Majora's Mask Mafia | Game Over!

[Swiss]

@ Adum - I only skimmed, but thought you were scummy final day. I read little of anything else in the game which no doubt would have worked in your favour. This is not confirmation bias.

Who knows, you might join the Gold dice club.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I disagree, maybe you intended it as distancing, I fully intended to kill you at several points if the wagon would actually take off (which obviously never happened, but I told you this) and if you look at his "bumping elbows" I did the exact same things with everyone else in the game, most of which I did more.

So again, correct result, but the reasoning behind it makes me believe he was just making it up as he went along using confirmation bias to interpret everything in the most scummy way.

@ Adum - I only skimmed, but thought you were scummy final day. I read little of anything else in the game which no doubt would have worked in your favour. This is not confirmation bias.

Who knows, you might join the Gold dice club.

Did you know the roles at that point?

Regardless, then I can see it, skimming would've worked against me a lot because I took down his case by destroying a ton of minor points that made it not add up, if you didn't read closely you wouldn't notice that there wasn't really much of a case.

 

[Swiss]

I knew no roles.

It was your "**** **** **** where is FF?" post and the ones surrounding it that made me point the finger more than anything.

Skimming would have meant I saw none of your subtleties, agreed.


Also, thanks to scum for NK'ing me - that re-read would have been a *****.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ok, now I totally don't see how you could've thought that was scummy.


We were almost at the deadline, with 2 pretty much confirmed scum and we needed the last townie to lynch, why in god's name would I not be annoyed if he wasn't around as town? If he didn't appear, we got a NL.


If I did that earlier on in the day then I'd agree it was scummy. But when town was looking at an auto-lose without him, it meant nothing.




Also, you're welcome.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I chuckled at "Blue Blomber" in the endgame post. XD

oops lol

@ Hilt: Could OS be roleblocked or was he immune to that as well?

Yeah, he could be role blocked by either you or the Jail Keeper.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ouch, so my NA analysis was wrong?

Goddammit.

 

[Swiss]

Ok, now I totally don't see how you could've thought that was scummy.


We were almost at the deadline, with 2 pretty much confirmed scum and we needed the last townie to lynch, why in god's name would I not be annoyed if he wasn't around as town? If he didn't appear, we got a NL.


If I did that earlier on in the day then I'd agree it was scummy. But when town was looking at an auto-lose without him, it meant nothing.




Also, you're welcome.

You AtE'd loltown like a champ. Reeked.

Depends on how you scum hunt, though.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Where?

I'm completely serious, I never intended to AtE and I didn't post anything that even remotely suggested an AtE to my mind.

 

[Swiss]

f*** f*** f*** where is frozenflame?

lol adum faking being worried

If he doesn't, we're completely dependent on frozenflame anyway, god, losing because FF couldn't get on in time for the deadline would suck so hard.

I took that meaning you were scum.

Selective reading? Very. Had I been in the game, not so much of a tell.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Fair enough, still I had legit reasons to be worried, my concern was that x1 would shift his vote to make sure a lynch happened and I'd get screwed even if I hadn't forgot that I was actually scum at that point.



Also, gold dice would be a pro birthday gift.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I am completely serious btw, I totally forgot that I was mafia in this game, I had a conversation with xivii going where he asked me my role and I said I was VT and after a long pause I was like "I think" and double-check my rolepm. I honestly completely forgot I was mafia.

Not knowing you're mafia is quickly becoming a good way to win around here.

Fun game. I replaced into quite an odd situation, Dastrn having claimed a role but saying "well no, it's a weak role" when it was actually the strongest one town had. N1 Dastrn jailed Vocal, and N2 Swiss -- or vice versa idk. Which meant that Vocal couldn't be abductor, but I was considering Vocal/OS as a possible scum team at that point so I went ahead on the Vocal lynch anyway.

The night after the Vocal lynch, I jailed FF because naturally I thought Pierre had been abductor like everyone else had.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

If I had more experience I'm sure I could have nailed you guys. I knew you were scum on both "know who was town" and "know who was scum" fronts, I just didn't know how to prove it and convince others. /johns

I'm still proud I had all 3 scum pinned D2. <.>

I wish the game had ended here and I didn't say all that other stuff. D:

My first loss as town.

...but at the very least, I'm keeping my "never lynched" record alive. Thanks for taking one for the team, DanGR.

again, gg scum

---

shoutin' out

Sir Bedevere - Bro you got dem scummers you just gotta get em DEAD. D:

Swiss - Maaan gotta play to your gut, we BOTH woulda got dat abductor fella outta this game had we really pushed for it. D: You played a fine town game and, aside from the connections I saw between you and OS that made me think you were scummy (which fell apart as soon as OS flipped abductor obv), I had you on my town list for most of the game.

Roxy - Hehe, sometimes you play scummy as town and get lynched. :> The idea behind what you were doing was solid, but make you sure you actually do useful things or you'll just get lynched.

Vocal - Lol man I think I had the most fun with this game when you were around and stirring things up. :D As others said in-game, you need to be more focused on your targets, you need to focus on what's most important, and you need to read people's intent, but otherwise you did fine for your second game. Reading back, I'm actually not sure why I lynched you D3 (FF's case on you was not AS solid as I think I thought it was back then); I just think we didn't have much time to get other lynches and you weren't really contributing.

BSL - Maybe next time you'll be able to play? XP

Dastrn/Nabe - @thefirsthalf: You didn't do too much this game, but that was understandable considering your conditions. :< Semi-claiming your role D1 was REALLY weird and could have got you lynched if you were playing with different people (did you actually not understand how good your role was, btw, or were you just WIFOMing it up?).
@thesecondhalf: You didn't get to do much, but (like X1) I got an immediate townie vibe from you and I liked the things you did. Look forward to playing with you more.

DanGR - DanGR my bro. D: You were gone for almost the entire game and came back only to get lynched. You really shouldn't have been the lynch in the first place considering how few connections you had made to people compared to everyone else, but a combination of X1's tunneling and you fakeclaiming forced that out anyways. Fakeclaiming there was definitely wrong, and your reads were off in a few places, but you applied great pressure on people (picking out adum's elbow rubbing with Pierre early in the game only made me more convinced you were town) and I think, had you not been abducted N1, we would have had a better chance of unearthing the scumteam. I hope you decide to play more games here and develop your play.

X1 - You can't tunnel like that man. It's one thing to develop reads, give justified explanations for those reads, and act on them; it's another to make reads and just act on them without considering why you could be wrong, especially when those actions determine the entire outcome of the game. You did quite well as town for the rest of the game and I often found myself agreeing with many of the reads you made (which was part of why I thought you were town), but when it came to this last read we disagreed on that would change the game and I gave my reasons for my read, I don't think you really gave reasons (if any reasons at all) that could justify your end, and if you do things like this in other games, I'm really going to consider whether I should bring you into lylo or not. I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but I don't want to lose games because a person is tunneling something that I'm sure is wrong and won't explain why he thinks what he thinks.

OS - lolu You played a great game as abductor and even had me convinced you were mafia partly due to meta, as, I think, was part of your plan...but then you claimed mafia. D: If you really did just want to screw around and make it harder on yourself, then OK, but I really feel like you could have had this game in the bag had you fakeclaimed VT and just pushed my lynch from there, because a LARGE part of my case on you was the ridiculousness of you claiming mafia. If you had actually tried your best to win, you would have gotten MVP for sure.

Pierre/FF - @thefirsthalf: Where u at. :< Was looking forward to playing with you.
@thesecondhalf: Replacing in so late and having timezone johns really let you slide around on the inactivity scale without being noticed, but you made a convincing enough case on Vocal to get him lynched and backed off appropriately when I claimed (for reasons I obviously didn't know at the time XP) that for the most part you were only leaning one way or the other
from null. I'm not sure if I should have pushed you or adum in lylo since it might have looked weird for me to be pushing lynches on an inactive, and I'm not sure if adum would have defended you like he defended himself. Gratz on win.

adum - As I said, we can't be friends anymore. :< You played a strong town game that gave you the edge when it came time for town to decide who to trust and I legitimately was getting town vibes from the things you were saying even as I pushed you, which made it even harder for me to make points against you. I really felt like there was something between you and FF (it wasn't just mentioning his name, it was putting pressure and suspicion on him when there were other players like Roxy who you completely ignored when they were doing almost the exact same things), and if there was any way I could have gotten your lynch aside from pushing that angle that didn't involve me going back in time and fixing all the mistakes I made, I never would have seen it. I WANT to say I deserve MVP for making crazy good reads (I was totally on the ball this game when it came to that, aside from abductor lylo ), making really good (lucky) fakeclaims that let town survive another day, and ALMOST knocking out the entire mafia scumteam at the end of D2 (like I would have loled so hard if that had happened, damm you FF XD), but I would be lying if I said adum hadn't been playing a much better game than me and deserves MVP more than I do.

Besides, red dice are way too sexy.

Hilt - Awesome flavourful game from my favouritest game ever. :D I would have loved to see the Skull Kid or even the moon (who abducts people by sucking them into his mouth using its gravitational pull and OM NOMing them :D) but for a game that wasn't bursting with PRs (I prefer those types of games, personally), the great flavour behind each character helped bring it up, and an abductor made the game even more interesting. Cool setup, would play another game by you again!

 

[adumbrodeus]

Oh, I totally forgot about roxy.

I would've pushed for her at the same time if I had been conscious of the fact that she was being inactive when I made the post. I do legitimately miss things both as town and scum, and since I already said I was gonna keep my eye on pierre so that wasn't a tell at all.


Also, that depends on how the day developed, there was a lot more material on FF then on me, you could've made a legit case and if you hadn't responded so badly (from both the "would this help town" sense and what I was expecting from you) I probably would've gone with my original conclusion and began an FF lynch. That would've probably made me obvious-town and opened up pretty much anyone as a lynch target next game day (I'm not sure if this was before or after I forgot I was scum lol, I just remember thinking FF should've been the play).


The thing was, ramming yourself against me like you did basically was slamming your credibility against mine, something that pretty much guaranteed town loss whereas if you hadn't pushed for me (or at the very least down it in a less inconsistent and scummy way) and we ended up lynching FF instead, you had another day to pressure me and potentially pin me as mafia.

 

[DanGR]

K, afterthoughts. Through most of this post I'm a lot more confused than I am angry and upset about all of this, fyi.


Why is every abnormal act is considered scummy? Do you realize how easy it is for newbies to get lynched because we never know what the hell is going on and asking can get you killed? (yes, I sincerely didn't know what lylo was, thank you)- especially when we have no idea what the setup is and what the norms are. We don't know what you guys think are scummy so we have to sit back and ask safe questions, and try not to act scummy, which is apparently scummy for some reason- I actually had to restrain myself from being myself in that game in fear that some dude would think acting normal was scummy.

For example, there was no way anyone would let me say how easily my opinion of Sir Bed changed after his responses to my accusations that last day. They looked genuine. (Good job in that regard, Sir Bed, and you would have fooled me if you said the same thing as scum.) Instead I had to act like my opinion gradually shifted over to him being town to avoid the possibility of someone saying something dumb like "Man your opinion changed quickly! You trying to blah blah blah?" And I'd probably have to argue something profound for anyone to believe me too.

Similarly, earlier I felt like I had to act like my opinion of Vocal gradually shifted into something of distaste when in reality it started that way after my first game. And no offense Vocal, but I just don't think the same way as you, I think, and don't understand where you come up with most things, which is really the core of my distaste for your style. It's absolutely nothing personal. You're a cool dude. ^^



That said, it seems there's a thousand ways to pick up on scum besides looking at who votes for who, who can make better good arguments suited for a court, and a bunch of the other stuff some of you guys seem to think are reliable tells. All the really scummy tells (by that I mean non-town tells) that game imo seemed to stem from scum trying to act like they didn't know something and not doing a good job at it, or just acting generally in a certain way for some reason but forgetting to take something into account, or acting a little unnatural.




Which reminds me. Is it normal for scum to make an argument from a newbie player seem so bad that it warrants expressed anger towards the individual? Happened to both me and Vocal.

If so, why didn't anyone pick up on that from OS and Adumb? They did it a lot in the beginning and cooled down towards the latter half of the game.

If not, why not?? :< What does looking peeved do for town, again? This game their angry looking posts looked pretty dang scummy to me, but no one ever commented on it so I figured it wasn't the norm and that I was wrong because I'm a noob. But everyone that looked angry this game for dumb reasons turned out the be the ones we should have lynched. Just a coincidence I guess?




And I'm in agreement with FF about inactivity. I don't see a reason we can't have more than 1 deadline extension and why the rules about that are so restrictive. This isn't an e-sport or anything. It's a turn-based forum game. We should have more leniency, I think.

 

[X1-12]

"In this game the scummiest player is Lynched, regardless of alignment"

-McFox



Still calming down, will do shoutouts later

 

[adumbrodeus]

K, afterthoughts. Through most of this post I'm a lot more confused than I am angry and upset about all of this, fyi.


Why is every abnormal act is considered scummy? Do you realize how easy it is for newbies to get lynched because we never know what the hell is going on and asking can get you killed? (yes, I sincerely didn't know what lylo was, thank you)- especially when we have no idea what the setup is and what the norms are. We don't know what you guys think are scummy so we have to sit back and ask safe questions, and try not to act scummy, which is apparently scummy for some reason- I actually had to restrain myself from being myself in that game in fear that some dude would think acting normal was scummy.

Not every abnormal act, but the real issue is right here, your primary mentality. As I stated in my case against sir bed your mentality should not be to survive in this game. You should only go into survival mode when somebody is directly making a case on you, because your job as town (especially a VT) is not to survive, it's to kill scum.

Frankly that fundamental difference in mentality is what allows scumhunting to be possible in the first place because scum can imitate townplay very well, but at a certain point they always have the primary objective of surviving whereas town has the primary objective of killing scum, thus searching for clues that somebody is actually just trying to survive is one of the most important tools in your scumhunting arsenal.

Why? Because town can't just survive, they need to get that lynch and kill that scum, otherwise they'll auto-lose. If there are never any lynches, scum win. Period.

For example, there was no way anyone would let me say how easily my opinion of Sir Bed changed after his responses to my accusations that last day. They looked genuine. (Good job in that regard, Sir Bed, and you would have fooled me if you said the same thing as scum.) Instead I had to act like my opinion gradually shifted over to him being town to avoid the possibility of someone saying something dumb like "Man your opinion changed quickly! You trying to blah blah blah?" And I'd probably have to argue something profound for anyone to believe me too.

Not really, if you could show one statement that totally changed your opinion on a slot you can say it.

If it looked forced (either quickly or slowly) then people will look at it closely.

That said, it seems there's a thousand ways to pick up on scum besides looking at who votes for who, who can make better good arguments suited for a court, and a bunch of the other stuff some of you guys seem to think are reliable tells. All the really scummy tells (by that I mean non-town tells) that game imo seemed to stem from scum trying to act like they didn't know something and not doing a good job at it, or just acting generally in a certain way for some reason but forgetting to take something into account, or acting a little unnatural.

All scumtells stem from a few basic things that differentiates them from town.

1. Their priority in a game is to survive, town's is to kill them.

2. They have to lie, town doesn't.

3. They know whose town or at the very least whose not part of their faction.


Who votes for who is definitely part of it, but that's what you're trying to prove.

Which reminds me. Is it normal for scum to make an argument from a newbie player seem so bad that it warrants expressed anger towards the individual? Happened to both me and Vocal.

If so, why didn't anyone pick up on that from OS and Adumb? They did it a lot in the beginning and cooled down towards the latter half of the game.

If not, why not?? :< What does looking peeved do for town, again? This game their angry looking posts looked pretty dang scummy to me, but no one ever commented on it so I figured it wasn't the norm and that I was wrong because I'm a noob. But everyone that looked angry this game for dumb reasons turned out the be the ones we should have lynched. Just a coincidence I guess?

Coincidence entirely, the mistakes were dumb enough to warrant getting peeved about and we both have a pattern of doing it when it's warranted.

Two reasons, one it generally makes them not make the mistake again in the game. Two, being talked down about it tends to stop them from making the mistake in the future improving their play overall.

And I'm in agreement with FF about inactivity. I don't see a reason we can't have more than 1 deadline extension and why the rules about that are so restrictive. This isn't an e-sport or anything. It's a turn-based forum game. We should have more leniency, I think.

On one hand, I'd like more leniency, but I realize why it's there, there are substantial issues with games stalling out because of deadlines being to lenient.

"In this game the scummiest player is Lynched, regardless of alignment"

-McFox



Still calming down, will do shoutouts later

Xivii is wrong, you played the best out of your team in lylo by far. You lost because there wasn't a practical way to account for them playing badly in such scummy ways and because nobody ever bothered to pressure me in a way that forced me to revert to the base weaknesses that scum has.

You came in on the last day with 1 obvious-scum player that was town and had his gameplay theory based on scum's gameplan and another who returned who had the same issue with his gameplan.


As a curiosity, why did you think FF was so town?

 

[X1-12]

Sir B: several times you had the opportunity to convince me that adum was scum, but you AtE'd and WIFOMed like a pro. If you thought Dan was town you should have just said so, not defending every point against him, don't talk for others in mafia games.

Xivii is wrong, you played the best out of your team in lylo by far. You lost because there wasn't a practical way to account for them playing badly in such scummy ways and because nobody ever bothered to pressure me in a way that forced me to revert to the base weaknesses that scum has.

I agree with what adum was saying here tbh. Nothing you were saying was giving me a townie vibe.

As a curiosity, why did you think FF was so town?

Because I was sure Dan and Sir B were scum.

 

[X1-12]

Dan: Don't be discouraged, sometimes you make mistakes, everyone does, it doesn't mean you are a bad player. Most of the time fake claiming as town is just not a good idea

Swiss: You told me Dan was scum >

OS: well played, except tbh at the end if you were maf I think you'd have
given a random name as your scumbuddy when asked. Either way I think you did well

BSL: from what I remember you played a pretty solid townie game whilst you were alive

Vocal: don't be discouraged either, also try your hardest to not mix emotions with this game. Seriously no hard feelings pro

Nabe: replacing into the slot you did very well, I got town vibes from you straight away.

 

[Overswarm]

OS: well played, except tbh at the end if you were maf I think you'd have
given a random name as your scumbuddy when asked. Either way I think you did well

I was going to claim I was a mafia traitor and pick one of the abductees. Would have guessed wrong though, so wouldn't have worked.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OS did you get to know the roles of the people you abducted?

 

[Overswarm]

No, otherwise I'd have been fine.

 

[Purple]

I sucked in this game imo.

 

[BSL]

Hey, mafia, is there a reason why you guys killed me N1?

 

[-Vocal-]

Hey, mafia, is there a reason why you guys killed me N1?

Because you were easy pickings with no connections lol

(Also I love how I got picked on for realizing something as simple as that)

 

[BSL]

But was that the actual reason? That's just what town guessed.

 

[I voted yes on Spear Pillar]

Because you were easy pickings with no connections. Town was absolutely right.


Good job vocal *brofists*


-Adum

 

[BSL]

x10

 

[ranmaru]

Make some connections. :3