Mafia Sleepover: The Finale [ Town Wins - Pokemon Sight seeing]

[Lore]

Forgot Potassium, which is a sign I should read him more as well. He's included under the umnbrella of Murder and Bardull for now.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

Don't tell me you don't actually have a flat-out scum read on somebody at all?!?

 

[Lore]

Don't tell me you don't actually have a flat-out scum read on somebody at all?!?

Those are all just starting opinions after a quick skim. I even flat out said three slots I'm unsure about and will decide on. So don't put ****ing words in my mouth.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

1.] He does? From what I remember, the most he mentioned about Bunzy was asking why he was scum while pointing out Bunzy's points against my slot which is consistent with his push on me.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. My point is: at the end of Day 2, it became a matter of either you, dabuz or Bardull getting lynched. Murderbush pushed you. Hard. The least scummy of the three slots by far and one of the most vocal supporters of a dabuz lynch. Dabuz gets lynched and flips scum Investigator. Do I really need to say more about this?

2.] I do not believe Bunzy has had much of a filter in his reads this game. The timing of that townread on Murderbush was when he still had thread power and people were following him on lynches; I think it was more of Bunzy riding his coattails and getting in good with him as opposed to calling his scumbuddy Town when the rest of the Town already felt that way.

I don't see why the one scenario is supposed to be more likely than the other. It's a 50/50 thing in my book and does neither connect nor diconnect dabuz from murderbush.

3.]

Is there anything in particular Gova has done outside of toDay that has you leaning Town on him? Or is it because he does not "fit the puzzle" of the scumteam? Also, why back off BarDulL if you are reading him as scum harder than you are Murderbush? I think his lynch is attainable this phase and I would happily join you to get rid of him.

I'm not 'backing off' Bardull. Just because I'm voting murder you think I am?

Gova has always been one of my most townie reads. Even yesterDay though I mentioned him as a null [I had no legit town read at that point]. I don't really see why I should explain myself on him any more than I'm already doing.

4.] It is telling that both Arcane and BarDulL have pulled 180s on their reads of Murderbush in light of Bunzy's flip. Bunzy's alignment has little bearing on Murderbush's for reasons I have already said; it is guaranteed that one of these two slots are taking advantage of the hole that Murderbush is in for a mislynch deprived of responsibility due to Town turning against the slot.

What garbage. I've already had a scum lean on murder yesterDay and the only thing that dabuz' scum flip did was to substantiate my tendency to read murder as scum. It's actually quite the opposite of a 180°. Of course, you are right if you call out Bardull's opportunistic bull**** to turn against murder now but that shouldn't surprise anybody at this point so I could care less about it. Though it's really ****ing annoying how you keep making Bardull vs me out as a S v T scenario, as if I were scummy if Bardull were to magically flip town. It's stupid and dangerous to establish that idea and you should have realized by now that most people haven't reacted to you constantly nudging it - for a good reason. The only thing you'd achieve is to line up a second mislynch if Bardull were to flip scum.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

Those are all just starting opinions after a quick skim. I even flat out said three slots I'm unsure about and will decide on. So don't put ****ing words in my mouth.

U mad???

 

[Lore]

Ok, this is weird.

4.] It is telling that both Arcane and BarDulL have pulled 180s on their reads of Murderbush in light of Bunzy's flip. Bunzy's alignment has little bearing on Murderbush's for reasons I have already said; it is guaranteed that one of these two slots are taking advantage of the hole that Murderbush is in for a mislynch deprived of responsibility due to Town turning against the slot. One of these two need to be lynched toDay no questions asked; I will give a brief rundown on Arcane's abominable play soon.

I don't like this part of the post at all. He says that it's telling that they both "pulled a 180" on Murderbush. First of all, I can see people thinking Murder is scummy after his play yesterday and him being so wrong (my own read differs but I'll say that in my next post), so why go against them because they had a fairly reasonable reaction?

The second part that gets me is that he's using it as an excuse to lynch either slot safely then lynch the other the next day. If it's tvs like he says, why is it scummy for both of them to have this kind of reaction? In that situation one is having a genuine town reaction and the other one is a scum reaction, meaning that them BOTH doing it means nothing. It's starting to feel like you're calling them both scummy without actually doing it, making it simple to lynch a slot then continue to push towards the other slot the next day even if the other slot ended up town.

He's basically just saying they're both scummy for doing this, which makes zero sense if it's tvs. I've been reading you as town, Levi, but I really don't understand how this post is anything but manipulation to reach your goal. I saw your previous stuff as just basic strong arming, but I'm going to do a reread and see if any other posts are similar to this.

 

[Lore]

On Murder: I'm feeling like he had blinders on and was frothing at the mouth to lynch Levi. I can't see any real scum intent behind his fake claim, and his tunneling at Levi made him just assume people Levi disliked that Day were town just because Levi was against them. Null starting to move to town, I don't see how he's the play today. I'm reading it all as him being flat out wrong.

Bardull... I'm getting a headache thinking of his quickhammer. It's riddled with wifom if looked at deeper, and I'm just going to ignore it. His attempt to push against Gova was pretty crappy toDay though, that's for damn sure. I can see him being the play today, but I want more time to collect my thoughts and see a bit more from him.

Potassium, I have a question. Why did you have a "reflex vote" to Bunz after the claim, putting him to l-1 when the claimed guilty wasn't already on the wagon? You had ZERO reason to do this, especially since there wasn't even a counter claim.

 

[BarDulL]

I haven't deliberately stated that MB is scum, actually. The thing is though, they pretty much turned into complete nutcases this game going straight for Levi even while showing support for Dabuz's claim (why would they not just go for me at that point?) I honestly do not get it. If they were showing support for Dabuz's claim, the right thing to do from their point of view would have been to aim for the guilty. The lengths of which this slot has gone to kill Levi are pretty severe.

So what I want MB to do is to elaborate in really full detail why they did what they did, and what direction they want to go now.

I don't actually 100% think they are scum only because they came to my defense on D2 when I was looking like roasted Totoro. I don't REALLY get the scum intent of them trying to raise an army to lynch Levi while dismantling my potential lynch on D2 if me and Levi are both Town (not saying Levi is Town but I don't think MB/Levi is a scum team together). I actually think they were more concerned with lynching Xonar as per some kind of personal quarrel of egos/a power struggle of sorts. Raz even mentions at one point he'd be more prone to letting Levi off the hook if Levi wasn't such a butt-munch, which I think is proof in the pudding. It's pretty anti-town and is making me groan though, and I don't think TownRaz would normally do something like that. Definitely having an inner struggle ATM with that slot.

Will post later more later tonight...probably. Right now I kinda don't feel like playing because I know I need to reread everything to get a clearer view of the big picture, but that's a really long reread by my standards (2000 posts good gawd @_@).

 

[Gova]

O

The second part that gets me is that he's using it as an excuse to lynch either slot safely then lynch the other the next day. If it's tvs like he says, why is it scummy for both of them to have this kind of reaction? In that situation one is having a genuine town reaction and the other one is a scum reaction, meaning that them BOTH doing it means nothing. It's starting to feel like you're calling them both scummy without actually doing it, making it simple to lynch a slot then continue to push towards the other slot the next day even if the other slot ended up town.

He's basically just saying they're both scummy for doing this, which makes zero sense if it's tvs. I've been reading you as town, Levi, but I really don't understand how this post is anything but manipulation to reach your goal. I saw your previous stuff as just basic strong arming, but I'm going to do a reread and see if any other posts are similar to this.

it's funny that you should mention this; because he's setting up this dichotomy of one must be scum; and taking advantage of it; which he explicitly stated was scummy; sooo like whats the deal

5.] @ Gova

Yes, that answers my question, thank you. You listed Arcane as your second suspect in an earlier post. Does this still apply? Who are you looking at if Murderbush gets lynched and flips Town?

im unsure about AI; their posts today resonate with me as i agree with the things they've said;

you

I don't actually 100% think they are scum only because they came to my defense on D2 when I was looking like roasted Totoro.

scum defend townies all the time; this isn't new; it's an easy way to get town cred for being right (if they end up getting lynched) and/or bring that person over to your side and vote with you

 

[Gova]

ebwop; formatting errors be damned

this was supposed to go under werekill's quuote

it's funny that you should mention this; because he's setting up this dichotomy of one must be scum; and taking advantage of it; which he explicitly stated was scummy; sooo like whats the deal

 

[Lore]

Gova, mind giving an ebwop or whatever? That formatting was odd.

Probably about to board, so I'll vanish for an hourish until I land in Atlanta.

 

[Gova]

i did give an ebwop

 

[Lore]

Lol, ninja.

Mind showing where he said that? Because that's a huge deal; he's been setting up "if x flips town then y is scum" and vice versa for most of the game. That one is just the first that made me pause.

 

[Gova]

@ Lore

Murderbush is likely lying about the vig claim to get me lynched. If he is not, then one of us was likely jailed. Apparently he is a big NK target and I am the scummiest thing in Town so it explains itself. This dichotomy of "one must be scum" is disgusting; this is exactly the kind of play scum would take advantage of.

right there

 

[Lore]

....

Levi you better get your ass in here and explain that.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

Attention Town

The scumteam is as follows: 1 of [Arcane Inferno/BarDulL]
1 of [Gova/Werekill]

I will be back shortly. Everyone start accepting the above as fact.

 

[Gova]

lol

10char

 

[BarDulL]

scum defend townies all the time; this isn't new; it's an easy way to get town cred for being right (if they end up getting lynched) and/or bring that person over to your side and vote with you

You're missing the point. MB doesn't need to defend me and raise hell against Levi in that scenario presuming Levi is Town (and that I am Town of course). It's completely unnecessary when a Levi flip at that point of the game would have had every slot looking at me.

 

[BarDulL]

ebwop: and vice versa.

 

[Lore]

Attention Town

The scumteam is as follows: 1 of [Arcane Inferno/BarDulL]
1 of [Gova/Werekill]

I will be back shortly. Everyone start accepting the above as fact.

So instead of answering my question... You bring up two dichotomies. Lovely.

Vote: Levi until you actually answer all this.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

1.] I have no idea what point you are trying to make. My point is: at the end of Day 2, it became a matter of either you, dabuz or Bardull getting lynched. Murderbush pushed you. Hard. The least scummy of the three slots by far and one of the most vocal supporters of a dabuz lynch. Dabuz gets lynched and flips scum Investigator. Do I really need to say more about this?



2.] I don't see why the one scenario is supposed to be more likely than the other. It's a 50/50 thing in my book and does neither connect nor diconnect dabuz from murderbush.



3.] I'm not 'backing off' Bardull. Just because I'm voting murder you think I am?

4.] Gova has always been one of my most townie reads. Even yesterDay though I mentioned him as a null [I had no legit town read at that point]. I don't really see why I should explain myself on him any more than I'm already doing.



5.] What garbage. I've already had a scum lean on murder yesterDay and the only thing that dabuz' scum flip did was to substantiate my tendency to read murder as scum. It's actually quite the opposite of a 180°. Of course, you are right if you call out Bardull's opportunistic bull**** to turn against murder now but that shouldn't surprise anybody at this point so I could care less about it. Though it's really ****ing annoying how you keep making Bardull vs me out as a S v T scenario, as if I were scummy if Bardull were to magically flip town. It's stupid and dangerous to establish that idea and you should have realized by now that most people haven't reacted to you constantly nudging it - for a good reason. The only thing you'd achieve is to line up a second mislynch if Bardull were to flip scum.

1.] He was pushing me before Bunzy was ever an option and it was clear he was set out to get me lynched regardless of what else occurred in the thread. You are saying he is likelier to be scum due to his ignoring of a scum slot while I assert that he would have acted that way regardless of who else was on the table.

2.] If you are going to say it is 50/50, please explain why. You are completely ignoring context and the momentum Murderbush had going in his favor at that point in the game; Bunzyscum has plenty of reason to ride his coattails and plenty to gain. The same cannot be said of him supporting his scumbuddy, and it is also inconsistent with him calling other Townies just that.

3.] Absolutely. You have spent the better part of three Days hounding BarDulL, putting him on the bottom of every list, and calling anyone who could think otherwise foolish for doing so. His lynch is definitely doable toDay, and you reneging on that in favor of a newly found scum read is, well, weak at best. Scummy at worst.

4.] Fair.

5.] Yes, you [Gheb] started leaning scum on him [Murderbush] for fakeclaiming despite acknowledging that he would do it as Town. That is not a good reason. That said, I fully intend on repeating myself on you/BarDulL as SvT.

Mainly, I am worried that you could be scum sneaking in a mislynch of Murderbush before going back to BarDulL. If you are Town, I do not see why you are not pushing BarDulL; it is like you are taking the easy play this phase.

6.] Amidamaru, I would indeed lynch Werekill on one condition: we lynch Gova if he flips Town.

7.] Werekill, I do not agree with flipping to a Murderscum read on Bunzy's flip. Most of his play was protown and people are jumping to a connection between him and Bunzy when he could just as easily have been wrong on the read. I do not think it is reasonable; I think scum would jump on the hate Murderbush has gotten for the flip and ride it for an easy mislynch. I have had Arcane v. BarDulL as TvS since D1, so the rest of your analysis ignores this.

8.] Regarding the dichotomy commentary, yes, I enjoy making dichotomies between player slots. The quote Gova pulled has me saying "This dichotomy", i.e. the specific instance of myself and Murderbush caught up in it. I know I am Town, and I am pretty confident that Murderbush is as well, so other players jumping in on the claiming fiasco between two Town players bothered me. It does not bother me to shine the light between two slots which I strongly believe to contain scum.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

So instead of answering my question... You bring up two dichotomies. Lovely.

Vote: Levi until you actually answer all this.

I literally said I would be back shortly.

I do not buy your flop on my slot.

 

[Gova]

it doesn't even matter if it's specific; theres no evidence to suggest that if werekill is town that im scum or that bardul/AI is scum if the other is town and vice versa

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

There is in my eyes. I believe Amidamaru, Murderbush, JeXs, and Potassium to be Town. This leaves the 4 players I listed. I do not think BarDulL and Arcane are both scum together given their interactions. This leaves one of them and one of you. I know my Murderbush town read is not popular, but I intend on sticking to it.

 

[Gova]

sooo then if i think one of you or murderbush is scum via the dichotomy i asked you about

thats scummy? wtf; that makes no sense

 

[Gova]

So, you have put in effort into linking two living players whose alignment you don't know off weaksauce speculation, but not Bunzy the flipped scum?

What are you doing in this game?

i find this hilarious in retrospect; as you're linking me and werekill and bardull and AI

all 4 living player's alignments you might not know based on weak-sauce speculation

and yes i consider you saying that if one of us is town the other is scum; linking

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

1.] sooo then if i think one of you or murderbush is scum via the dichotomy i asked you about

thats scummy? wtf; that makes no sense

2.] i find this hilarious in retrospect; as you're linking me and werekill and bardull and AI

all 4 living player's alignments you might not know based on weak-sauce speculation

and yes i consider you saying that if one of us is town the other is scum; linking

1.] Yes. Scum need mislynches to win. I think Murderbush is very obviously Town and that there is no way that scum is not tossing suspicion his way right now.

2.] I might not know the alignments, but the conclusions are not weak-sauce speculation. I am making these conclusions based off reads I have been developing on the player list for a long time now coupled with observed interactions.

I am also willing to volunteer myself for the lynch if either of those in-between statements are proven false.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

1.] Bardull, don't actually listen to Levi. He just wants to lynch you and arcane in order without really thinking you/him scum (as evident by him flipping between gova/you/arcane). If you are town please talk to me about what I was theorizing about. Someone at least bounce ideas with me. 2.] Also, if murder were town, he'd be in here pushing Levi. Jex can't even respond to my question anymore. I think it shows Jex's scum as well.

1.] I am "flipping" as means of pressure. How many people had reads they were confident about with Gova before he got wagoned early toDay? How about now? That is what I am trying to accomplish.

2.] No, Murder's inactivity is a result of both halves not being able to converse with each other. They have done this since Day One. Stop spinning nulltells.

I have made up my mind on the lynch toDay. I need your help again though.

 

[Gova]

2.] Stop spinning nulltells.
.

also hilarious that you say this considering you're doing it too

 

[Gova]

1.] Yes. Scum need mislynches to win. I think Murderbush/Werekill/AI/Bardull/Potassium/Jexs/playername is very obviously Town and that there is no way that scum is not tossing suspicion his way right now.

i like how i can do this;

you cant realistically call other people scummy for saying one of you or murderbush is scum while doing the same thing for other people

I have made up my mind on the lynch toDay. I need your help again though.

and who is that

 

[Gova]

2.] I might not know the alignments, but the conclusions are not weak-sauce speculation. I am making these conclusions based off reads I have been developing on the player list for a long time now coupled with observed interactions.

is that not what ami was doing?

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

You're missing the point. MB doesn't need to defend me and raise hell against Levi in that scenario presuming Levi is Town (and that I am Town of course). It's completely unnecessary when a Levi flip at that point of the game would have had every slot looking at me.

Ryker does unnecessary things as scum, I have seen. For example, bussing PJB (being the first to do so) in Elements and Attributes mafia. It gave him alot of town cred and no one questioned their read on him, and questioned anyone who dared to look at him. Also, to me Murder town reading you like that felt like he was trying to protect you, and it would make it seem like you/him were connected as scum.

Him defending you doesn't mean he is scum for it, but it doesn't give him town points either. Do try to consider the rest of his play, and his play now. If you are town, please consider this.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

I have made up my mind on the lynch toDay. I need your help again though.

Hmm. I'll get back to you on that. But I'm interested in seeing what you bring up. Still want Murder though.

 

[BarDulL]

I am just going to cover my totoro ears and look the other way while you guys do your thing for now.

@ JeXs I've seen you in the thread but you haven't voted for anyone yet. Watdo?

 

[JeXs]

vote: werekill
Why the sudden quick flip? Just that ONE post?

I am just going to cover my totoro ears and look the other way while you guys do your thing for now.

@ JeXs I've seen you in the thread but you haven't voted for anyone yet. Watdo?

If you notice I'm often viewing the thread but it doesn't actually mean I'm here.

 

[Lore]

vote: werekill
Why the sudden quick flip? Just that ONE post?


If you notice I'm often viewing the thread but it doesn't actually mean I'm here.

In case you couldn't tell, I voted becauase I wanted an answer. I got one, and I'll respond when I get settled in my hotel (just landed).

And my read in general is still pending a reread of him in particular. That one post made me think and even start to see the opposing viewpoint a bit.

 

[JeXs]

So I take it that you're null on Levi right now?

 

[Lore]

Also, why do I get the funny feeling that he's going to use me and Gova being opposed to all this as "proof" we're related in that dichotomy.

 

[JeXs]

You dropped your initial read on his slot just because he was setting up dichotomies? Is that it?

 

[Lore]

So I take it that you're null on Levi right now?

Yes, I've gone from town to null.