Mafia Sleepover: The Finale [ Town Wins - Pokemon Sight seeing]

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

@#HBC | Zen

Why did Murderbushscum not use Protean's tunneling of you D1 to secure your mislynch?

Not sure why you assume he would. Browny is the strategy he's seemed to have chosen for this game. That would have been out of character. Plus in a game with me, you, inferno, gova, protean, and j he doesn't have a lot of lee way to make nonsensical pushes. Why put himself out there when there were was so much mis lynch potential by town own its own?

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

@ Dramatic Flair
@ #HBC | Leviathan

Convince me on why Potassium is town then. That would be helpful.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

Not sure why you assume he would. Browny is the strategy he's seemed to have chosen for this game. That would have been out of character. Plus in a game with me, you, inferno, gova, protean, and j he doesn't have a lot of lee way to make nonsensical pushes. Why put himself out there when there were was so much mis lynch potential by town own its own?

Take it in context of Day 1. Who was running the show?

Protean and Murderbush. Murderbush actually attacked the former because he had made a case on you early in the game. Gova and J were nonfactors; the former barely a presence and the latter content to watch the game and tell everybody that he planned on doing nothing. Inferno has not had much force this game to begin with, and half of this Town wanted me dead on D1. You alluded to Murderbush having success with pushing your mislynch in past games; the point at which Protean made a case on you would be opportune for him to swing into the thread and join him with little consequence.

I want you to actually think about why Bunzy was constantly on Murderbush's side against me early in the game and why Werekill consistently called him Town which he did with you [Town], me [Town], and JeXs [Town]. Why does Murderbush try so hard to strongarm my lynch over Bunzy when a successful Bunzy lynch damns him the way it does? It lacked all the subtlety that scumteams have. The behavior of the flipped scum very obviously point to Murderbush being unaligned with them not only from a meta standpoint but from a strategic one as well. I am shocked that he has received the negative attention he has and think too much stock is being put into the Bunzy flip. I will go ahead and point out that Werekill used that to throw some suspicion onto the slot then later reneged that suspicion while others were pushing him yesterDay. Tell me that Werekill was not scum trying to earn points on a Murderbush town flip as opposed to defending his buddy so openly to such high risk which is completely inconsistent with how he treated his other buddy.

Tell me, how are you reading BarDulL, Arcane, and Gova? You really think that Arcane and BarDulL are both Town?

 

[Gova]

i cant really agree with that; scummates can flop because they have trouble reading the town and not knowing whether or not they should bus or just town read their mates so town is less inclined to go in that direction

and likewise

where's the strategy for bardull hammering dabuz out of nowhere; wouldnt meta wise as a scum team they would have planned for bardull to die and allow dabuz to live for two more phases due to his claim?

and why would gheb hammer werekill out of nowhere as well? he could have just let me die as you and jexs were more than willing to lynch either of us; pretty sure that was near end of deadline too so a switch could have been likely if that was the case

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Good points. I've seen Ryker play the same way in Hunter x Hunter though.

 

[Gova]

@ BarDulL

do you actually think murder is scum? it seems like you're implying he's not town and just leveraging for position but it looks like you dont want to commit to calling him scum

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

1.] i cant really agree with that; scummates can flop because they have trouble reading the town and not knowing whether or not they should bus or just town read their mates so town is less inclined to go in that direction

and likewise

2.] where's the strategy for bardull hammering dabuz out of nowhere; wouldnt meta wise as a scum team they would have planned for bardull to die and allow dabuz to live for two more phases due to his claim?

3.] and why would gheb hammer werekill out of nowhere as well? he could have just let me die as you and jexs were more than willing to lynch either of us; pretty sure that was near end of deadline too so a switch could have been likely if that was the case

1.] This ignores Bunzy riding Murderbush's coattails and Werekill's read on Murderbush staying Town being consistent with how he treated players we now know to be Town. Werekill could have easily gotten away with throwing Murderbush into the null pile along with you, BarDulL, and Arcane but chose not to for a specific reason.

2.] Remember how Murderbush pointed out how odd it was for Werekill to vote Bunzy at the time he did near the end of D2 and using that as evidence for a disconnect? We have evidence that at least 1 of the scummates were willing to bus another so why not another? The conversation in the quicktopic may have had them talking about how they would look of different alignments on a flip.

3.] Have a look at post #2545. I literally had to ask Arcane to vote Werekill due to his tunneling of Murderbush. I guess he could have banked on a switch past Werekill, but is that really a reason to Town read him? I really do not care for specific instances of how scum treated one another; I think that is easily misinterpreted and would rather focus on the bigger picture of how slots have played.

4.] Amidamaru, you have seen Ryker play the same way regardless of his alignment. He is loud, barely willing to compromise his top pick, and good at getting lynches due to how weak, soft, and easily manipulated the majority of Townies are. How you are taking his approach here in itself as anything more than null is beyond me. Finally, your push on Potassium may have merit but I will worry about that should Arcane <-> BarDulL not be the end.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kantrip has referred to that incident as well I believe. Simply put, nobody should read anything into me hammering Werekill because I've made it ample clear that the only other viable lynch - Gova - was not an option to me. It should neither give me town credit, nor should it serve as a lame excuse to accuse me of bussing like Kantrip does.

 

[BarDulL]

@ BarDulL

do you actually think murder is scum? it seems like you're implying he's not town and just leveraging for position but it looks like you dont want to commit to calling him scum

I really do think they're leveraging for positioning, and I really didn't like the knee-jerk reaction from their slot towards me (because it just proves further that they've been wrong a ton). I'm willing to compromise to them, however they aren't my first choice. Gheb is still my first choice. MB would be second.

 

[BarDulL]

Gheb, you hammered before we could continue discussion towards going in other places when you were at L-2 (and momentum was not swinging towards you or about to or anything like that.) I just think it's wonky decision making on your end to abruptly hammer Werekill and then say "Gova was not an option to me, so consequently Werekill had to die" when that isn't necessarily an implication that you had to kill off Werekill (I'm pretty sure we still had plenty to talk about, and I was considering alternative options as opposed to an AI lynch.) You still had other options available, like pushing in other avenues (presumably your scum read on my slot for instance, or towards MB.) That being said, Kantrip and I saying you were bussing the slot for credit is not outside the scope of reality. If Werekill had flipped Town, you surely would have been off'd next most likely as a result, and yet there wasn't any hesitance to finish him off. I just don't buy it.


On another note, I'm going to be V/LA until August 16th/17th on account of moving in.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If Werekill had flipped Town, you surely would have been off'd next most likely as a result

Says who?

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Gheb, who is scum at this point in the game?

 

[Kantrip]

Gheb loves cherry picking

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, who is scum at this point in the game?

Bardull / Murder > Kantrip

 

[BarDulL]

Oh, excuse me, GOVA was at L-2, not Arcane. Early morning shenanigans. Kinda furthers my point though.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Hmm. Thinking Gheb may indeed be scum. I think I got distracted.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Do you not see why we've just wanted to say "**** it!'?

I can understand your frustration D3 with us. I was lazy. Yet I think you need to understand our frustration dating from D1. Me and Zen had mostly right scumreads as a hydra (werekill/dabuz) but so much things has pulled away from obv scum. So excuse me if we and you have friction.

Even so, I'm still trying to re-evaluate.

 

[Kantrip]

So Bardull and Gheb have mirrored scum lists. They want each other and Murder dead with me as a tertiary pick if that doesn't end the game.

Murder wants both of them dead, with Gova as a tertiary.

Ami wants neither of them dead, and wants Murder and myself, with Levi of all people as tertiary.

If I remember correctly, Levi wants Bardull with Gheb and Gova as secondaries.

Ami and Levi are our not-mafia slots, and one of them will be killed toNight with our doc dead. Most likely Levi.

Personally I would advocate lynching Gheb first. If that doesn't end the game, and assuming Levi's death, we go Bardull next. If the game still continues, we will be in a 3-man LyLo with 3 of myself, Gova, Ami, and Murder. This will either be Ami as a swing vote between 2 people, or a LyLo of Gova, Murder, and me.

Neither of those are necessarily terrible scenarios. Having Bardull or Gheb in LyLo would be.

Personally I'd lynch Murder if it came to that LyLo

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Hey Kantrip. A while ago you mentioned that Arcane Inferno's post about Levi's claim was sort of grimy. At the top of your head, could you tell me why that was?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kinda furthers my point though.

How so?

 

[BarDulL]

I'm a PR that can verify my ability use toNight, so there won't be a need to lynch me. I'm kinda saying this because I'd rather be killed n4 before school starts (August 19th), and it's not an especially strong PR.

Gheb, your MO for hammering Werekill is currently intangible and makes no sense. There was no clear dire need to do it. If you had been at L-2 or L-1, I could see you getting desperate and hammering, but it literally came out of nowhere. I think it's more plausible that you were trying to take some credit for the WK lynch.

 

[Gova]

do we still want bardull to claim btw?

 

[Gova]

o ninjad lol

 

[Gova]

my question would be why havent you verified it sooner

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kantrip has referred to that incident as well I believe. Simply put, nobody should read anything into me hammering Werekill because I've made it ample clear that the only other viable lynch - Gova - was not an option to me. It should neither give me town credit, nor should it serve as a lame excuse to accuse me of bussing like Kantrip does.

Does this looks like I'm trying to take credit for it @ BarDulL ?!? I'm explicitly warning you people to NOT give me pro-town credit for hammering Werekill and you accuse me of trying to go for it the next post -.-

 

[Gova]

and by sooner i mean last night

 

[BarDulL]

my question would be why havent you verified it sooner

You've been making curious inquiries as of late. Do you suspect me or think I'm scum?

But yes, there's a reason for that.

 

[Kantrip]

Hey Kantrip. A while ago you mentioned that Arcane Inferno's post about Levi's claim was sort of grimy. At the top of your head, could you tell me why that was?

Did I say that? His post about Bunzy's claim was grimy but I can't remember what he said about Levi's. I'll look at it when I get home

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

Amidamaru, lay out your Potassium scumread for me. I am not asking for a verbose case with dozens of quotes, but some kind of analysis that spans a few day phases would be helpful.

BarDulL, you should claim. Any kind of information that can help Town better ascertain your alignment is only beneficial at this point.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mafi...accuring-problem.360822/page-67#post-17279910

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

Yes, I read that. I was hoping that there was more to chew on than that.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mafi...accuring-problem.360822/page-66#post-17278172

 

[BarDulL]

Amidamaru, lay out your Potassium scumread for me. I am not asking for a verbose case with dozens of quotes, but some kind of analysis that spans a few day phases would be helpful.

BarDulL, you should claim. Any kind of information that can help Town better ascertain your alignment is only beneficial at this point.

I might claim tonight, but it would literally only satiate your curiosity.

Ah I just don't care anymore, I will literally have no time for this game starting tomorrow anyway. I'm a Town Nurse. I have a x-shot protect. I was not previously informed that I was a nurse; I was formerly VT and found out upon JeXs' flip. I will be protecting either Ami or Levi tonight, haven't decided.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Flavor?

10char

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Pretty sure we've got him because there's no way in hell a nurse would claim when the Leviathan protect is super free. At least not until the very end.

Leaving him around simply ensures LyLo of Bardull/Leviathan/Gova or me as opposed to a LyLo of Amidamaru or Kantrip/Me/Gova (assuming game does not end before that point in both cases). Unless we're scared of an executioner or double voter.

 

[Gova]

except nothing has changed; your reasons for having us claim yesterday still apply; ie bardull could potentially eat a night kill or stop it if he's telling the truth;

there's also no guarantee that leviathan was gonna be shot; jexs docced ami when the kill was blocked iirc so they could have easily decided to shoot him again

 

[Dramatic Flair]

I thought my post made it pretty clear I don't care one way or another whether we leave him for later or hit him now. I just don't want him living because back-up is a piss poor claim on the level of bullet proof. Especially unaware back-up.

I would lynch him in 3 man even if he claimed a successful protect because of how easy it is to fake with no investigative.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Yes, I read that. I was hoping that there was more to chew on than that.

That is all there is to it. I am willing to listen to what you have to say about it though. There is nothing more I can get from Potassium.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

@ Dramatic Flair : Who has a higher chance to flip scum between BardulL/Gheb?
@ Gova : What are your opinions of Bardull/Gheb?

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Vote: BardulL