Majora's Mask Mafia | Game Over!

[Sir Bedevere]

Why would I clear Dan as town on the first Day, as scum? You played with me as scum in Halo AND Bioware; you know my interactions with my mafia scummates is limited and that I never really plan things. You haven't even explained why my "case" on him D1 is faulty. Hell, I couldn't have even PLANNED DAnGR to do what I said cleared him in my "case"; I only replaced in a lot later on than when Dan started acting different toward Vocal.

 

[X1-12]

loludidn'tplayinhalo


I don't even remember you playing in bioware either? were you a hydra?

 

[adumbrodeus]

He replaced out in bioware.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

I was my own playerslot. I replaced out at the end of D1.

here's the post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11344403&postcount=329

 

[X1-12]

11 posts then replace out..

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Disprove the logic in that post, X1 or adum. :/

You've both been avoiding explaining why the people I think are town AREN'T town and why the people I think aren't town ARE town.

I couldn't have come to the conclusion that FF/adum are scum without first coming to the conclusion that Dan/X1 are town.

 

[X1-12]

Sir B, even if by some miracle you are town, you are playing the by far scummiest game. I have little else to say on this whole thing, you are clutching at straws

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Wtf X1?

At least humour me with an explanation as to why my post explaining Dan's townieness fails.

I don't care if you think my game is scummy, all I care about is you explaining why you think the things you do so I can explain how they're wrong, and you do to the same to mine.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It was townie, but one townie-looking suspicion is not enough to make somebody obvious-town-forever, scum can do actions that seem townie, but scum always make mistakes if you're strong enough to force them to make them.


Add to the fact that in this game mafia could have a reasonable escalation of suspicions prior to OS' lynch (because even if we didn't have it confirmed that we had an indy at that point, there certainly was the possibility, and even if dangr didn't consider it, I'm sure his scumbuddy would've) and it's just not convincing compared to his later scummieness.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

It was townie, but one townie-looking suspicion is not enough to make somebody obvious-town-forever, scum can do actions that seem townie, but scum always make mistakes if you're strong enough to force them to make them.


Add to the fact that in this game mafia could have a reasonable escalation of suspicions prior to OS' lynch (because even if we didn't have it confirmed that we had an indy at that point, there certainly was the possibility, and even if dangr didn't consider it, I'm sure his scumbuddy would've) and it's just not convincing compared to his later scummieness.

Except his later scumminess is non-existent. >_>

This post and the back and forth it sparked, why would dangr misrepresent this as saying I meant pro-town when I obviously was agreeing with swiss about his ability and and furthermore he somehow didn't draw the same conclusion from Swiss using the same term on him?

If you're going to use this as a point, then my point against you ignoring Roxy is legit, because they both stem from the fact that a player missed something the first time they looked at something; DanGR with respect to Swiss' posts, and you with respect to Roxy.

Combined with how odd a doc and a jailkeeper is in the same game.

Stop metaing the mod.

Saying "X doesn't make sense about the setup" and then making decisions entirely based on that can lead to disasters.

Combined with Dr.Mizumi not being in the game in the first place.

He is, under a different name.

Combined with the fakeclaiming in lylo.

What would you have done in that situation, if you were a person who:

-didn't know it was lylo/what lylo is
-overvalued his role in lylo (and didn't even know it was lylo in the first place)

I'm not that great at mafia (definitely not this game), but I, at the least, would know NOT to allow my scumpartner to fakeclaim doc and then NOT attempt to bus them. Dan's claim is so ridiculous I can't see how he isn't town.

X1, adum has switched off my wagon with no explanation and has put a vote on dangr with even less reasoning than he has for voting me. There is 100% CONFIRMED SCUM BETWEEN US; there is NO reason adum shouldn't be voting for me when it would be entirely possible my scummate is you (X1) or FF and he just risked the game for nothing. That does NOT fit in with adum's safe style of play. Does adum's last-minute vote of OS matchup with his immediate vote on Dangr as soon as you put his vote on him and as soon as it became apparent that a vote had been placed on someone who wasn't scum?

adum is either waiting on FF to come in and hammer and has voted in a way that would allow them to do so immediately, or counting on a NL to occur, because he knows if I put my vote down on dangr, which, at this point, may be the only new vote that can be placed (deadline in an hour), the game's over and he wins.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

oh, misread, only voted after you said you wouldn't vote me

still, this is the 2nd time adum has allowed someone less scummy than his original target to be the lynch, and he did it with almost no resistance

 

[DanGR]

X1, Sir Bed not voting for me when I'm at L-1 CONFIRMS HE'S NOT MAFIA, WHICH CONFIRMS ADUMB IS MAFIA. PLEASE.

 

[DanGR]

Vote: Adumbrodeus

 

[DanGR]

Oh my god don't throw this away.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Well, it confirms either that we're both town and adum's mafia, or some combination of you and X1 or adum or me is scum, lol.

X1, me and Dan are sort of putting both ourselves out there. If you lynch either of us, the other one is very likely dead the next day. It's entirely WIFOM, but you have to consider how terrible we're doing if we're mafia and are both defending each other in such a way that if one flips, the other is screwed. I know enough about mafia that I wouldn't allow my scumbuddy to make all these connections to me, and that I would give them a plan for toMorrow to win, and not toDay. There's more to this game if we kill adum; there isn't if we kill Dangr.

at the very least, unvote and consider your options

 

[Sir Bedevere]

dan calm down lol

ate won't get you that far

 

[X1-12]

Its called deadline in 2 hours and a lynch being needed or instant lose.

Sir B: you could easily be scum with Dan and trying to stall out for the win, there's so many things your saying that are either WIFOM, untrue or do not take into account all possibilities

DEADLINE IS IN 45 MINUTES

Vote Dan.

If you two are scum and stall out ftw I will be so ****ing angry

 

[adumbrodeus]

Stop it sir bed, when I voted it was obvious you two were the scumteam especially given your insane protectiveness and apoligizing for him, and no it's essentially confirmed because otherwise you would vote him.


As far as the "no resistance", given that x1 said he was gonna leave 7 minutes after I said I was willing to (and thus we wouldn't be able to really debate it), I had to chose between no lynch and lynch dangr, a person I was incredibly suspicious of anyway. NL vs. lynch almost definitely catching scum, easy choice no?



As far as what I would do, I wouldn't lie in a massclaim unless only scum would be able to tell that I'm lying or my role was reactive and could beat the final scum (ex. supersaint, vengeful towny, bomb) thus was pointless to claim (and in that case, only if in lylo). I would never lie about a confirmable role like a doc, or something that gave information like a cop, though your case was arguable.



As far as "stop metaing the mod", NA analysis and figuring out what a balanced game would be and role roles are possible are an incredibly important part of how you win closed games. EE did it to win Bioware, Glork did it to beat me in SE mafia, frankly it's an important part of town play for EVERY CLOSED GAME. It's not about mod meta, it's figuring out what's balanced.

I also like the fact that you were doing it earlier, which is why I brought up the fact that 2-1-9 games are extremely pro-town by their nature, and nerfs to town (like the jailkeeper only really being able to stop town roles) is standard for a balanced setup. Yet, when x1 and I do it, you're saying "stop metaing the mod".

Obviously the argument is ok when it works in your favor, but once the conclusions disagree with you, it's a bad argument.

 

[X1-12]

If you lynch dan and he's scum I will vote adum in my first post of D7

Even if you think Dan is town its better to lynch him than to NL. NL is instant lose

 

[DanGR]

Oh god, I was wrong. It only confirms to me that Sir Bed is town and nothing else, which means Adumb and FF are mafia, but you already know this, Sir Bed. >.>


X1 the whole thing about the flavor is just dumb.

There will not be any characters used from any other Zelda game that do not also appear in Majora's Mask.

Key word being "also." So Hilt's saying he can use characters from other games as long as they also appear in Majora's Mask. Well according to you Dr. Mizumi also appears in MM right?

Are you really going to base your vote around on flavor?
And is Adumbrodeus actually going to vote for me when, if he was town, he knows 100% that Sir Bed is scum? How does that make sense? He's voting for me so when FF gets here THEY WIN.

If you're going to be around longer please take off your vote at least until you have to go...

 

[X1-12]

My vote stays for the next 39 minutes

i.e the rest of the game

 

[adumbrodeus]

Dangr, if it's you or no lynch, I'll take you.



Also, he didn't appear in MM, that was a person who used the same character model, the professor.

 

[DanGR]

Stop it sir bed, when I voted it was obvious you two were the scumteam especially given your insane protectiveness and apoligizing for him, and no it's essentially confirmed because otherwise you would vote him.

Lmao if he's town he knows you're mafia, which means there's no reason to kill me over you. That + with his read on me, it makes no sense that he'd vote me. On the other hand, you're hopping on X1's wagon with nothing but a flavor argument.

 

[DanGR]

What happens if FF doesn't get here to lynch me?

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Stop it sir bed, when I voted it was obvious you two were the scumteam especially given your insane protectiveness and apoligizing for him, and no it's essentially confirmed because otherwise you would vote him.

so i massively buddied up to my own scummate day 1 about things I wasn't even in control of, let him fakeclaim doc when there would have been absolutely no reason for him not to (after I JUST revealed my own fakeclaim and got flak for it), and then allowed him to defend me so hardcore right before deadline when just pushing for my lycnh or just staying out of teh thread would have let him survive

ok

As far as the "no resistance", given that x1 said he was gonna leave 7 minutes after I said I was willing to (and thus we wouldn't be able to really debate it), I had to chose between no lynch and lynch dangr, a person I was incredibly suspicious of anyway. NL vs. lynch almost definitely catching scum, easy choice no?

If you're town, I'm scum.

You don't ahve the same guarantee with DangR.

Why risk it? You're not playing to your meta.

As far as what I would do, I wouldn't lie in a massclaim unless only scum would be able to tell that I'm lying or my role was reactive and could beat the final scum (ex. supersaint, vengeful towny, bomb) thus was pointless to claim (and in that case, only if in lylo). I would never lie about a confirmable role like a doc, or something that gave information like a cop, though your case was arguable.

This is DanGR's second game, first lylo.

There are a PLETHORA of reasons he hid his role because of that.

As far as "stop metaing the mod", NA analysis and figuring out what a balanced game would be and role roles are possible are an incredibly important part of how you win closed games. EE did it to win Bioware, Glork did it to beat me in SE mafia, frankly it's an important part of town play for EVERY CLOSED GAME. It's not about mod meta, it's figuring out what's balanced.

We don't know the scum roles. Jailer could be important to RBing scum PRs.

It doesn't even matter. That's such an insignificant part of DanGR's case when everything else makes sense for him being town.

I also like the fact that you were doing it earlier, which is why I brought up the fact that 2-1-9 games are extremely pro-town by their nature, and nerfs to town (like the jailkeeper only really being able to stop town roles) is standard for a balanced setup. Yet, when x1 and I do it, you're saying "stop metaing the mod".

Obviously the argument is ok when it works in your favor, but once the conclusions disagree with you, it's a bad argument.

it's a bad argument because the rest of your argument is faulty.

mod meta is just like regular meta; it's fluff, not the case

@Dan, i'll be voting you 5 min before deadline if I cant convicne x1 to stop being dumb. it's the only thing I can do

x1, stop tunneling your idea without giving justification

explain why dan isn't town

 

[X1-12]

then scum luck out


You should be voting sir B, and sir B should be voting you. No other lynches will occur toDay

 

[Sir Bedevere]

X1.

Explain why Dangr isn't town.

 

[X1-12]

I have no interest in spamming walls of posts I've made my points in a concise manner. You have tried to defend against them but the counter-points have not convinced me.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

then counter the counter points

how the **** am I supposed to convicne you you're wrong if you don't give me anything to work with?

 

[DanGR]

Okay, I thought saying this would definitely mean you guys vote for me.


But at this point this is a last resort.

I'm gorman, not that role I made up. Lied because I had no reads on anyone and wanted to get night killed. Figured there was no risk and everyone would believe me because there'd be no reason for mafia to do it, and I was pretty understood to be town at that point. Win, win, right? Well, no I was dumb. Not cut out for this game I guess. Is that possible? Would that make sense to you X1?

 

[DanGR]

Sorry I ruined this game, guys.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

woah wtf

um

lol

guess now even the mod meta fails? >_>

that was really bad dangr

 

[DanGR]

Yeah I know. Sorry.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Lmao if he's town he knows you're mafia, which means there's no reason to kill me over you. That + with his read on me, it makes no sense that he'd vote me. On the other hand, you're hopping on X1's wagon with nothing but a flavor argument.

Just a flavor argument?

Obviously you missed this:

Reviewing, there was one exchange that was really off:




This post and the back and forth it sparked, why would dangr misrepresent this as saying I meant pro-town when I obviously was agreeing with swiss about his ability and and furthermore he somehow didn't draw the same conclusion from Swiss using the same term on him?

And why would he further pressure me on the same point even after I clarified that his interpretation was wrong?


(on second glance, misread what swiss was asking myself, I'm a ******* obviously).



Combined with how odd a doc and a jailkeeper is in the same game.

Combined with Dr.Mizumi not being in the game in the first place.

Combined with the fakeclaiming in lylo.


Ok, still happier with the guaranteed scum in sir bed, but I'd be comfortable lynching dangr, he's the lynch toMorrow anyway if not toDay


@x-1: I know you said you'd be on til about two and a half hours before the deadline, almost there. Could you switch your vote to sir bed? If you can't, then I'd be willing to lynch dangr today.




FF where you at? Deadline soon.

Plus how I pointed out how protective bed was being of you.

If you lynch dan and he's scum I will vote adum in my first post of D7

Why? At this point, scum will bus. Gah, don't lynch scum today to throw it away in second lylo.

 

[X1-12]

AARAAARGHGHGHT@ DanGR: This is just making me think that its not something that scum would do but I refuse to drink that wine, especially this close to deadline

 

[X1-12]

Why? At this point, scum will bus. Gah, don't lynch scum today to throw it away in second lylo.

lol, I was lying so he would vote Dan

 

[Sir Bedevere]

X1, seriously, COUNTER MY POST

You've given NO justification for why you think Dan is town in light of all my arguments against yours.

When this game is over, I'm going to be railing on you SO hard for not doing the townie thing and EXPLAINING YOUR READS.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

isn't town*

 

[DanGR]

lol, I was lying so he would vote Dan

omg town lied must mean scum

Vote: X1



jk
Unvote Vote: Adumbrodeus

 

[Sir Bedevere]

^lol

i better revote adum just to amke sure it counts

Vote: adumbrodeus