is actually pretty high, but amongst the Valkyries neither stat is anything to write home about. With a weight of 96, she's a bit harder to knock off the blast zone than her light and floatly look would imply, because the Valkyries are actually one of the most longevity focused Lancers in the game! So she's not a total lightweight, although once again, not the best sister in that department. At 1.22 fall speed, she's also in the middle for Valkyries in terms of floatiness... which is to say they're all really, really floaty. Her first jump is pretty good and gets her decently high into the air, bolstering her recovery and airtime somewhat. Amongst the Valkyries, Ortlinde is not really the standout member of the team in terms of stats or her actual moveset, where she lacks the more extreme traits of her sisters... which kind of leaves her with the least useful niche on paper. That said, as an older piece of "technology", she's got a couple weird quirks that the more advanced models don't have that were taken out which are actually pretty helpful at times. And sometimes you just want a jack of all trades as Thrud and Hildr are both very flawed in their own rights.



Hildr is without a doubt the most extreme Valkyrie, perhaps due to being the most openly in touch with her emotions. However little that logic makes sense to you, she's the Valkyrie by far the least concerned with her durability, having only 63 weight and the worst first jump and Up Special of the group. Her recovery isn't bad, mind you, but its not what you'd hope for on a character this fragile, making switching to Hildr always a risk. She makes up for it other areas, at least. At 2.33 dash speed, she's one of the fastest characters in the game on the ground, and with 1.37 air speed, she has the best air speed of the entire cast! While hardly a fast faller, she's got 1.4 fall speed which pushes her to the lower middle of the cast in that regard... and actually comes with a unique 80% fast fall modifier to let her get back to the ground a tad quicker too. In terms of how she actually fights, Hildr's a glass cannon, with good combo potential, great mobility, and high power, but hilariously fragile defenses that make her easy to deal with once the opponent gets into advantage state.



Thrud acts as the slow, heavy hitting Valkyrie of the team, which actually means Ortlinde is the one with the least power overall by a good margin. Her stats, similarly, are outright heavyweight-esque, with a quite respectable 110 weight to really show how durable the Valkyries can be when they want to be. She has an impressively high first jump, too, and all in all has exceptional survivability compared to her counterparts. She's also very floaty, with 1.16 fall speed, the second lowest in the game even if Jigglypuff's an outlier, which does kind of make her combo food. Though this is alievated a bit by her model not being particularly big. Her air speed is a middling 1.06, not impressive for a Valkyrie but overall fine, and her dash speed is a miserable 1.44, which gives her pretty miserable ground mobility... so hey, there is a perk to being so floaty at least! Compared to a lot of heavies, Thrud's power isn't really as impressive, but she makes up for it in safety, having less punishable than expected end lag, and some respectable tools for escaping disadvantage. If you want, you can kind of sit around as her for a while if you get to high percents to stall out your death, but she's very predictable on offense and probably won't score a lot of damage without the help of her sisters, and certainly not many KOs.

Point is, every Valkyrie has a time and a place they're at their most useful, from the middling but slightly unorthodox Ortlinde, to the glass cannon Hildr, to the outright tank Thrud. Not to mention there are some very real bonuses for swapping between them that we'll get to as the set goes on. You can pick which Valkyrie you want to start as on the character select screen, all three are visible in the portrait and can be selected between akin to how you would with Pokemon Trainer. They all have the same spear they use as a weapon, comparable in size to Marth's sword but just a bit longer.

As a final note for the rest of the moveset, Ortlinde's damage percentages and frame data will be in grey, Hildr's will be in red, and Thrud's will be in yellow.

Specials

Down Special - Valkyrie Swap
And here's your move that transitions between Valkyries, with a similar very quick transition period to the Pyra/Mythra form swap at 35 frames of total lag. The animation is a simple flash of light where the previous Valkyrie disappears and the new one takes its place, nothing flashy. Its a fast transition that makes it easy to switch to what Valkyrie you want to on the go, and it even has a little bonus quality of life compared to a character like Pokemon Trainer. While Valkyries have a default swap order that can be accessed by simply tilting Down Special of Ortlinde > Hildr > Thrud > Ortlinde, you can access an alternate swap order of Ortlinde > Thrud > Hildr > Ortlinde by smashing the input. This lets you switch to any other Valkyrie whenever you like!

There's a bit more to this move than that, mind you. You can charge this transition for half a second, the Valkyrie's aura glowing progressively brighter as you do. If you do pull that off, you have another half second to rapidly enter up to three attack inputs, as the old Valkyrie you were currently playing actually stays in! At the end of the half second of transition, the new Valkyrie you control spawns in above them by about Ganondorf height and very slightly behind the old Valkyrie. From there, the old Valkyrie will use the attacks you've input in quick succession, effectively providing cover fire for the new Valkyrie you're controlling. This Valkyrie sticking around to help briefly, from this point forward, will be referred to as the Assistant Valkyrie.

This has its upsides and downsides, because the Valkyries share a damage percentage due to being linked as a hive mind. And unfortunately, the Assistant Valkyrie staying out also takes damage, giving the foe two hurtboxes to work with at once. That said, the Valkyrie also has 8% worth of super armor before attacks can actually interrupt them out of their assault. So you can't just poke them out super casually with a Jab, which can be frustrating when the playable Valkyrie is pressuring you simultaneously. If an Assistant Valkyrie takes enough damage to break their super armor, they'll simply vanish in a flash of light after taking the hit, ending their aid.

This, along with the increased lag, makes the doubling up something you want to use when you manage to force an opening on the opponent rather than just throw out whenever. Even if you did want to spam this, there's an 8 second cooldown between uses of the charged version of this move, indicated by the portraits of the two Valkyries you're not using being dulled to a greyer shade that brightens up when the move comes off cooldown. The power of two desynced attacks at once, however, is something that time and time again has proven incredibly effective in fighting games, and the Valkyries make good use of it. Hildr and Thrud cover each other's weaknesses rather well, and Ortlinde's gimmicks tend toward giving the other Valkyries a boost... plus if you just want to double up on Thrud or Hildr's best qualities Ortlinde can do it better than their opposite can.

Neutral Special - Nova
The Valkyrie rises a short distance into the air as light radiates off their body, growing rapidly in intensity until it shines so brightly it burns the opponent for 3 hits of 3%, 3%, and 12%, 3 hits of 5%, 5% and 17%, and 3 hits of 4%, 4%, and 22% respectively. This deals knockback that KOs at 115%, 65%, and 50% depending on which Valkyrie you're using, with Thrud and Hildr obviously being much better at KOing with this move. This is a bit more varied between Valkyries than just in damage and knockback, however, as the radius of the light also changes. Ortlinde's covers an area about as 1.4x as big as Bowser around herself, Hildr's is actually a bit on the small size and covers an area a bit smaller than Bowser, and Thrud's covers a whopping 2x Bowser sized blast radius! The light's color also depends on your Valkyrie, Ortlinde using a pretty standard white light, Hildr having a bright pink light, and Thrud's being a vibrant gold. While the Valkyrie will stall in the air on her first use of this move in the air, on subsequent uses she will continue to fall(at a slightly decreased rate) during the animation, preventing using this to hover away from the stage obnoxiously for too long.

While Thrud is seeming like the exemplar Valkyrie here, we haven't gotten into the frame data yet, and its bad for everyone. The move takes 45 frames, 33 frames, and 95 frames of start lag depending on which Valkyrie you're using, meaning Ortlinde and Hildr's variants can certainly land off a hard read, whereas Thrud's is really only going to land under some very specific circumstances. While very predictable, you can try to edgeguard with it, you can land it off a shield break, and you can use it to apply terrifying amounts of pressure when two Valkyries are attacking at once. There are some invincibility frames to make these moves a bit more useful, Ortlinde getting her's on the last 15 frames of the start lag, Hildr only gets the last 8 frames, and Thrud gets a whopping 45 frames where she's invulnerable. Plus while Ortlinde and Thrud have modest end lag they can easily transition out of if the opponent got out of your face, Hildr is not so lucky, having painful end lag after this move that is easily punished.

Nova's role in the Valkyries' kit is honestly a pretty simple one, its a move basically designed to be used alongside swapping your Valkyrie to provide a big, scary hitbox the opponent wants to avoid. Thrud has the biggest and scariest one, but its not easy to land even if you or the Assistant Valkyrie you left behind to help you are pressuring the foe into it, but it does cover a huge swath of space and can easily zone the foe out, and gives the highest reward if you do combo the foe into it. Hildr can actually kind of use this move on her own without help, as 33 frames of start lag is a hard read but the radius is still decent sized and the power is astronomical. You just really cannot afford to whiff it... though given its invincibility frames activate the fastest, however brief they are, its the best move for powering through an enemy Smash attack of the three when you do pull it off.

Ortlinde's variant is probably the easiest to use is combination with one of her sisters, with both a larger radius and less punishability if used by the player rather than the pre-programmed sister on their way out. The reward is definitely the lowest at face value, but you can get a little more out of it because it has one of Ortlinde's gimmicks. See, in her case, the light will actually stay on the foe, leaving them glowing for 7.5 seconds after they get hit by this move. This applies a debuff to the foe that causes them to take 1.3x as much damage from all attacks to them, with the same knockback applied as if they were at their normal percent. This can result in you netting the highest amount of damage off this version if you land some good combos afterwards... and also, that "no knockback modifier" bit only applies to attacks that deal 12% or less. Ones that deal more than that get a 1.1x knockback modifier on top of the boost from damage, so it can actually lead to some pretty impressively early kills for Hildr and Thrud, on top of high damage combos in Hildr's case. What it lacks in baseline power, it makes up for in utility.

Making the best use of Nova and Assistant Valkyries together requires some quick thinking on the player's part. The easiest way to work with it is to delegate the use of Nova to the Assistant Valkyrie, to deny a big section of the stage and potentially pressure the foe into it with your main Valkyrie. That said, you can more strategically position and time your Nova if you're in control of the Valkyrie using it, so with a bit of tricky play you can sandwich the foe in an inconvenient position between the two Valkyries and then purge them with light from a much more optimal angle and timing. You can even double up on Novas if one Valkyrie is about to transition into additional attacks while the other begins their Nova, a risky strategy but one that can double up on your chances to land a Nova on transition by scoring a shield break after the foe blocks the first Nova or with clever pressure out of the first Nova into a second one!

Side Special - Primeval Rune
A light shines down upon the Valkyrie, a slight rainbow effect glinting off their spear. They then swoop forward almost instantly with their spear out, floating slightly off the ground with their wings, before stabbing it at an upwards angle at the end. This goes forward a little more than a Battlefield Platform in width for Ortlinde and Thrud, and a little less than a Battlefield Platform in width for Hildr, and the movement goes up at a 20 degree angle in the air but puts the Valkyrie into helpless. This has 14 frames, 8 frames, and 17 frames of start up lag respectively, and deals 7%, 3%, and 12% during the actual rush. Ortlinde deals some moderate upward knockback on her rush that scales poorly, Hildr's deals a flinch that gives her an actual frame disadvantage on hit, and Thrud's upward knockback will actually scale to kill at 175%. The sweetspot is the spear thrust at the end, which deals 11%, 14%, and 18% respectively with upwards knockback that KOs at 200%, 130%, and 100%. All three variants have punishable end lag if they whiff, with Thrud having the least end lag and Hildr having the most, but its dangerous to whiff the move on any of them.

For all three Valkyries, this is a pretty good tool for catching out foes at a range with the near instantaneous movement, but its power is pretty dependent on its sweetspot. If you hit with the body of this move, you're getting pretty minimal reward with Ortlinde for the lag/risk involved and outright hurting yourself as Hildr as the foe will likely hit you back harder than you hit them. The good news is that the hitbox size of the actual thrust at the end of the move is pretty generous, and if you're playing Thrud you get both a less punishable bout of end lag and a pretty good hitbox throughout the entire move. In exchange, her lag is plenty reactable so its harder to catch foes out with the sweetspot compared to the others. When you have out an assistant Valkyrie pressuring the foe, this move is great for rushing in behind them at an inconvenient window for the opponent's counteroffensive or defenses. Its something its good at on all Valkyries, but for Hildr its particularly nice given the very low start lag makes this move very hard to react to properly.

The light shining down on the Valkyrie is not actually just cosmetic, its indicative of Odin/Skadi's blessing up on that Valkyrie(its up to interpretation at the end of the day). If the Valkyrie lands the sweetspot of this attack, the blessing will actually stick around after the move, as the light remains shining on the Valkyrie for their next 3, 1, or 2 attacks. Ortlinde, getting the most out of this gimmick, even gets a bonus for a single attack if she lands the sourspot! In game, this effect buffs Quick cards, so in Smash it improves the Valkyries' agility when recovering from an attack, taking a swifter, smoother and light imbued animation to their end lag on any given attack. This cuts the end lag of any given attack by 0.6x, give or take a couple frames depending on the move.

While Ortlinde's version of the move is the worst version of this move in terms of functioning as an actual attack, its still plenty worth going for with her for the sake of the buffs it provides her... and for that matter both of the other Valkyries! See, if you switch Valkyries while the buff is active, the new Valkyrie gets the buff. Given Hildr has the most end lag-related struggles and the fact she has the worst blessing reward, this is an extra incentive to switch to another Valkyrie and then back to Hildr to let her go crazy spamming her high power, high speed, but punishable kit if you landed the sweespot with Ortlinde! Thrud and Ortlinde can still make good use of this mechanic on their own too, Thrud becoming frustratingly hard to punish and Ortlinde getting a considerable boost to her combo potential, so if you don't want to rusk Hildr's low weight there is a backup option. Hildr doesn't really need to gain the buff for the move to be useful for her anyway, being able to just kill a foe from frame 8 a platform away is enough reward on its own, especially since she does get a single buffed attack afterwards.

Landing this move a second time while the buff is already in place will simply refresh the number of blessed attacks to whatever amount that Valkyrie provides, or not expend one if the Valkyrie would give you less blessed attacks than you currently have stored up. If an Assistant Valkyrie lands this move, it'll refresh in the same way it would if the main Valkyrie hit it, the blessing shifting over to the one you're controlling after the hit lands. Lastly, I shouldn't have to tell you that combining this with an Assistant Valkyrie is some very, very powerful pressure, but considering the telegraph of an assisted Valkyrie Swap and the fact that you get a very small number of boosted attacks, it probably should be.

Up Special - Ride of the Valkyries
Spreading their wings behind them and holding their spear beneath them, the Valkyrie jets off in a direction you can freely choose on the control stick, followed by a second one which you can pick the direction of akin to Pikachu's Quick Attack. The way this move varies between Valkyries is a bit unique, as they all have a 21 frame start up as they get into position for it, but they each get different payouts for that admittedly somewhat lengthy startup.

To start with Hildr, as Ortlinde has a slightly more unorthodox variant, she only travels about 0.6x the distance Quick Attack goes per movement, but deals a respectable 6% and weak knockback in the direction she's traveling that only scales by a very tiny amount, noticeable at about 50% intervals. Despite the move's lackluster range, it does have one thing going for it: the landing lag is extremely short, making this move easy to combo off if you end it on the ground! Combined with the varied angles of approach you can take, this can make for a pretty solid approach due to the quick movement mixups it offers and the fact that you can immediately go into Jab for some pretty respectable combo strings out of it. The range leaves a bit to be desired though, and it does mean Hildr's recovery is the least impressive of the Valkyries. Mind you, its still really good, but its not borderline unbeatable like the recoveries of Thrud and Ortlinde.

Thrud's recovery actually goes 1.25x as far as quick attack with each movement, which is actually straight up ridiculous recovery distance for a move that's coming off a character with 4 jumps. She deals 12% and knockback at a high diagonal angle on contact that kills at 210%, mostly because the angle isn't great for killing, but it does get her good space. The downside is, admittedly, that the move actually has a decent amount of lag between the first and second movements, so it does make the move significantly more predictable as an approaching option, and punishable if the foe is close or has a convenient projectile for punishing as the landing lag is quite bad, she's best off snapping to a ledge with this move if she can unlike Hildr. It does have the decency to go past shields, however, a luxury it should be noted Hildr and Ortlinde's Up Specials do not have.

Ortlinde's has the interesting benefit of having three movements compared to Pikachu's 2, but each goes as far as Hildr's Up Special does individually and only deals 4% and knockback similar to what Hildr's deals. Ortlinde also has enough landing lag that she's not going to combo off this, though its not super punishable to land out of it either. By comparison to Thrud and Hildr, Ortlinde's recovery is the actual hardest one to respond to as she makes two rapid turns, ducking and weaving around any attempt for the opponent to intercept her recovery. This is partially notable for Ortlinde because it makes gimping attempts with her aerials very safe because of how easily she can get back to the stage around any obstruction from the opponent, the sole worry being the 21 frames of startup her recovery has. And that is bad, but with 4 jumps, you can at least reasonably work around it, though the move unfortunately lacks much offensive utility as Hildr's or even Thrud's, which at least deals respectable damage and gets the foe out of your face for a minute to set up a flashier play.

Up Special can be handy for spacing an Assistant Valkyrie around, requiring some very fast fingers to use properly as you'll need to put in the extra directional inputs(which aren't counted towards the three input total) in the same time period. But the reward is pretty worthwhile if used properly, allowing you to mix up the position of your Assistant Valkyrie pretty hard and in the case of Hildr set up some very formidable combos. Ortlinde in particular you can move to an unexpected and horribly inconvenient spot for the foe in a pattern that's very hard to predict with her three movements, making it much harder for foes to dodge the subsequent combo or Nova setup. While Thrud probably gets the least mileage out of this move as an Assistant Valkyrie, she can cover a very large chunk of the stage in a decently potent hitbox while repositioning herself, which can do its fair share of work in setting up flashier plays for Ortlinde or Hildr.

Standards

Jab - One Two Three
The Valkyrie performs a top to bottom sweep with their lance, followed by a bottom to top sweep, and then a more forceful second top to bottom sweep with both hands on the lance. A slightly modified version of one of the Valkyrie quick animations, the three hits deals 4%, 3%, and 5%, 2%, 2%, and 6%, and 5%, 4%, and 7% depending on which Valkyrie you're playing. The first hit comes out on Frame 3, 5, and 9 respectively, and regardless of Valkyrie the hits link together safely. This move is also pretty safe regardless of which Valkyrie you're playing, but its especially so with Ortlinde when this move has pretty impressive range for a Jab and it comes out on Frame 3.

As for the reward, on Ortlinde and Thrud there's no point in stopping before the final hit if you land it, and in Thrud's case this even applies on Shield as Thrud's Jab deals a bit of extra shield stun to let the hits link together! As an assistant Valkyrie or with the help of one, this can lead to some pretty juicy Shield Break setups into Thrud's incredibly powerful Nova, so its not something to be underestimated. The final hit doesn't confirm many true combos aside from Fair at low percents for Ortlinde, and has zero true combos for Thrud because the knockback is too high for that. That said, Thrud's knockback is at a somewhat lower angle that, while not low enough to cause techs, sets up quite well for Side Special. Keep in mind its a considerably more slower move though, one foes can certainly weave around or beat in neutral. Hildr's variant isn't as safe Ortlinde's or as impactful and good at shield pressure as Thrud's, to the point it leaves room for a light punishment if it gets shielded. That said, the second hit in Hildr's combo has lower end lag and can confirm into some grounded combos off its flinching knockback, while the third hit has higher combo potential than Ortlinde's into aerials! This gives her a pretty nice set of branching options out of this move with her Nair/Fair off hit three and FTilt/DTilt/Dash Attack off hit two, though keep in mind the delay you need to take to go back to Jab one means you're not going to be getting any dumb Jab loop nonsense like this.

For the sake of actually being able to get mileage out of Jab with the Valkyrie Swap and to not force players to have to mash A a billion times, a single A press will have the assistant Valkyrie perform all three hits of the Jab combo. I shouldn't need to tell you why linking three hits together on the foe pretty much automatically is good while you're controlling another Valkyrie, and Thrud's has the aforementioned benefit of wrecking shields. This is one of your go to moves for an Assistant Valkyrie, but you probably shouldn't repeat the same move too much when there's the 30 frame telegraph before the both Valkyries can start attacking, as opponents are given more than enough time to prepare for it if you're predictable.

Forward Tilt - Guarded Assault
The Valkyrie performs a quick swing of their shield in front of them, followed by a forward stab with their lance, the lance glowing slightly on the stab. The shield slam hits on Frame 9, 5, or 11 and deals a consistent 5% regardless of your choice of Valkyrie. The stab deals 6%, 7%, and 10% depending on Valkyrie and confirms out of the bash regardless of percent, and Ortlinde's combos into her Fair until decent percents. For Hildr the knockback scales faster so it only combos into Fair briefly, but given Hildr's Fair is quite powerful the smaller window is entirely warranted. Thrud's not comboing into anything, but she can kill with this move around 160%, and it can be a fair bit lower at the ledge.

The shield actually provides the Valkyrie with a bit of armor while they're swinging it, but how much depends on the Valkyrie. Ortlinde gets 10% heavy armor from frames 6-12 of the move, Hildr gets 8% heavy armor for frames 4-7, and Thrud gets 16% heavy armor from frames 5-15. Hildr barely gets any extra defense from this move and 8% armor being pretty easy to punch through, while for Thrud its actually quite easy to use this to power through enemy attacks and hit them back for a respectable 15% total. Ortlinde's armor lets the move beat out other melee moves a bit more easily than it otherwise would, but its not particularly hard to break through and and still covers a small window of the move's startup. That said, if you DO manage to intercept a foe's attack with it, Ortlinde's lance glows more intensely on the second hit, dealing 13% and knockback that KOs at 100%! The window to pull this off is small and you need to intercept a weak move to do it, but that's pretty ferocious for a move that's meant to be thrown out casually in neutral due to its defensive properties. One of your better rewards for sticking around with Ortlinde in spite of her slightly lackluster power elsewhere.

Like Jab, if you use this move for an Assistant Valkyrie, they'll always perform both hits of the combo. One thing to keep in mind with those move, however, is that the range on the shield bash is bad, and it takes quite a bit for the actual stab to come out given you have to go through said shield bash first. This hurts the move's utility in neutral a bit, as while defensively its good(or mediocre on Hildr), the lack of range makes it a bit hard to combo into barring a couple specific Hiildr or Assistant Valkyrie setups and also makes it pretty easy to defend against itself.

Up Tilt - Shield Bash
The Valkyrie shoves her shield up over her head in a quick upwards bash, coming out on Frame 6, 5, or 8 depending on which Valkyrie you have out, with heavy armor that blocks hits of up to 12%, 8%, or 18% from frame 3 up through the duration of the hitbox. It deals 6%, 7%, or 9% with weak upwards knockback that for Ortlinde and Hildr sets up Nair and Uair, while for Thrud it really only sets up Uair which isn't a true combo out of it either. The lack of range is made up for with this move by its ability to power through aerials, converting the opponent's approach into your own combo, and while "own combo" might be a bit generous with Thrud, she at least benefits from having a larger armor window and greater damage on the actual hitbox.

Hildr actually gets her own little bonus on the move that makes it both less safe and an even better combo tool. She actually hops up into the air about half her own height during this move, considerably increasing the range... at the cost of making it less capable of intercepting short hop-based aerial approaches, only really able to knock foes out of one higher up in the air. In exchange, it goes from a short range counteroffensive tool to being a far better offensive option. Ortlinde's Up Tilt is middle of the road as always, but she has the highest potential reward out of Nair, so at least what it leads into gives it some advantages over Hildr's version.

Down Tilt - Low Sweep
The Valkyrie sweeps their spear low to the ground, with good reach and shield poke potential that comes out on Frame 7, 6, or 12. This pops the opponent up into the air for Ortlinde and Hildr and deals 8% or 6%, with Hildr having slightly better ability to convert off of it due to lower end lag. Its not a great combo move either way, mostly just serving as another Fair setup with less damage of its own and a smaller window to combo into it than FTilt, in exchange for being longer ranged and less predictable while going under shields. Hildr definitely appreciates having a tool to pop opponents out of shields as she can struggle with them a bit, and between the range and the lag this isn't a particularly punishable move for either of the two.

Thrud has the most exciting variant of this move, because its actually her combo tool, and a surprisingly good one! See, Thrud's Down Tilt actually deals upwards and inwards knockback, and also deals a respectable 10%. It combos into Thrud's Up Tilt/Nair early and can also situationally go into Uair/Bair at certain percents or with mixups. It can also be used by an Assistant Thrud to throw opponents into your currently controlled Valkyrie, or Thrud to throw an opponent backwards into a Nova or a Smash behind her. Given how Thrud's actually pretty good at shield pressure, the opponent's shield will struggle to stay at full health against her, meaning she has some of the best opportunities of the trio to capitalize on the shield poking properties too!

Ortlinde's variant actually has a bit of light magic flare across the floor a short distance past the edge of her spear, which is extremely flat against the stage and only deals 3% and a flinch. Ortlinde won't have much luck comboing into anything off of it... until pretty high percents where the knockback will start popping the opponent up, giving her a late combo starter out of her sourspot! It also shield pokes even better than the other versions, needing only the slightest bit of chip to sneak under the opponent's shield and adds a little range. Its more situational than the benefits of Thrud's version, but when the foe's at higher percents its sneakily useful.

Dash Attack - Stand Aside
The Valkyrie stops their dash to perform a rather dramatic forward swing of their lance, coming out on Frame 16, 12, or 15, and deals 13%, 14%, or 16% and knockback that KOs at 155%, 145%, or 135%. Due to the heavy horizontal angling of this attack, those percentages get considerably better near the ledge, and the move bursts the Valkyrie forward a half battlefield platform length during the start lag. The end lag is a bit annoyingly long, and particularly punishable for Hildr, but its a respectable KO move that comes out earlier than most of your other options for a kill. This is compounded by the fact that it and Side Special actually cover for each other a bit. Dash Attack's sudden burst of movement and slightly exaggerated sweep lets it cover the area that would serve as the sourspot of Side Special quite nicely, letting the Valkyries passively threaten an entire battlefield platform sized zone in front of them between their two movement options. While for Thrud and Ortlinde, this stuff is all reactable so its not too scary, Hildr has unreactable KO moves covering an entire battlefield platform in front of her, forcing foes to rely on predicting her and making her mere presense a lot scarier. If she screws up she gets punished big time, but that's the price you pay for this level of passive threat at high percents.

Ortlinde's version seems obviously the worst from a pure number's standpoint, but it does have one neat little trick going for it over the other versions. Rather than just charging in, Ortlinde will actually weave back before darting forward, letting her move out of the way of attacks directed at her during a dash and swoop in to hit the foe out of their move! This gives Ortlinde a sort of "dodge + attack" move that counters moves that would break through her guard on FTilt, and actually means the attack covers a little area behind where she started the dash attack, letting her surprise people who try to back roll behind her! Having yet another move like this emphasizes that while Ortlinde might be outmodded in terms of actual power by her counterparts, she has enough weird tricks to mess with an opponent both in neutral and while she's approaching to keep her a viable option, just to mix up the people who were used to the more conventional Valkyrie patterns. It can certainly get inside the opponent's head that they have to react differently to Dash Attack coming off Ortlinde compared to the other two, after all.


Smashes

Forward Smash - Impale
Pulling back with some slightly dramatic wind up and an intense glow on their spear, the Valkyrie stabs forward, light flaring off the end of the spear as an outright extension of the already quite long reaching thrust! This comes out on Frame 20, 16, or 23 depending on which Valkyrie you're using, with three different hitboxes. The body of the spear deals 9%-13% (KOs at 180%-150%), 14%-20% (KOs at 130%-95%), and 16%-22%(KOs at 120%-80%), while the head of the spear deals 19%-26%(KOs at 80%-45%), 18%-25%(KOs at 105%-65%), and 20%-28%(KOs at 95%-55%) respectively. The light past the spearhead deals 13%-19%(KOs at 150%-100%), 5%-7%(KOs at irrelevant percents), and 10%-14%(KOs at 170%-130%). The knockback is all within 10 degrees of a 30 degree diagonal, with Hildr/the Light having higher angles and the Thrud/the spear tip having lower angles, but its all lower angled knockback aimed at killing off the side.

Now that's a lot of numbers to hit you with at once, so let's break down the implications of them. Thrud is the heavy hitter of the bunch, with her entire spear being a capable kill move and even the light sourspot being respectable. She also has the least end lag of the three, and deals some extra shield damage and push with this move, making it hard to punish against both dodges and shields to make up for her bad start lag. Hildr's entire spear is a capable KO move, not to the same degree as Thrud's, but she makes up for it by having 7 less frames of start lag... although the sourspot is pretty terrible on this one, meaning Hildr doesn't get to take advantage of this move's extra range as much as the others do. She also has the worst end lag, making her quite punishable, though its just low enough that the foe's options to respond become shockingly limited if she's got a blessing. Actually, it puts her in the unique position to be able to combo off the light sourspot, which turns her from having a pretty useless extra hitbox to being able to utilize the extra range of this move to a different and potentially devastating effect!

Ortlinde really has to make use of this move's range to get full mileage out of it, as any hit that's not either the(admittedly somewhat generous) tipper is very lackluster for the lag. That said, 80% is a pretty nasty KO percent, and she has by far the best light hitbox barring a blessing on Hildr as it should still get the foe out of your face with a respectable amount of damage. Ortlinde's version is the one you'll get the most mileage out of in an Assistant Valkyrie scenario, as the slightly specific hitbox becomes much easier to pull off when you have another Valkyrie zoning the foe out or locking them down in hitstun. All three versions are respectable kill moves that get full mileage out of the range of a Valkyrie's spear and then some, though,

Up Smash - Odin's Light
Looking up to the sky and spreading their wings, the Valkyrie fires a wave of light upwards, with a glowing point like a star at the center of it. This is a bit like Lucas' Up Smash mixed with Snake's, with the Lucas part really being the main hitbox, we'll get to the Snake part as we go. The initial wave of light covers a decent sized spherical hitbox above the Valkyrie that deals 17%-24%, 19%-26%, or 21%-29% and upwards knockback that KOs 100%-60%, 90%-55%, and 75%-50% respectively. It comes out on Frame 22, 21, or 27 depending on your Valkyrie and the hitbox actually lingers for a solid 25 frames, but depletes in power to only half the damage and knockback that won't kill until the mid-200%'s even for Thrud after the initial hitbox. The end lag after this hitbox fades is not actually all that bad, but in conjunction with the duration this is absolutely a move you will be punished for whiffing, but its long duration is great for catching out air dodges and its good range makes it respectable against enemy aerials. Still, the start lag and duration make this a move you really can't throw out super casually.

With all that said, the Snake's Up Smash component does come in after the move ends in a somewhat unique way. The star of light will be launched up out of the light wave and slowly descend back to earth as a weak hitbox that deals 2% and a small flinch on contact. The light disappears after it hits the foe and the flinch is more just useful for interrupting attacks than as a combo extender with how few frames it stuns the foe, but Hildr and Ortlinde will occasionally extend a combo with it. It takes about a second and a half for the star to descend from its peak of about 1.5 Ganondorf heights above the Valkyrie to ground level, fizzling out either on the floor or if it lands in the air at the same height where the Valkyrie's feet were planted on the ground.

This weird little hitbox isn't much to talk about on its own, but it detonates when hit by one of the Valkyrie's attacks! There's some hitlag on contact with it before it bursts into a cone of light in the direction of the knockback of the attack that hit it! It deals 8%-20% and knockback that KOs at 210%-80% based on the power of the attack that hit it, attacks that deal less than 5% causing the 8% hitbox and attacks that deal more than 24% causing the 20% hitbox, to give an idea of the power range. The knockback is always upwards angled but with a horizontal tilt based on the horizontal angle of the attack that hit it and subsequent cone of light. Also, multi-hit attacks that come out in rapid enough succession such as Forward Aerial(we'll get to it, but its a rapid stabbing kind of move) will deal all their hits to the star before it explodes! The cone of light ranges in size from half Bowser's width to Bowser's width depending on the strength of the move that hit it, so its a pretty big blast for opponents to worry about.

This more or less gives the Valkyries a way to extend their hitboxes, wear through shields and dodges, and generally make more out of their big power hits than they would otherwise. You can use this to extend Forward Smash, for example, to have even greater range and catch most spot dodge attempts on it, getting the most out of the scary tipper hitbox by adding a sizeable cone of light to it. You do have to go through the lengthy Up Smash to get it, but its a pretty scary hitbox for foes to worry about.

This move gets really crazy in conjunction with an Assistant Valkyrie. You don't need me to tell you just how easy it is to activate to cone of light when another Valkyrie is throwing out hitboxes on top of the one using Up Smash, able to activate it much earlier and from a wider and more unpredictable arrange of angles than before, all while the other Valkyrie can go into their own string of attacks! Its pretty potent stuff, and frankly, even the actual hitbox is really good with an Assistant Valkyrie before the star comes out. 25 frames of duration is a huge period for the Up Smash to just wall off part of the air, and the early hitbox is an extremely potent move to combo the foe into with a large blast radius. Think of it kind of like a less powerful, more versatile alternative to Nova...

Oh, speaking of Nova. If you hit the star with Nova specifically, it will explode in a copy of that Nova centered on the star, allowing you to effectively double up on Novas. I should not need to tell you how potent this is, but its insanely predictable for one Valkyrie to go for and Thrud flat out cannot do it on her own when her Nova has 90 frames of start lag. But the foe will take all the hits of the one Nova before getting hit by the second where the two hitboxes overlap, effectively doubling the damage it deals in the place where the two Novas overlap, while also increasing the size of the hitbox a pretty considerable amount even beyond that. This can let Thrud cover an area 3x the size of Bowser in a giant death hitbox, the central Bowser sized area of it dealing 60% and knockback that KOs at 20%, while Thrud and Ortlinde's attacks come out fast enough they can actually kind of be weaved into strings between the two Valkyries rather than just threatening that hitbox. Like yeah, Up Smash and Nova are both laggy enough its not a very natural feeling string, but you'll still have parts of it where both Valkyries can apply other pressure. As a final note, if you get the overlapping hitboxes of two Ortlinde Novas, the opponents debuff is actually doubled in strength, causing them to take 1.6x damage and, if the base damage of the attack is over 12%, 1.2x knockback on top of that. It won't kill as early as the other double Novas but it sure will leave the opponent in a situation any random Hildr combo will probably just kill them at that point!

Down Smash - Perimeter Sweep
Holding her shield out in front of her, the Valkyrie sweeps their spear around in front of and then behind them, the spear's glow intensifying on the backwards part of the sweep. The shield goes up on Frame 7, 9, or 6, and the actual sweep comes out on Frame 15, 13, or 17 respectively. The sweep deals 10%-14% (KOs at 220%-180%), 14%-19%(KOs at 140%-100%), or 16%-22%(KOs at 125%-90%) on the front hit and 19%-26%(KOs at 90%-55%), 18%-25%(KOs at 100%-60%), or 17%-24%(KOs at 110%-70%) on the back hit. This knockabck is always at a high diagonal, not purely vertical but basically always KOing off the top blast zone if it does kill. The shield being held up gives 15% heavy armor, 10% heavy armor, or flat out super armor on the front of the Valkyrie. This move doesn't have particularly bad end lag, Hildr's being a bit worse as usual, but the duration due to the slight delay between the two sweeps does make it a pretty punishable move to whiff.

Down Smash holds an interesting dual purpose in the Valkyrie's set, serving as both a punisher move for misplaced aggression and also rolls behind them. Hildr's is the specialized towards the punisher aspect, coming out quicker and actually having more power on the back hit than Thrud's version despite that. Thrud's sweep barely gets stronger on the back hit, but with full super armor from frames 6-17, its a pretty scary way to intercept opponent's assaults in neutral with a counterhit that has respectable kill power. And Ortlinde excels at both, in part because her back hit is actually the strongest of the three Valkyries so she punishes back rolls the hardest. The other part is, if the opponent strikes her shield, the front hit becomes as strong as the back hit, similarly to the boost she gets if foes strike her shield on FTilt. Admittedly, the front hit is pretty bad if you're Ortlinde and not really where you'd want your Down Smash to be, but having one technique that responds to both offense and sneaky rolls makes this move a very useful if risky neutral tool in winning predictions.

For a couple bonus uses of this move, the front and back coverage on a Valkyrie is pretty useful in an Assistant Valkyrie setup, as you aren't guarunteed what side of your Assistant Valkyrie the opponent will be if they manage to evade their initial assault. Down Smash can catch out an opponent behind them while still pressuring an opponent in front of them, and can even potentially punish a foe trying to aggressively remove them with the super armor and counterhit. Its also worth mentioning that since you have a good attack to counter back rolls, if the opponent wants to roll away from you that's one of the best scenarios to pull off Side Special. That's a particularly easy read to make with Hildr and her 8 frame Side Special, so Down Smash's ability to scare off back rolls against her is quite useful there.

Aerials

Neutral Aerial - Spear Spin
The Valkyrie spins a spear in a circle around herself, with pretty respectable coverage that only misses covering the bottom of their hurtbox by a small amount. This move comes out on Frame 7, 5, or... 3 in the case of Thrud, a rarity for her. That's because Thrud actually spins the spear twice on her Nair, a swifter starting spin followed by a stronger spin designed to knock foes away! This deals 8%, 9%, and 3% followed by 9%, with Hildr's dealing it mostly horizontal knockback, Ortlinde's dealing knockback on a medium diagonal, and Thrud's dealing knockback at a high diagonal. In Hildr and Ortlinde's case, the knockback is enough that they can potentially chain a couple Nairs together through use of their jumps, Hildr's dealing low enough knockback she can even do some light "Nairplaning". She has a bit too much end lag to immitate the likes of Palutena, but that's probably a good thing because Palutena isn't equipped with 4 jumps, Hildr actually being able to do longer strings than her with good reads. That's far from guarunteed mind you and most opponents will punish your frail form for being so mindless, but going from a couple Nairs into a Fair is a pretty formidable combo in terms of damage as is.

Thrud's Nair really does too much knockback to combo, and its hurt by her having longer end lag than her sisters regardless. What its useful for is not as a combo tool, but as a combo breaker. I mentioned earlier Thrud has some problems being combo food with her weight/floatiness, but this gives her a great tool to break out of not true combos by virtue of the fact that it comes out so fast. Yeah, you're not landing anything else off it, and using it on the offensive runs the risk of whiffing and actually getting a pretty sizeable punish, but it emphasizes alongside her kill moves being less punishable on the back end and her greater amount of heavy/super armor that Thrud has an impressive level of survivability to make up for what are otherwise very real heavyweight flaws.

Ortlinde's Nair is on paper the black sheep of the group with its end lag is worse than Hildr's so it combos into itself and Fair for less time, and its too slow to do the kind of combo breaking Thrud's does. Ortlinde does, at the very least, have one nice part of her Fair, and that's a sweetspot about 50 degrees below horizontal in her swing that deals 15% and almost entirely horizontal knockback that KOs at 130%. This is actually a seriously good KO move hampered by how brief and small the buffed hitbox is, only out for one frame of the spin and in a pretty specific hitbox on that frame. Its incredible for offstage kills when you pull it off in conjunction with how far Ortlinde can go via Up Special and her jumps, though, and that's not even all its good for. At lower percents on stage, it can actually force techs due to the super low angle of the knockback! Then you can read them with a Down Smash, Side Special, Forward Smash... maybe even a Nova if you're really clever, and this is before we even get into all the disgusting things things you could manage with an Assistant Valkyrie. Ortlinde's Nair sweetspot is an extremely potent part of an otherwise mediocre move that makes Ortlinde's air game much scarier when you can threaten its existence. And between her incredible amount of air time, Nair having a limited ability to link into itself and comboing or at least linking well out of other moves in Ortlinde's set, and the aid of an Assistant Valkyrie, its easier to line up this situational sweetspot than you might think.

Forward Aerial - Rapid Stab
Pointing their lance forward, the Valkyrie stabs rapidly up and down in a move that varies a decent bit between Valkyries. Its a move that comes out on Frame 8, 6, or 13, and the rapid hits add up to 5 hits totaling 10%, 8 hits totaling 17%, or 4 hits totaling 14%. The final hit is either weak knockback that sets up for a potential chain of Fairs, with Ortlinde actually able to link two together potentially at low percents, or in the case of Thrud knockback that KOs from the ledge at around 165%, which is wholely unimpressive but if she goes far enough offstage it can at least get the job done. Hildr can string Fairs together reasonably well but there's too much end lag and base knockback for it to be a true combo at any percent. That said, the range and start lag are more than enough for her to pull it off, and the damage of a string of 2 or 3 Fairs is actually incredible. Nevermind that you can use the blessing to actually start true comboing them together.

So you might be wondering what the problem with Hildr's Fair is compared to the other two, considering its immense damage racking potential. That'd be the duration, because it takes quite a while for the actual attack to finish. If the stabs miss the opponent, the duration alone is enough for this move to be quite punishable, not to mention the less than great end lag, making it a unique case of a fast move being high risk, high reward. Of course, you can use your jump to line it up at risk of a directional air dodge around it, and Hildr actually does have a few moves that combo or at least link nicely into Fair. Its a pretty critical move in Hildr's relentless offense with a lot of upside, but like always with Hildr, it emphasizes that she plays a more dangerous game than the other Valkyries. Its still a respectable spacer for Thrud and combo tool for Ortlinde too, and all three Valkyries will find this a decent option against a damaged shield as the mix of high and low pokes can potentially hit a part of an opponent sticking out of a partially damaged shield. With all Valkyries the landing lag on this move is moderate, enough that you don't really want to land out of the middle of this move and would rather just let it end on its own. If you do land during it, you'll end up in about frame neutral, give or take a frame.

For the purposes of using Assistant Valkyries, this move is even better than Jab in exchange for the higher lag and duration resulting in some safety issues. Mixing the two up with each other makes both individually more potent as it can make it harder for the foe to predict how to react. Hildr's is a particular all star here once again, due to its longer duration coming in handy for locking foes down the longest. With strategic use of it and some repositioning of Thrud with moves like Side Special and Up Special, you could maybe even actually land Thrud's extremely laggy Nova by keeping the opponent boxed into its range! And with Ortlinde being a bit more consistent at comboing into herself at lower percents with this move, she can also do a lot of work towards lining up a big hit from Thrud or Hildr herself.

Back Aerial - Odin's Wrath
Gripping their spear in both hands, the Valkyrie thrusts it behind herself with great force, the entire spear glowing brightly. This is for all Valkyries a laggy kill move with knockback at a low diagonal, dealing 15%, 17%, and 18% respectively and killing from center stage at 130%, 105%, and 100%. The move comes out on Frame 18, 15, or 20 and has pretty bad end lag, with Ortlinde and Thrud being thrown a bit off balance and needing to readjust and Hildr being thrown dramatically further off balance and outright fumbling in the air a bit. If you whiff with this move as Hildr, considering your low weight, its gonna be really bad.

A fairly basic kill move on paper, but there's a lot of reasons its better than it looks. Its obviously easy enough to set up with an Assistant Valkyrie, and Thrud's Down Tilt can chain into it at specific ranges if she's got at least 2 moves worth of blessing. Hildr's is arguably the single best KO move in the entire set when it comes out on Frame 15 and has that kind of power, because if you lock the foe in enough hitstun with an assistant Valkyrie you can always go into it without having to worry about the end lag. Of course the positioning you get when an Assistant Valkyrie first spawns makes this a bit less trivial to pull off that it sounds, it'll take a bit to line the foe up between your Bair and the attacking Assistant Valkyrie. But its still incredibly potent. The thing is, you don't even necessarily need an assistant to make this move potent with decent reads. Valkyries have universally good aerial movement to line this move up, between 4 jumps and impressive air speed, and all 3 of them have good Nairs to apply additional pressure to opponents behind them in the air. This makes it easier to pull this move off close to the side blast zones, where it kills hilariously early, and on top of that you can even mitigate the move's worst quality with the blessing. Its not a complex or especially varied move between Valkyries, but its stellar at what it does, and an option that consistently remains there as a threat for the opponent no matter what Valkyrie you're controlling.

Up Aerial - Sky Sweep
The Valkyrie swings their spear above them in a glowing arc emphasized by a slight rainbow of light behind their spear. This comes out on Frame 11, 10, or 14 and deals 12% and upwards knockback that KOs at 180%, 13% and upwards knockback that KOs at 180%, or 15% and upwards knockback that KOs at 140%. This is a fairly strong aerial in terms of damage and has good coverage, with the downside being across the board its a little on the slow side, with the end lag being punishable too. Its still fast enough for Hildr and Ortlinde that it can serve as a combo ender, and Thrud's Down Tilt can combo into it because of the weird inward knockback for a pretty respectable amount of damage between the two strong hits. With that said, despite the great aerial movement the Valkyries have and the good range of this move, its punishable enough on whiff and lacking enough in speed for an aerial that you aren't going to be able to ladder with it as effectively as you'd hope.

You certainly can ladder with it if you're determined though, especially with the help of an Assistant Valkyrie. Best done with Ortlinde due to her stronger first jump than Hildr and faster Uair compared to Thrud, having another Valkyrie throwing out Nairs/Dairs/Uairs alongside you can do a lot of work in making the first couple Uairs get the opponent quite high into the sky, especially with the help of platforms. From there, you only need to read the foe right on one or two more for the kill. Up Smash can also help set this up by giving Uair extra range and durational coverage, which is certainly predictable but none-the-less scary with a singular Valkyrie and a downright menace if you've got your assistant out. You're not going to be scoring tons of your kills off ladder combos due to this move linking poorly into itself, but it IS another threat that the foe certainly has to fear when you have an Assistant Valkyrie out, expanding on the almost limitless pool of kill options it offers you.

Down Aerial - Skewer
The Valkyrie does a simple, almost unenthusiastic downwards stab that comes out on Frame 7 or 10. This has decent range due to the stabbing motion and pops the opponent up for 8% or 11%, with upwards knockback that will basically never kill for Ortlinde but kill around 280% for Thrud. At low percents it combo into Nair for both of them, quickly scaling past that point for Thrud and serving as a true combo into Uair for Ortlinde but not for Thrud. Putting the foe above a Valkyrie is still never a bad place for them to be with the Valkyries great aerial movement and Nair/Uair/Up Tilt/Up Smash giving a varied mix of anti-air options, so even beyond the combo potential having a vertical launcher against foes below you is nice just for the advantage state.

You know what's better than an advantage state though? A strong spike on a character with 4 jumps, and Hildr knows this. She grips the spear with much greater enthusiasm than her sisters and jams it downward with great force, descending her own height through the air as she does so. This comes out on an alarmingly slow frame 19, deals 15% and a spike that, while not as strong as the infamous Ganon Dair, is not as far off as you'd think and kills foes offstage very, very early. Even the onstage groundbounce can still kill at around 130%, which is pretty formidable, and an aerial foe smacked into the stage gets sent into untechable prone. This is an extremely rewarding hitbox, and one that exemplifies Hildr's high risk, high reward nature because you absolutely do not want to whiff this, the FAF is 85. There's probably not a lot of overlap in K. Rool and Valkyrie mains, but those who do clearly like the feeling of missing a vertically angled aerial and dying. Still, this is a hell of a powerful callout tool, one you can use score kills at basically any percent to show just how much of a cannon the glass cannon Hildr can be.

Oh, yeah, and by the way Hildr Dair is insane with the help of an Assistant Valkyrie. Another Valkyrie throwing out aerials or locking the foe near the ledge in a Jab combo makes it so much easier to land, and smacking the foe to the floor in untechable prone is a terrifying Nova or even Up Smash + Nova setup. This is not to mention that when Hildr herself is the Assistant, she can use Dair without fear of dying, so if you switch offstage you can throw out this ungodly dangerous hitbox to put the fear of the Allfather into the foe while the other Valkyrie performs their own aerial game. Perhaps the opponent playing super safe around Hildr Dair can let you land Ortlinde's Nair sweetspot, or a Bair...

Grab Game
Grab
The Valkyrie reaches forward with both hands in a quick grab, pulling the opponent in close to them with their hands under their arms like they're about to carry them off to Valhalla. The Valkyrie will actually float slightly off the ground with the opponent while holding them, which is just an animation and not anything that actually matters for gameplay.

If you grab an opponent while an Assistant Valkyrie is out, they'll actually pause what they're doing and wait for the controlled Valkyrie to throw the opponent before continuing their assault, taking 20 frames after the throw ends to do so to give the opponent a bit more of a chance to react. If they're in the middle of an attack while the opponent gets grabbed, they will finish out that attack, which can be a benefit with Thrud's Nova... but just keep in mind the range on this grab is pretty bad. Its not the worst, but enough that fishing for it can be dangerous. Assistant Valkyries straight up will not use grabs themselves.

Pummel
One of the Valkyrie's hands presses into the opponent, producing a rainbow light against their body that singes them for 2% in a pretty slow pummel. There's nothing really of note here, this is a very standard pummel.

Up Throw - To Valhalla!
Restraining the foe with a bond of light around their body, the Valkyrie is given the ability to freely move with the foe in their grip! This is a classic cargo throw comparable to Donkey Kong's FThrow, albeit on paper much stronger for the Valkyries because of their vastly better aerial prowess. But the thing about that is that they're not exactly super strength oriented heavyweights like Donkey Kong, so their grip on the foe is much weaker, allowing the foe to break out of the cargo throw quite fast. Thrud can hold onto the foe for the longest period(less than half the length of DK's, mind you), Hildr can hold onto them for a bit less time than Thrud, and Ortlinde can carry the foe a bit less than Hildr can.

At any point the Valkyrie can throw the foe for 4% and tiny knockback in one of the four cardinal directions of their choice, with both parties left in frame neutral due to the end lag. Ortlinde's actually is a little better, dealing 6% and slightly higher knockback that does scale a bit too, as well as enough frame advantage to lead into a Jab at low percents because of how fast it is! This throw might not seem like much, but at high percents when escape difficulty becomes high enough, you could theoretically move the foe super close to a blast zone with it and recover unlike Donkey Kong, making this serve as a weird KO throw, but a KO throw none-the-less. Probably for the best you only go for this on Thrud or Ortlinde though, Hildr has some trouble with it until percents you really should be aiming to KO earlier than.

Carrying the foe off stage has all sorts of applications even before KO percents, but the primary thing is just to set up all those nasty offstage scenarios the aerials thrive off. Early Bair kills, Ortlinde's Nair, Hildr's Dair, and just comboing a foe out of grab a couple more hits to send them off the blast zone is a pretty formidable way to send the foe to their worthy warrior's afterlife in Valhalla. Or if they're unworthy like Tristan Taylor, hell.

Obviously, you won't always get the chance to relocate a foe off stage with this much weaker cargo throw, but it also has some pretty impressive utility while you have out an Assistant Valkyrie. As the Valkyrie will pause during your throw, you can just throw them into the ideal range to sandwich the foe between your next attack and your assistant's next attack in the most inconvenient way possible. Or, theoretically, you can throw the foe into a Nova, which means the opponent REALLY cannot afford to get grabbed if an Assistant Valkyrie is in the midst of preparing a Nova. Its a pretty small window of opportunity so its not quite as powerful as it sounds, but there's plenty of other crazy setups you can put the foe right in the middle of out of this move.

Forward Throw - Skewer Combo
The Valkyrie slams the opponent into the ground in front of them before performing four rapid stabs on the foe, skewering them at four points in their arc through the air before they land, dealing a total of 15%, 20%, or 12% across 5 hits. This leaves the foe in front of the Valkyrie at a distance just outside their melee reach and in a variable position of disadvantage depending on the Valkyrie you're using. Thrud gets the most frame advantage at 8 frames, which isn't a lot and she's not going to be able to immediately follow up with Jab, but enough the foe is forced to react quickly, and perhaps incorrectly, to Thrud's next move, such as shielding right into Jab's ability to pressure it or panic attacking an approaching Thrud only for Down Smash or Forward Tilt to intercept them. Its not a combo throw, but the advantage state is certainly appreciated, and puts the foe at the worst position in relation to an Assistant Valkyrie of any variants either.

Ortlinde only has 4 frames of advantage, and while she can make up for this with faster attacks compared to Thrud, the options she can use to take advantage of this small frame advantage are inferior to Thrud's due to both her lack of shield/dodge pressure and generally worse numbers. But she's got her weird mixups and specific hitboxes she can fish for out of this, and if you can read an opponent well you're not just getting a formidable damage number but also a heavy hit out of it as well! Hildr straight up leaves the opponent in frame neutral, with no advantage whatsoever gained out of this move as she's too busy trying to look cool on her last stab, leaving her with great enough end lag the foe recovers at the same time as her. But clearly, while she think about where she'd be going after landing this move, she put her all into it when it deals 20%, a very unusual amount for a throw, so the complete lack of an advantage state is justified. Because hey, if the opponent reacts properly to while the other two Valkyries got frame advantage, this ended up giving you the net highest quantity of damage out of this throw, giving Hildr a pretty impressive floor on what a grab with her is capable of.

Down Throw - Burning Light
Taking out an energy spear made of light, the Valkyrie thrusts it through the opponent's midsection, dealing them 5% and releasing the opponent in frame neutral, the spear still jutting out of them. This damage and frame neutral result is universal for every Valkyrie, but the spear will stick around embedded in the foe for 7 seconds, after which, it will detonate! The specifics of this detonation vary a bit between your Valkyries. For Hildr, it explodes for 8% with moderate diagonal knockback that can be tricky to combo off unless you're specifically in position for it, but does add the threat of a time bomb interrupting foe's dodges, chipping and stunning their shield, or just compounding on existing knockback to make them easier to edgeguard or tipping them off the blast zone. Thrud's, meanwhile, only deals 6% but light upwards knockback, perfect as a combo extension tool or starter if its hits the foe, but having less impact if it hits the foe while they've been spaced away from you. Due to Thrud's higher knockback and spacing potential, she appreciates Hildr's light spear as a means to extend it, and Hildr appreciates Thrud giving her some extra combo potential.

Ortlinde's light spear is especially weird, weirder than most of her techniques in this set have been so far. It starts out dealing 7% and knockback on a high diagonal that KOs at 220%, but actually will decrease in power over time if the foe has not taken any additional hits. If the opponent goes without taking damage for 3 seconds, its power will decrease by 2% per second until it fizzles out entirely, so you need to keep up pressure on the opponent for Ortlinde's light spear to work at all. However, additional hits on the opponent will increase the power of the light spear, causing it to glow and flare up to indicate an increase in power. A hit of 10% or less will only increase its power by 1%, a singular hit of a multi-hit move will increase it by 0.5%, and a hit of 11% or greater will increase it by 3%. This makes it useful for both Hildr and Thrud, with Hildr's longer combos and Thrud's high damage attacks being able to increase its power more easily than Ortlinde can, up to a maximum power of 20% where it actually KOs at 80%! Especially if its capping off the knockback of another attack, that's a ferociously powerful time bomb, certainly not to be underestimated, and you can rapidly build up its power potentially during an Assistant Valkyrie based combo!

With all that said, having an extra hit for the foe to worry about, even if its at a predictable interval for them, can be really helpful if you're smart about taking advantage of that interval. Throw out an Assistant Valkyrie when the spear is about to detonate to give them another hitbox to worry about. Use a later Up Throw to drag the foe into a dangerous offstage game with you while the spear is about read to explode. Throw out big powerful moves like Thrud Forward Smash that are already good against defensive options, or like Up Smash which give additional payoffs on top of just giving the foe 2 scary hitboxes to worry about. Give the opponent something else to worry about when you're fishing for Bairs or Ortlinde Nair sweetspots to make it that much easier to mess with a foe in aerial combat against your excellent air movement. You're pretty much clear to abuse this however you want if you can hold onto an advantage state at the time the bomb becomes an immediate threat... but each Valkyrie has their own weaknesses in getting to said advantage state, so keep in mind its not instantly going to pay itself off. Especially Ortlinde's, while its by far the most powerful Time Bomb if you're using it you better be confident you can keep the foe on the back foot the next few seconds.

Back Throw - Dismiss
The Valkyrie spins the foe around behind them, releasing them while also hitting them with their lance a moment later. This deals 9%, 7%, or 11%, and good horizontal knockback behind the Valkyrie that gets the foe out of your face, but scales poorly enough it won't KO until disappointingly high and largely irrelevant percents, even at the ledge. Hildr's throw is just generally worse here at getting space with decreased knockback, while Thrud's has a little extra punch to it that'll start killing at the ledge around 170%, so its an option if you don't want to use Up Throw for whatever reason. If there's one nice thing that can be said about the weaker Hildr variant of the throw, it set up foes for Side Special's sweetspot range at medium percents, whereas Ortlinde's only does early and Thrud's will basically stop doing after 0%.

To put it bluntly, this is your spacing throw, because none of the other Valkyrie throws actually get the foe out of your face. You pretty much just go right back to fighting the foe at close range, and sometimes, you'd rather just have a reset. Whether that be to change the Valkyrie you're playing to a more ideal one for the situation, set up Side Special/Up Smash, or prepare a combination attack with an Assistant Valkyrie, having Back Throw to give you room to do that is pretty important utility you'd rather have, no matter how basic the move is.

Final Phantasm - Girls Advent
For their Final Smash, the Valkyrie the player is controlling rises up into the air 3 Ganondorf heights, as a dozen more Valkyries spawn elsewhere on the stage, light spears in hand and centered around the player Valkyrie. The spears are then all cast down in a fashion a bit similar to PK Starstorm, each spear about as large as the Valkyrie holding it and dealing 18% and high diagonal knockback, with the positioning of the Valkyries set up so that usually you'll combo 2-3 light spears into each other for a pretty massive chunk of stage-wide damage. Of course, the foe could always weave between the spears, so be mindful of spacing when throwing this move out. Each Valkyrie has a slightly different formation of additional Valkyries they spawn in terms of shape, Ortlinde spawning an X shape, Hildr spawning an Oval, and Thrud spawning an upside down wide triangle of Valkyries. The lower ones always throw their spears first, followed by the top ones, and they throw 2 at a time. The sky of the stage in question will be bathed in light while this final smash happens, with the presense of the full army of Valkyries casting an almost oppressive radiance down upon the stage.
 
Last edited:

Torgo the Bear

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
1,176
Location
Grinding for Maushold Family of Three
NNID
u2outofcontrol
Switch FC
SW-1209-7008-3905
Aloy
H happychallahdays

1648425466287.png

Well, this one was definitely ambitious! I can't say I'm really attached to the character, but it was still interesting enough. I cannot say this set was bad, but it did have a fair number of things that I wasn't really too happy with, to be honest.

First things first, while the Second Sight ability is cool, it feels kind of abusable. Notably, I didn't see any sign of the ability having a cooldown, so you could in theory just throw this out at just about any time to immediately get the benefits of those headshots and smaller hitboxes on traps, both of which can be rather useful. The other functions are neat, but not very necessary... I don't think this is a bad idea, but I really think it needs some kind of cooldown.

And then there's... three more abilities!? I can definitely appreciate the goal of really portraying the source material, but aside from Shieldwing, none of it really means anything until you read further. When you're starting out, it seems like a lot. I'm also gonna have to say that it's a little weird when there's a bunch of terms and mechanics that aren't explained until the end of the set.

Anyways, moving into the actual moveset itself, there's a lot going on here...but each individual move is pretty easily digestible. Every so often, I got a bit confused about what part of the set I was even in, but it wasn't really that bad. But yeah, honestly once it actually gets going, this set feels better. Each Skill Set was pretty good, although Machine Master felt a little off. It felt balanced enough and all, it just felt like it didn't really match the rest of the set.

Well, overall, even though there was a lot that I wasn't really into, I can't say this set was bad. It was pretty cool for a first set (hell of a lot better than what I started with around here) and I'm interested to see what else you could bring to the table in the future!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
JAMCON 25-1's Submission Period is Closed!

Wow, this was an insane Jamcon. Big thanks to everyone who contributed and helped to smash Jamcon submission records! You all did a fantastic job. I hope you're as excited as I am for these powerhouses...
  1. Flying in right from the get-go and representing Team GolisoPower and Arctic Tern is none other than Meltryllis, the Alter Ego of Pleasure and sadistic spiritual successor to Passionlip. She may lack the huge assets of her masochistic twin, but she makes up in that department in sheer wordcount! Special shout-out for being our very first Jamcon joint set, as well as breaking the record for longest Jamcon set ever submitted.
  2. Up next from Team bubbyboytoo is Taranza, the sinister spider who weaves threads of projectiles and manipulates you and your minions. Summoners had better hope they're paired up with an alternate opponent!
  3. Scaring away the bugs on Team Usershadow7989 is Alolan Marowak, spreading spirits and scorching with its shadowy bone from ages past. With a bone that Marowak can manipulate remotely, you'd think that this Pokemon belonged to Jodie!
  4. If our first 3 contestants weren't bizarre enough for you, you'll get a real kick out of Venom Strange of Team n88. Ever wondered where Dr. Strange went after MYM9? Read this set and find out!
  5. Unlikely representative and actual male character for Team Katapultar, Light Yagami marks Death Note's return to Make Your Move since the good old days of MYM11. No Ryuk though; he's stuck in MYM Survivor limbo somewhere on our The Bunker site, trying to be a Heavyweight Male Antagonist who wants to take over the world.
  6. Apparently Gareth decided to become a Caster and join with Lyn, because representing Team FrozenRoy and Slavic in this contest's first Jamcon is Nino! Joined by Jaffar for a combination of spells and swordplay, this set's sure to blow you away!
  7. Thought Team WeirdChillFever ran out of daises to recruit? Too bad, because they're bringing an incarnation of Daisy from the Fire Emblem series! Don't let your guard down around her, or she'll steal your votes!
  8. We're not done with two-faced criminals from the past. Representing Team Rychu is Two-Face, joining us with a head-start from his trusty coin. Turning tails and running from this man would be an insult to his super-powered competitors!
  9. What's this? Team FrozenRoy has submitted another competitor, this time in Belossom! We're making history with this Jamcon, folks. While its alternate and original evolution Vileplume may not have a set yet, Belossom is sure to bring a Sunny Day and a short, sunny reading experience.
  10. Because we got 2 Fire Emblem sets (and 2 Pokemon and Marvel + DC), we must also get 2 Fate sets. This is Team ForwardArrow brings the Valkyrie riding into Smash! Or rather, a trio of them. Their Master might not be around for the time being, but I'm sure someone will make a set for them at some point down the road. In the meantime, enjoy them!
  11. Our final entry brings a welcome blast from the past: Team ProfPeanut. Representing this academic is Ekko- or rather, Firelight Ekko ε, The Boy Who Once Had a Set in MYM18. This seems to be an Alternate version of Ekko from Arcane, but he's sure to make your time worthwhile. Miss out, and you won't get a second chance to nominate!

Which of these contestants will take home the Alternate Trophy? Read, comment and nominate one to decide and find out!


An update regarding nominating for joint set authors. If one author of a joint set votes and the other doesn't, their set will receive the usual 0.5 point voter bonus. But if both authors vote, their set will receive an extra 1 point regardless of which sets they nominated, bringing their total voter bonus to 1.5. This is designed to even things out if both authors decide to vote: if they both nominated the same set and that set's author nominated the joint set, both sets would have 2.5 points. This is experimental, and I'm open to changing now the votes work if anyone objects or things look dicey with people's nominations.

Due to the sheer number of entries and collective wordcounts (three 20k+ sets!) we got this time around, reading period will be 3 weeks instead of the usual 2. We can even go farther, but ideally we want the next Jamcon to start exactly a month after this one.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
I’ll be honest here: I was massively hype for this set when you posted it. It’s a return to my favourite type of n88 set, Marvel characters with all-out crazy ideas behind them, and I was a huge fan of Kang the Conquerer back in MYM12. Very, very impressed you got out something this big for Jamcon, and so soon into your modern return.

With a second modern set on you, I’m starting to associate you with unique moves right from Strange’s first move. Ward appears to be an underwhelming move at first glance (ironic when the original Dr. Strange set was apparently underpowered), but being a pseudo-counter that subtracts lag from the move relative to the foe’s own is a unique touch! The portal move is simple and refreshing, just like the set’s writing, and also unique in the sense that it’s designed to refresh Strange’s powerful midair jump instead of being a teleport recovery. I also like how portals only disappear when they’re exited from and not entered, which can potentially mess up his recovery!

And Down Special is essentially a modern and more balanced Dark Bowser cage, minus the swinging physics. Also funny how the move doesn’t work against huge opponents like Shin Godzilla. Jab and Neutral Air are almost like extra Specials, in a fun way. The former is very cool as a trap that can be detonated to give Strange access to his finisher early, sort of reminds me of Mysterio’s Jab even if they are fundamentally different.

The set doesn’t slow down from there! Cap has a good set of moves, a particularly fun Forward Smash, and I love how they it has mix-up potential with his Forward Tilt. Ant Man’s input placements work well with his stature, the tripping with his prone abuse effect. Back Air’s reverse knockback reminds me of old MYM around the 15-16 era, a good fun move and reminder to use it in a future set. Strange Down Throw also reminds me of old MYM, in a move that directly supplements and works with a Special-based construct. And I love Strange Dash Attack’s take on the old “teleporting dash attack” trope and using it for tech chase mix-ups by knocking foes into prone. And Summon Down Air is just another fun move and crazy take on the Steve D-air, a bit like how Taranza used the move too. Strage Down Air is just as fantastic, with the awesome teleport tipper that lets you switch places with your opponent to great synergy with the diagonal downwards knockback.

And heh, now that I’m reading them having a summon dedicated to taunting is funny. His Up Air is particularly funny.

A few minor things. You might want to change Summon Dash Attack’s starting lag to something like Warlock Punch instead of 3 seconds. I also wonder if Strange is a bit too good at blocking off projectiles when he can have multiple summons out, especially Venom Captain America - one little trick I like to do in minion sets is to allow enemy projectiles to pass through the minions so they don’t invalidate the opponent’s zoning game. Strange does have to go through cooldown if he loses the summons, but they’re all on extra inputs and he has a competent enough melee game on its own. In Strange’s defense though, some projectiles would fly over Ant Man and Rocket, and doesn’t have any really blatant or conventional ways to use the summons’ projectile sponging to camp. I do wonder if the more offensive summons like Rocket, Spinneret and Wolverine would be too powerful of a presence in large numbers, as Strange could set them up while a foe is recovering or the like, even though their summon attacks are all laggy and they have time limits and HP.

But overall? Venom Strange is an excellent set, and not just by Jamcon standards. What mainly appeals to me is the sheer abundance of great individuals moves, as you’ve probably surmised from my comment. It takes advantage of the characters’ high potential, and is all the more impressive when the set has nearly twice the inputs of a regular set. It’s exactly the kind of craziness I was hoping for on you return.

It never gets too messy either - a bit surprised you thought this set would be an ungodly mess, but I understand how one might lack confidence in their work. You’ve already proven that you’re good at keeping balance in-check, so all the crazy ideas can stand in the face of modern MYM. Amazing work here - you can definitely compete with the big boys.

Also, do we have to do movesets for Venom versions of MYM/non-Marvel characters for that Up Taunt? That open-endedness makes the taunt very fun to imagine.

Belossom is a little cutie I like as a Pokemon, and very glad to see apparent inspiration from Venusaur being brought up in the memeset hell thread. Maybe someone will make a set inspired by the Count? I can definitely tell you were going for something quick with the brisk writing. I’m guessing this set was made in just a few hours?

There’s not too much to say about Belossom. Specials are a basic enough take on Sunny Day + Solarbeam, with Leech Seed to punish foes for staying close to Belossom. I could certainly see Sunny Day serving as a very strong base in a Pokeset with more time to it - I’ve even idea an idea myself. I do like Forward Smash’s spore cycling as a way to balance out effects that would be powerful if the move could be spammed, like with stun spore’s combo potential! I do think it’s weird that Belossom can float, even if it’s justified by Peach and Daisy comparisons - that feels more like something you’d see on a Psychic, Ghost or Flying-type or a Pokemon with Levitate.

I wouldn’t say this set is as strong as Slaking from last contest. I feel that set had a much stronger base (Truant) to work with, and the status effects are more focused upon than the Specials and Sunny Day so the set doesn’t have a lot to work with, but your standardfare melee and reactions-based approach starting from Down Tilt help to perk up this flower. And honestly she’s still quite good for something you whipped up so quickly, quicker than Slaking! A very viable tactic for beating me out in set count.

For posterity’s sake, I agree with everyone that this set has an amazing intro, presentation-wise. Having two separate intros that link at the end is pure narrative genius. Have never seen anything like it in the history of Make Your Move, and we’ve been around for a long time! The set has some great characterisation in the writing too - it adds more element to Two-Face’s character(s) beyond his intro. This Jamcon seems to have its fair share of sets that are making history in their own ways.

A stance-change move that punishes if you don’t use it for a while is a fun concept, switching between fast and weak or slow and strong. Down Special seems a tad redundant, but is perfectly fine for a Jamcon and is neat in the sense of letting you switch stances freely in exchange for taking self-damage paranoia sooner. The rest of the set is basic enough. Two moves that stand out to me: Side Special and Harvey Down Smash are both very effective against shields, something that with added self-awareness could bolster his melee game! Maybe condition the foe into taking non-shielding actions against those moves that Two-Face could punish?

Your Jamcon sets are nice and brisk (normally among the shortest wordcount!), and do make me hype for what sets you could unleash if given more development time, as shown with Law and Whitebeard. If you’re not 100% happy with your jamcon entries, maybe you’d even be up for a joint set next Jamcon? I’d definitely volunteer for that!
 
Last edited:

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
305
Venom Strange by n88 n88 ***

We got a whole slew of highly ambitious sets this jamcon, and n88's second set this contest is no exception. Marking a huge leap in creativity from Empty Vessel, Venom Strange does an excellent job of utilizing multiple summons and tying them into his inputs, divvying up a secondary set of inputs among them and giving them bite-sized, simple to understand behaviors and purposes that mesh together with each other and Strange's own abilities perfectly. The last summon in particular is a dazzling example of an addition that escalates the set into the upper echelons of- okay, he's distracted by his food order arriving, we're good. I did very much love the last summon, mind, but yeah.

The set does a fantastic job with them all, giving simple and easy to understand comparison points and highlighting how having them around helps out. Captain America in particular adds a ton of synergy to the other summons in how they affect his behavior and his ability to protect them. Beyond him, there's not a ton of interaction between any given duo, but I feel it was a necessary sacrifice both to keep the set from getting overcomplicated and to not miss the jamcon deadline. They're balanced by a few quirks, such as needing to perform generally laggy inputs to summon them and the penalty of letting them get KOed, as well as predictable AI behavior and a hard-set time limit once present that forces Strange to continue fighting himself instead of tossing out a bunch of minions and letting the fight go on without him.

Venom Strange himself is more than competent, too- each move has enough mechanical working bits to have some meat, and the animations take advantage of the material quite nicely to make each distinct and memorably uncanny. The moves mesh together to make him a very defensive fighter who reads the opponent's intentions and uses range and powerful blows to keep control of the match in tandem with his slower summons.

There's still a few mechanical hiccups here, but very little for such a large set made in such a short time, Kat covering basically all the advice I could give in his comment. The two biggest ones I'd recommend in the same vein are dropping Summon Dash Attack from a full 3 seconds of telegraphing to 1 second despite the powerful effect, and that Summons aside from Captain America should allow projectiles to pass through.

So that's the second of the big sets this Jamcon done, and both are excellent reads. I'm already going to have to do some thinking on what set I should vote, and the rest look pretty impressive in their own rights. An excellent set overall, n88, and yet another one for the overall high water mark this contest has had in set quality!


Light Yagami by Katapultar Katapultar ***

A set for a character I never expected to see in MYM again, given the inherent difficulty. The Death Note mechanic implements the story's titular mcguffin and Light's primary murder weapon wonderfully, and defines the playstyle to fit the character in a single input by initiating a proverbial game of 4d chess with the opponent by turning potentially any of his attacks into a "deathblow" that can KO them, or setting up a predetermined chain of attacks to build to an incredibly lethal hit; that's a hell of neat trick! The characterization and design goals extend into the use of crooks and bystanders as weapons via defining their deaths in a way that has collateral damage, providing some neat interactions that build on the mind game focus and cementing him as a nasty piece of work without going over the top.

The set then has a keen balance of fundamental melee and projectiles that benefit from detailing how each move might build on the core mechanic or potentially lead into another (with a lack of strong combo strings by design to keep him from simply jotting down a bread and butter trick into the Death Note for easy kills) and seemingly innocuous traps and interactions that flavor-wise are just the right amount of crazy to fit the feel of the character without breaking from what he could technically do.

This ties back into the mechanic- not only do you tip your hand when using a move marked to be a deathblow, whether it's part of a chain or meant to be the killing finish, but affected inputs often gain an additional quality like Up Aerial becoming a trap that is deadly to those who enter the air space above where you used it or Forward Tilt gaining an extra hitbox that's one of Light's few moves that can give him a sizable frame advantage to lead into something more dangerous and thus makes opponents leery of getting in the secondary hitbox's much greater range.

I did manage to find some nitpicks despite that: the Dash Attack forcing you to drop the Death Note feels a bit rough, but does mean his otherwise pretty solid melee tool has a drawback if spammed recklessly and can be used to properly set up other things in the set. Less seriously, the Smashes section is erroneously labeled 'Specials' (isn't that just the truth for some MYM sets) and the second Jab bulletpoint ends on a sentence fragment: "This has similar applications to Light’s N-air where he can drag foes into a corpse to trigger its deathblow, or perhaps into a delayed falling corpse or " That's... actually all I could find to pick at.

The set manages to keep a constant level of quality throughout, ending with the grab game managing to fit the fundamentals- and trap-based mind games to a "T" and acting as a high note. This is a really, really good set, and was a joy to read (I'm finding that to be a running theme this contest). Nice!
 
Last edited:

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,260
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513

One of the most iconic of all enemies in the Mario series is the Hammer Bro, first appearing waaaaay back in Super Mario Bros. 1, and in particular haunting what is probably the toughest levels in the game: 8-3, a level of Mario tackling and rushing down Bowser's army and home fortresses while uncountable Hammer Bros attempt to bring him down. They would also retain strong importance in Super Mario Bros. 3, where Hammer Bros roam the map: Contact with them while moving initiates a short "mini-boss" battle with a Hammer Bro or one of their newly introduced variants, the Boomerang Bro, Fire Bro, and Sledge Bro! Victory in these tough battles would grant Mario valuable items, and in World 2 is one of the only ways to obtain one of the fabled Warp Whistles in the game. In short, the Hammer Bro in early games is positioned as a kind of "Elite Minion", below the major bosses such as Bowser or the Koopalings but clearly standing over lower grunts such as the Koopa Troopa, Goomba or so on.

Over the many years Hammer Bros would receive a multitude of new variants, from the obvious Ice Bro to the surprising Yo Bro and even the enigmatic Business Bro, and named characters in games such as Hamma Jamma (along with his broters Bamma the Boomerang Bro and Flare the Fire Bro) from The Thousand Year Door. A multitude of new foes who naturally would occur over the 35+ years Mario has been around has pushed the Hammer Bro outside of being Bowser's most elite minion, but nonetheless he retains a higher placement in the Mario Enemy Hierarchy: Seeing a multitude of Hammer Bros is usually a sign you've entered at least the mid game of your standard Mario platformer.

Perfect for Mar10, right? (Please ignore this set coming out later. Apr10l?)


Statistics Bro.


Hammer Bro keeps the same size as his Assist Trophy version, making him rather short and stout compared to many characters in the game. Combined with a solid weight value of 101 (Hero), Hammer Bro can be surprisingly difficult to get rid of! More managable is his speed, which is a rather mediocre 1.595 (Corrin/Ivysaur) for his Dash and 0.95 for his Walk (between Byleth and Bayonetta): His walk actually looks like a very small hop, referring to how Hammer Bro moves in games such as Super Mario Odyssey. His traction seems pretty good, at least!

Aerially is where Hammer Bro gets more interesting, having a very high first jump (42.5, putting him 5th below Luigi and above Diddy Kong) and a positively Yoshi-esque 50.56 Jump (3rd highest and only 1 point behind Yoshi). In fact, Hammer Bro's jump is very similar to Yoshi's in being a Delayed Jump that has high knockback-based armor on it: Hammer Bro, seeing that he's wearing shell armor, has slightly more armor in exchange for the lower height. As a comparison, Yoshi's double jump armor is not broken until 70% vs. Samus' max charge shot, Hammer Bro's is instead broken at 77%. Hammer Bro also has much more mediocre air speed at 1.109 equal to Corrin, and some interestingly unique fall speed. Hammer Bro is quite a slow faller by default, emulating the somewhat floaty movement of the Hammer Bro in the original games. His default fall speed is thus 1.32, only a bit faster than Yoshi. However, to simulate some later games faster falling + the more "weighty" feel he has, Hammer Bro has a special 75% Fast Fall Increase in the same way Link has a faster fall (though note Link's is 90%). This gives Hammer Bro an even stronger ability to control his vertical height which is important to his projectile game!

Hammer Bro cannot wall jump, wall cling, float, crawl or glide.


Special Bro.

Up Special: Hammer Bro.

Just like Yoshi's second jump, Hammer Bro takes a page from Yoshi with his Up Special in that it is not primarily meant for recovery but instead as a projectile! This attack has variants depending on if Hammer Bro tilts or smashes the control stick, so bear that in mind, although the basic idea is the same.


Tilting the control stick has the Hammer Bro take out a wooden hammer, before tossing it upwards and outwards in classic Hammer Bro fashion! The arc is very similar to Belmont's axe, with a few important differences. The hammer, being wooden, has less "weight" to it than the Belmont axe, which is to say that it accelerates to its height faster and then falls slower. This gives it a bit of a different feel than the Belmont axe, having better lingering ability overall but being even more reactable at range. Hammer Bro does have an ability to angle this attack however, unlike Yoshi, the range to angle it is much more limited and it always retains the Belmont "arc" style throw: Up and Back throws it more vertically and less horizontally, reducing the range it travels in exchange for allowing it to linger even longer, while the inverse is true for angling it up and forwards. Hammer Bro DOES get some distance from throwing it in the same way as Yoshi (and decaying with each use like Yoshi), but it isn't very far, so keep in mind you're vulnerable in a Yoshi-esque manner. Just like Yoshi's Egg Toss, this does not put the Hammer Bro in helpless.

The starting lag is also much lower than Belmont's axe and instead closer to Yoshi's Egg Throw (Frame 16 to start / 55 FAF), although the damage is also much lower at a mere 10% and the knockback won't be killing until 250% or so with strict vertical knockback. This nonetheless fits excellently into Hammer Bro's gameplan as an edgeguard-happy, classic camper who can bring surprising power in the midrange: All of his Special projectiles serve to cover a specific range, and Up Special is an anti-full hop option that also has incredible lingering potential and arc for people recovering. Note that this offers no coverage right in front of Hammer Bro, so an opponent on the ground can very clearly run to you and just get an attack off.


When Smashed, Hammer Bro instead produces a pure black metal hammer as seen in most of his appearances, hefting it forward with 3 more frames of starting lag compared to the wooden hammer and 2 extra ending lag frames (for a total FAF of 60). The metal hammer has the reverse speed of the Hammer Bros' wooden hammer, being slower than the Belmont axe to rise due to its higher height but falling much faster, so mixing up which hammer you're throwing out is key! The metal hammer is stronger, dealing 15% damage like a Belmont axe while killing at 150%, but being slower at the start of the projectile's life rather than the end makes it inherently more reactable. This is a big reason that mixing them up is so key, as reacting to the wrong hammer will usually put you in prime position to be hit by the other one.

Another thing that's notable about Hammer Bro's Up Special is that, being a not-quite-recovery move, it WON'T interrupt Hammer Bro's aerial momentum! This means Hammer Bro can perform plenty of retreating, advancing and/or rising Hammers with strong momentum, especially out of his double jump! Anyone who has played Belmonts knows the value of jump -> axe and varying when you throw it to catch out people being clever with their movement or air dodges and Hammer Bro has that in spades and more!


Side Special: Boomerang Bro.


In the official game Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch, Piranha Plant takes aspects from other Piranha Plant variants throughout history for its moveset, such as Prickly Piranha Plant for Forward Smash or Putrid Piranha for Side Special. In fact, all of Plant's Specials are effective references to other Plant enemies in Mario!

Hammer Bro takes a very similar idea in mind, his shell turning blue like a modern Boomerang Bro as he takes out, pretend to be shocked here, a boomerang! The temporary-Boomerang Bro then proceeds to throw it forward, where it travels the same distance as Link's boomerang (with the Bro able to tilt/smash it to the same effect) when it is thrown straight forward. The Bro can't angle it, largely because doing so would interfere with Up Special's angling, but that's fine since he has other projectiles to deal with that. The damage of the boomerang is 8% with light knockback if tilted and 11% with still light but slightly stronger knockback if smashed. The starting lag on this throw is a little less than Link's at 26 frames (the Link Trio's is Frame 27), with similar ending lag that does allow the Bro a follow-up when he hits with it properly.

There are further differences between these boomerangs. First off, they do not stop when hitting an opponent like the Link Trio's and instead pierce through opponents! This mostly means you can hit multiple enemies, but it does also affect the return time when hitting a shielding opponent. Remember that shielding a hit of a single hitbox means you cannot be hit by it and so shielding the boomerang once means not being hit by the return trip!


The other major change is that rather than returning directly to the Bro, they will curve in a manner essentially just like the GIF above to return to him! By default it will go upwards if the Bro is level with the horizontal level of the boomerang, in addition to going upwards if the Bro is above the boomerang. But if the Bro is BELOW the boomerang it will curve downwards! It curves once at the end of its initial fly out, then very lightly tries to follow the Bro if it is not on a path to return to it, flying away and past the Bro in the same way as Link's boomerang if it is unable to do so. This curve is enough to cover bottom-most platforms on most stages on the way back which is handy for people who use platforms to avoid your Neutral Special. If they simply try to jump in place to let the boomerang go by, a properly timed jump to follow + Up Special puts serious pressure on them!

In the context of the Bro's projectile game, the main purpose is to give a direct projectile to threaten grounded opponents with (as Up Special is too laggy and Neutral Special too easy to avoid grounded) so that they can't simply wait for the Bro to throw a projectile and run in, while the return trip punishes people who try to simply take more stalling avoidances like standing on a platform or empty jumps. It demands some kind of committment, be it a shield or going in on the Bro, which the Bro can then hopefully use to his advantage with prediction or better stage control. One additional tool the Bro has is that, much like the Boomerang Bro in games, he can throw two boomerangs at once!

Even moreso than merely having two out at once, the Bro can throw a second one right after the first at only half the starting lag (13 frames), with him being allowed to reverse the direction he throws it between the two. The fact he has to throw the second in a small frame window (1-12 frames after throwing the first boomerang) means that it is a bit committal, but it is totally possible in some situations to combo Boomerang 1 -> Boomerang 2, not to mention the potential value in the number of lingering hitboxes or the fact these can catch out a roll or air dodge of the first boomerang with incredible ease! This doesn't add extra ending lag to the boomerang toss, but you will lose out on combos if you toss out a second boomerang and the first hits without the foe being in Boomerang 1 -> Boomerang 2 combo range, not to mention a second Boomerang can often not be the IDEAL follow-up, so that's the trade-off instead.

Attempting to throw a third boomerang while having two boomerangs out, be it one-after-another or just overall, gets the same "tries to throw and nothing happens" response as if Link does it. This tends to be more common for the Bro somewhat than Link due to the curve of the return making it easier to not catch the boomerang, so be aware of that if you spam it.


Neutral Special: Fire Bro.


Rounding out the trio of projectile specials is the Neutral Special, which has the Bro turn the same color as the modern, red-colored Fire Bro as flame gathers in its mouth. Tapping the button has a single fireball pop out with lag slightly faster than Mario, but this attack can be held for up to the same duration as Ridley's Neutral Special charge to shoot out multiple fireballs! There is some variation between the two, but it should be noted the move's ending lag is about equal to a Mario fireball no matter which one the Bro uses.


In addition, both variants of the move have the same animation when hitting the ground, which is an exaggerated bounce even higher than Ridley's Neutral Special! It's high enough that it can totally miss smaller opponents and a lot of opponents can flatout crouch under them at the right distance, even big boys like Ganondorf. At the same time the fireballs are reasonably large and they bounce back to the ground consistantly with 1.1x the range of Ridley's Neutral Special, so they can be a pain to deal with on the ground as well. The higher this move is used in the air, the higher the initial bounce from the ground will be with less horizontal distance with each bounce normalizing back to its standard bounce. A drop of 3+ Ganondorfs causes the first fireball to essentially bounce in place.

Playing into this unique up-and-down movement is the two ways the attack can be fired. The single hit fireball is stronger and actually a solid 9.5% damage that can KO off the top at 180%, making it a surprisingly potent projectile! At low percents this leads into a Bro aerial if you use it right after, but it can also serve as a late kill option for a character that lacks a multitude of strong kill options. This is especially true when combined with the Bro's other projectiles: both the fireball and Bro's hammers deal upwards knockback that can allow the Bro to ladder opponents to death, with the order depending on which hammer is used (wooden hammer -> fireball or fireball -> metal hammer), while the boomerang can lock opponents into place. The downside is a single fireball doesn't offer as much stage control or damage as the more continuous stream, although it is MUCH less committal to throw out.

The stream works in a very similar way as Ridley's fireball stream, creating a constant stream of 2-6 fireballs that increase with size and potency as the Bro charges, maxing out at 0.85x the size of Ridley's fireballs. Each of these fireballs does 3%-4.5% damage based on charge with a lot of decimals and fractions in the mid-charges, but that means the damage is a meager 6% damage at minimum charge and a pretty monstrous 27% should every single fireball connect. Each fireball merely lightly pushes enemies away: Anyone who has played Ridley will let you know this can be a dummy strong edgeguard option, but it doesn't do a lot on stage. Of course combined with having a two-way variant of a Belmont axe this gives the Bro a crazy ledge game that will lead to more kills than flatout KO moves!

The other really important thing is that 6 fireballs offers a lot of stage control! One of the ideal uses of this is to simply pin down an opponent so they have to wait for the fire to pass, giving the Bro ample time to toss out other projectiles or take advantage of hesitation. There's also the fact that it is simply a lot of damage and if the opponent is playing recklessly or making bad decisions dodging your other projectiles (usually overly rolling / air dodging) this can catch opponents out something FIERCE. Another common way to do land this is if opponents constantly react to your projectiles with a shorthop (which gos over a boomerang but remains too low for a hammer to catch until late) as the fireball will assuredly hit them, although landing more than the single fireball or a low charge requires a hard read.

In general, a staple tool of the Bros' neutral is to fire 1 or more fireballs out and then fire off a boomerang. Opponents who stop to let the fireball pass them will need to shield the boomerang or otherwise take a defensive option to avoid the hit. An Up Special hammer can be thrown in this time fairly safely if the Bro desires to keep at a range, or he can go in for an attack such as a grab (great anti-shield tech!), a range-y Forward Smash, or one of his faster options like an Up Tilt. He could also RAR out a Back Aerial as a compromise between going in and backing off. Finally, the Bro can absolutely mix in a Down Special after any of those projectile options, which as you will seen soon is pretty relevant. The other main projectile tool that the Bro will use in neutral is his Side Special, which makes a rather dastardly psuedo-50/50 with this Neutral Special: Jumping off the Side Special to go in gets countered by fireball, staying in place a moment to let the fireball pass gets hit by the boomerang. This is only a psuedo-50/50 because you can always shield the hit to avoid both, but this allows the Bro to keep the initiative and continue his projectile game!

And thus is the essence of the Bro's projectile game: Three powerful projectiles, all with different areas of control (boomerang = ground and anti-platform, fireball = ground and anti-short hop, hammer = anti-air and high platforms), that need to be woven together to make it incredibly difficult for opponents to approach and combined with some serious jump powers to give high variety to where the Bro can release them. While the Bro is not impossible to use when projectiles fail to go his way, his moveset is nothing special unless backed up by these powerful neutral tools, so get used to their intricacies!


Down Aerial: Sledge Bro.


Wha-Down Aerial? FrozenRoy, that's not a Special! Bare with me for a moment, because Down Aerial is somewhat critical to understanding how Hammer Bro's Down Special works, so I transposed it up here for a better reading experience. With a use of Down Aerial, Hammer Bro will spin once in the air (anyone who has used the ground pound in a Mario game since 1997, such as Super Mario 64, has seen this animation) as it orients itself to get ready for a ground pound, body puffing up to the size of a mighty Sledge Bro! This remains after the move in the same way as the Fire Bro/Boomerang Bro colorations, but unlike them has a minor effect on gameplay: Hammer Bro's hurtbox is increased to 1.2x its normal size, but it gains 10 Weight units while it is a Sledge Bro, and the range of melee attacks changes to match the increased hurtbox size. The Hammer Bro otherwise remains the same stats-wise.

Now, where was I? Ah yes, Down Aerial, after going full Sledge Bro, said Bro will plummet to the ground as a super high speed stall-than-fall! This is most comparable to Bowser Bomb in terms of stall-than-falls for speed and effect, with the sledging drop dealing a massive 18% on the way down that's a super strong spike! The Bro will cancel out of the move if it grabs a ledge in the same way as a Bowser Bomb or Yoshi Down Special, but otherwise cannot cancel out of this move until it has fallen 6 Ganondorfs of height, which given the Bro's very limited recovery will most likely doom it. Landing itself is a crushing hitbox that deals 20% damage and kills off the top at 100% and thus being one of the strongest flatout kill moves in the Bro's entire arsenal. The Bro also has armor against attacks that deal 6% or less until he lands, but given most aerials deal more damage than that this essentially only matters against multihits.

It is worth noting the two hits will combo into each other against a shield. This juuuuust missing breaking a shield from full, but it only takes a small amount of damage on top of a shield to do so: the Bro's high amount of projectiles opponents will constantly want to shield means that he usually has chip damage that makes this attack a true shield shatterer. This generally makes it much more difficult to punish than your average stall than fall "shield and then punish" tactic.

This is combined with another strong fact of the move, which is a huge landing "hitbox" on it. This hitbox deals NO actual damage, but shakes the earth across the "entire stage" (actually up to a maximum range of Battlefield's main platform split evenly to both sides of the Bro) that causes the opponent to trip if they are on the ground and not shielding, dodging or so on. This trip functions like Snake's Down Throw in that the duration the foe has before they can get up is affected by their current damage percent, using the same formula as Snake's Down Throw. How valuable this is to the Bro is highly variable, but it does offer extra safety and can maybe catch people out with a lingering projectile.

All of this sounds great, but note that this move has some horrible lag: 28 frames of starting lag (3 under a Bowser Bomb's aerial start) and a putrid 56 frames of ending lag when landed! The Bro is a sitting duck if people avoid the hitbox and have ample time to do so, so the opponent should ideally be pre-occupied with one of his numerous lingering hitbox options before trying this, or baiting out an opponent trying to catch a landing and varying the timing with this Down Aerial, his normal fast fall, his speedier fast fall and stalling + creating a hitbox to help contest the landing with an Up Special. The Up Special can even be wavebounced or B-Reversed for more landing safety! There's a lot of other things to worry about too, this move is just about the most obvious Counter bait in the world, but that just means you have to be clever about using it. And if there's one thing Bowser's Army always makes sure, it's that the members are only the brightest!


Down Special: Brotherly Bond

While this is a moveset for a Hammer Bro, it isn't as if it's because he is a frat boy: Hammer Bro means Hammer Brother, or more commonly, Hammer Brothers. In essentially every game with a Hammer Bro, you'll end up finding a level where you have to go after two at once: Be it 8-3 where there's periodic fight against two Hammer Bros in the classic formation of two platforms, or Super Mario Bros. 3 where you'll run into fights with 2 Bros at a time as you progress further into the Worlds. Their projectiles can cover each other in a way that makes it real hard to get to them without taking a hit!


(Thanks to Rychu for this move idea while we were finishing up Whitebeard!)​

Well with Down Special, we truly agree that two is better than one. The playable Hammer Bro whistles out for one of his brethren to assist him in battle, causing a Bro to jump out from behind him, using a Special at the apex of the distance of the Hammer Bro's first jump! Here's where things get a bit "crazy": What type of Bro and what Special it uses depends on what move your Hammer Bro used recently! Remember how using Side Special, Neutral Special, Up Special and Down Aerial changed your Bro's color (or in Up Special's case, returned it to a Hammer Bro)? Well, any other appropriate Boomerang/Fire/Hammer/Sledge attacks will do the same thing, retaining that until the Hammer Bro uses another attack within those four.

When the Hammer Bro uses his Down Special, he summons a Bro that matches the type your Hammer Bro currently is! So if you used Side Special and then activated Down Special, you will summon a Boomerang Bro to help you out. From here on out, I will be using Friend Bro to refer to them for easier use (IE Hammer Friend Bro). They use the appropriate move above when summoned by your Hammer Bro: Up Special for the Hammer Friend Bro, Side Special for the Boomerang Friend Bro, Neutral Special for the Fire Friend Bro and Down Aerial for the Sledge Friend Bro. They all take the same 21 frames to summon, and will go through the attack's normal starting lag for the attack once summoned.

After being summoned, your chosen Friend Bro sticks around! You can only summon a single Friend Bro at a time, so choose which one carefully. They function almost exactly like the Hammer Bro Assist Trophy in how they take damage, die, and whatnot with Hammer Bro's stats (modified in the way outlined for Down Aerial for the Sledge Bro), although they have their own special rules as AI for how to attack and a different moveset. HP amounts will be listed under each Bro. I'll get to the more specific behaviors in a moment, but here is how the Friend Bro generally behaves overall:

- The Friend Bro will jump in place repeatedly for 3 seconds, before throwing out the appropriate base move (Up Special/Side Special/Neutral Special/Down Aerial) as labeled above for each type of Bro. After this attack is used, the Friend Bro then makes a leap to one of two places. If there is a nearby platform (IE reachable within a single jump) of the Friend Bro AND it has not been visited by the Friend Bro yet, it will leap to one of those platforms at random and repeat this process. If it has lept to all nearby platforms, note that most main stages also count, then it will reset the check on if it visited that platform and jump to it again.

Let's use an example. You summon a Friend Bro under the left-most platform of Battlefield, it uses its designated attack. It then leaps to the left-most platform as the closest platform and jumps in place for 3 seconds, then uses its designated attack again. The middle platform is the only valid platform for the Friend Bro to leap to given it has been on both the main platform and left-most platform, so it leaps there. It then jumps in place for 3 seconds and then attacks again, with the only valid platform being the right-most platform it jumps to it. If allowed to jump for 3 seconds and then attack again, it has exhausted all platforms and so resets on where it can go. The Friend Bro can then either leap to the main Battlefield Platform or the top-most platform at random, as both are valid targets for it. Got it?

- If there are no platforms reachable or it is a stage like Final Destination with no platforms, the Friend Bro leaps a distance left/right up to the maximum horizontal movement of the Hammer Bro's first jump. Friend Bros will never willingly leap off stage unless it would land on solid stage, so summoning one near a ledge can corrall where it goes.

- The Friend Bro will, by default, only use the main attack it was summoned for. However it has access to any of the Hammer Bro's attacks of the appropriate type. For example, Hammer Bro's Down Smash is a hammer attack, so a Hammer Friend Bro can use Down Smash. In practice, Friend Bros only use these additional attacks if they are being threatened by the opponent, such as when they are attacked, an opponent staying in their personal space for a while, or so on. They will then be willing to use other attacks until they are no longer being threatened. They will not chase down opponents. Friend Bros cannot be told to use grab.

- Friend Bros will always try to use their designated attack at 3 seconds regardless of the above. They will attempt to leap and move to a different platform after their attempted 3 second attack even if it is interrupted or otherwise stopped.

- Friend Bros have a 20 second recharge timer after they die, which can be seen with the Hammer Bro's portrait eyes glinting just like a fully charged DK Punch. This is a long time to wait, but the Hammer Bro being a projectile spammer helps him get back to it!

- Pressing Down Special while the Friend Bro is out allows the Hammer Bro to whistle and command it to use any other move that is appropriate to the Bro (IE Sledge Friend Bros can only use Sledge Bro moves) by inputting another move, which they will spam every 3 seconds instead of their designated move and otherwise use in the same manner as the designated move. They will delay until appropriately on the ground or in the air for grounded moves / aerial moves. Down Special without any secondary input resets the Friend Bro to its normal, default move.

While the ability to help command your Friend to do other moves does open up alternative options for the Hammer Bro to take advantage of, for the most part the Friend Bro offers a new avenue of projectile play by tossing out new projectiles periodically to add onto the mess the Hammer Bro creates (much like in the actual games), and making it a lot more difficult for opponents to navigate the Hammer Bro's projectile masses. The fact the Friend Bro is constantly jumping and periodically moves only makes them harder to pin down, although it also means they follow a predictable pattern and can spend swathes of time away from the action and so the opponent doesn't have to directly deal with them. In the short of it, the use of the Friend Bro is much like having a second Hammer Bro in a Mario game: A nuisance that adds more projectiles to make it hard to be safe weaving around both.

Now then, for some specifics on each Friend Bro:


Hammer Friend Bro attacks have their move titles begin in Orange and have this helpful Hammer Bro sprite from Super Mario Bros. 3 at the start and end of the move name. Hammer Friend Bros will always throw the same hammer as the last Up Special you threw for their initial attack when entering the stage, then will pick which Hammer to throw at 50/50 random for every hammer throw after that. Like most Friend Bros, the Hammer Friend Bro simply targets the nearest opponent to him mindlessly and without strategy. However, the Hammer Friend Bro will target an opponent who is off stage if one is range, so it can be extra valuable at ledge guarding compared to the other options. Hammer Friend Bros have 35 HP.


Boomerang Friend Bro attacks have their move titles begin in Light Blue and have this swanky Boomerang Bro sprite from Super Mario Bros. 3 at both the start and end of the move. Boomerang Bros choose if to throw 1 or 2 Boomerangs as a random 50/50 for the most part, but will ALWAYS throw the second boomerang if the nearest opponent (who they will aim at) is using a dodge of some kind or shielding. This is not always a good thing as it can mean being baited out, but it also means that it becomes even more difficult to dodge out Hammer Bro's projectiles if Boomerang Friend Bro is waiting! Note that if the boomerang returns to the Boomerang Friend Bro from above or below depends on where in its leaping pattern it was when throwing the boomerang, which has too many variables to say which it will be in a real match (Hammer Bro changing inputs and then back, Boomerang Friend Bro using attacks out of worry of being hit or actually being hit etc), but if no other changes occur to its pattern it will alternate between low and high, starting with low. Boomerang Friend Bros have 25 HP.


Fire Friend Bro have their attack titles start off in a blazing Red, with the Fire Bro sprite from Super Mario Bros. 3 at the start/end of the attack. Fire Bros determine how long to charge their attack depending on how close the opponent is: They will release it at no charge if the opponent is close to them, and will charge up to the maximum charge if no opponent is close to them, releasing as soon as they can if an opponent gets threateningly close (usually one Battlefield Platform in horizontal distance + close enough vertically). Fire Friend Bros' fireball bounce will depend on their verticality like a normal Hammer Bro, so this can mean when in their jump cycle they release the fireball will alter their trajectories, which due to how they charge the attacks depends on how close the opponent is to them. Fire Friend Bros have 30 HP.


Sledge Friend Bros have their attack titles in a bright green compared to Hammer Bro's normal shell green, showing off their chunky boy status at the beginning and end of attacks with their Super Mario Bros. 3 sprite. Sledge Friend Bros will use their Down Aerial at any height if they are in the air when their 3 second timer goes off, but if they are on the ground they will jump and only use the Down Aerial at the apex of their jump if possible, and their default jump cycle means they will do so consistently if uninterrupted. It is also worth noting their tripping hitbox's super high range makes them especially valuable on stages with few platforms compared to the other 3, and can otherwise offer some value outside of the three. The fact the Down Aerial absolutely destroys shields also means their place in the Friend Bro hierarchy is a bit more unique, tending to be more of a finisher to the Hammer Bro's attacks than set up. Sledge Bro will never use Down Aerial if it would send itself off the bottom blast zone and kill it, even if it's 3 second timer comes up. Sledge Friend Bros have 40 HP.


Smash Bro.

As a general note, Friend Bros always release Smash Attacks they are programmed to perform as soon as they can and never charge the attack. Keep that in mind if you set them to do so. Friend Bros will only use grounded attacks when they land from their jump pattern and aerials in the air.


Down Smash: Hamma

Taking out TWO Metal Hammers and thus truly evolving his power level, Hammer Bro lifts them above his head before slamming them down to both sides of him. This Smash Attack has decent range, but the hammers not being that large + slamming them right next to him rather than trying to move forward does limit the range somewhat (compare: G&W Down Smash vs. Dedede F-Smash). The starting lag of this attack is pretty mediocre (Frame 15), and the ending lag is reasonable (FAF 47) as well.

There's two pretty different hitboxes on this attack, a sweetspot at the direct center of each hammer and a sourspot on everything else. The hammer head is a pitfall effect on par with Mr. Game & Watch's Down Smash that deals 13%-18.2% damage, while the rest of the attack deals more damage at 15%-21% but aggressively average knockback that doesn't kill at 180%-155% off the top. The sweetspot of the hammers also do a cool 1.5x shield damage, although the fairly low base damage means this is largely supplemental and it is still unsafe on shield. This makes the sweetspot one of Hammer Bro's best kill confirms, although it should be noted this move's ending lag is substantially more sluggish than a G&W Down Smash at even FAF 47 and that your best kill move, Forward Smash, is preeetty laggy: Kill confirms off this are powerful but difficult.

One of the best ways to get kill confirms off of it is actually with projectiles! A Friend Bro, particularly Hammer Friend or Fire Friend, can toss a Metal Hammer or Single Fireball while you prepare your own of that type and in turn get to ladder someone off the top. Alternately, you can use it to lead into an aerial for kill power, or try to do a crazy read with a Smash Attack on another platform or something. Alternately if you have the Friend Bro set to spam a kill move, you could instead pitfall into a faster setup move and knock them into the Friend Bro's kill move. But you'd need to contend with the Friend Bro's strict timers and movement to get this off, so it is rather obvious.


A Hammer Friend Bro set to spam this offers Hammer Bro a disjointed pitfall option, which is totally terrifying, but the strict timer, only using it once and limited range of motion means the only way to realistically get the foe hit is to bait them into it or combo them into it, which faces many difficulties of timing. It is largely dangerous because Hammer Bro can, say, begin a Forward Smash and get it to strike the foe, maybe even charge it! A potent kill option. The Hammer Friend Bro will not favor this move when defending itself, so it is rare for it to come out let alone pitfall the foe unless you order your Friend to do it.


Up Smash: Bamma

Taking out a pair of boomerangs, Hammer Bro's shell glints blue as he tosses them to both sides of him in an upward arc, causing them to fly above him like a circle where the Hammer Bro is at the bottom, each of the boomerangs coming to rest in the opposite of which hand of Hammer Bro they started at. Basically, they fly up in a circle, where Hammer Bro is the bottom of the circle. This grants Hammer Bro's Up Smash some shocking horizontal range for an Up Smash, although at the cost of taking longer to get to the top as an anti-air. This attack comes out on Frame 9, but it doesn't reach directly above Hammer Bro until Frame 13, although obviously it will be in the air at an angle to get there. The ending lag on this is quite fast and makes it shockingly spammable!

There are three hitboxes on this attack, depending on when you hit the opponent with it. The first is a single frame hitbox when the boomerangs first come out that hits basically entirely horizontal to Hammer Bro, which is a sweetspot that deals 14%-19.6% damage and kills at 155%-125%. Not the strongest move but it is, for all intents and purposes, a fast Down Smash hitbox to pair along with your true Down Smash with the downside of a low duration that misses easily. This hitbox also exists for one frame on Frame 17, the frame the boomerangs RETURN to Hammer Bro, and can catch out opponents forgetful of it. The second hitbox is Frames 10-12 and 14-17 and consists of the two Boomerangs flying out and flying back when not the initial hitbox or as you probably guessed the sweetspot on Frame 13. It is most of the hitbox.

It isn't very strong, dealing 12%-16.8% damage and knockback that won't KO until 245%-200%, but this move's strengths come in the duration and range to begin with. It is particularly adept at anti-airing approaches due to its low risk + duration, but you do need to be careful since depending on the timing a foe can either shorthop over it (the very start) or slip in under it (midway through) to hit Hammer Bro out of it. This coverage is also valuable when considering that your Friend Bros tend to be jumping a lot strong anti-air coverage is particularly valuable to him!

The sweetspot is the one frame both boomerangs overlap directly above Hammer Bro on Frame 13, dealing an especially potent hitbox that deals 17%-23.8% damage and will kill at 105%-70% depending on charge. This is one of Hammer Bro's primary "strong" kill moves alongside Down Aerial and Forward Smash, compared to "secondary" kill moves you'll see that kill a bit more modestly. It's a bit difficult to hit with but missing with it at least often lands a reasonably rewarding secondary hit if you fail it and the large amount of projectiles Hammer Bro can toss out not only encourage jumps to avoid them but also most of his projectiles deal vertical knockback. Perfect setup for a move with a verticality based sweetspot! This requires more precision than the "go ham" Forward Smash but in return is much easier to properly use. One downside is that the move's anti-air and other uses can lead to it becoming staled and reducing the kill power it has.


Since the Boomerang Friend Bro's normal designated attack comes out horizontally before curving vertically, programming it to use Up Smash flips the script to control it in a near-opposite manner. There's no indication of what move the Hammer Bro suggested his friend use until it comes out, so this can be a surpriser. Being a big anti-air also makes it useful to opponents trying to strike the Bro thinking to take advantage of its jump pattern. And in general, a high range move is a good idea to use with the Friend Bros.


Forward Smash: Flare

The laggiest attack in Hammer Bro's arsenal has his shell shine a blazing red as fire begins to gather in his mouth, taking even longer than the mighty King of Koopa's Neutral Special (praise His Corpulence!) at Frame 27. This good ol' Bro then shoots out a stream of fire breath in the same manner as Bowser's Neutral Special but at 0.8x the size, but this time the attack ends with a final push of flames that cause them to explode outwards for a finisher hitbox! The first part of the attack, which has quite the long duration, deals 12%-16.8% damage over its entire existence followed by an additional 12%-16.8% damage on the finisher hitbox and the best knockback in ye olde Bro's entire set with a kill range of 80%-50% on Mario at the center of Final Destination! This is a heavyweight level attack on the otherwise very middleweight Hammer Bro and so commands a lot of respect within his set. The very high duration particularly punishes things like stupidly aggressive rolls or air dodges in past projectiles, or otherwise opponents pinned down and panicking. This attack is treated as a disjointed hitbox rather than a projectile.

It must be noted in addition to bad starting lag, this move has high ending lag AND a long duration, so Hammer Bro is putting a huge "Kick Me" note on the back of himself if he misses this. Friend Bros can help alleviate this by covering him with their own attacks, but their strict timer severely limits how long this is viable, and the lag is enough that foes can often take advantage of this. In short this is your hard read option, when you've understood how the opponent is reacting to your projectile maelstrom and are going to call out "stop that or die". It CAN serve as a kill confirm from a Down Smash pitfall, but only at percents exceeding its actual kill range or an opponent being terrible at mashing.


Fire Friend Bros using Forward Smash as their designated attack are incredibly vulnerable and easy to kill, but the long duration gives Hammer Bro a lot of time to hit the opponent into it and it is an extremely powerful kill move. It's all or nothing when you get a Fire Friend Bro to do this one! Fire Friend Bros basically never use this as a "get off me" move due to the excessive lag, so you'll almost never see this outside of a command.


Grounded Bro.


Dash Attack: Sledgin' Slide


Bulking up to the hefty size of a Sledge Bro, Hammer Bro emulates the most heavyweightiest of moves: The shoulder charge! The slightly larger, Sledgier body helps grant the Bro a larger hitbox as he performs a single push forward in a Ganondorf-esque manner, and just like Ganondorf there's two hitboxes here: A strong hitbox at the start (when the Hammer Bro hulks up to Sledge Bro size) and a weaker hitbox for the rest of it. The initial hitbox deals a strong 13.5% damage and kills at around 130%, not reaching the heights of the heavyweight kings the Hammer Bro looks up to but still being reasonably powerful, while the later hit does a pretty low 8.5% and only kills at 220%: Better than nothing, but not a particularly impressive move. The plus side is that it comes out fast (Frame 8) and ends faster than, say, Ganondorf's Dash Attack at Frame 31 (Ganondorf's is FAF 37) and so is a pretty safe move to throw out.

At close ranges, this attack is safe on shield by crossing the opponent up, but hitting with the late hit tends to be unsafe unless the foe has exclusively slow out of shield options OR you land at the very end of the hitbox. And even then a fast out of shield option can get you. This makes it more safe as an "if you miss" option than a shielded one, but you probably won't be punished otherwise. The burst of speed at the start allows it to be a quick punish tool in the middle of Hammer Bro's projectile along with an approach tool. The start of the attack on the sweetspot's active frames has a small amount of knockback-based armor in the same manner as Hammer Bro's double jump but much weaker: Exact figures are difficult without way too much research of the knockback formula, but most middle-weak-ish tilts can be powered through at 0% (think attacks of, say, 8% or less) while by 77% Hammer Bro can only power through weak attacks like non-single-hit jabs. You shouldn't be relying on this armor much but it can come in hand at a fair few times.


Sledge Friend Bros programmed to use this as their designated attack will dash forward at 3 seconds under normal conditions until one of three things happens (with the conditions being checked in that order at all times):

1. If an opponent is in range of the hitbox (any range), it will attack as soon as possible.

2. If it hits the end of range it can reach, such as the edge of a platform, it uses the attack at the edge of the platform.

3. If the Sledge Friend Bro dashes for 1 Battlefield Platform's of distance without triggering any of the above two conditions, it uses Dash Attack.

Sledge Friend Bros will use Dash Attack as a defensive tool given it can come out as an Instant Dash Attack, which with the knockback-based armor can be a surprise at times. Telling a Sledge Friend Bro to use Dash Attack can be effective, especially on stages with mostly large or more limited platforms (such as Smashville, Final Destination, or Yoshi's Island SSB4) but it will be less useful on stages like Battlefield where the Sledge Friend Bro will likely be leaping from small platform to small platform. Being a rush in move makes it contrast the more stationary uses of most Friend Bro options, so it has a rather unique niche among them.


Jab: Fiery Flurry

The first two hits of Hammer Bro's Jab are very basic, a close ranged straight punch followed swiftly by another. Maybe this Hammer Bro has been studying his plumberly opponent to learn his techniques? This is a very fast pair of Jabs where each one comes out 1 frame later than Mario's with 1 frame extra ending lag, doing 1.9% damage each hit. These attacks do not cause the Bro to change his current form, so you can always throw out a Jab 1 as a quick defensive tool regardless of your current form without worrying about changing it. It also fits with the fact that Hammer Bro is generally NOT a laggy character and so he has a pretty safe tool at close ranges here, although being a stubby little punch it doesn't have the range of basically every other move in Hammer Bro's set.

Hammer Bro lacks a single finisher and instead always has a rapid jab finisher followed by a finishing hit, shell turning red as the Bro opens his mouth and sparks of fire shoot out in a manner similar to Pyra's rapid jab. This deals 0.6% per hit and will almost always combo for at least 3% damage out of the first two hits, with more able to be racked up at lower damages (or if the opponent fails to SDI). The final hit is simply a large burst of flame in front of the Bro for 4.1% damage, sending opponents at an angle that starts forcing opponents to tech at around 20%~ and continues until like 100%. Needless to say Hammer Bro has a LOT of ways to take advantage of these situations with his multitude of projectiles at varied ranges, so having access to this on a Jab is quite valuable. This move usually isn't "unsafe" on shield, but the opponent gets enough frame advantage that they're in advantage after a successful shield. This overall serves as one of Hammer Bro's quick close range tools and is a staple of his gameplay.


Fire Friend Bros will primarily use this attack to defend against opponents aggressing them, giving them the fastest option in the entire set for defense and making them one of the better ones at defending themselves. Fitting for the Friend Bro that changes its behavior based on the foe's range! The Jab's knockback creating tech situations gains additional value when it is separated from the Hammer Bro, who can toss out a projectile and probably reply to the foe post-ending lag.


Forward Tilt: Shell Crack

Lifting a wooden hammer to the skies, Hammer Bro performs a very quick hammer smash in front of him that looks eerily similar to Paper Mario using a hammer in the field during Paper Mario 64 or The Thousand Year Door. This is a very quick attack, the same speed as Lucina's Down Tilt, with quite low ending lag to boot! The Hammer Bro's hammer, being more of a bludgeoning tool than a sword, lacks the reach you'd associate with a Fire Emblem swordie but nonetheless is disjointed and can beat out a lot of more melee-only characters. The damage in turn is quite low at 7%, with Sakurai Angle knockback that has reasonable scaling and largely serves as a tool to re-enter neutral in advantage on hit. It scales up to kill at 215%, which is fairly bad, but note that Hammer Bro excels at edge guarding so just sending people off stage near the ledge at more reasonable percents (say, 120%) can set up a kill instead.

At low percents you don't get a lot of space from this, so it's a bit difficult for the Hammer Bro, but from about 30% and onwards this is quite the solid neutral reset. Jab is faster and gives more advantage but has substantially worse range on a character who wants to spam projectiles and that is a big downside, so Forward Tilt serves a lot better purpose in that regard. It even hits slightly above Hammer Bro for what that is worth. It is also worth noting that almost every fast attack in Hammer Bro's kit has another purpose to it: Changing the Hammer Bro's type. Using Jab all the time is going to lock you into only Fire Friend Bros being summonable, which is not ideal. Both of them give you time to throw out a Down Special, so it is worth considering which one to use for which Friend Bro you want even outside of pure opponent fighting. This attack is also much safer on shield than Jab due to the disjointed range, though like most attacks needs to be spaced properly.


This is the main attack Hammer Friend Bros will use to get opponents off of if they get aggressive with the Hammer Friend Bro, and is a pretty safe option overall. Setting the Hammer Friend Bro to use this attack isn't particularly useful, but it is at least fast and safe.


Down Tilt: Boomerang Buster

From the Hammer Bro's crouched position, he throws out a single Boomerang that runs just above the ground (the boomerang is horizontal rather than vertical) for about one Battlefield Platform. Similar to a Bayonetta Bullet Art this attack is treated as a disjointed hitbox rather than a projectile despite the range which helps against enemies with pesky reflectors! This is reasonably quick to come out given the range (Frame 9) and has short ending lag: Hammer Bro gets to move before the Boomerang has fully returned to him, although unlike his Side Special the boomerang simply poofs out of existence (in a familiar white cloud of "poof" from 3D Marios) if it reaches where it was thrown and the Bro is not there to take it. The hitbox slides low to the ground and so can be very easily jumped over, but it also means it can very easily shield poke, which considering all of the projectiles to chip away at the enemy's shield leads in pretty easily!

The damage itself is quite small, 5%, but that is because Down Tilt serves as Hammer Bro's primary combo starter, popping up opponents with light upwards knockback that veeery slightly is inwards towards Hammer Bro. The hitstun on this hit is fairly high (think something like Mii Swordfighter's Gale Strike) and will lead into almost anything not slow in Hammer Bro's moveset, such as any of the aforementioned Standards, an Up Smash (although you need very specific percents to combo into the strong sweetspot along with specific ranges. It doesn't work as a kill confirm!), and so on. Particularly deadly is to combine this with Hammer Bro's Forward Aerial, as the boomerang can go off ledges and Hammer Bro's Forward Aerial is a fairly solid spike. This doesn't always work but is one of Hammer Bro's best tools for a KO! Needless to say you'll be seeing a lot of this attack, being the more aggressive option compared to Jab or Forward Tilt when it comes to neutral.


Boomerang Friend Bros will use this to try and escape, but compared to Hammer, Sledge and Fire Friend Bros it is the least effective close-range option. Up Smash actually tends to be the Boomerang Friend Bro's most prominent defensive tool when attacked, but it is more punishable than most of the other's defensive options. Boomerang Friend Bros will not follow-up on Down Tilt hits used defensively which can be problematic. It's a solid starter to tell a Boomerang Friend Bro to use but it's generally not THAT useful because most hits can be some level of combo starter when on an ally while being more damaging.


Up Tilt: Sledgebutt

Hefting up with the size of a Sledge Bro, the Hammer Bro performs a headbutt up that has a rather similar animation to King Dedede's Up Tilt mixed together with Mario's Up Smash. It comes out the same speed as Mario's Up Smash with moderate ending lag in the process and two hitboxes on it. For one frame, when the Hammer Bro is first headbutting up with the force of a Sledge Bro, dealing 10% damage and decent knockback that nonetheless fails to kill until 170%. This hitbox is like Mario's Up Smash in that it begins behind Hammer Bro. The rest of the hitbox is a weak upwards hitbox that deals 6.5% damage and some light knockback, serving as Hammer Bro's other main combo starter from the ground. At low percents Up Tilt combos into itself two or three times in a way not unlike Mario's Up Tilt, which can lead into an aerial like Neutral Aerial as well. The sweetspot can be safe on shield depending on the opponent, but the sourspot is always unsafe on shield.

Hammer Bro's head is intangible during the headbutt, and the rest of Hammer Bro's upper body has knockback-based super armor of 1.3x the strength as Dash Attack, which makes this move extremely good at catching landings and challenging opponent's aerials! This works together as a 1-2 punch with Up Smash which has high range but can be very vulnerable if the opponent slips under it (since Hammer Bro has to wait for the boomerangs to get above him for landings and to return afterwards), Up Tilt doesn't have the same range but beats out attempted landings and pops the opponent up for follow-ups. Compared to Down Tilt this tends to make less valuable combos in exchange for the aforementioned higher utility and some potential as a launcher / VERY late kill option in return. This move is also less aggressive than Dash Attack if you want to slip into Sledge for a Down Special: Sledge Friend Bros are the only type of Bro without a projectile Special, so it can be harder to access them by comparison.

It also should be remembered that most of Hammer Bro's projectiles have upwards knockback, so that makes the ability to catch people landing extra potent: Opponents can be put into the stressful situation of dealing with both another Up Special, a well timed Up Smash, a defensive Up Tilt or a range-y Up Aerial, all of which allow Hammer Bro to swap between Hammer, Boomerang or Sledge depending on the option.


Sledge Friend Bros will favor Up Tilt over Dash Attack as a defensive option if the opponent is in the air and this can be a solid option to defend itself from opponents slow on the gun to punish a missed Down Aerial designated attack, although Down Aerial is so slow that opponent's kinda need to mess up for that to be effective. Up Tilt's defensive abilities can make it interesting to turn into a Sledge Friend Bro's designated attack but requires Hammer Bro to take advantage of it by forcing opponents into landing situations. Fortunately all of the vertical hitboxes make that relatively easy!


Aerial Bro.


Neutral Aerial: Fire Spin

Spinning around as fire spills out of his mouth and his shell turns red, Hammer Bro isn't performing any Pokemon move here! In fact it, visually, is closer to Lucas' Neutral Aerial but with fire rather than psychic hexagons. This deals 4 hits of 1.4% (for a total of 5.6%) followed by a final hit of 2.4% damage for a total of 7% and light knockback away. This move has very generous landing lag and so serves primarily as a combo tool for Hammer Bro, especially so when it comes from air-to-ground. Jab is a super clean combo tool out of this while Forward Tilt also smoothly comes out, while Dash Attack or Up Smash are your power options out of this. Note that Down Tilt has a good chance to miss outside of very low percents due to the very low hitbox, but it's your best move out of this until then.

This move has reasonably fast starting lag (Frame 7) and the ending lag ain't too bad either, with the real killer being duration plus a small range that makes it dangerous to whiff with, particularly against characters with a strong midrange like Ike or Donkey Kong who can wait outside this range in the air. Hammer Bro can get another Neutral Aerial or Up Aerial out of this with a double jump until higher percents when it becomes uncertain and serves as a solid enough combo tool there due to this. The long duration helps it catch out air dodges, which can be mixed up with the similarly long duration Up Aerial and sometimes the range-y Back Aerial against opponents trying to dodge around.


This is a Fire Friend Bro's main defensive tool in the air for obvious reasons, but it doesn't send opponents very far. The long duration plays well with a Friend Bro's constantly jumping nature as a designated move and can allow Hammer Bro to get a good aerial off in return, but it's high risk considering the reward is more moderate.



Hoisting his hammer high above his head, Hammer Bro slams his hammer down in front of him with a vicious, spiking strike! Think of it kind of like Donkey Kong's forward aerial, but with a hammer instead of arms. A heavily laggy aerial to start (Frame 17), the center of the hammer attack is a spike that deals 17% damage and power slightly above a Mario Forward Aerial, which means it's definitely strong enough to kill but won't be launching people all the way to doom at 0%. The rest of the hammer is a sourspot that deals 11.5% damage and won't kill until 130%, which isn't terrible but is pretty underwhelming for the lag you're getting here. The end lag on this attack is also long without a very meaningful autocancel window, meaning you'll get punished if you miss this and it can't punish air dodges with another quick move.

The fact Hammer Bro has a disjointed spike at all is incredibly dangerous due to his very strong ledge game, particularly with the vertical orientation of his projectile's knockback! A hammer launching the opponent upwards offstage can meet Hammer Bro's personal hammer to spike them down for a solid kill, not to mention the flinging of projectiles from your Friend Bros, a properly spaced Down Tilt, reading air dodges from avoiding the multitude of options Hammer Bro has in store, and more! This is, in all honesty, your "primary" kill move because of how well it plays into your kit. The sourspot can also get moderately paced as a kill option in situations where the opponent is off stage, so it's all around great aside from being so unsafe.


Designating this as the Hammer Friend Bro's attack can either be very useful or moderately useless, depending on the situation. On a stage like Smashville with a moving platform or the platforms with the right position, the Hammer Friend Bro can potentially cover the ledge with his spiking hitbox or what have you. But if the stage isn't a stage where that's feasible, such as Battlefield, it's a laggy attack with mediocre kill power that can just lead to spike-combos. As an aside, Hammer Friend Bros will make sure to try and jump to places good in position on whatever platform they leap to when on their movement pattern if this is their designated attack. So you can use this for some position manipulation.


Up Aerial: King's Decree

Thrusting his wooden hammer upwards, Hammer Bro spins it rapidly above him in mimicry of Dream Land's king, although the smaller size of the Bro's hammer means this is not as chunky of a hitbox. This is a pretty strong, rapidly striking hitbox that begins on Frame 10 and hits for 6 hits of 1.2% damage each (7.2% damage total) every 2 frames followed by a finishing hit of 5.8% damage for a total of 13% damage! That's quite a lot of damage on one aerial, and the knockback killing at 138% isn't bad at all, making it one of Hammer Bro's most useful aerials. For a lot of Hammer Bro's projectiles going into the air in some way or air dodging is a viable source of dodging, and Up Aerial serves as an excellent answer to that kind of aerial movement. Hammer Bro also could drag opponents around some as he moves, especially due to mixing up his default floatiness and heavier fast fall! The ending lag on this is a bit chunky, but it isn't terrible by any means.

While this move lacks very good autocancel windows, in particular after the move finishes it won't autocancel until the last 2 frames of ending lag, there ARE two useful windows Hammer Bro can go for: The frame between hits 2/3 and the frame between hits 4/5. both of which are very strict one frame options. But if Hammer Bro DOES hit land during these, this can lead into a Neutral Aerial, Up Tilt (either hit), Forward Tilt or Jab if you should want to for some reason, making it a bit of a combo tool. Drag downs can also force enemies into tech situations if you shark them on a platform, which can lead to Up Smash on a read (though given you need to frame perfect land then get the Up Smash timing perfect it is very difficult!) or more. Up Aerial is also adept at covering ledge options such as ledge jump or falling down in front of a ledge to cover enemies getting back to it, with hammer Bro's variable fall speed once again coming into play.


A Hammer Friend Bro persuaded to use this move is going to become a periodic wall to the opponent, throwing out a long lasting hitbox above itself with variations depending on when in the jump it would throw it out. It places the onus to aggressively put the opponent there on Hammer Bro himself, but it can lead to some strong combo plays! Hammer Friend Bros will use Up Aerial for defensive if the opponent is above them, but it is otherwise not very useful for obvious reasons.


Back Aerial: Boomerange

Turning blue as can be, the Bro takes out his boomerang and quickly tosses it behind him with only a brief glance behind him. It isn't the fastest aerial for sure, coming out at the speed of Villager's Back Aerial, but that's the sacrifice one has to make for a projectile aerial like this sometimes! This boomerang travels 1 Battlefield Platform of distance at a modest speed before turning around and trying to head back to Hammer Bro, curving slightly if it needs to given Hammer Bro's vertical movement. The boomerang disappears if it reaches where Hammer Bro was horizontally when it threw out the boomerang, so it doesn't have tooooo huge of horizontal range for a Back Aerial here. Each hit of the boomerang deals 4% damage and light knockback, the first hit away and the second inwards. Ending lag is overall mediocre.

Hammer Bro can definitely toss this out to enhance his ledge-projectile game, but RARing this in neutral also tends to be a strong idea and mixup with Down Tilt, and part of the more keepaway game aspect of his playstyle. The late hit of the attack can lead into a small combo at the right time, but more commonly brings the foe close to Hammer Bro with frame advantage but not a true combo. Neutral Aerial is an obvious option, but on the ground a Jab, Forward Tilt or even an Up Tilt could be gone for as well. This can be a filler for space in the Side Special boomerangs to vary up timings but still get boomerangs out. And while Hammer Bro's attack is not as strong for edgeguarding as Villager's, he has many other projectiles to make the actual edgeguarding more dangerous!

In general the key thing to keep in mind is when you hit the foe. Late in the hitbox means both hitboxes hitting, which means the opponent being sent closer to Hammer Bro. Unless you go for an attempted Forward Aerial, which will not combo and thus is risky, this is not good for edgeguarding but is ideal for the aforementioned combos. An early hit knocks opponents away instead, more useful for edgeguarding but meaning overall Hammer Bro doesn't get 100% range on his attempts with it.


Boomerang Friend Bros will use this to defend themselves in the air if they must, but it isn't a great move for that, so that's a bother for them. It can be put in as the Boomerang Friend Bro's attack of choice and fulfill some combo usage, but in general when it comes to your Friend you'd rather have Side Special overall.


Throw Bro


Grab: Grab Bro

Hammer Bro can obviously grab in every form, and with the exception of Sledge Bro they are essentially all the same: A moderately ranged grab that is slightly fast and overall pretty solid. Sledge Bro form has 2 additional frames of starting lag, making it trend towards a slower grab, but also has heavy armor against attacks 3% or less than lets him grab through some jabs or the like in return.

Pummel: Gang Up!

Hammer Bro's pummel DOES vary depending on the form he is in! For all that matters, anyway. Hammer is the default and a moderately paced pummel that deals 1.8%, Boomerang Bro works the same way but is two hits of 0.9% instead. Sledge Bro clonks the opponent over the head with a fist for a slow 2.9%, while Fire Bro is a quick burst of flame that is a fast pummel that only does 0.9% damage. Overall rates of damage are largely similar between all forms, but it injects some of that juicy flavor to the moveset!

However, there IS a larger aspect to this pummel, or at least this input! All of Hammer Bro's Throws use a different weapon, you see, and switch him into it as normal, and it'd be a pain if you only had one throw open without being forced to swap. So everything I just mentioned only applies if Hammer Bro TAPS the pummel input. HOLDING the pummel instead allows Hammer Bro unique access to a "Pummel Throw" depending on his current weapon! Your Friend Bro will potentially react to these in unique ways as well, so they're some interesting throw alternatives that also give reason for the Bro to try out grabs in each individual form.


Sledge Pummel Throw: Pile Hammer

Hefting the opponent above his head with Sledge level strength, the Bro takes the opponent head-first and slams them into the ground! Anyone familiar with Donkey Kong's evil monarch would know Hammer Bro is once again taking a page from a different vile king (he better hope Bowser doesn't hear about this!), pitfalling the opponent while dealing 6.5% damage to them. The pitfall is the same strength as King K. Rool's, so you can use that as a timer guide here, but Hammer Bro generally has less immediately powerful follow-up options due to having less power in his set overall. On the plus side, fast options like Down Tilt, Forward Tilt or Jab all serve as your standard lower percentage follow-ups, with Forward Smash being your super risky kill option and a sweetspot Up Tilt being the more modest KO option. Forward Smash's long duration and power means it can be somewhat of a mixup tool as it will absolutely catch out enemies who panic air dodge out of pitfalls, which as anyone who plays Quickplay can tell you is preeeeeetty common.

Up Smash is an interesting tool to consider here. Hitting the sweetspot is super difficult because of the timing variation of mashing, but Hammer Bro charging the attack in anticipation of an opponent deliberately slow-mashing to avoid some punish options (such as Forward Aerial) could be caught out predictably, and an uncharged Up Smash can sweetspot a fast mash at some percentages. The addition of the Friend Bro also is a big deal, as an outside attack could come into play for Hammer Bro to play off of such as a hammer vertically setting up the foe. Likewise, Hammer Bro could throw out his own Hammer, charge up a fireball (another air dodge punish tool) or even a long lasting boomerang in order to take advantage of this instead with even more advantage if a Friend is out! For example if you know a Hammer Friend Bro's cycle is about to toss out a hammer, you could toss out your own Hammer with the timing both hammers will combo into each other with a late mash but an air dodge on the Friend Bro's hammer will allow the second hammer to hit on a fast mash! This isn't getting into other lingering hitboxes already being out or so on, so I'll let you imagine those for yourself.


Sledge Friend Bros within a certain range of Hammer Bro, to be specific if they are within the range where a Dedede Up Special could reach the Hammer Bro's location when using this throw, will perform a massive leap towards the Hammer Bro if he uses this throw! This leap has the same range as Super Dedede Jump and will have the Sledge Bro use their Down Aerial when they are directly above the foe. This instantly puts massive pressure on a pitfalled opponent and can flatout combo if the opponent's percentage is too high or they fail to mash quickly, making it a potent kill confirm! The fact the Sledge Bro is bearing down on them also just illicits an instant reaction usually, so Hammer Bro gets to take advantage of that how he will.


Fire Pummel Throw: Fire Drive

The Bro stomps the opponent onto the ground and holds them firmly in place, spitting fire into their face which wraps around the foe over five hits of 5% damage each, the last hit knocking the opponent in front of Hammer Bro in a short ranged neutral reset. Hammer Bro has the frame advantage here, but the distance is risky to go for an Up Special Hammer and so it is better to go for a Side Special boomerang or single Neutral Special fireball if the desire is for some campier measures. Forward Tilt is a good one to toss out if you think the opponent will carelessly rush in, while Down Tilt can be thrown out at low cost and start a combo but has to watch the opponent shorthopping in against the Bro. It's certainly not as instantly appealing as the Sledge Pummel Throw, for sure!

However, the fire that has gathered on the foe will remain for the next 5 seconds, before bursting outwards in a classic time bomb hitbox. This one deals 6% damage and light upwards knockback: Not all too notable and definitely won't be getting kills, but it works excellently into stuff like Up Special or Up Aerial for combos, and Forward Aerial's potent spike can use this as one of Hammer Bro's big kill options off a ledge! It can also leave the opponent to deal with both a Friend Bro's upcoming attacks, an imminent Fire Drive explosion AND Hammer Bro itself, allowing Hammer Bro to crack through enemy defenses not via power or speed but sheer volume and force of will!


A Fire Friend Bro who is within range of Hammer Bro (standing in the middle of Battlefield will trigger any of them within a radius that encompasses all 3 platforms), although the closer they are the faster they will arrive to Hammer Bro as they rush at maximum speed to him! They use Hammer Bro's own movement stats to get there. Once close to Hammer Bro, they will join in at breathing fire on the foe: This deals an additional 1% damage the frame before each of Hammer Bro's hits and adds 1% more to the fiery time bomb set afterwards! If used right next to a Fire Friend Bro, it will add +5% damage to both, while the very edge of the range won't give the Fire Friend Bro enough time to do anything but will reposition it.

The Fire Friend Bro's timer will be paused while performing actions associated with this move and will not interrupt moves it is in to do this, so it won't be doing anything with them if the Friend Fire Bro is attacking which can itself be useful sometimes. Even if the Fire Friend Bro is too far to contribute much to this attack it DOES allow Hammer Bro free repositioning he otherwise lacks, which is also useful!


Hammer Pummel Throw: Hammer Up!

Hammer Bro's Hammer pummel throw is probably the most simple, just grabbing the foe and smacking them with his hammer for 7% damage, almost like he was teeing off a golf ball or smacking away a baseball. This deals modest knockback that serves as a longer range spacing tool than the Fire Pummel Throw, with Hammer Up Special being a particularly strong follow-up! There isn't a lot more to say about this throw by itself, frankly: It's about as basic of a longer range spacing tool as it gets and Hammer Bro's projectile options out of it should be self-explanatory by now.

If there is a Hammer Friend Bro out on the field, then it will ready it's own hammer while Hammer Bro aims directly at them with his hammer swing! The base knockback is enough to likely hit the foe to the Hammer Bro, and if it reaches them your Friend will strike them back right towards Hammer Bro with the same 7% damage hitbox! This also refreshes the regrab timer, just to prevent any Shenanigans of too much strength, and turns this throw into a 14% damage combo starter into a toooooooon of Hammer Bro's kit. Something like Forward Smash is too laggy, but you're overall fair game to build-a-bear workshop this to your heart's content!

It won't interrupt a Hammer Bro in the middle of an attack OR if the attack they are about to do would come out during the same timeframe the foe would reach the foe after Hammer Bro's throw (assuming no DI), which opens up the possibility for Hammer Bro to be the combo starter to his Friend Bro instead albeit with some tricky timing. But this can lead to stuff like, say, Forward Aerial or Down Smash if ordered to do so beforehand, so there's scary options at play here!


Boomerang Pummel Throw: Boomerang Boys

The Boomerang Pummel Throw is the one that changes the most depending on the Boomerang Friend Bro's existing and positioning, so we're going to put their segment first here. The Hammer Bro grips the opponent tight and winds up, almost like a baseball player, before throwing them at the nearest Boomerang Friend Bro! This toss does 3% as the Boomerang Friend Bro tosses its own boomerang, which snags the opponent out of the air for 3% and traps them on the boomerang for canned animation. The boomerang is a projectile but cannot be pocketed or reflected to prevent silliness and the opponent goes through a grab release animation and 3% damage to go with it if anything would make it impossible for them to get on, the boomerang gets stuck, and in general an all-purpose programmed "bail out" situation.

If something DOESN'T go wrong, then the next hit is still a bit dependent. If Hammer Bro didn't input any direction while throwing the foe, the boomerang returns to the Boomerang Friend Bro and the opponent is flung off right before it finishes doing so for 6% damage and damage in the direction the boomerang is going but at a 20 degree angle. If Hammer Bro did input a direction, then the Boomerang will travel that direction for 2/3rds of a Battlefield Platform before flinging opponents at a 20 degree angle from the direction it was traveling. This is essentially a throw that gives supreme control over WHERE you want the opponent and can like the Hammer Pummel Throw lead to combos, but Hammer Bro has a lot of ending lag after using it and so direct combos are harder to do. This throw is pretty bad if the Boomerang Friend Bro is not in proper range to catch the foe or is in the middle of an attack, though, and this does have one of the smaller ranges of the Pummel Throws.


When used without a Boomerang Friend Bro ready, Hammer Bro does it himself by attaching the foe to his boomerang and flinging it in a direction of the Bro's choice, the enemy being flung off for 6% damage and the 20 degree knockback etc angle mentioned before. Any follow-up potential is highly lost due to still long ending lag on the throw without the Boomerang Friend Bro to extend how long it takes / make the hitbox more desynced from Hammer Bro, but it does mean that there's plenty of repositioning to go around, and the boomerang's return trip can damage outside enemies in non-1v1s just like before (for the same hitbox).

Up Throw: Super Sledge Breaker

Bulking out as the Hammer Bro bearhugs the opponent (truly, this is now Zangief Bro), the Bro takes to the skies in a Kirby/Meta Knight style suplex! On the way down, though, the Bro shifts to instead have the opponent laying up on them like a King K. Rool-style backbreaker! While not as strong as the Kremling King, this 13% damage move is still an excellent KO Throw that kills at around 175%. Off, say, the top platform of Battlefield the KO power is instead at 125%, making it a pretty strong finisher for the Hammer Bro! That's quite early for a KO Throw and can be quite consistent, although it still means Hammer Bro isn't KOing at some Ganondorf F-Smash level or anything. This throw also lacks utility: You're really ONLY going to use it for kills. But isn't that what the heavyweight power is all about?

Forward Throw: Fire Storm

Changing into a bright red shell, Hammer Bro tosses the foe into the air in front of it as a minor amount of flame gathers in its mouth, before rapidfire spitting them out at the foe in a manner that seems a lot like Mewtwo's Forward Throw! The actual toss only deals 3.2% damage, but the rapid fireballs deal up to six hits of 1.8% damage each that leads to a total of 14% damage and one of the most damaging Forward Throws in the game! That's if every single fireball hits, the foe can DI away from some of them like Mewtwo, but it's a lot of damage and the last one can kill at 190% or so. The opponent is generally left far above Hammer Bro and somewhat forward regardless.

This is not only an excellent position to toss an Up Special hammer, but the height + quite low ending lag on this attack means Hammer Bro is in an excellent position to chase down landings. Boomerang SSpec or charged fireballs are your projectile options, but your Up Tilt, Up Smash and Up Aerial make for quite the trio of landing catchers! It's also worth noting the fireballs from this keep opponents locked in and tend to be vertical, so if you have a properly positioned Friend Bro out then this is one of the better ones for just keeping the enemy in one spot for them to swat away.


Back Throw: Boomerang Slashes

Hammer Bro turns the foe around with a single slash at point-blank range with a boomerang of 3% damage, followed by more of an overhand slashing swing with the boomerang that deals an additional 4.5% damage. The knockback on this is of a fairly high base but low scale and fails to KO at 240%, but the plus side to this attack is a largely horizontal and flat knockback, the most outside of a properly spaced Boomerang Pummel Throw but even then having to throw with the ground there means this CAN be more horizontal.

The end result is that the main purpose of this throw is it is THE premiere throw for setting up all those edgeguard options I told you about earlier! I have re-iterated them enough not to go super in-depth here, but Up Special Hammer is going to be your main follow-up at higher percents (where the Bro can certainly go for another projectile on top of that), but all of Hammer Bro's projectiles have their niche and you can go aggressive with Forward Aerial, Neutral Aerial, falling Up Aerial and so on to boot, with a flashy ledge-canceled Down Aerial the most risky yet cool looking of the options. All of this also means Back Throw is very useful in one of the positions you'll most be using it, which is after getting up from a ledge to grab an opponent trying to guard YOU. An excellent reversal option on display! When not using it for an edgeguard, though, you're probably better served with Forward Throw or Down Throw.


Down Throw: Bro Capture!


Taking a page from old school art of old school Hammer Bros, the Hammer Bro takes out a rope and ties the opponent up in it, taking the opponent to the ground for 4% damage before getting up, having forced themselves into prone! The rope snaps the moment the opponent picks a prone option (no wonder Mario and Luigi could escape so easily...) but work well enough for the reference animation, with this being your normal prone-style Down Throw. Compared to Snake's this one does NOT scale with damage percent! This means it is more viable and consistent at early percents, but it never scales into a kill confirm like Snake's can.

Hammer Bro can't combo well off of this, although if he wants to Jab can, but his tech chase game is GREAT! Side Special and Neutral Special are the staple tools here compared to the hammer, with Side Special carrying a lot of weight in terms of spatial control, while Down Tilt provides a combo starting tool that is difficult to roll around. Neutral Aerial can provide another tech chasing combo starter that can be hopped in place to catch out getup attacks. Opponent at high percents? Go all or nothing with Forward Smash's great range, which will roast opponents for a great early kill...or leave Hammer Bro feeling the pain if he picks the wrong direction! Up Smash's two directions can cover multiple options but has no chance to hit the sweetspot. Down Aerial can be a prediction that can re-trip the opponent although the long landing lag prevents this from ever chaining, but get a Friend Bro in the mix and that's locking the opponent down for your ally to take them on quite a bit! These are just options off the top of my head, there's a lot of room for freestyling here, but all of this makes Down Throw a "default" throw option if none of the Pummel Throws are properly set up or the situation isn't right for his more specific other throws. Don't be afraid to use it!


Final Smash: Every Single Brother

Hammer Bro points a finger forward, ordering the gang to get 'em as a Friend Bro of each type rushes forward as an activation hitbox. Everyone looks like they just lost a minigame in Mario Party if they miss, but if they hit then you get a very dramatic cinematic that shoots a split second shot of every Bro variant in the entire Mario series! From the Hammer Bro you're playing as to the Yo Bro and even the most mysterious Business Bro, everyone joins the party in throwing a projectile at the opponent for a bunch of little hits that add up to 35%, before the Hammer Bro throws a BIG hammer that "shatters" the screen for 25% damage and returns us to the Battlefield! This kills at 60% (pre-hit) and is also rather amusing to land.

Playstyle: Brothers in Arms

So, we've gone over a lot in Hammer Bro here. Let's bring it back a little. The core concept of Hammer Bro is exactly what you would expect from the character: Chucking projectiles to confound opponents who must try to approach through it, with the hammer being one of the primary tools alongside his brothers' arms in fireballs and boomerangs. Calling upon a second brother allows him to either double up on the pressure, to leave behind someone who will equally throw out projectiles so he can approach, or who will cover him with close range attacks while he continues his more campy gameplay. The most important skills with Hammer Bro are spacing and timing, followed by spatial and situational awareness: His ceiling on physical controller execution is rather low compared to most characters, which also makes him a strong beginner's character.

Spacing and timing is most important to his general specials. Hammer Bro's projectile kit offers him a lot of tools to deal with almost any option the opponent presents, but his tools are specialized and tend to have large gaps in them. For example, his Up Special is powerful and a strong anti-air but if the opponent dashes in they will go right under it and get a free approach and varying the timing between Wooden and Metal Hammers is highly rewarding. The boomerang is stronger for grounded approaches, but it only covers aerial approaches on the return and so can be jumped over to aggress the Hammer Bro. Additionally, timing is key if you want it to return back a different way. And Neutral Special's up-and-down nature allows it to be stopped by one or the other's options depending on distance and situation. In that regard, the Hammer Bro's neutral can be said to be similar to the Belmonts as they want to toss out appropriate projectiles to blunt approaches or open up their own approaches while not becoming predictable which leads to being punished. To compare to the Belmonts, the Bros have less power in their projectiles (for example, nothing like Holy Water -> F-Smash kill confirms and less damage on their projectiles) in exchange for a much more robust melee game and folding less when pressured.

This makes an excellent segue to discuss the fourth brother, absent from the projectile segments of the set, the mystical Sledge Bro. The Sledge Bro's Down Aerial is a hardcore callout move, designed so shatter shields of opponents who get poked out by projectiles and to frighten opponents who play overly conservative and attempt to shield their way through everything. The Bro's melee game generally focuses on shorter combos, aerial reads and spacing the opponent out. Many of Hammer Bro's attacks have vertical knockback that increases the value of attacks to catch out landings or opponents with a trigger finger to air dodge projectiles such as Up Tilt and Up Aerial. Fittingly this also means that Hammer Bro enjoys using platforms much as in the home game, which allow him to jump up and follow opponents. His primary combo tools are Down Tilt and Neutral Aerial, but he additionally has a lot of chase moves (normal Down Throw, Jab) or delayed combo hitboxes (Fire Pummel Throw) in the mix, in addition to the fact that a lot of attacks can be combo'd out of his projectiles well enough.

When it comes to kills, Hammer Bro is reliant on a few options: projectile edgeguarding (which he is VERY well equipped to do), a strong spike with Forward Aerial, or will want to go for a more finesse-based play. All of Hammer Bro's Smash Attacks have a lot of potential power behind them, but are in some way risky or positioning based: Down Smash's pitfall sweetspot is very strong (any Mr. Game & Watch main will tell you this), but the sourspot is worthless aside from damage. His Up Smash has strong kill power and plays into his aerial game, but is reliant on a 1-frame and very specific sweetspot for kills. And while Forward Smash has less spacing dependancy while having the most power in Hammer Bro's set, it makes up for it with the most lag of his Smash Attacks combined with a very punishable duration that is absolutely brutal to whiff with. The final thing he can do, which is also rather finesse-y, is to use his Up Special hammer to send opponents flying off the top, being a way to finish off ladders

In short, these are the tools that test his spatial and situational awareness: His combos being projectile-reliant means he has to make snap decisions on if to go in for a combo (and risk being punished if it missed) or try to instead predict the opponent's dodge (which can be more rewarding but just as punishable), or to have the situational awarness to know when to go for Neutral Aerial/Down Tilt pressure against foes for his most general damaging building due to both of those tools weaknesses. Forward Tilt will therefor be used frequently as a more safe but not especially rewarding move alongside Back Aerial, forming the core of Hammer Bro's neutral until the player sees a good time to go in. Smash attacks are all about awareness of the opponent's position for sweetspots or timing: Forward Smash, for example, is an amazing tool if an opponent consistently rolls or air dodges after a projectile hit or when Hammer Bro goes in after a projectile because the duration is very strong at hitting opponents out of it and it will cover the starting lag. Finally, consider Dash Attack as an approaching mixup: There's no combo reward in store, but it is safe on shield when it can cross-up and has heavy armor to push through weak attacks, making it the power option in Hammer Bro's toolbelt if faster opponents or ones with strong cover, the Marios and Marths of the world, become too difficult to melee.

All of this has discussed Hammer Bro as a solo set. Let's discuss some general Friend Bro discourse. Using them for projectiles is fairly self-explanatory and has been gone over thoroughly enough, so instead here are some general thoughts on the purposes and uses of each Friend Bro:

Hammer Friend Bros tend to be the all-arounders, with a solid mix of speed, power and reach that makes them less specialized. Down Smash Friend Bro is one of the very scary options Hammer Bro can put out, as the potential to pitfall opponents entirely separate from his own lag allows a lot of options (one of the ways to land Forward Smash, for example). This is generally difficult, however. Forward Tilt is all about safety, being both the Friend Bros attack when under pressure and something that can be ordered to them for safety during the main Bro's camping. Up Aerial is all about walling the opponent off: If the Hammer Bro knows an Up Aerial is incoming, then they can toss out projectiles that don't cover the air while confident the Friend Bro will instead. Finally, Forward Aerial is the risky option to try and shove a Friend Bro on a ledge or moving platform and have them spike the foe offstage OR get spike combos (Friend Bro FAir -> Hammer Bro Up Smash for example), having very little usage outside of that but being valuable. In general, the Hammer Friend Bro is a solid default option with a very useful projectile to toss out (the only one with KO power) and a general variety of useful moves.


Boomerang Friend Bros are the most based on their projectiles: In addition to Side Special, all of their other choices in Down Tilt, Up Smash and Back Aerial are projectile based. This means that the Boomerang Friend Bro is almost entirely based on ranged spatial control and doesn't have too much variety. Down Tilt is a great combo starter tool but the very low to the ground hitbox makes it particularly easy to avoid among Friend Bro options (although this does mean Shield Poking). Back Aerial is pretty filler. Up Smash is interesting due to the fact that the hitbox is so opposite its normal Side Special. The Down Special's use might indicate that the Hammer Bro changed his Friend Bro's orders, but it doesn't say what to. This allows the Boomerang Friend Bro to be a bit of a 50/50, where an approach that beats out Up Smash may not beat out Side Special and vice versa. Using this makes approaching a Boomerang Friend Bro more tricky for the foe and so opponents commonly might instead prefer to only hit during the 3 second cooldowns or focus on Hammer Bro himself, both of which can be wins for him as they cede the stage or allow the Boomerang Friend Bro to toss out projectiles unimpeded. Note that the Boomerang Friend Bro's only move that cannot be reflected is Down Tilt, making it the riskiest to summon against foes with reflectors (although opponents constantly trying to reflect your minion can be punished by getting aggressive when they do).


Fire Friend Bros are the fastest option that the Friend Bros have, with Jab and Neutral Aerial in particular being some of the fastest attacks for the Bro while being more rewarding than, say, Boomerang Back Aerial. Neutral Aerial also is notable as the natural jumping arc of the Fire Friend Bro can drag opponents down for grounded combos and the weak air knockback is good to follow-up with, say, one's own Neutral Aerial or an Up Aerial instead. Jab is the most basic and quick tool for protection and if the opponent is at tech chase opponents can be very fun to exploit. Finally, Forward Smash is the all-or-nothing tool for Hammer Bro: If the Hammer Bro can combo into it or get an opponent in range to be pressured by it when it comes off, it is very powerful and can be a super early kill technique. But if the Hammer Bro is not in position to personally take advantage of it then it is otherwise borderline useless due to the extremely high starting lag and duration that largely leaves the Fire Bro open for long periods of time. Also note that the Fire Bro has the least range of the Friend Bros outside of its designated projectile, with only Forward Smash having meaningful disjoint. This makes it a lot more spacing specific!


Sledge Friend Bros are the beefcakes of the group, lacking a true projectile and instead being melee-focused. Dash Attack is of particular interest due to being one of the only Friend Bro options that allows a movement chase, it is great to prone a foe with attacks like Jab while a Dash Attack Friend Bro is nearby for example, and the ability to armor through weaker opponent attacks means it is an ideal option to have the Friend Bro break through opposing projectile assaults or weak spacers. Down Aerial not only has a platform-wide tripping hitbox, making it absolutely terrifying when on main platforms or stages like Final Destination, but allows the Hammer Bro to potentially combo into it for a shield break on enemy's shields! More likely opponents will be less likely to shield when a Sledge Friend Bro is nearby, but the potential to disguise a Friend Bro's options does mean this is a bit more difficult for the foe and that also means the opponent is either getting hit or using a more exploitable defensive tool. Finally, Up Tilt is a basic launcher and will section off that part of the stage for landings when it goes off, a simple but effective tool. The Sledge Friend Bro has the least attacks it can use in the Friend Bro arsenal, since no Friend Bros can use grabs, but they all serve some interesting and powerful niches. In general the Sledge Friend Bro will be most used when trying to use the Friend Bro aggressively rather than passively.


Overall, we have discussed the Hammer Bro's strengths, but let us discuss a few weaknesses. Some are obvious either from reading the set or the playstyle above, so I won't reiterate them much: Reflectors can blunt the Hammer Bro's overall gameplay (although they aren't really as bad as some people might think for sets like this), his lag is generally mediocre, his kill power is situational and he's somewhat read reliant. Two weaknesses worth discussing here are his recovery and his out of shield options. While Hammer Bro's OoS options are not the worst, it is worth noting that his Neutral Aerial is his fastest aerial at Frame 7 with Up Smash at Frame 9, largely leading to NAir as his out of shield option, while Up Special is essentially useless as such. Neutral Aerial's small hitbox means that good spacing out of shield can leave more attacks safe than normal. Up Smash has good horizontal range to help counteract that, but it only will hit with the weak sourspot that deals 14%, but at Frame 9 is getting on the slow side for some attacks. It isn't a terrible weakness, but some characters can exploit it well. His Jab is fast while his grab is a bit faster than average so he doesn't overly struggle there, but his mediocre starting lag does mean they tend to see a lot of predictable use.

When recovering, Hammer Bro's recovery is very Yoshi-esque with armor and a non-recovery Up Special that gives him a little boost. While the armor does help a lot, especially since Hammer Bro has more of it, it is nonetheless a highly exploitable recovery and the drawback of having less distance compared to Yoshi only compounds how vulnerable he can be to getting poked out of his second jump and in particular to being spiked because unlike Yoshi he doesn't have amazing, fast options to use while jumping. Mixing up Up Special's timing and recovering high/low is pretty vital to playing Hammer Bro, but opponents with strong spikes will always have some level of exploitability to him. Note that Down Aerial can snap to ledge like Bowser Bomb, so this can be a high recovery mixup to spike opponents coming below or just vary timing. Up Aerial can also be a nice counter tool (but the duration can be very risky with only one double jump) while Back Aerial if facing away from the ledge can be thrown out before a double jump for safety. Projectiles off stage are particularly tricky for Hammer Bro to deal with such as the Belmonts and, ironically, other Hammer Bros. It's an all out Bowser Civil War, I guess! Vary up your air dodges and Up Specials and read your opponent as best you can in those scenarios.
 
Last edited:

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
A hype contender from a dream team of two setmakers with similar tastes, it’s quite fun to get a FE mage who specifically draws inspiration from Robin. Using a “level up” mechanic where the tomes get stronger after being in cooldown is quite cool, leading to some potentially powerful and rewarding options if Nino gets that far. Jaffar adds extra set potential, and the way he’s implemented is interesting to me on a aesthetic note: making it so he can’t be attacked gives him a “powerful” feel to make how strong he is stated to be in canon, similar to Assist Trophies in Brawl back when they were all invincible.

This is one of those sets where the concepts and Specials aren’t mind-blowing or revolutionary, but as you’d expect from a Froy and Slavic joint it’s good and clean melee all the way with no glaring issues, and keen attention-to-detail. One aspect of this I enjoyed was Neutral Special’s Fire being stated to be a good neutral tool and getting worse in that aspect when the Fire Tome upgrades. Jaffar’s backstabbing mechanic is implemented very naturally and on the right inputs, between being an option from the counter, Up Smash, Forward Tilt against rolls and Back Air being the absolute perfect input to put a backstabbing mechanic on. You never force it onto inputs for the sake of it - the set does a fine job of juggling various mechanics neatly to stay consistently entertaining.

As for stand-out inputs I liked, Jab is a very cool way to take advantage of Nino’s 3 elements in one move - it reminds of how people said they enjoyed our Raikou’s take on Byleth’s multi-weapon mechanic. Another input is Forward Throw, again reminding of Raikou - I’ve actually always wanted to see someone do a “Throw Smash” where you can charge the move and unleash it even after the foe has escaped, and while it’s not there in this set (not that it would be too fitting) there’s always another chance. Oh, and Filbulvetr absolutely warrants a mention - I don’t think we’ve ever had a set actually that utilises “hitbox that constantly spins the foe around” given it’s hard to use, but this does a very fun job of making use of that!

Also, comparisons to Zelda who is my “main” in Smash Ultimate.

This set was a real blast to read - thank you both for this great contribution and character!

I remember you bringing this character before, anything for another Daisy character from you! This set oddly reminds me of Conern’s set back in MYM16, and was ironically for Anna herself. Daisy has a refreshingly easy-to-understand money mechanic (damage inflicted = gold), and the weapons she purchases are nice and on the simple side that’s very understandable for a Jamcon set.

I’m certainly not opposed to the status effects being RNG-based when Daisy hits. I actually think it would be cool mechanic if you could play off foes letting their guard down when the RNG does occur (Green Missile misfire, for instance) or scaring foes into raising their guard up in case the RNG effect does occur. Say you have a buff where your moves have a one-in-five chance of triggering a time bomb that goes off 1.5 seconds after the foe recovers. Just talking to myself here in Ideas Mode, partly in case anyone else is reading this comment.

The RNG effects are implemented nicely here, not allowing Daisy to stun opponents in the air - what if hitting the opponent in midair slightly increased the chances of applying that sword’s effect, relative to the number of hits you got on them before they landed? Maybe one hit = the effect’s chance being one number lower, so if you hit the foe 5 times before they land your Silence Sword has a 1/7 chance of stunning the foe within a certain amount of time. That would make these swords more relevant in aerial combat, especially from the very, VERY cool and unique Pursuit attack - had this set more time, I could see the swords having greater variety in their status effects and serving as a stronger base that could easily be on par with Quackfaster. I particularly like Pursuit’s synergy with Daisy’s various multi-hit moves!

The Down Special shop acting as a counter -true to Fire Emblem sets - and allowing Daisy to steal a weapon for free is a particularly fun touch! I really like the characterisation on display here.

Down Tilt is simple, but a particularly great choice to work in with the Specials - it feels like a more extreme version of some Smash characters’ Down Tilts having a chance to trip, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard of shield-shifting (hold B while shielding to tilt your shield in any direction) being brought up in a moveset. I also like how Pursuit works with Up Tilt in making it easier to land the spiking tipper. And Dash Attack + Pursuit working well with the landing follow-up, using Pursuit to drop yourself from farther up. Also, summoning a shop to buy stuff from after throwing your opponent is wacky, in a fun way. You seem to be setting a trend for grab games that summon groups of people or a location. What next, a grab game that summons all the Daisy characters you’ve made sets for?

All and all, Daisy was a pleasantly and surprisingly good read! Stronger than Rockerduck and even MYM24 Daisy in my books, smack in-between Quaxly and Quackfaster in quality. I just really, really liked Pursuit as a move that much. I feel like she has the potential to be an even better set, but whether you just want to focus on improving Quackfaster or make more sets is up to you.

Great to have another FAte set! I’ve heard that the Valkyries are experimental for you, more tame than your usual fare, and trying to keep them shorter than usual. Personally, I find it refreshing that you’re willing to do these more simple sets, even though you said you only work on sets if you feel their ideas are strong enough.

Pyra and Mythra’s switching mechanic is something I’m sure MYM has found potent, and here that takes the form of letting you input moves during a window to summon another Valkyrie and have them use it. It’s neat with Neutral Special and Up Special, and makes sense if the attacks are a bit undertuned to balance around this. Funny enough, it reminds me of the Assist mechanic in the Marvel VS Capcom series, if it was built into a character’s moveset and you could specifically customize which moves you could use on the fly. Even compare the 3 Valkyrie moves to Custom moves in Smash 4.

I like the touch of Ortlinde being the statistically worst and not necessarily best attacker of the Valks, but having added effects on some attacks and a lore-based justification for it! Even if the set isn’t mega-ambitious “seamlessly switch between multiple movesets for unique combos” Aki-style control scheme, it’s fun to explore the different dynamics of each Valkyrie, like Hildr’s Down Air randomly being a spike that plays into her high-risk aggression, or Ortlinde’s Dash Attack having the back step that can mess with foes who were used to expecting Hildr or Thrud’s attacks. Or Ortlinde’s Neutral Air sweetspot or Hildr’s very different Forward Air. It’s all I’d ask for in a more melee-based Pyra/Mythra set, and it definitely adds spice to the set. I also like Up Throw and its application with Assist Valkyries, the grab designed so the foe can still react to their attack, and just the fun flavour behind the move’s naming and writing. But the real highlight in the grab game was Down Throw, with various time bombs that work better with other Valkyries and incentivizes switching out. Not being able to switch Valkyrie while you’re grabbing your opponent was a smart choice, in this sense.

You wanted thoughts on the writing, so I’ll give them here. I’d say it was largely successful! Don’t think you were missing out on much by not going into further detail - you have all you need with attack details and various applications. If anything, it could be hard to process the full implications of an attack when the data and applications of each Valkyrie attack was thrown together all at once or in quick succession, but that issue feels exclusive to this set with its 3-in-1 rather than your writing style.

All and all, Valkyrie feels like a “solid” set comparable to something like Alolan Marowak, doing well with what it has to work with in the time. Nice work, and thanks for giving us this character!

Welcome back, Peanut! What a pleasant surprise, getting an entry from you. This particular variant of Ekko has two neat mechanics: Firelight feels for OG Ekko’s aesthetic of rewinding time, and feels fitting for what I assume is a gang-based character as Ekko’s cohorts follow his head. Funny how we got 2 Jamcon sets that can leave a fighter behind to copy your attacks back-to-back, this and Valkyrie. And Firelight Mark is a neat effect that, should Ekko fulfill the requirements, turns him into a mean combo character for 3 seconds. It’s referenced in the set too, getting some notable use out of Up Tilt.

Down Special is a fun space-resetter that works in with the Firelight trail Ekko can set, balanced by cooldown and potentially losing it until he’s KO’ed if he has no allies to back him up. Up Special is a fun recovery with a lot of options, and works particularly great with the Down Special combo! As a minor note, Ekko should have access to some form of recovery while the hoverboard is in cooldown - maybe he only gets to dash once, and can’t cancel it into anything? I like its implementation in Ekko’s grab game as a risky “extreme cargo carry” where his hoverboard goes into cooldown after using it, and the nerf to his throw knockback from it.

Also, Ekko’s Final Smash reminds me of some old MYM stuff. Talk about a blast from the past!

Ekko is a set with a strong base and potential, one that could greatly benefit with polish from modern MYM’s more intricate melee and tying Ekko’s mechanics and Specials into that. For instance, talking about what Ekko could do against who are hit by or react against his Firelights’ mimicked attacks. But this is your first set in a long time and is nonetheless a great one for your return! I know you’ve been around in the chat, but not seen you much in the moveset threads - would love it if you got more involved in setmaking side of things if you could afford to, you were a real wonder around the MYM11-12 era and we all remember Zexion fondly.

With all Jamcon sets finished, I'm proud to say my nomination goes to Venom Strange! It was a fantastic Jamcon this time around, one with multiple sets that absolutely deserve to win. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out!
 
Last edited:

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,528
Meltryllis by GolisoPower GolisoPower and Arctic Tern Arctic Tern
The commitment to copying enemies' mechanics is impressive. I'll admit I skimmed some of the particulars in places where they got long - not your fault at all, but it's a lot to hold in mind when I don't really understand Kazuya or Cloud or Ken or.... look, I need to play this game more. I really dug how thoroughly the idea was explored, anyhow. Following through on the premise with specific examples sells the cool factor of it - it's the sort of mechanic that needs to be flashy to feel compelling as a centerpiece, and the over-the-top specificity you've brought gives it exactly the oomph it needs. Kudos on that.

I do wish the universal stat buffs she can get were brought back around a bit more? Feels a bit silly to complain about the set not exploring NSpec enough, but since those sorts of buffs are relevant against large swaths of characters, they feel worth lending a little more real estate than what they get. Seems like ol' Melty would be a great candidate for bringing back match-ups, the scariest form of extra. It'd be cool to get some thoughts on how the hijacked mechanics and specific stat buffs impact specific match-ups. I imagine she'd demand a lot of match-up knowledge to play.

Anyway, it's impressive that this set manages such a polished melee game that the more out-there copying stuff is playing off of - she has a strong identity as a fighter and a clearly-defined playstyle, and the mimicry is balanced really cleverly against that. It's a very pragmatic approach and keeps her character in focus. I was surprised you guys knocked out something this ambitious so quickly, and even more surprised it's so solid after coming together so quickly. Nice work!

Stray thoughts:
  • A microscopic nit to pick, but you're not getting great bang for your buck on the intro right now. A lot of it is pretty inscrutable to an outsider.
  • It'd be nice if some of the "x number increased to y" type buffs in NSpec were contextualized with the prior numbers so I didn't have to jump back if I wanted to see how much of a buff it was. (I confess to not memorizing her traction stat)
  • Ohhhh, really like the stacking buff from DSpec.
  • Heh, funny that the actual 'attack' bit of FSpec's gif is obscured by that flashy effect. Not a hard description to parse anyway.
  • "Unfortunately, Melt takes enough time to raise her leg up that it makes Jab 2 not combo on hit" I bet the tip screens give her guff about it, too.
  • This character is gross.
  • "As Meltryllis is a sadist, it would make sense for her to have this kind of throw." - fear. (The grab is cool though, yeah)
  • "Behold the power of two foot blades!" - one of my favorite cheers at a hockey game.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
2,172
Location
The long road to nowhere
3DS FC
3523-2059-7939
My first MYMset in 6 years. 6 years to study. 6 years to improve. Surely, I have to make my big comeback impression with the most extravagant, masterful, hype-inducing character concept possible.

"Gee, Turtles, what Pokémon/character from a dead Sega IP are you going to wow us with this time?" you sarcastically ask.

 

Torgo the Bear

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
1,176
Location
Grinding for Maushold Family of Three
NNID
u2outofcontrol
Switch FC
SW-1209-7008-3905
Meltryllis
GolisoPower GolisoPower Arctic Tern Arctic Tern

1648698242728.png

Starting off the JamCon with a bang! I absolutely enjoyed this one, primarily because it dove into a concept I've always been curious about implementing: gimmick copying. I loved all the ways you mixed in the different gimmicks, and how so many of them seemed to flow very well with Melt's playstyle. Even going so far as to make an entire section just dedicated to Kazuya's special inputs was a really fun touch!

Melt feels like a character I think I might like, to be honest. While my main is definitely the big bad Kremling, I feel like playing as someone this lightweight sounds pretty fun, and I was definitely on board with her playstyle. The Sadistic Nature was a really interesting mechanic, and I feel like it would make for some exciting matches.

While most of my enjoyment did come from seeing how everything flowed with the stolen gimmicks, this is not to say the rest of the moves weren't enjoyable. I liked her Smashes, and this was a set where I actually liked the aerials for once...although I think that's because I could visualize the usefulness behind them in this set, which means you did a good job there.

Overall, this one was pretty good! Very excited to see what else this JamCon has to offer!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
What a pleasant surprise, Jay/Turtles! You chose the right time to return to MYM, as we’re in something of a golden age right now. Fascinating to hear you’ve still been making sets. Slippy definitely feels like a set designed as how you’d want to play as him in Smash, and has a lot of love put into a little frog some people seem to hate. Your more simplistic set philosophy of making sets for Smash will definitely find purchase among our readers, like bubbyboytoo. Even as someone who doesn’t make sets under that philosophy (I don’t/can’t play Smash right now), I enjoy seeing sets made from that perspective.

From what I gather, Slippy is a take on a “polarizing fighter”, with one part of his set being very effective and the other being intentionally weak to compensate, not unlike Little Mac. I think you pulled this off well! Slippy’s Aerials and melee game are mostly weak for him when he can set up quite a few constructs, as many as 3 simple minions and 2 turrets that can sponge up enemy projectiles if he’s given free reign (that surely makes up for Slippy not having a traditional Star Fox reflector!). He can also disable enemy shields, which would normally be quite powerful but I think it’s balanced here due to his bad melee (some of his attacks don’t have a lot of range, wouldn’t be hard for opponents to just attack him) and works well with his fun Forward Smash and Down Throw! I was also pleasantly surprised that you mentioned %-based follow-ups and tech-chase options in Slippy’s Forward Throw, both help to add melee spice to his game.

Extras are worth mentioning here. Love the Up Special line and Aerials image referencing Slippy’s aerial incompetence, and his clumsy take on his more familiar allies’ attacks. And his Final Smash just displaying his piloting incompetence. It’s fun to see win and lose dialogue against the other Star Fox Smash characters, or just MYM characters in general. And last but not least is the Echo Fighter extra for Peppy Hare - we haven’t gotten many of these yet! I really like the detail that went behind this, right down to having his own extras and a Classic Mode.

Between Hollow Knight, Firelight Ekko and Slippy, the number of great return sets we’ve gotten from veterans this contest is surprising. Sure, you’ve still been making sets outside of MYM, but still. Slippy is a short but solid set by MYM standards, with something of a trap/minion playstyle that’s hard not to enjoy. Forward Throw’s gameplay applications make me think this isn’t your ceiling, and wonder what else you have to offer - you had some fun and ambitious characters and ideas in the past after all, like Chus-Chus, Zoboomafoo and Vyse who I remember Froy absolutely adored back in MYM14. Good work on Slippy, Jay!
 
Top Bottom