Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[FlamingForce]

I couldn't find anything in the guide on how to deal with sheik spamming bair, that **** is better then ours! ):

 

[-LzR-]

I was playing with Novi not too long ago with Puff vs Sheik and I had the exact same problem. He taught me some important things how to deal with it.

Sheiks bair hitbox is tilted slightly upwards so if you do low bairs with good spacing they can't challenge it with their own bair as their jump and the upwards angle causes it to miss. This is really important to keep in mind. Your bair requires exact spacing, but once you master it Sheiks bair has no chance against our bair. Once they realize this they will most likely start to shield more. That's when you go and grab them.
Oh and when low to the ground remember to do your bair while moving away. Our bair is not a Fox nair that is really safe to use on shield at close ranges. It needs to be spaced well and we have the best air mobility in the game for a reason.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Although it would be awesome if Puff shffl -> down-B was as good at shield pressure as Fox's. 249 frames of shieldstun seems appropriate, right?

 

[-LzR-]

A jump cancellable downB please?

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

I couldn't find anything in the guide on how to deal with sheik spamming bair, that **** is better then ours! ):

Stay low and out of sheik range to force her to enter the air or attempt a dangerous grab. Sheik's short hop is pretty high of a jump and is easy to get under and punish with up air juggles. Pounding under the back-air (downward angled air pound) works amazingly well because sheik cannot do much after initiating her back-air. Punish the living crap out of Sheik if she makes a poor back-air so she will be afraid to back-air against you.

 

[Sagacious]

Stay low and out of sheik range to force her to enter the air or attempt a dangerous grab. Sheik's short hop is pretty high of a jump and is easy to get under and punish with up air juggles. Pounding under the back-air (downward angled air pound) works amazingly well because sheik cannot do much after initiating her back-air. Punish the living crap out of Sheik if she makes a poor back-air so she will be afraid to back-air against you.

Word, that's what I've been doing against Sheiks that attempt to copy Puff's bair game. It just doesn't work. All you have to do is space Jigglypuff away from them in the air kind of copying the Sheik's air momentum. Then right at the end of Sheik's bair once she sinks towards the ground you can slip in a quick bair with Puff. This forces Sheik to stay on the ground where Puff also has the advantage. Love it.

 

[MaPow]

Word, that's what I've been doing against Sheiks that attempt to copy Puff's bair game. It just doesn't work. All you have to do is space Jigglypuff away from them in the air kind of copying the Sheik's air momentum. Then right at the end of Sheik's bair once she sinks towards the ground you can slip in a quick bair with Puff. This forces Sheik to stay on the ground where Puff also has the advantage. Love it.

and sheik has no punish game really. i usually go balls to the wall against sheik in terms of rest because she can't punish very hard (and you can crouch rest most of her grounded approaches of course), and uair usually leads to rest. You can also force her to recover on stage and punish with a rest, but just try to focus on not getting hit by her up-b.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Sheik's recovery is so easy, just put your back to the ledge and wd ledgegrab as soon as you see her start it. Take the rest when it will KO, but if they get too far onstage, just get up there and throw them back offstage.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW-kTi80dtc&feature=youtu.be
This doesn't seem to be a true combo but it looks like short of a powershield, this should hit? Falcon can't tech and I don't know if he has the time to raise his shield. I feel like it might be worthwhile to attempt.

I know there are some true uthrow rest combos on captain falcon at higher %s than zero, is there any place that groups up the rest combo data?

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I've never managed to land a rest off of any sort of uthrow combo vs. Falcon at 0%. I've gotten uthrow ->uair -> rest on Foxes at 0%, pretty sure it can work on Falco too although the timing is tighter.

PS I use buffer shield + C-up to jump after uthrows, I think that delays by 1 frame but it's consistent. For uairs, I buffer Control Stick up during the jump animation and use A to uair.

EDIT: After my internet allowed me to actually watch the video instead of just the title, I see that Falcon recovers from his hitstun animation before landing. That's why he can't tech, but it also means he can jump or air dodge or possibly aerial before hitting the ground. Plus, he could probably survive the rest with good DI on many stages.

If it's any consolation, I think you are correct that his shield is too slow if he just regular lands and buffers it. If he wavelands, all bets are off.

My guess is you'd have better luck vs. a real player if you tried for an utilt after the uair, which is safer, covers more options, and can combo into rest.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

I started to attempt it on some computers and I think there were just too many opportunities to DI out anyway. I knew the hitstun wore off because of the combo counter going to 1, but I didn't know if Falcon could do anything before rest came out. All of falcons actions have startup frames, so I felt like that's psuedo-hitstun. I don't feel like this will be viable much but I don't know if I'd be expressly opposed to giving it a try if they don't DI uthrow or uair. Maybe Falcons jump would kill it. It's probably not safe but if I'll give it a whirl in friendlies to see specifically what happens. They'll probably just jump I guess, if they use an aerial I'd be fine with not getting hit by a more devastating punish. It feels like a situation of the Risk vs the Reward and, from what you say, the reward isn't usually worth it anyway. So I guess that's that.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Practicing combos on CPUs is typically a bad idea because they suck at DI and c-c-c-combo-breakers. If Falcon DIs bad and doesn't jump out before the rest, you still need to be fast enough to beat nair (7 frame startup) and uair (6 frames). I'm no frame expert, but I am an ex-Falcon main and first-hit l-cancel nair combos into grab -> dthrow -> knee and uair grabs at stage control and can combo into more aerials. And that's the best-case scenario combo-breaker. Worst case is he jumps out and PAWNCHes you in the sleepyface.

Believe me when I say I go for balls-in jank when I think some combination of character stupidity and player stupidity will let me. My joy in life is jabbing/grabbing/resting Foxes and Falcos out of Illusions and tilting them out of their upB. I sneak in ac nair rests, usmashes oos, and empty jump utilts like you won't believe. So I encourage you to use your uthrow -> uair -> rest in the same situations where I use my jank: when I'm two stocks ahead.

 

[MaPow]

Question: when resting samus's dsmash OoS, can you still pull it off if you shield the second hitbox?

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

I've never managed to land a rest off of any sort of uthrow combo vs. Falcon at 0%. I've gotten uthrow ->uair -> rest on Foxes at 0%, pretty sure it can work on Falco too although the timing is tighter.

PS I use buffer shield + C-up to jump after uthrows, I think that delays by 1 frame but it's consistent. For uairs, I buffer Control Stick up during the jump animation and use A to uair.

EDIT: After my internet allowed me to actually watch the video instead of just the title, I see that Falcon recovers from his hitstun animation before landing. That's why he can't tech, but it also means he can jump or air dodge or possibly aerial before hitting the ground. Plus, he could probably survive the rest with good DI on many stages.

If it's any consolation, I think you are correct that his shield is too slow if he just regular lands and buffers it. If he wavelands, all bets are off.

My guess is you'd have better luck vs. a real player if you tried for an utilt after the uair, which is safer, covers more options, and can combo into rest.

Down throw rest can work on Falcon at any percent, but is DI dependent, while being easier to hit than an up throw rest on Falcon.

 

[MaPow]

Down throw rest can work on Falcon at any percent, but is DI dependent, while being easier to hit than an up throw rest on Falcon.

Well you aren't ever really going to be able to pull off either of those rests on good falcons. The best way to rest falcon is crouching under his grab or uptilting when he tries to stomp. And when I get a grab i usually throw him offstage or upthrow->uair->bairs all the way off stage to hopefully get a KO

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Question: when resting samus's dsmash OoS, can you still pull it off if you shield the second hitbox?

Samus's dsmash is IASA 31 frames after the 2nd hit comes out.

Puff experiences 15 frames of shieldstun from a non-staled hit. <-- That is according to the Samus forums, you can calculate it by SHLDSTUN = int( (DMG+4.45)/2.235 ), where "int" means round down to nearest integer.
Puff's jump puts her airborne at frame 6.
Puff's landlag is 4 frames.
Rest comes out on frame 1.

Jump into rest:
15 frames of shieldstun + 6 frames to jump + 1 frame to rest = 22 frames
Thus, you have 31 - 22 = 9 frames to line up the rest. Prob possible with good shield DI, but it's pretty tight.

Wavedash into rest:
15 frames of shieldstun + 6 frames to jump + 1 frame to wavedash + 4 frames of landlag + 1 frame to rest = 27 frames
Thus, you have 31 - 27 = 4 frames of leeway on the wd to rest. Still takes good shield DI, but overall probably easier.

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

Samus's dsmash is IASA 31 frames after the 2nd hit comes out.

Puff experiences 15 frames of shieldstun from a non-staled hit. <-- That is according to the Samus forums, you can calculate it by SHLDSTUN = int( (DMG+4.45)/2.235 ), where "int" means round down to nearest integer.
Puff's jump puts her airborne at frame 6.
Puff's landlag is 4 frames.
Rest comes out on frame 1.

Jump into rest:
15 frames of shieldstun + 6 frames to jump + 1 frame to rest = 22 frames
Thus, you have 31 - 22 = 9 frames to line up the rest. Prob possible with good shield DI, but it's pretty tight.

Wavedash into rest:
15 frames of shieldstun + 6 frames to jump + 1 frame to wavedash + 4 frames of landlag + 1 frame to rest = 27 frames
Thus, you have 31 - 27 = 4 frames of leeway on the wd to rest. Still takes good shield DI, but overall probably easier.

Thanks for the frame data, and shield-stun information!

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Does nobody know about this? I literally have the equations for shieldstun and hitlag programmed into my graphing calculator from college.

Also, I think the Samus forums were wrong. A 15 frame shieldstun only results from a hit of 29% to 31%. I don't have a cube next to me, but I'm guessing the 2nd hit of Samus's dsmash does at most 18% ~ 22%, which is 10~11 frames of shieldstun. So, if I'm right, you actually have 4~5 more frames in both scenarios than I put earlier.

Also also, every character forum has a frame data thread in it. It's useful stuff.

 

[MaPow]

Samus's dsmash is IASA 31 frames after the 2nd hit comes out.

Puff experiences 15 frames of shieldstun from a non-staled hit. <-- That is according to the Samus forums, you can calculate it by SHLDSTUN = int( (DMG+4.45)/2.235 ), where "int" means round down to nearest integer.
Puff's jump puts her airborne at frame 6.
Puff's landlag is 4 frames.
Rest comes out on frame 1.

Jump into rest:
15 frames of shieldstun + 6 frames to jump + 1 frame to rest = 22 frames
Thus, you have 31 - 22 = 9 frames to line up the rest. Prob possible with good shield DI, but it's pretty tight.

Wavedash into rest:
15 frames of shieldstun + 6 frames to jump + 1 frame to wavedash + 4 frames of landlag + 1 frame to rest = 27 frames
Thus, you have 31 - 27 = 4 frames of leeway on the wd to rest. Still takes good shield DI, but overall probably easier.

why do you think the wavedash to rest is easier??

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Sorry if my statement wasn't clear. Wavedashing into rest gives you 4 frames of leeway. This means you can be 4 frames slow on those actions and still get the rest. Jumping into rest gives you 9 frames to line yourself up for the rest. If you are 9 frames slow, you will not get the rest. If you are 4 frames slow, then 5 frames might not be enough to get yourself lined up and you might not get the rest.

I guess I'm saying that jumping into rest requires quick fingers combined with precise air control, whereas wavedashing to rest only requires quick fingers because the wavedash basically does the spacing for you. If you are a perfect player, jumping into rest is probably easier. But wavedashing into rest gives you, the human, fewer opportunities to mess up and still gets the job done.

tl;dr Same reason why buffering shield + roll is easier even tho it is a frame slower than just rolling on the first possible frame.

SUPER EDIT:

I actually suspect that wd -> rest gives you 9 frames of leeway and jump -> rest gives you 14 frames to line up the rest. So, with good shield DI, both are probably relatively easy with practice. I remember my Falcon days when I realized I could safely knee that move oos ...

 

[the wizard howl]

alright
so let's say I hypothetically got 3 stocked on my CP by a falco's surprise pocket DK
what hypothetically should I look for next time?

 

[FerrishTheFish]

This guy:

This guy:

And this guy:

I am not even kidding you, I play a pretty decent DK for no reason other than because people constantly underestimate the power of these three moves. Grounded upB is a KO move and can be oos. Airborne upB can still KO or just interrupt moves and be annoying. Midair Punch-canceled reversals can get those bairs or upBs if the other guy can't see them coming. Don't try to beat his aerials, just focus on baiting, outspacing, and countering. Trading with DK is bad bad bad, and his hitboxes are surprisingly good--his uair hitbox would make a unicorn blush, and his bair isn't too shabby either.

But DK's hurtbox is stupidly, inexplicably huge. You can shield-poke him really easily with dair or utilt. If you get under him, he's free uair fodder. It's relatively easy to combo him into rest %'s and combo into rest. He has a lot of trouble dealing with crouchy wavedashy Puff. I personally would consider just crouching and wavedashing for the first few seconds of the match, just to see if (and how) he will try to deal with that later on in the match.

I honestly think this MU is pretty free for Puff, but it takes patience and strategy. You can't get in his face and expect to win.

 

[the wizard howl]

he would sit on the platform and focus on netting damage from fallthrough bairs and upBs when applicable.
From what I remember it played out similarly to when I play peach on a bad day, I just took way too much chip damage and got flustered not knowing how to convert my hits.

 

[MaPow]

SUPER EDIT:

I actually suspect that wd -> rest gives you 9 frames of leeway and jump -> rest gives you 14 frames to line up the rest. So, with good shield DI, both are probably relatively easy with practice. I remember my Falcon days when I realized I could safely knee that move oos ...

Yea that makes sense because i can usually do it pretty consistantly, i guess my shield DI wasnt very good the times i missed because i couldnt get over to her fast enough.

 

[MaPow]

for DK, its tough to KO him so you'll want to focus on resting. And like ferrish said shield poking with uptilt and getting under DK with your uairs is the best way to do that, and since his bair has more range than yours, try to bait him out while grounded. Puff's ground movement is important in this MU and many other MU's like vs marth and sheik.

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

alright
so let's say I hypothetically got 3 stocked on my CP by a falco's surprise pocket DK
what hypothetically should I look for next time?

Do the denti brawl, start, get the percent lead and stock lead then avoid the shizzzzWiz out of Dk until he gives you a chance to rest, then proceed to rest.

 

[Mahone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW-kTi80dtc&feature=youtu.be
This doesn't seem to be a true combo but it looks like short of a powershield, this should hit? Falcon can't tech and I don't know if he has the time to raise his shield. I feel like it might be worthwhile to attempt.

I know there are some true uthrow rest combos on captain falcon at higher %s than zero, is there any place that groups up the rest combo data?

just from watching that vid, a real falcon would jump out 9/10, but u can just read that and jump with them or catch their jump with an upair and rest or do other stuff


dude at rom4 i was playing amazing, i ***** everyone in my pool except m2k and then won a couple winners things and lost to hax, and then i was so pumped to run through losers cuz i was still playing amazing and i lost to kwan, some dk player, but i have no johns, he just straight up wrecked me with all that stuff u listed above lol, dk TOOO good

 

[FlamingForce]

I'm just gonna leave this here in hopes that someone will give me some advice cos it aint happening in my marth thread.

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

Against Dk, stay above or below him, NEVER be on the same level as DK because he deals massive damage with every attack

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I'm just gonna leave this here in hopes that someone will give me some advice cos it aint happening in my marth thread.

First impressions are that you go airborne too much. Now, airborne isn't necessarily bad in terms of the Marth MU, but you can't play against the MU, you have to play against the player. It's not about what's good or bad, it's about what works or doesn't work. So you always have to ask yourself things like, "Why am I losing stocks? Why is he landing these hits?" and against this Marth, he landed lots of hits hits and got below you a lot when you went airborne.

It seemed like you were alternating between two extremes, which were being impatient and approaching when you didn't have to, or being too scared to to get in even when he gave you openings. But you also definitely had your moments like the middle of the 2nd match where you were staying far enough to not get hit but close enough to punish. Tight spacing like that might be your best bet against this Marth because he seems really swingy, but it wouldn't hurt to mix in some CCing or shielding (non-tipper) attacks, then aerial after to punish Marth's bad cooldown lag.

You also seemed to have difficulties with recovering and edgeguarding. Puff is not the kind of edgeguarder that has to quickly throw out moves before the opponent can react. Obviously, mix-ups are good, but speed is generally less important than spacing that perfect hit (that's also true against Fox, because his upB has so much startup and you don't want to get burned). You can totally just float in front of them so they get scared and try to dodge/counter the aerial they think is coming, but instead you wait and aerial them afterwards. Marth-killer edgehog works well too.

When recovering, it's usually best to do the rising pound farther away from the stage. That keeps you safer and means you have more options when you do approach the stage. Also note that Puff's air speed increases if you aerial immediately after a midair jump.

 

[MaPow]

I'm just gonna leave this here in hopes that someone will give me some advice cos it aint happening in my marth thread.

You really need to work on spacing marth while grounded, edgeguarding marth, and DIing marth's hits AWAAAAYYYYY

You didn't seem to have any sort of ground game. Against marth, puff is is a lot safer on the ground. Practice wavedashing and dashdancing around with puff to get space and force marth to throw out a fair or commit then punish with a bair, fair, or grab. And since you're grounded and wavedashing around, its easy to be constantly in your crouch animation, this is great because you can CC marth's dash attack (and basically all of his moves at early percents if they aren't tippered) and crouch under his JC grab (or dash grab if he doesn't space it perfectly). So basically puff can shut down all of Marth's grounded approaches, and you need to take advantage of that. Also, marth's fsmash can be punished every time if you just shield it then fair OoS. So establish your neutral game and make Marth scared to throw out moves, then you can use your bair to force him into bad situations (near off-stage or off-stage).

Once you get Marth offstage, your first focus should be to take his second jump. If the Marth is smart, he should forward b until he's below the stage. If you can hit marth with a bair in between his forward b's thats great if not then just stay on the edge and wait. You want to keep regaining your invulnerability so you can force Marth to either try to sweetspot and fall to his death or up b onstage and get rested or grabbed. it takes practice to time this perfectly, hungrybox does a great job of doing this to marths.

(3rd game m2k goes marth) his other matches against the moon are also great to watch because they show hbox's great ground game as well as his edge-guarding.

If marth hits you with a soft fair, you want to DI down and away as much as you can to avoid getting hit anymore. As much as you want to fade back in and try to hit marth after he hits you in the air, you shouldn't. just get out of there and get the game back to neutral. As for the fthrow/dthrow->tipper, http://smashboards.com/threads/kadano’s-perfect-marth-class—advanced-frame-data-application.337035/ Go to the jigglypuff section, it's a very detailed description of the sort of gamble you have to make in order to avoid marths tipper fsmash.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

Trouble fighting Falcon and Marth. My own analysis states that I probably need to mix in a bit more uairs against the both of them, and that I need to be grabbing the ledge more against Marth. Actually, I think my problem was the same as FlamingForces, so I'm just going to follow that advice for the edgeguarding. It's really helpful. Still, could use help of my own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsxLfW-BxcI falcon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8lYu8xra1U marth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeR0G4klMT4 marth

Also, I was looking at this Hbox set for information and I notice 30 seconds in something I hadn't seen before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akBgo0Wa424 I assume it only works when they up-b early?

 

[MaPow]

Trouble fighting Falcon and Marth. My own analysis states that I probably need to mix in a bit more uairs against the both of them, and that I need to be grabbing the ledge more against Marth. Actually, I think my problem was the same as FlamingForces, so I'm just going to follow that advice for the edgeguarding. It's really helpful. Still, could use help of my own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsxLfW-BxcI falcon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8lYu8xra1U marth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeR0G4klMT4 marth

Also, I was looking at this Hbox set for information and I notice 30 seconds in something I hadn't seen before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akBgo0Wa424 I assume it only works when they up-b early?

If you have enough time you can always punish marth's up b onstage.

I'm just gonna list some of my thoughts after watching parts of the falcon match

- just like against marth, you should utilize puff's spacing on the ground, even though falcon is fast, if you're crouching there's not much he can do besides stomp.

- that being said, if you begin to read stomps or other aerial approaches, you can punish with a well timed utilt which can easily lead to rest or other deadly combos (uair combos/bair combos)

- i like to space falcon out with WoP and SH bairs then when i land, i mix it up with either another WoP, an utilt, a turn-around grab, or a crouch.

- you can punish falcon's up-b landing lag just like marth's, as well as his forward b OoS.

- uair is pretty deadly against most of the cast, it's one of my favorite moves in the game and against cfalc, you can string them together, combo into rest, or combo into those bairs. Although the move can be punished unless used wisely. I like to use bair to pressure the opponent, then surprise them with a falling uair. uair can also be used to pressure when someone is on a platform above you.

 

[the wizard howl]

has anyone figured out how drill knocking people into the flippy restable animation works yet?
I have my suspicion but am probably wrong.

 

[Bones0]

has anyone figured out how drill knocking people into the flippy restable animation works yet?
I have my suspicion but am probably wrong.

There's a thread about it, but I forget what the title is.

 

[FlamingForce]

There's a thread about it, but I forget what the title is.

http://smashboards.com/threads/drill-rest.113022/

 

[the wizard howl]

% range is not the same as knowing how it works
guess I'll test a bit and see if I can prove hypothesis

 

[FerrishTheFish]

The flippy animation is the result of being hit by a spike. It happens at certain %'s for example when trying to CC Falco's dair--in fact, it is the exact reason why many players say that true spikes cannot be CC'd. The last hit of Puff's dair is a weak spike, so at certain %'s it results in the flippy animation.

EDIT: After much time in the 1/4-speed Training Mode, I have determined that the 1st, 3rd, 7th, and 8th hits of the dair (out of 8 total) can result in the flippy animation. None of them seem to be 100% reliable, but for some reason hitting the lower hurtboxes seems to make a higher success rate (practicing against Falcon).

EDIT: I have now managed to get the flippy animation on Falcon with every hit except the 4th, so I'm concluding that actually every hit of the dair can get the flippy animation. Each hit of the dair has 2 hitboxes, and it's possible that only one of them is a spike. My guess is the lower one, but I have yet to prove that to even myself. Another possibility is that it is luck-based, but I think that is unlikely because I can get the flippy animation with a SHFFL'd 1st hit on Falcon every time. In fact, the 1st hit seems most consistent and safest.

 

[MaPow]

The flippy animation is the result of being hit by a spike. It happens at certain %'s for example when trying to CC Falco's dair--in fact, it is the exact reason why many players say that true spikes cannot be CC'd. The last hit of Puff's dair is a weak spike, so at certain %'s it results in the flippy animation.

EDIT: After much time in the 1/4-speed Training Mode, I have determined that the 1st, 3rd, 7th, and 8th hits of the dair (out of 8 total) can result in the flippy animation. None of them seem to be 100% reliable, but for some reason hitting the lower hurtboxes seems to make a higher success rate (practicing against Falcon).

EDIT: I have now managed to get the flippy animation on Falcon with every hit except the 4th, so I'm concluding that actually every hit of the dair can get the flippy animation. Each hit of the dair has 2 hitboxes, and it's possible that only one of them is a spike. My guess is the lower one, but I have yet to prove that to even myself. Another possibility is that it is luck-based, but I think that is unlikely because I can get the flippy animation with a SHFFL'd 1st hit on Falcon every time. In fact, the 1st hit seems most consistent and safest.

don't you have to get the "filppy animation" in order to dair->upsmash and dair->grab?

 

[FerrishTheFish]

don't you have to get the "filppy animation" in order to dair->upsmash and dair->grab?

Yes, because you have to get that animation to land the Rest, and the Rest is faster than either of those.

I think we need a more informative name than "flippy animation," preferably something about getting spiked. I'm going to propose "spikestun" for the time being.

I was able to consistently spikestun with the 1st hit of the dair at 60% on every character I have tested. I haven't explored the % windows for the different characters (mainly because Netflix has new Pokemon episodes hey-o) but phanna's numbers are probably accurate.

Thus far, my tests are still showing me that the 1st hit is the most consistent spikestunner. Plus, fewer hits means less chance to SDI out of Rest/grab/usmash, and it makes a deadly mixup with tomahawk.