Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

[Inferno3044]

WK use your head. Do you understand what a scum motivator would mean? It would end up in scum getting 2 kills per night because they would motivate scum to get an additional kill.

Also as said, if one of the VTs is hiding and is the motivator I recommend you come out now.

 

[Circus]

Circus, can we not go tooth and nails again this game? You're too cool for that, and I want to go ahead and say that before I really start pushing against you.

There will be no teeth nor nails here.

Small question before I REALLY get to replying to this. Do you really think that there are 2 different indy killing factions here? Really? Honest question here.

The Abductor is not a killing role. T-block should come back to the game if we kill the Abductor. And right now, I don't know what alignment the Abductor and Poisoner are, other than "not town." I suspect one of them is a member of the mafia.

I'm honestly thinking at this point that we might have an abductor who can only "take" one person at a time and poisons the rest of the time. Two indy's would be hella unbalanced.

But the poisoning and the abducting would have to happen at the same time in order to get the results we've seen. Poison kills its target the Night after it's used, so the poisoner must have targeted Solid N1, the same Night that T-block was abducted. The only way the Abductor and the Poisoner can be the same person is if that person can use both abilities on the same Night. That's an unlikely enough possibility that I dismiss it.

Oh come on. You've played two games with me out of my 5 (counting this one), and this is my first time getting cop in a DGames scenario. I don't find consistency as an issue here. Besides, RR has been said to be "always cop," and Ryker is scum a LOT from what I've seen on here, so it's not like the "hurr durr you've been cop in my last two games with you so you can't be it!" argument works here.

You're better than this.

I wasn't making an argument that you can't be Cop. I know how roles work, and I know you don't just get excluded from certain ones once you've had them several times.

However, since you have been Cop a couple times, I do know that you'd probably be pretty comfortable faking it if you had to fake a PR. Especially since you got to claim last. It's easy for scum to fake, you knew you wouldn't get CC'd, and you're familiar with how to play as Cop believably, since you've actually had to do it multiple times before (I bring this up because I've personally never been Cop in a mafia game).

So you're absolutely right. No one else has been motivated, so T-Block was likely the motivator.

Here's my big question, though. Who ever said that T-Block was a TOWN motivator? I've got a guilty on him, which means that, obviously, he was scum. If we follow your logic as presented here that basically proves that he was the motivator, we can only come to the conclusion that he was a scum motivator, which would make sense if scum has an investigative role or two.

So, logically, you have to be scum since you were motivated N1.

Vote: Circus, and this is where my vote is staying.

WOW.

I understand why you're making this argument, because you have to double down on your claim now, but this is still absolutely ridiculous. Motivator's are traditionally town. It doesn't make any sense for a Motivator to be indie (I should think it obvious why), and a scum Motivator would, in almost any set-up, be broken, because they would just motivate their scummates. If T-block is a mafia Motivator, then the mafia team would have to be even more nerfed than we previously thought, and the fact that he targeted me to be motivated still wouldn't make any sense. Obviously I know I'm town. But even from an outside perspective, why would T-scum motivate me, even if I were his buddy? Why wouldn't he motivate the NK?

And how convenient of you to have this easy out against my claim. I can't help it that my target got abducted N1, so I will admit that this can be a decent push against my claim.

However, this is the only valid point that I've seen so far, and it's the only one that isn't defensible on my part. There's no way that I can say "Dude, no, I swear, I investigated him" without making myself look more desperate to prove myself, so I won't get baited into doing that.

I'm glad you concede the points.

"Also, not to be 'that guy' (honest, guyz), but I'm totally gonna be that guy."

In a game where we have a simple even night commuter AND a jailer (apparently) as well, I think that we can conclude that it's impossible to conclude anything based on the role names. You're better than this, and you know it.

Yes, I am better than this, as you so helpfully keep reminding me. That's why this isn't the bulk of my argument against you, but icing on the cake instead. I don't expect anyone to be swayed by the flavor. It's there for taste, not for substance.

And how do they conflict with each other? You give no reasoning here other than "they conflict with each other."

You investigate people and Nabe gets innos on people he survives behind. Nabe essentially has partial Cop abilities.

Now that's a funny lynchpool. Where did the Dabuz hate come from? If you posted that earlier, I apologize, and I would be much obliged if you showed me where.

Dabuz is someone that needs to be analyzed depending on how other flips work out, I think. You apparently cleared Dabuz, though that can be called into question if you're actually scum, and Inferno apparently jailed Dabuz, which, itself, could explain the lack of a Night Kill on D1. But unlike Inferno, I would assume that he blocked Dabuz from killing, rather than protecting Dabuz from getting killed, because I can't figure why scum would have wanted Dabuz dead the most. Dabuz is also one of the many VT claims we have, and I gotta believe one of them's faking. I don't think Kuz is, and I don't think Red Ryu is, at this point. That leaves Dabuz and Acrostic.

 

[Circus]

Oh, lots of posts.

 

[Dabuz]

So like, does it strike anyone else as odd that WK was confirmed as a sane cop? Im questioning whether anyone else has sanity based roles.

So basically, confirmed enabler? Or is it just setup speculation?

Next, I am curious as to why I was jailed, why would scum target me?

??? is the oddest townie role IMO, because ??? is definitely one of the games most neutral characters, and he himself shows up at night in the game.

 

[Inferno3044]

So like, does it strike anyone else as odd that WK was confirmed as a sane cop? Im questioning whether anyone else has sanity based roles.

So basically, confirmed enabler? Or is it just setup speculation?

Next, I am curious as to why I was jailed, why would scum target me?

??? is the oddest townie role IMO, because ??? is definitely one of the games most neutral characters, and he himself shows up at night in the game.

My 2 strongest town reads when I was reading D1 were you and Raziek and my gut said to jail you. Also it strikes me as odd that it would say sane cop instead of just cop. I don't like him and I'm not fond of Acrostic saying that J claimed indy which he didn't do.

 

[Dabuz]

My 2 strongest town reads when I was reading D1 were you and Raziek and my gut said to jail you. Also it strikes me as odd that it would say sane cop instead of just cop. I don't like him and I'm not fond of Acrostic saying that J claimed indy which he didn't do.

Where did J claim indy?

BTW, sorry for inactivity, college+2 mafia games=X_X

 

[Dabuz]

EBWOP: *Where did Acrostic say J claimed indy?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

My explanation is on pages #65-#67.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

As mentioned before, I find Nabe's claim to be awkward. For one, I disagree with Circus that it directly contradicts with Werekill's cop claim. Hider essentially protects itself from the night kill and also verifies the target at the same time. In other words, it strikes me as a make-shift between being both a cop and a jailer, sort of a survivor-cop and the main thing that bothers me is that my personal experience with survivors has been them mostly as third party.

 

[Raziek]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13578506&postcount=2607

Here, Dabuz. Read from around there. Nabe directly quotes the post J claims poisoner in. Note that Acrostic replaced J.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

A jailer-cop coordination is far more plausible in my mind than a jailer-hider combination. The only caveat to this would be if the jailer is able to have some mitigating effect with regards to the poison. If the jailer served in this capacity, then it would be sensible to have this sort of investigative/protective trifecta make sense. Please note that I haven't caught up to John2K's commuter claim, so if someone could elaborate on that then it would be appreciated. At this point, I don't really know why Werekill would attempt to serve as a counter claim to a similar role as either mafia or third party. My natural inclination would be that they would claim something far less controversial, especially when Werekill isn't a lynch candidate for today imo and has no reason to put himself in the line of fire.

 

[Circus]

As mentioned before, I find Nabe's claim to be awkward. For one, I disagree with Circus that it directly contradicts with Werekill's cop claim. Hider essentially protects itself from the night kill and also verifies the target at the same time. In other words, it strikes me as a make-shift between being both a cop and a jailer, sort of a survivor-cop and the main thing that bothers me is that my personal experience with survivors has been them mostly as third party.

You're using the word "survivor" here pretty disingenuously. There is a difference between the way you're using the word here to mean that Nabe avoids the kill and what a capital-S Survivor is in Mafia games.

Read up on the Hider role here. Really, Nabe's play suits the Hider role extremely well.

 

[Circus]

A jailer-cop coordination is far more plausible in my mind than a jailer-hider combination. The only caveat to this would be if the jailer is able to have some mitigating effect with regards to the poison. If the jailer served in this capacity, then it would be sensible to have this sort of investigative/protective trifecta make sense. Please note that I haven't caught up to John2K's commuter claim, so if someone could elaborate on that then it would be appreciated. At this point, I don't really know why Werekill would attempt to serve as a counter claim to a similar role as either mafia or third party. My natural inclination would be that they would claim something far less controversial, especially when Werekill isn't a lynch candidate for today imo and has no reason to put himself in the line of fire.

Werekill probably didn't expect the claim to be controversial. Cop claims typically aren't. In fact, if it weren't for the guilty he claimed on T-block, I might not have even taken issue with his claim, at least initially.

 

[Raziek]

Deadline is November 4th. If we want to have time to confirm my Double Time, we need to stop dragging our feet and decide on a lynch. We've got a weekend in between where I don't expect much activity.

I want to see in clear text whom people people are willing to lynch TODAY. Not toMorrow, Not Day 4, TODAY.

Today I am willing to lynch Acrostic, Inferno, Nabe, or Werekill.

Former two for being scummy, latter two for the most amount of information. Both would confirm at least one other player (Red Ryu or Dabuz) if they're Town.

 

[Inferno3044]

A jailer-cop coordination is far more plausible in my mind than a jailer-hider combination. The only caveat to this would be if the jailer is able to have some mitigating effect with regards to the poison. If the jailer served in this capacity, then it would be sensible to have this sort of investigative/protective trifecta make sense. Please note that I haven't caught up to John2K's commuter claim, so if someone could elaborate on that then it would be appreciated. At this point, I don't really know why Werekill would attempt to serve as a counter claim to a similar role as either mafia or third party. My natural inclination would be that they would claim something far less controversial, especially when Werekill isn't a lynch candidate for today imo and has no reason to put himself in the line of fire.

Maybe. I highly doubt that there are 2 town investigators so I have doubt in both of them.

 

[Circus]

John's Commuter ability basically just meant that he left town every even-numbered Night, avoiding being targeted by any Night actions for that Night. So he would have left Night 2 if we hadn't lynched him before he made it that long. I forget if he said the ability was compulsive or not.

 

[Raziek]

Pretty sure he said it was compulsive.

 

[Lore]

WK use your head. Do you understand what a scum motivator would mean? It would end up in scum getting 2 kills per night because they would motivate scum to get an additional kill.

Also as said, if one of the VTs is hiding and is the motivator I recommend you come out now.

Actually, I did my homework and checked on mafia wiki, and a motivator, no matter what alignment, cannot add an extra night kill.

Just think for a second on how broken that would be. A town motivator picks a random person, right? There's a 3/15 (or 1/5) chance (if this setup is 3 scum) of the motivator hitting scum, and that doesn't even include indies.

So yes, a mafia motivator is very very possible.

And T-Block was scum, so do the math.

@Circus: thanks for the civil reply. I'll follow suit tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

If we then look at hider-cop combination in comparison to the jailer, then this is slightly more plausible as you have essentially two investigative roles: a weak cop and a normal cop with the weak cop having some provisions for defense. However, assuming that this combination, assuming that Werekill is sane, and taking into account that there are no roles that could possibly skew reports i.e. godfathers, framers, and millers then that would would leave the following player slots unclear (I'm using Raziek's list):

1. Raziek - Link, Deku (currently), Town JoaT
2. T-Block - ???, ??? - Abducted N1 - Claimed guilty by Werekill
3. th3kuzinator - Lulu, Zora, VT
7. Red Ryu - Business Scrub, Deku, VT - Claimed Inno by Nabe
8. dabuz - Toto, Zora, VT - Claimed Inno by Werekill
9. Nabe - ??? (Stock Pot toilet hand), Unclassified, Town Hider
10. Circus - Mayor Dotour, Human, Town Census Taker
11. Werekill - Goron Elder, Goron, Town Sane Cop
14. Acrostic - Madame Aroma, Human, VT - Note: J claimed Poisoner
15. Inferno3044 - Sakon, Human, Town Jailkeeper

I haven't been able to complete a full read, however I do like the fact that Raziek is pushing lynches and questioning intent and I like OS's slot and the way he claimed when he replaced out. I don't see there being a large motivational factor for his slot to claim town when he is going to replace out. I also am not getting a large scum tell from Inferno's behavior and find that his primary jailer claim would be an extremely risky. It is possible that his role could coincide with with either a hooker/stalker role given the fact that his information does not conflict with the aforementioned claims. However that would not explain the presence of a third party present in this game. It is possible that this could be Raziek, but then again his behavior has been particularly pro-town and I do not believe that it is a likely situation at the moment. Therefore I have doubts that both investigative roles are legitimate given the aforementioned assumptions and personally find Nabe more questionable based on my prior post. At this point, my fos is on Nabe.

 

[Dabuz]

Ok, reading back, I think we should leave werekill alive, if he dies toNight (unless he is abducted) we have confirmed cop, if he doesn't, assuming he is cop, thats another clear.

I'm not really sure about Inferno being Jailer, but at the same time I don't see him being a strong lynch.

Nabe is definite scum candidate and I could see his flip being useful.

Acrostic is looking a lot like possible indy now, would lynch.

Honestly, I would rather not lynch yet because there may be more discussion to be had, Raziek, don't you also have a power to double the day's time?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I just realized that I neglected to consider the fact that the indie could come up innocent.

 

[Dabuz]

Well, IIRC, according to mafia wiki, isn't guilty (thats what it is called i think) a scum-alignment only description?

 

[Circus]

I just realized that I neglected to consider the fact that the indie could come up innocent.

If Werekill is telling the truth and he gets direct "innocent" and "guilty" results, then indies should come up as "guilty" for him.

I cannot stress enough how much a Motivator should claim their true role if they haven't yet. With the information we have, I have to assume that T-block is the Motivator. If that's not the case, that could really change things. If one of the living players here is the one who motivated me on N1, please speak up.

 

[Circus]

Even though we use the word "scum" as interchangeable with "mafia" on these boards a lot, indies also technically count as "scum."

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Honestly, I would rather not lynch yet because there may be more discussion to be had, Raziek, don't you also have a power to double the day's time?

We have nine days remaining.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

If Werekill is telling the truth and he gets direct "innocent" and "guilty" results, then indies should come up as "guilty" for him.

Werekill can you ask the moderator for information regarding this mechanic? In addition, the moderator still hasn't gotten back with regards to Nabe's question.

 

[Dabuz]

Also, I think we shouldn't rule out possibility that Jailer could be mafia aligned

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

No one has ruled out any possibilities. What people are saying is that Inferno's actual play and intent seems town and legit.

People need to read and comment on my analysis. I know it's in collapse tags and all but that's not a license to ignore it. :V

 

[Lore]

If Werekill is telling the truth and he gets direct "innocent" and "guilty" results, then indies should come up as "guilty" for him.

I cannot stress enough how much a Motivator should claim their true role if they haven't yet. With the information we have, I have to assume that T-block is the Motivator. If that's not the case, that could really change things. If one of the living players here is the one who motivated me on N1, please speak up.

Actually, I already asked him and he said no. Indies show up as innocent.

As for your second part, agreed. I inly think you're scum because of the motivator thing, but it's enough.

 

[Raziek]

No one has ruled out any possibilities. What people are saying is that Inferno's actual play and intent seems town and legit.

Who's saying this? He's been on my plate since D2 and he's set off multiple red flags in my head.

 

[Raziek]

And come on, people. Narrow your lynch pools. Setup WIFOM only takes us so far. Eventually we have to DO something.

 

[th3kuzinator]

hw johns.

i will be doing a full read this weekend and judging players based soley on play and not by claims

 

[Circus]

Actually, I already asked him and he said no. Indies show up as innocent.

That's very strange.

Nabe, if you were to hide behind an independent player, would you die? If you don't know, will you ask X1?

As for your second part, agreed. I inly think you're scum because of the motivator thing, but it's enough.

It really shouldn't be.

Nabe, I read your stuff. What exactly are you looking for in return? I think pretty much all of what you posted about "town points" and "counterweights" is well and good but hard to apply to the situation since we don't know how X1 thinks. We don't know what his idea of balance is (or at least, I don't), so it's hard to try and judge the set-up based on what you're saying.

How about just telling us what conclusions you're coming to. Do you believe Werekill's claim? Do you think your role and his can happily co-exist? Who's your least favorite VT? Who are you thinking of lynching toDay?

 

[Raziek]

Circus. Pick 3. Now. :E

 

[Circus]

I already posted my lynchpool. It looks just like yours, but replace Nabe with Dabuz.

 

[Raziek]

Ok. I want to starting getting these compiled so we see where the group stands.

Player - Will Lynch

Raziek - Acrostic, Inferno, Nabe, Werekill
Circus - Acrostic, Inferno, Dabuz, Werekill

If others have already posted their lynch pool, please quote it for me or post it in the above format.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Fire Emblem mafia had an Indy motivator with being an Abductor. Like not trying to add WIFOM but it;s possible, though Xiivi is super creative and super unpredictable with set-ups. I;ve only played Melee mafia with X1 as the host.

Anyways, I wanna wait for the mod's answer before I think of werekill as scum.

Acro and inferno though, that I can get behind, Acro is my #1 pick atm.

 

[Dabuz]

Pool: Inferno, Nabe, Acrostic

 

[Raziek]

Fire Emblem mafia had an Indy motivator with being an Abductor. Like not trying to add WIFOM but it;s possible, though Xiivi is super creative and super unpredictable with set-ups. I;ve only played Melee mafia with X1 as the host.

Anyways, I wanna wait for the mod's answer before I think of werekill as scum.

Acro and inferno though, that I can get behind, Acro is my #1 pick atm.

Pool: Inferno, Nabe, Acrostic

Player - Will Lynch

Raziek - Acrostic, Inferno, Nabe, Werekill
Circus - Acrostic, Inferno, Dabuz, Werekill
Red Ryu - Acrostic, Inferno, possibly Werekill
Dabuz - Acrostic, Inferno, Nabe

 

[Inferno3044]

Pool: Acrostic, Nabe, Werekill