Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

[Xastrn]

Race is valuable information in this game. By consequence, so is name.

Did I miss something from the mod or do you know something I don't?

 

[Overswarm]

Small question; what is this image supposed to mean? I'm massively tired, so I have no clue.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

People I would lynch right this second in the middle of linear algebra:

Werekill, Circus, Panta (where is he since the push?)

More from a CPU.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

And Raz is scum but that's okay atm

 

[Raziek]

Did I miss something from the mod or do you know something I don't?

I know something you don't. Don't half-claim, people. Your race affects night actions.

Nabe, why the hate?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

No hate. Actually, I've consciously decided you're good to have around. It's just a shame that you're scum, is all. Please recall that I'll be investigating you toNight, but note that now it's only really to confirm my assumption.

Moving forward from that, how do you feel about John?

 

[Raziek]

Not good, since he hasn't posted any real content, and jumped on the circus wagon off an (albeit mostly justified) OMGUS vote.

I'd like to see some actual stances from him.

John, your opinions on T-Block, J, Overswarm, and Frio, please. Alignment read, and short explanation.

Frio, another friendly reminder that you owe me some reads as well.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Oh, you reminded me of something that I need to talk to you about after you get those reads from John and Frio. Remind me afterwards if you don't hear from me again about it, yeah?

 

[Raziek]

Noted, will do.

 

[Raziek]

T-Block, if you're not on your phone, talk to me. I've got three hours until my next class.

Asking now so I don't forget: J, why do you think Nabe thinks I'm scum?

 

[T-block]

I'm around... looking into the last 50 posts or so atm.

 

[Raziek]

Cool, let me know what you're thinking when you're caught up.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Not really interested in being your Watson right now. I'll be my own Sherlock if that's cool with you.

But are you aware that my policy is to distrust anyone who refuses to be Watson?
Who would you choose for your own Watson?

I suppose. I guess where I take issue is that this is not really something I'm worried about. I'm trying not to be paranoid, but I also just feel more comfortable with J after Pulp Fiction anyway. So, it's not like it's hard. J's not really of very much concern to me right now.

Fair enough, I understand how you'd naturally come into that perspective. But my issue is in the phrasing. Do you agree / do you see from an outside perspective how one could take your words in the way that I did?

Considering the fact that the wagon on you was already basically dead by the time you got here, and that you were never going to get lynched on it anyway, it could be argued that you're being too defensive.

You say "it could be argued" which suggests the attitude of an impartial observer. What do you think about the situation?


Compare John and Frio in this game for me. Or are they the same to you? Feel free to wait until after we have reads from the two of them to answer this, but naturally I expect your perspective from this moment and prior.

 

[T-block]

Holy ****. Frio and John, being opportunistic as all get out right now. So scummy. SO GODDAMN SCUMMY.

I've gotta get to bed, but I'll try to get to some of this **** now.

Seriously though, someone else please tell me they've got their eyes on those two. Like, holy ****.

You.
Are.
Scum.

So you're OMGUS-ing me. Your vote on me doesn't look as innocent as you seem to think it does.

Also, I've hardly actually gone after you so far. You're full of ****. You're piggybacking someone else's opinion and joining a wagon you think is safe. Nothing you've said this entire game rings sincere to me at all. You're not thinking for yourself and you're not thinking critically at all. You're telling town what you think they want to hear, or what you think you'll be able to get away with saying without anybody looking at you too hard for it.

Circus, have you entertained the idea that either of them might be noobtown? You are pushing Frio really hard here, and it feels over the top and not genuine.

Yeah, I'm not liking him. Especially this post:



What this says to me is "I didn't realize I was being attacked (me: how does this happen), but since I am, I'm going to vote the guy pressuring me for the reasons someone else stated." Too bandwagon-y, too OMGUS. Not good. He and John haven't contributed jack. I asked John for information when he was catching up a few days ago and got nothing. These guys are coasting.

Is Frio dumb or scum?

Can we get your updated thoughts on Circus? You said you wanted more from Circus, then said you liked him because of his pressure on John, but were then presented with cases by J and Raziek. Would you be willing to vote him?

I was scum in a broom game and did a big spreadsheet demonstrating a "proven" town win if everyone followed my plan.

I agree. They both jumped on the middle of a bangwagon FAST. Both were basically OMGUS votes. slight scum tell or noobtown tell. I don't know which.

I also want to point out that circus' reaction is too extreme. He's not playing a calm town. I haven't liked how he's floated under the radar without making very significant contributions, so I have a slight scum read on him thus far. Not enough to jump on his wagon yet, but I'd be down with a circus lynch if nothing better arises Day 1. 40% certainty is really all it takes on Day1. If this was a day2 wagon, I'd expect a hell of a lot more on circus before he'd get my vote.

Noted on the spreadsheets.

You are playing it hella safe with that evaluation of the Circus wagon, although I like the point that his reaction seems too extreme. Do you have a stronger read than Circus at the moment?

Raz, this is the type of post that holds me back from trusting TB all the way like you do. I don't like the first two lines of the post because it seems a bit foreced to say that and a little too joking even if he does know Frio IRL. Plus the forewarning is "...." but I'll leave it at that.

Do you see what I am getting at?

J you're breaking my heart </3

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

There's a very strong contrast between Xastrn's play and current DGames play in a lot of cases, which can be challenging to wrap your head around. For example, @T-block, when he calls your advice and breaking of another player's town read on you a town move (418).

In more recent games, players started talking about advice as a way to garner town points as scum. The devil's advocate would argue, in this case, that it's just as viable for you to be scum breaking a player's town reasoning on you but simultaneously establishing another reason for a town read by giving him advice and by him acknowledging that you're challenging that town read, while also creating the possibility for new town reads to form built off of that advice by other players (the read from Xastrn, for example).

How do you feel about Xastrn at the moment? Have you had any trouble reconciling his play with the current metagame?

 

[Overswarm]

Why hasn't solid posted yet

 

[T-block]

How do you feel about Xastrn at the moment? Have you had any trouble reconciling his play with the current metagame?

Contrast with the current metagame is an interesting way to put it, although I'm not sure if it's entirely accurate.

I have been noticing some odd play from Xastrn. First is the buddying of OS and the immediate agreeing with the fallback lynch plan. Then there's been statements such as the one quoted in the post before yours where he looks like he's being overly safe. However, I'm not sure I would label this as metagame differences, and I'm unsure of what to make of all this, and how much weight to put into my conclusions at this point in the game, as I've never played with Dastrn before. As for that town cred comment, I didn't take too much out of it. Obviously it's a silly thing to put any weight in.

Do you have a town read on Xastrn then? You seem to be suggesting that aspects of his play that are "off" can be attributed metagame differences.

 

[T-block]

T-block, your assignment:

Go through J's posts and find where he references Circus, and give us a description of J's move towards calling Circus scummy.

I'll consider it.

I'll consider it harder if you can tell me your true intentions behind the fallback lynch proposal.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I didn't think that it was a good wagon, and any reads on it were essentially useless since it was controversial/badly reasoned enough to make any townie think that it was a bad wagon and disagree with it.

1) Is this really the case? Reasoning, either good or bad, didn't factor into the wagon against you. What the majority of the players in the game saw was a player claiming daycop with a guilty on you. Whether or not some of those players believed it is a different story, but I wouldn't refer to that as reasoning.

2) You say any townie should think that it's a bad wagon. Does that mean you have a scumread on the voters on that wagon, or do you mean that in the present, people should think it was a bad wagon?


Where is Ruy?

 

[Overswarm]

Stop playing the short game T-block.

Look at it this way.

I say something
you say "explain yoself"

I do, and you get to say "I am satisfied" but my previous statement no longer has the same impact it did for whatever reason. If you say "where were you on april 10th" and I say "In disneyland", everyone knows I can't say I was anywhere else later. Likewise, if I ask someone else "where were you on april 10th" and you ask me "why", if I respond "I want to see he is in disneyland" then everyone knows to not respond disneyland. See the different situations those questions are useful? Do you have an actual purpose with that question? Will it answer my alignment for you?

You're doing the same thing with Xastrn. You ever consider that Xastrn buddying me is the norm, and doesn't matter? Or maybe he's doing it deliberately to get reads off of me or maybe even protect himself, since I have a history of not NKilling my buddied town players as scum? You won't know the answer simply by asking; you have to bird watch. But you didn't. Instead you called it out and allowed it to become a "thing", a thing which can be manipulated.

You ever see a cute girl and be like "wow, she's cute" and then she makes eye contact with you, grins, and starts attempting to look more attractive in the way she walks? The situation has changed simply because it is obvious that you are observing it.

Tell me T-block, what am I observing? What have I disturbed?

And why?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Contrast with the current metagame is an interesting way to put it, although I'm not sure if it's entirely accurate.

Is it fair to say then that in some way(s), you don't agree with my comparison of 418 and the current metagame? I don't think I've understood what you mean by accuracy here, otherwise.

I have been noticing some odd play from Xastrn. First is the buddying of OS and the immediate agreeing with the fallback lynch plan. Then there's been statements such as the one quoted in the post before yours where he looks like he's being overly safe. However, I'm not sure I would label this as metagame differences, and I'm unsure of what to make of all this, and how much weight to put into my conclusions at this point in the game, as I've never played with Dastrn before. As for that town cred comment, I didn't take too much out of it. Obviously it's a silly thing to put any weight in.

For sure, but that's just an example of my point. As you've noted here, Xastrn is also very cuddly in his playstyle; there's a lot of extraneous content and overt buddying. I see these as artifacts of a different playstyle.

For example, would a scum player outright buddy players as Xastrn has? It's possible, but I would call it null because it's so absolutely overt, and move on from it. I don't have such an easy time reconciling every other move he's made with what I expect from current play, of course, which is why I was curious if you'd had a similar conflict. In your case, you've noticed it's odd but you don't seem to have assigned any meaning to him yet. Is that correct?

Do you have a town read on Xastrn then? You seem to be suggesting that aspects of his play that are "off" can be attributed metagame differences.

I don't have a satisfying answer to this just yet, but a lot of my thought process is above.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The obligatory flavour bit

Why is race important? I know that it's listed in the role pm, but there's nothing else that signifies it. It could just be a red herring for when a scum gets lynched and race is revealed.

I'm not going to trust flavor until I see more than a couple flips.

Race moves hand-in-hand with character in this gme, and vice versa. In the case of race, we know that a Goron claimant is very likely to be Link-goro, since we're set in Clock Town. Or there might be the Great Fairy, or Tingle (identifies his race as Fairy?) or the Zora manager, the Deku salescrub, the dog. In the opposite sense, if a player claims the Postman we expect his race to be human.

Consequently, it's very likely that we have a town-aligned race cop in this game. As a mod, a race cop would be very appealing for this setup, since it doesn't confirm or deny alignment except in specific cases. Instead it works in tandem with claims in late-game, or sets up the suspicions of the race cop (say, if someone's race is Skull Kid).

 

[T-block]

@T-Block: What are your hard reads so far? I feel like you have been pretty vocal, but not ready to push any reads yet.

In a bit. There's answers I'm waiting on.

@Werekill: Lets pretend RR claims cop guilty result on OS instead of you at the beginning of the day, do you believe RR's claim?

What is the motivation behind this question? What do you hope to gain?

Wait until Werekill answers if you want, but I want to know what you gain from it.

Isn't your flip useful though? If you make a lot of noise and get lynched, that leaves a huge trail for people to follow.

Again, why did you feel the need to include this?

 

[T-block]

@Solid: Stance on dabuz please

 

[T-block]

Stop playing the short game T-block.

Look at it this way.

I say something
you say "explain yoself"

I do, and you get to say "I am satisfied" but my previous statement no longer has the same impact it did for whatever reason. If you say "where were you on april 10th" and I say "In disneyland", everyone knows I can't say I was anywhere else later. Likewise, if I ask someone else "where were you on april 10th" and you ask me "why", if I respond "I want to see he is in disneyland" then everyone knows to not respond disneyland. See the different situations those questions are useful? Do you have an actual purpose with that question? Will it answer my alignment for you?

You're doing the same thing with Xastrn. You ever consider that Xastrn buddying me is the norm, and doesn't matter? Or maybe he's doing it deliberately to get reads off of me or maybe even protect himself, since I have a history of not NKilling my buddied town players as scum? You won't know the answer simply by asking; you have to bird watch. But you didn't. Instead you called it out and allowed it to become a "thing", a thing which can be manipulated.

You ever see a cute girl and be like "wow, she's cute" and then she makes eye contact with you, grins, and starts attempting to look more attractive in the way she walks? The situation has changed simply because it is obvious that you are observing it.

Tell me T-block, what am I observing? What have I disturbed?

And why?

I'm familiar with the idea, thanks. Sometimes, though, the changed behaviour is just as useful as the untainted one.

If you're going to tell me that the entire proposal was intended only to see people's reactions to it, I'm going to say I don't necessarily believe you. I'm not going to gain any information in this aspect from just watching because nobody else is going to bring it up. So, I should bring it up, no?

As for the Xastrn comment, I would have ignored the buddying, but in this case it led Xastrn to support a bad idea, which is going to raise flags. That's already been observed. So, I comment, and from that arises new things to observe.

Make sense?

 

[Overswarm]

Bad idea to you. Maybe it's a good idea?

It's funny. Every time I suggest an idea, whether I know it's a bad idea or not before I do so, the most vocal people rallying against it are always scum.

 

[Raziek]

That's a rather dangerous assumption to make, OS.

 

[Circus]

Ugh. So much to talk about. Will probably be trying to attack this in many different posts.

I've never really been in this situation before. Where I'm getting this much flack from several parties for play that I consider completely normal for myself. It's weird. And I might expect people to raise eyebrows at me if they didn't know me, but getting this from vets who I've not only played with, but played with very recently, is kind of baffling to me.

Give me a second to get at some of this.

 

[Overswarm]

That's a rather dangerous assumption to make, OS.

What assumption?

 

[Raziek]

Every time I suggest an idea, whether I know it's a bad idea or not before I do so, the most vocal people rallying against it are always scum.

This assumption. You seem to imply that those of us who rallied against it are scum.

 

[T-block]

Bad idea to you. Maybe it's a good idea?

It's funny. Every time I suggest an idea, whether I know it's a bad idea or not before I do so, the most vocal people rallying against it are always scum.

looool

It's funny. Every time I see someone suggest a scheme that allows few people to control the lynches of town, the people advocating it are often scum.

 

[Circus]

John actually does have a point with this Circus because so far, it's true.

Yes, I agree that it's true. What's your point? I'm always quick to call people scum. You, of all people, should know this. You played Pulp Fiction. I did exactly the same thing in that game. I did it to Washed, and I was right. I also did it to Choice, and I was wrong. I might be wrong here, again, but you, specifically, should know better than to think this is anything more incriminating than a nulltell.

Solid, I could kiss you for your 415.

So at that point you had a suspicion it was real?

Yes. I think it's pretty clear that, in the post where I ask for Ryu's nameclaim, that I think it could be real, or that Ryu was at least legitimately trying to make a Werekill lynch happen through it.

I agree. They both jumped on the middle of a bangwagon FAST. Both were basically OMGUS votes. slight scum tell or noobtown tell. I don't know which.

I also want to point out that circus' reaction is too extreme. He's not playing a calm town. I haven't liked how he's floated under the radar without making very significant contributions, so I have a slight scum read on him thus far. Not enough to jump on his wagon yet, but I'd be down with a circus lynch if nothing better arises Day 1. 40% certainty is really all it takes on Day1. If this was a day2 wagon, I'd expect a hell of a lot more on circus before he'd get my vote.

Xast, what the hell am I reading? Why am I expected to play "calm town" in order to be town? Especially when I'm at L-2 for what I consider no legitimate reason? The only person who has even given a sincere looking reason by the time of your post is Raziek, and his reason is still really, really weak. You'll forgive me for being a little frustrated by that.

I also flat out do not agree that I've been "floating under the radar without contributing." Sounds like you just borrowed Raz's "slip under the radar" line (which does not have any merit to it) and decided to use it just because you saw him do it.

Read on Frio please

Did you even read my 411? I gave a read on Frio.

What about OS's claim seemed like a legitimate attempt to fake daycop?

The fact that he kept it going even after I told him I knew he was screwing with me, and the fact that we were out of RVS.

So, would you say that OS was attempting to mislead town/ test their reactions with the daycop claim?

Yes. I think everything that OS does can be put into one of those two categories, depending on whether he's town or scum. In fact, I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you that's true.

For everyone's information, this was a response to Werekill. Circus, there was actually a pretty good chance of Werekill getting lynched because of RR's fake claim, if RR didn't state he fake-claimed, the Werekill wagon could of easily went through.

Nope. There's no way a lynch would have gone through that easily and that quickly this early in the game. As has already been discussed, very few of the people on Were's wagon actually even believed Ryu's claim. And if Werekill had actually been hammered that early, the person who hammered him would have been toast on D2 if Werekill is town. Surely even noobs realize that; it's common sense. Werekill was hardly in any real danger.

Who and why?

You think maybe there's a reason that I haven't just blurted them out already? I don't see my town reads being useful to town right now. I'll give 'em to you if I actually end up being the lynch toDay.

Regarding John: Im very on the fence about him, his posts definitely are not good, but they don't smell scummy. He is actually a pretty good dangling worm to bite on because i don't think anyone sees him as town, so certain people *coughCircuscough* can throw a vote on him without getting much attention. I actually want to pay close attention to those whom put on a vote on John.

This paragraph will probably be useful after we have some flips. Everyone jot this down.

Right now, Circus is the most scummy to me, but I am not ready to put him at L-2 this early in the day, soo...
FoS: Circus

I'm already at L-2. But thanks for not putting me in striking distance, I guess.

I'm going to cut this post off here because the next post I'm going to respond to is J's giant 421, which is giving me a headache just looking at it.

 

[Dastrn]

You are playing it hella safe with that evaluation of the Circus wagon, although I like the point that his reaction seems too extreme. Do you have a stronger read than Circus at the moment?

I've stated before that I don't believe Day 1 is a time any of us can be confident in our reads 100%. Of course I should play it safe day 1. I'm not an aggressive player, anyways, and day 1 is the wrong day for confidence. Give me until day 3 and then I promise you'll see some major confidence in my analysis.

With that said, I think the circus lynch is most likely the best plan for the day that I've seen yet. I always enjoy the silly banter and fake claims and joke votes and half-serious accusations that come out of the first 48 hours of Day 1. The reason is because if you're smart, you won't take much of it serious, and will take note of reactions instead. Circus' reaction to this heat (which was a good day 1 case to build, and a weak day 2-> case) has been scummy, in my eyes. It's been a very emotionally driven "W/e you are all scum jerks" reaction instead of a cool and collected reaction. I would generally expect circus to reaction more cool, so something's fishy with his reaction IMO.

With all of that said, no I don't have any stronger scum reads than Circus, but I still only think it's like 40% certain he's scum. 40% is a strong day 1 lynch candidate. The only other good candidates that have arisen thus far, if you ask me, are werekill, John, Frio, and Dabuz. I won't give you my strongest town reads right now because town lists are NK lists in the hands of scum.

 

[Overswarm]

This assumption. You seem to imply that those of us who rallied against it are scum.

Now who's assuming?

looool

It's funny. Every time I see someone suggest a scheme that allows few people to control the lynches of town, the people advocating it are often scum.

Name 'em.

 

[Xastrn]

I've stated before that I don't believe Day 1 is a time any of us can be confident in our reads 100%. Of course I should play it safe day 1. I'm not an aggressive player, anyways, and day 1 is the wrong day for confidence. Give me until day 3 and then I promise you'll see some major confidence in my analysis.

With that said, I think the circus lynch is most likely the best plan for the day that I've seen yet. I always enjoy the silly banter and fake claims and joke votes and half-serious accusations that come out of the first 48 hours of Day 1. The reason is because if you're smart, you won't take much of it serious, and will take note of reactions instead. Circus' reaction to this heat (which was a good day 1 case to build, and a weak day 2-> case) has been scummy, in my eyes. It's been a very emotionally driven "W/e you are all scum jerks" reaction instead of a cool and collected reaction. I would generally expect circus to reaction more cool, so something's fishy with his reaction IMO.

With all of that said, no I don't have any stronger scum reads than Circus, but I still only think it's like 40% certain he's scum. 40% is a strong day 1 lynch candidate. The only other good candidates that have arisen thus far, if you ask me, are werekill, John, Frio, and Dabuz. I won't give you my strongest town reads right now because town lists are NK lists in the hands of scum.

did it again. sorry again. I'm at work, and my work computer auto logs me in as Dastrn.

 

[Overswarm]

did it again. sorry again. I'm at work, and my work computer auto logs me in as Dastrn.

use a separate browser, it's what I do

 

[Circus]

Actually, I don't even want to touch that 421. It's not worth the time it would eat. Moving on to John, since that seems to be one of the problems people have with me anyway.

 

[Raziek]

Every time I suggest an idea, whether I know it's a bad idea or not before I do so, the most vocal people rallying against it are always scum.

Now who's assuming?

Don't play the fool, OS.

Someone orders Pizza next to you.

You say to nobody in particular "Everyone I've known who likes Pizza is an *******."

It's direct implication that you're calling them an *******. Same situation here.

 

[Raziek]

Actually, I don't even want to touch that 421. It's not worth the time it would eat. Moving on to John, since that seems to be one of the problems people have with me anyway.

If you don't touch it, we're going to string you up, because all you've got to defend yourself is self-meta and "It's really weak."

 

[Raziek]

Blah. The asterisks are the profane word for butthole.