Majora's Mask Mafia | Game Over!

[Dastrn]

I don't have a huge plan. I'm honestly not doing much right now. Can't be super active.

 

[X1-12]

>.>

I'm the one who asked the question I don't need to answer it because I never questioned BSL being a good nk.

Dodge #2

Who would you have NK'ed if you were scum, you imply BSL?


@OS I can't make a case until I do some more reading, but I think I've definitely got scum. It should be a couple of days at most, maybe even later tonight.

 

[-Vocal-]

I think it might be prudent for everyone to wait for both X1 and Dastrn to explain just WTF they're doing. I'm completely lost as to what either of them are planning.

This, and wait for Bed to answer your question. Pplz need to post already, rise and shine mother smuckers - tis day two, ya heard?

 

[Swiss]

X1 make it tonight. We cannot risk inactivity waiting for you.

 

[X1-12]

Still need vocal to tell me who he would NK as scum, I'll start reading tonight but deadline is 9 days away

@Mod: Coul you change deadline in thread title

 

[-Vocal-]

Still need vocal to tell me who he would NK as scum, I'll start reading tonight but deadline is 9 days away

@Mod: Coul you change deadline in thread title

BSL - wasn't that made obvious? The reasoning has already been posted

I'm upset that BSL was lynched (may he rest in peace) solely because there's little to no context to extrapolate from. He had very few posts, so he was a very safe lynch for mafia.

First thing I said when the day started, hence why I didn't really need to answer my own question. It also seemed like others had the same mindset, save for Bedevere, which is why I asked him what he would have done differently

 

[X1-12]

A few facts don't add up here, I hoped I would get much more from reading Newbie 8 which was Vocal's first game, but nonetheless i see some incongruencies with Vocal.

Point 1

From Newbie 8

Oh wait, I forgot Frio voted for Draco. Well that changes things to be even more important. I'm still keeping my vote on Draco but

DON'T DROP THE HAMMER VOTE WITHOUT FAIR WARNING.

Interesting that this should come from the player who 'accidentally' hammered Roxy yesterday before his claim even though in his first newbie game which he was told this:

From Newbie 8

2. Do not roleclaim unless you are one vote from being lynched (L-1) and someone who isn't voting for you asks you to claim.
3. Equally, do not hammer (place the lynching vote on) someone without doing #2, unless you're five minutes from deadline or something. Lynching the cop sucks.
4. Do not lie, especially about your role. Just don't.

Point 2

This player who I've been constantly writing off a noob town all day actually comes out and says that he would Nightkill BSL. No way, no frickin' way. Either he is writing that to look clever (if so then look above to rule #4) or it had been explained to him as to why its a good NK. OS and Swiss, and probably others, you know a good player was influencing that NK yet Vocal says this

I'm upset that BSL was lynched (may he rest in peace) solely because there's little to no context to extrapolate from. He had very few posts, so he was a very safe lynch for mafia. I guess we start exploring who would want to keep Dan safe, why, and go from there.

Okay this is where I start thinking about who he could be scum with, firstly I call Adum, and I would like Overswarm's opinion in this since he probably knows Adum best but does the above quoted not sound just a bit like an adum post? I realise I am stretching it here but this is just the start of my suspicion.

Point 3

@Adum: Can you dig into this post and tell me if there's anything you don't like in it?

It certainly left a sour taste in my mouth, but I was going to let it ride for the time being and see where it led.

Firstly this post I don't like, Vocal finds the post scummy but is OK just to not do anything about it? Woah. Also I quite clearly addressed this point to Adum (his name was bolded in original post) yet Vocal feels the need to answer?


Unvote
Vote: -Vocal-

 

[-Vocal-]

Wheeee defense time

Point 1

Interesting that this should come from the player who 'accidentally' hammered Roxy yesterday before his claim even though in his first newbie game which he was told this:

Or not so interesting when we look back, and see that I actually initially removed my vote in order to keep a thing such as this from happening. Then my day went ****ty, people started calling me a bad player for removing my vote, and I said well sooooorry and voted again, really in too bad of a mood to count votes more than once to be sure.

Point 2

This player who I've been constantly writing off a noob town all day actually comes out and says that he would Nightkill BSL. No way, no frickin' way. Either he is writing that to look clever (if so then look above to rule #4) or it had been explained to him as to why its a good NK. OS and Swiss, and probably others, you know a good player was influencing that NK yet Vocal says this



Okay this is where I start thinking about who he could be scum with, firstly I call Adum, and I would like Overswarm's opinion in this since he probably knows Adum best but does the above quoted not sound just a bit like an adum post? I realise I am stretching it here but this is just the start of my suspicion.

You think that just because I'm noobtown that I'm entirely devoid of all logical reasoning capabilities? I go to an Ivy League school man, give me some credit.

I may not be familiar with the nuances of extracting information and tells from other players, and hence my methods have been less than stellar, but something like this requires no specific knowledge of mafia mindgames. The most important thing for town to do after a nk is to look at who was killed and explore mafia's motives for going for that person. From there, they then look at previous posts to see if a connection can be made to discern one or more of the mob. By nightkilling a player with no ties to anyone, mafia gives town nothing to go off of - it's basically a null tell lynch. This is also why towards the middle of D1 I advocated so hard that we wait for those who had not been posting to begin to contribute; because they had few ties, it simply made them too easy of a lynch, not to mention it gives no point of reference if one of them were to be mafia.

Point 3

Firstly this post I don't like, Vocal finds the post scummy but is OK just to not do anything about it? Woah. Also I quite clearly addressed this point to Adum (his name was bolded in original post) yet Vocal feels the need to answer?

Firstly, I made the mistake before of becoming uncomfortable with things and then immediately jumping into action. This time around, I'm taking a less direct approach - I feel it is better to let information and tells come more naturally than by trying to create them with sheer force. I know what I am doing, and I would prefer to not detail my every move, as that would defeat the purpose of refraining from attack. In addition, as the point had already been brought up, although it post was addressed to adumb I felt that it would be constructive to give my opinion of it as well.

Chill out bro. Have some coffee. Wait for everyone to wake up - we've got plenty of day ahead of us.

 

[-Vocal-]

EBWOP: In my response to Point 2, when I say "null tell lynch" I mean "null tell night kill."

 

[adumbrodeus]

I still want sir B to answer, but also, who would you night kill (not lynch) if you were scum?

@All but vocal: has anyone read Newbie 8?

Yes, why?


Also, nothing that stands out as fishy, but the meta tells I have on him are mainly behavioral, so we'll see.

As scum, I think the best kill targets are people who are active and do protown things, but not the person who is MOST protown (aka the most likely person for a doc target). I don't think killing inactives/useless players/weaker players are very good for the mafia at all, because in all likelihood, town is going to end up mislynching them anyway. Who they went after/how right they were about who was town/mafia is not really important; the only thing that matters is that they're active and good players, and thus a threat. In that vein, I think Swiss/Dastrn/Pierre would all be pretty good kill targets (and it looks like the Abducter agrees with me). If I had to choose one, it'd probably be Pierre.

However, after thinking about it, in this situation, and looking at what OS said, killing BSL was also acceptable, since we didn't really get much info out of him/Roxy/Dangr leaving us. It just wasn't the first NK choice that immediately came to me (omg wifom).

@X1, I remember skimming it, but I barely remember anything from it.

An Abductor is an Independent role that, during the Night, can abduct any player, which is what happened to Dangr (can't post, can't be killed, etc). Like an SK, they win when they're the only one left, but if they get killed before then, all the people he abducted come back into the game and play resumes as normal.

Does abducting have precedence over killing? If so we might get to make the mafia claim in a 3-man lylo situation since they'll lose if they lynch a townie/we'll lose if we lynch the scum.

@mod, if an abductor were to exist in this game, would their abducting abilities occur before any night killing abilities (specifically, the mafia's ability to night kill), or at the same time, or after?

Question Sir Bed, why Pierre?

>.>

I'm the one who asked the question I don't need to answer it because I never questioned BSL being a good nk.

Just because it was your question doesn't mean somebody can't ask you to answer it yourself.


As for me, If I were scum OS would probably be my first choice due to the fact that he's got a pretty strong record of reading me when I'm scum, making him a stronger liability to my scum game then any other player in the game. His record of reading me when I'm town however... is a bit lackluster.


This question is wiformy as hell btw.




@everyone: could you guys answer swiss' question? I wanna see what he has in mind.







Dastrn confuses me as does pierre, they definitely need to be watched toDay.

 

[Swiss]

@everyone: could you guys answer swiss' question? I wanna see what he has in mind.

Inandoutb4pplaskwhyi'veignoredeverythingelse

What question?

 

[Sir Bedevere]

This post makes me a tad uncomfortable to be honest. It seems almost like Bedevere is trying to make a specific effort to appear to miss those who are no longer in our presence, whereas everyone else has simply accepted the occurrences and begun to analyze them. It smells faintly of mafia to me - what is everyone else's opinion?

It was kinda obvious yesterday that I was buddying DangR (since he was, to me at least, obvtown), so I was sad to see him go. Was hoping that my certainty in his towniness would push him into "obv doc target range" and thus a bad scum target, but I don't think abductors care about docs. :<

This entire line of thought is kinda WIFOMy, anyway.

Bed, why's your vote on me?

I had/have the same gut read as Swiss (and possibly X1).

If anyone else wants to hop on board, my vote be there. :3

Anyways, scum is a decent player. They killed a crap player. There are (at least one) possibly two scum in myself, Adum, Pierre & OS. Puttin' that out there now.

Agreed sentiments.

I think Sir Bed is most likely scum at this point.

His "why would scum do that" just sounds like he's trying too hard to sound like he doesn't understand.

vote: Sir Bed

There's no way to prove that I did or did not legitimately think that BSL was a good NK choice, at least until after OS explained why. Unless you can quote my post and point out exactly where I was specifically trying to appear unknowledgeable, I'm going to call BS. I mean, I'm not even sure how to defend from this lol. All I know is that you're wrong.

@dastrn

I don't agree with your read on the situation, but how did you come to conclusion that specifically one of them was mafia? Was it only because of the way they were playing the exchange? Also, are you really willing to trust your one read on this situation enough to make a lynch based on the logic of your read?

why haven't you responded to this yet. :<

@adum, DangR, as I said, might have been a good doc target, and thus someone to potentially stay away from. Swiss sometimes acts pretty scummy on his own, although he'd probably be my second choice. Pierre, though somewhat inactive, is the unknown, and was already hyped in the game to be a strong player. I've seen him play and I know he's good, so taking out strong threats early in the game before they really get a chance to get stuff done is an obvious boon to scum.

yo yo teachin the scum how to scum

which question?

 

[Dastrn]

why haven't you responded to this yet. :<

Sometimes I get bored or stop paying super close attention to slow games, and then I don't bother answering every little thing every time someone is curious about something.

 

[-Vocal-]

Well anywho, now that Bed has answered OS's question, I finally explain why that earlier post left a bad taste in my mouth.

My current suspicion is that both Sir Bedevere and OS are scum. I'll post my reasons for wondering so later; atm I've got to run back to rehearsal.

 

[Overswarm]

I had/have the same gut read as Swiss (and possibly X1).

If anyone else wants to hop on board, my vote be there. :3

So there are three people on me that have a "gut read".

 

[-Vocal-]

So there are three people on me that have a "gut read".

I have slightly more than gut, but I'll post after rehearsal

 

[-Vocal-]

You know, after scrutinizing everything I had inside of my head before, I don't really know if I have anything solid enough to bring against Sir Bed and OS. I've made the mistake of posting WIFOM before, which leads me to believe that my current theory might be WIFOM as well (still getting used to that concept).

Idk. I suppose it can't hurt to share, especially since I've already mentioned it. Also, sorry for this posts length.

Basically, Sir Bed's response to Night, OS's response to Sir Bed's response, and their interactions thereafter seem like scum organization to me. Sir Bed posts this first:

uhh

Why did scum kill BSL? I ISO'd him, he had like no connections to anyone (he essentially FOS'd OS, that was it). Does anyone have any reliable scum meta on a player in this game who always likes to kill players who have few connections? Or is that just something people sometimes do as scum. >_>

why did they take my dangr away :<

Here, Sir Bed appears to be confused as to what reasoning mafia could have used to come to the conclusion of lynching BSL. As far as I have been able to tell, no one else was confused as to why BSL was lynched, yet Sir Bed seems to not see what the rest of us have seen. At the time I took note, but did not read too much into it. It's then followed by this:

os bandwagon seems fun

vote: os

We'll come back to this later.

OS then responds to him saying:

That's exactly why they'd do it. Same reason the abductor (I agree with you, Pierre) targetted DangR. ToDay is currently a crapshoot.

Strong scum will rarely target people that directly attack them; it's too obvious and there's always at least one person that tunnels them because of it. More often they target people that no one can trace. As such, they get exactly 0 information on the flip.

We have a mislynch D1 due to Vocal accidentally hammering prior to Roxy's claim
We have a virutally unknown townie killed at Night
We have another fairly quiet one abducted

Now it's like a new D1, except with 3 people gone. Granted, DangR could be scum, but we aren't sure. Either way it's not the best scenario for us.

Explaining the reasons why mafia targeted BSL. Same thing the rest of us thought, but he needed to explain this to Sir Bed. Still somewhat odd, but less of a reflection on OS at this point, and perhaps only noteworthy once we look at later conversation between the two.

The next post to move to is Sir Bed's response:

As scum, I think the best kill targets are people who are active and do protown things, but not the person who is MOST protown (aka the most likely person for a doc target). I don't think killing inactives/useless players/weaker players are very good for the mafia at all, because in all likelihood, town is going to end up mislynching them anyway. Who they went after/how right they were about who was town/mafia is not really important; the only thing that matters is that they're active and good players, and thus a threat. In that vein, I think Swiss/Dastrn/Pierre would all be pretty good kill targets (and it looks like the Abducter agrees with me). If I had to choose one, it'd probably be Pierre.

However, after thinking about it, in this situation, and looking at what OS said, killing BSL was also acceptable, since we didn't really get much info out of him/Roxy/Dangr leaving us. It just wasn't the first NK choice that immediately came to me (omg wifom).

Here Sir Bed presents a somewhat believable reason for questioning mafia's train of thought, then admits that it was OS's reasoning that allowed him to look at the situation from a new point of view. We'll return to this fact later.

The post that truly began to plant roots of doubt in my mind was the one where OS addressed the wagon on him:

I'm wondering if it is possible or even likely that all 3 scum could be on my wagon.

It grew quickly without too much substance to it, but I can see where Swiss is coming from and X1-12 has been known to parrot. Especially Swiss.

So I can't read either of them just at this moment, although Swiss strikes me as odd. I did a baseless Roxy lynch in Community, and I did it the same way he's pushing for me now... so I wonder.

But I can't confirm anything and asking questions about it won't help since I know the options.

So all I have left is Sir Bedevere.


Bed, why's your vote on me?

For some reason, OS singles out Sir Bed as the one person he would be able to get a read on. Sir Bed, the person who has posted the least (or close to it) in this game, and with whom (if I presume correctly) OS has played the least. Why would he be able to read Sir Bed and not the others? Does this make Sir Bed the only one who could have legitimate reasoning for voting for him, or the only one who could definitely be mafia? I can't exactly word why this makes me feel odd, but perhaps bringing attention to it is enough.

And what was Sir Bed's response?

I had/have the same gut read as Swiss (and possibly X1).

If anyone else wants to hop on board, my vote be there. :3

He says he has no reason to vote OS, like he had before - "wagon on OS is fun."

What train of thought did all of this lead my to?

Sir Bed appears clueless about BSL's lynch in order to appear more townie, then OS swoops in to explain the reasoning behind it, at which point Sir Bed understands all. Sir Bed then votes for his scum mate so that at a later point in the game, if OS were ever to be uncovered as scum, he could point and use that vote as a base for a explanation of why he didn't trust him at the time.

As I said when I began, this is all very shaky, but I figure that I might as well post it and see what others have to say about it.

 

[Overswarm]

For some reason, OS singles out Sir Bed as the one person he would be able to get a read on. Sir Bed, the person who has posted the least (or close to it) in this game, and with whom (if I presume correctly) OS has played the least. Why would he be able to read Sir Bed and not the others? Does this make Sir Bed the only one who could have legitimate reasoning for voting for him, or the only one who could definitely be mafia? I can't exactly word why this makes me feel odd, but perhaps bringing attention to it is enough.

Did you miss the part where I explained what happened in Community mafia, and Swiss said the same thing? Or X1's parroting of Swiss, just like in Community? Leaving only one person I could actively question, being Sir Bed?

-_-;;

 

[-Vocal-]

Did you miss the part where I explained what happened in Community mafia, and Swiss said the same thing? Or X1's parroting of Swiss, just like in Community? Leaving only one person I could actively question, being Sir Bed?

-_-;;

Which is why I said it wasn't conclusive. I didn't say you didn't have good reasons, I was just pointing out my suspicions. Not every suspicion must arise from faulty reasoning.

 

[Swiss]

Would lynch Das or OS.

 

[-Vocal-]

Would lynch Das or OS.

I would lynch OS. Five to lynch and 3 voting? Someone just got a brand new L1!

Vote: OS

No one hammer yet (posted that partially for the irony)

 

[adumbrodeus]

What is this I don't even.


Vocal, that's not wiform, that's just bad reasoning, all you're doing is putting a scum spin on actions without explaining why they're INHERENTLY scummy.


Also, what's this with him only being able to get a read on sir bed, he said that he already knows at least basically why the others are on him even though swiss makes him feel weird, hence he says he's picking on the person that he thinks he can get info from.










This wagon grew way too fast, mafia's either on it or doing nothing to stop it which makes me doubt OS is mafia (doesn't do much about the abductor possibility though) unless it's a bus which i strongly doubt at this stage, and I strongly suspect that at least 1 scum is on his wagon, probably more.



So... why are we bringing people to l-1 with no case whatsoever?

 

[Overswarm]

Vocal's bad, X1 is parroting, Swiss is paranoid. All 3 might be scum.

Sir Bed is the only I can't wrap my head around. Dumb or scum scenario.

 

[Overswarm]

Adum, who do you think of those is most likely to be scum?

 

[-Vocal-]

Vocal, that's not wiform, that's just bad reasoning, all you're doing is putting a scum spin on actions without explaining why they're INHERENTLY scummy.

Noted, feel free to ignore it all then

New smilies are awesome

 

[Overswarm]

Vocal, what other games have you been in?

 

[Overswarm]

I'd really like to get this finished before Thursday afternoon, as I'll be mostly V/LA due to MLG.

Everyone's so quiet now.

 

[Swiss]

Someone hammer, k.

 

[Overswarm]

Yeah, no thanks.

Wagon with no substance. Not even wifom.
No questions for me. No requests for a claim.
Just straight up "vote OS"

You have to realize how anti-town that is, Swiss.

 

[Overswarm]

Pierre, what's your take on this?

 

[Swiss]

No point tellin' you to claim. Claim if ya want. Idc.

 

[-Vocal-]

Vocal, what other games have you been in?

Newbie Mafia, 8 I believe, which is why X1 asked about it earlier

 

[Overswarm]

Newbie Mafia, 8 I believe, which is why X1 asked about it earlier

I'm aware. Just wanted to see if you were watching the thread.

Vocal, do you agree with adumbrodeus?

 

[Swiss]

He's been posting regularly, why 'test him' now, OS? Why not just ask that question straight away?

You're so full of BS it's ridiculous.

 

[Overswarm]

He's been posting regularly, why 'test him' now, OS? Why not just ask that question straight away?

You're so full of BS it's ridiculous.

I don't think you understand. I already knew the answer when I asked it. I asked it to see how fast he would respond.

 

[Swiss]

Yet you are already aware that he has been posting regularly.

Even if you had been watching his profile you could have gleaned little to no information from that.

 

[Overswarm]

Yet you are already aware that he has been posting regularly.

Even if you had been watching his profile you could have gleaned little to no information from that.

That isn't true.

Now that we know you're here, what's your case on me?

Also, ask me two questions.

 

[-Vocal-]

I'm aware. Just wanted to see if you were watching the thread.

Vocal, do you agree with adumbrodeus?

Which part?

Vocal, that's not wiform, that's just bad reasoning, all you're doing is putting a scum spin on actions without explaining why they're INHERENTLY scummy.

I know, that's why I said they were only suspicions. There's nothing solid there to go off of, but it just felt scummy tbh. I could be wrong, no denying that, I just figured I'd share what was going through my mind.

Also, what's this with him only being able to get a read on sir bed, he said that he already knows at least basically why the others are on him even though swiss makes him feel weird, hence he says he's picking on the person that he thinks he can get info from.

Well

So I can't read either of them just at this moment

^

This wagon grew way too fast, mafia's either on it or doing nothing to stop it which makes me doubt OS is mafia (doesn't do much about the abductor possibility though) unless it's a bus which i strongly doubt at this stage, and I strongly suspect that at least 1 scum is on his wagon, probably more.

So... why are we bringing people to l-1 with no case whatsoever?

Pressure? Give the game some direction until something more pertinent appears? Doing something is better than doing nothing...right?

I could remove my vote if you think that would be more productive

 

[Swiss]

Hurr durr

Who are your scumbuddies?

How big is my grin?

 

[Swiss]

We are NOT gonna unvote and let OS slip away, that's what he DOES. Srsly. He likes tobe the play early and feck off so he doesn't get lynched.