Mafia Sleepover: The Finale [ Town Wins - Pokemon Sight seeing]

[JeXs]

It's around 11am. I can probably be here as long as nothing goes wrong.

 

[Lore]

Well ****. I'm heading to bed, but I'll try to be online today.

 

[BarDulL]

Thoughts on Levi and J? They seem to be the top lynch candidates if my mental vote count is right.

J has been pretty non-existent pretty much all game if memory serves. I'm still in the middle of catching up tho. Regarding Levi, to be perfectly honest (as it should have been apparent), my vote on him was/is pretty unsubstantiated atm and it's only there because I was throwing Ami my vote to see if they could do anything with it while I was (and still am) considering Jexs. I haven't REALLY looked into him yet. I liked where murderbush was going with the slot regarding Levi's push on Protean being an overextend on Levi's part, which was true. Levi's immediate push towards Dabuz after he realized he wasn't going to get his way with Protean was interesting, but I haven't really decided if this was scum motivated or town motivated. Personally, I think it's kinda grimy to not stick to your guns.

Also, I feel like Levi has been avoiding contact with my slot. Which is kinda weird. We haven't actually spoken to each other yet. Watdo?

Anyway, continuing my read.

 

[BarDulL]

Minor update: I can see the J hate. after reading J vs. Washed. There's something about J's tone and his general approach that isn't very much like his town approach from the games I've played with him in recent memory.

 

[BarDulL]

@ Arcane Inferno What do you think about the current wagons?

@ Gova You listed two recent games of J where he played very differently and he was a different alignment in both games, between those games, which compares more to his play toDay if either compares?

@ BarDulL What's your current opinion on Jex?

Looking at Protean's case on J now

i just don't like the slot at all, no offense to jexs himself but everything about it just grinds against me. his willingness to switch votes so quickly between dabuz/levi and then to myself and his willingness to ride coattails is just urghhhhh it can very easily be new scum or new town and it's a damn shame. idk what to say about the AtE either but i'm just going to leave it alone for now.

 

[BarDulL]

I think Arcane's approach to my slot has been really wonky, but I don't know what to make of it. He says he thinks I'm scum because I have a similar persona to Monster mafia, which is KINDA true, but I mean how is that an implication that I'm scum? He hasn't really refuted the point I made earlier which is that having a similar persona isn't necessarily an implication of alignment, especially in DGames where we have a TON of people that can emulate their town personas as scum, including me (yes I can do it GIVE ME SOME CREDIT COME ON PEOPLE JEEZ!) But they aren't the direction I want to go in right now; they're sitting at null, slight slight town for me because the rest of their content really hasn't been bad at all (except for dat wonky bardeezy read come on you playa haters)

 

[BarDulL]

I'm going to go with Bardull. Explained it previously but Protean called it mechanical which I still don't understand. Unless someone convinces me otherwise that answer will be Bardull. Would be fine with lynching J though.

Jexs, I looked over you reasoning for why you dislike my slot, but it looks like a classic OMGUS. Have you considered that I might be town simply misreading you?

As an aside, and I'm really curious, what do you think of a Levi/J/BarDulL scum team? Is it possible? Like, who do you think would be my hypothetical partners at this point in time if I actually was scum? Please elaborate.

(Also, try to understand that I'm open minded and not hell bent on forcing you on the guillotine.)

 

[BarDulL]

@ #HBC | Leviathan yo so what's up, we haven't talked yet or anything. who do you like and who do you dislike?

@#HBC | Bunzy haven't spoken to you much either. where do you think scum is? any hard town reads you got going on?

@ #HBC | Amidamaru - y are you such a bro

@#HBC | J - I'm thinking about voting for you atm. But I'd like to hear beforehand some substantiation regarding your town Jexs/Levi reads (if memory correctly serves you town read them which was pretty opposite of the current). Who do you think scum is?

@ Kantrip -

kay that's it for my catch up

 

[JeXs]

I believe Levi is town. Don't know about a J and bardull team since you 2 barely interacted at all iirc. Not sure who your partners would be.

 

[#HBC | Leviathan]

@ #HBC | Leviathan yo so what's up, we haven't talked yet or anything. who do you like and who do you dislike?

Have a look at post 818.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

> mfw I try to read the thread asap only to be confronted with massive walls by ami >_<

I wanted to ask you about your reads on Werekill and JexS. I also wanted to ask you about your opinion on Leviathan's recent play.

I'm always paranoid of Werekill because I don't think too many people - myself included - have a good grasp on how to actually read him. It happened in Monster Mafia where I kept reminding people that he could be scum even though he was appearing as 'obvious' town virtually all game. He really hasn't done anything 'right' or 'wrong' so far in this game but that doesn't mean too much because like who the hell knows what's 'right' and 'wrong' in WK's case. I'm keeping has a null and will try to focus on connections to him once we have flips. If he's scum he'll likely be the last piece of the puzzle if you know what I mean.

Slight town lean on Jexs. Ran has been tunneling him like a ****ing ****** and virtually nothing came of it. Even when other people started to pile on the votes nothing seemed to happen and he remained unaffected. If he's not a townie then he must be either some sort of mafia wunderkind or he just doesn't give a **** about anything. Town seems to be the safest bet to me.

I have no particular problem with Levi's recent play or in fact, his overall play so far. The only thing that bothered me at first was the amount of fluff he posted in the beginning of the game but that has vanished completely by now. Obviously, I'm not impressed by his 'case' on me and don't think it'll actually go anywhere but I'm not terribly bothered by it either. I think he knows what he's doing and have no problem with it. He seems reasonable enough to find himself wrong soon enough and when that happens he'll be reasonable enough to get over it and move on. I've had him as null but his play has been so consistent and unproblematic up until this point that I'm starting to lean town on him more and more.

Arcane, I admit stating that you were setting me up as a scum mate was reaching on my part. That said, that does not change my discomfort with you lacking a read on my slot. I'm unlike Potassium, Bunzy, Gova, and Werekill in that I've had more pressure thrown my way [same with JeXs] and have been vocal; I would expect someone aligned with the Town to have some sort of bead on me at this point. You say you're unconvinced [one half at least] about me being scum but I have yet to see any promising push from you outside of BarDulL, and even that one hasn't seen you come alive like a town-aligned player who thinks he has a scumread that most players aren't noticing would.

I do have a read on your slot by now. See above. I just hadn't read too much of what you said then because, like I said earlier, I tend to skip over walls and you were posting a whole lot of nothing tbqh until you started to move to dabuz ... which I believe was your first legit attempt to push the game into a direction. I don't really see how you'd wrangle a scumread out of that though. Sometimes active slots can be read as null because their perceived pro-town actions and their perceived anti-town actions keep each other in balance and add up to a 'neutral' read that can be categorized neither as scummy nor as townie.

Regarding my pushes, I'd like to repeat that frozen is still dead-set on lynchin J and I have already mentioned that I'd support it as well. Frozen has mentioned his issues with J a number of times over the course of the Day. But he's not here and I'd also like to see Bardull dead so that's what you're going to see from our slot the most. Deal with it.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

He says he thinks I'm scum because I have a similar persona to Monster mafia, which is KINDA true, but I mean how is that an implication that I'm scum? He hasn't really refuted the point I made earlier which is that having a similar persona isn't necessarily an implication of alignment, especially in DGames where we have a TON of people that can emulate their town personas as scum, including me

I haven't refuted your points because there was nothing to refute. What you're saying essentially boils down to "yeah, I *am* as scummy as I have been in monster but hey, a townie can be scummy too!".

And like I said, it wasn't the only reason I have you as scum. It was my initial point but I continued to be bothered by other things [your whack FoS on Levi for example] that confirm my suspicion that you're more concerned with keeping in line with your meta, rather than finding scum. Your lack of actvitiy didn't help your case either.

 

[Protean-]

mkay if deadlines today it's about time we get ourselves a lynch.

and ive decided that that lynch is j.

whether or not j has backed from the thread by choice matters little. but the fact is that since we approached suspicion of his slot, he's been silent. and that was i assume a prod worthy amount of time ago. to play devils advocate, AT LEAST levi has responded to pressure both directly and indirectly by expanding his horizon past his own selfish needs recently. whilst i can't say this necessarily helps my read on him, it DOES help me want to lynch j more. id rather not have a player who's in the hot seat toDay live to see toMorrow and replace out, thus forcing another player to either a) perish or b) let ******* give em a chance to save the slot. j dies toDay.

@ #HBC | Leviathan move your vote to j if you haven't already. your vote is useless if it's on bunzy.

@those of you not voting either of levi or j, stop being fools and move your vote to either levi of j (but move your vote to j if you want a lynch that will objectively not be in vain regardless of flip).

mfw we lynch j, he's town, and starts pointing at this game as town meta

 

[JeXs]

vote: J

 

[Dramatic Flair]

I am thoroughly concerned with the lack of resistance to a J lynch.

 

[Gova]

why is that?

 

[Protean-]

btw gbiz i love when you tie most players to your feelings about not being able to read werekill well even though most townies were spot on about him being super obv town in monster

 

[Dramatic Flair]

We've got a whole day left and we can move the votes. This town is more than active enough. Chill, Protean.

@ Arcane Inferno Talk to me about the above comment about lack of resistance.

 

[Protean-]

@Ninja

why is that?

 

[Protean-]

wait is the deadline tonight at 11:59 pm or tomorrow night 11:59 pm?

 

[Protean-]

i hate forgetting the sig :x

ebwop's

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Tomorrow at 11:59, if I remember correctly.

Also, regardless, let me get Raz. He'll be up in two hours and we need to decide what we want to do. By that, I mean we have to decide if we're willing to settle.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

I am thoroughly concerned with the lack of resistance to a J lynch.

That's actually one of the main reasons why I feel like Bardull is a better lynch.

I'm actually starting to change my mind on that though. I feel like it's becoming increasingly hard to justify keeping J around at this point. Makes me wonder whether J is town or his scummates have just given up on trying to defend him or deflect the pressure onto somebody else. Either is possible but I think the lack of resistance isn't a strong sign at this point anymore.

btw gbiz i love when you tie most players to your feelings about not being able to read werekill well even though most townies were spot on about him being super obv town in monster

Have I already mentioned that I tend to make things more complicated than needed be? ;P

 

[JeXs]

What timezone is the deadline?

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

Just dropping by to say that I support a Levi lynch. (I have already with the concerns I brought up in my Levi analysis) I wanted to wait for MB's answers but those can wait since deadline is close. I do accept protein's answers, especially to my first question. I lol'd. (It was totally unrelated to my concern) I'll be going back to sleep after this post.

Unvote Vote: #HBC | Leviathan (That's 5 votes)

 

[Protean-]

I am thoroughly concerned with the lack of resistance to a J lynch.

I don't agree with this. Getting people to move votes to J in the first place was a nightmare (my delivery sucks, big whoop, the logic was there) and even now, plenty of people are saying "well I see J but then there's this other guy". It doesn't look like resistance to you but to me it does, simply because it's some weird roundabout way of saying that they won't lynch him. Perfect example is Gova's vote on Levi.

 

[Arcane Inferno]

Frozen here, finally ****ing caught up, lets do this ****

apologies for the lack of organization in this post

Couple opening comments.

I haven't touched base with Gheb on my thoughts after my big catch up. I wanted to get this up as soon as possible with the deadline looming. There are some reads I differ with him on. Just making that clear now.

Was completely expecting to see J show his face in some way shape or form that would help me get a better read on him. Literally no showing whatsoever. That bothers me a lot. This is relevant to points I'll make later.

Amidamaru's read list set off major red flags for me in one big way. They have ****ing murderbush and protean as "unsure". How in the **** can you have two of the most vocal slots in the game as unsure, and have real reads on literally every other slot? That some cop out **** if you ask me. Like, that was just strikingly strange. Really, really would like to hear and explanation from this slot about that.

On to the major stuff:

I'm holding you at arm's length because I am trying to differentiate from bad play or scum play. It's truly a toss up at this point.

Tbh I am leaning on bad play of a fiesty WL.

This screams "I dont want to deal with conflict with this slot so I'll call him bad town and try to sweep it under the rug." Throwing out the "its either bad play or scum play" without any explanation as to why you're even stuck on the question in the first place is just as bad as saying "lol idk about my read on you cuz its either noob/dumb town or scum" without any explanation of what makes the two equally plausible. Cop out response to pressure at its finest.

No. You don't go half a phase saying "I'd lynch WL, I'm okay with lynching WL, would you lynch WL?" if you're "trying to differentiate between bad play and scum play." That's not how that works.

^ couldn't have said it any better, this is on point

And no one asks people to lynch a person if they're not pushing them. The fact that he didn't vote for me is even more suspect. It shows his ****ing read is suspect. You don't have to throw a vote to make suspect plays with your lynch "targets".

again protean on point

J I have a simple problem with. He simply tries to brush his explanation of the read under the rug. He claims that there are 'subtle differences' in his play from the mini that strike him as 'likelier to come from a Townie than scum'. That is something akin to saying, "I think J is Town, because reasons." Would you be convinced by that? Because I'm not.

This coupled with the fact that when confronted with the questionableness of his read, he tries to explain it away with "well its ambiguous whether you're bad town or scum", as I've explained above, is particularly damning.

@ Arcane Inferno I would like to have a long conversation with you two, particularly Frozenflame.

I'm here now. Whatever you still need clarification on that I don't hit on in this post, bring it up and tag my ****. I'm gonna watching the thread vigilantly till deadline.

@ Dramatic Flair
@ryker

Let's say you had a daycop ability where you scanned me Town. What effect does this have on your reads?

holy **** this is one of the grimiest anchoring attempts I've ever seen

"whaaaa murderbush stop reading me as scum! assume I'm town plz and do that analysis instead!"

The only change would be you moving to town. The rest of our reads are independent of our read on you and even if we 100% knew you were town, your reads are so colossally bad that they wouldn't make it into our scumlist. We would probably actually try and get you to vote with us instead of ignoring you.

Now, will you please stop being a manipulative ****head? I know you don't think that your comments will be received by Ran and those who view it. Your only purpose is to get a rise and I have made it my mission not to give one this game. Time to change tact, mate.

"**** outta here with that deflective, manipulative bull****. my other reads don't center around you so don't conflate the issues" ~ murderbush not being taken for a ride July, 2014

what the **** is this hypothetical

thumbsup.jpg, see above

As an aside, and I'm really curious, what do you think of a Levi/J/BarDulL scum team? Is it possible? Like, who do you think would be my hypothetical partners at this point in time if I actually was scum? Please elaborate.

What the **** kind of a question is this? No seriously like what meaningful analysis did you expect to get from this?

Asking for people for speculation about full scum teams on D1 always boggles my mind. How the **** can you even begin to piece an entire scum team together without a scum flip, let alone ANY flip at all? This is a lazy, distracting question IMO.

@ Arcane Inferno Talk to me about the above comment about lack of resistance.

I'd be more concerned if J was actually putting up a fight. But he's no where to be found to actually give us a reason why he shouldn't be the play. I've Monster mafia taught me anything, it's that slots behaving like this should NOT be given a pass. Literally like every ****ing scum lynch went down with little resistance simply because the scum had no legitimate defenses for themselves.

Lack of resistance from the entire playerbase to a lynch is one thing when the target is trying to play hard defense. It's an entirely different thing when there's little 3rd party resistance to a slot coupled with the fact that that slot has nothing to say for itself.

I'm actually starting to change my mind on that though. I feel like it's becoming increasingly hard to justify keeping J around at this point. Makes me wonder whether J is town or his scummates have just given up on trying to defend him or deflect the pressure onto somebody else. Either is possible but I think the lack of resistance isn't a strong sign at this point anymore

See Gheb was my townbro in Monster and he knows what the ****s up. We literally JUST went through this ****. Lack of resistance here doesn't give me cold feet in the least. Also, Laundry makes a solid point here:

I don't agree with this. Getting people to move votes to J in the first place was a nightmare (my delivery sucks, big whoop, the logic was there) and even now, plenty of people are saying "well I see J but then there's this other guy". It doesn't look like resistance to you but to me it does, simply because it's some weird roundabout way of saying that they won't lynch him. Perfect example is Gova's vote on Levi.

It's not like the wagon materialized out of ****ing nowhere on one stray comment. There hasn't been a ton of vocal resistance, but it's not like people just instantly jump at the J wagon the moment he was talked about. There were definitely growing pains. Early initial inertia on that wagon's growth for sure.

Vote: J

Very confident this is the best play today but not in any rush to close the wagon out. I certainly need more time in this phase to to talk a few more things out with people who I'm sure want to bounce stuff off me. I'm gonna do some more digging into Bardull and Levi though because those slots still leave a really bad taste in my mouth, and I still REALLLLLY want to hear what Zen/Ran have to say about this "unsure" bull**** on protean/murderbush slots. That **** literally unbelievable.

 

[Rockin]

DAY 1, VOTING LIST
(1) Bunzy - Leviathan,

(5) Leviathan - Bunzy, Murderbush, Bardull, Gova, Admidamaru,

(4) J - Protean, Werekill, Jexs, Arcane Inferno

Not voting - , J, Potassium, ,

with 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynche
Deadline is July 19, 2014 at 11:59 PM EST

To answer Jex, I'm going by Eastern Timezone (US and Canada)

 

[Kantrip]

Vote: J

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Frozenflame, I could kiss you. You do a lot to ease my mind on a J lynch, both with your explanation, and with your read on Leviathan. I was extremely worried about going with a J lynch (or any other lynch), leaving Leviathan in the game with his biggest detractors being slots like Gova, who don't have the power to push him past the 'bleeding hearts club'.

You comment on Ran's read, and he CAN'T answer that for you, because HE doesn't understand it. But I'll tell you why. He is so fixated on Jexs being scum, that it has flavored his entire reads list. Jexs has to be scum, Protean coming into the thread initially at a time beneficial to Jexs, and holding Jexs as a Town lean, Ran cannot compute as anything other than scum helping his partner, because in his head, Jexs has already flipped scum. And he's fixated on that. The fact that we HARD READ Protean as Town and moved Lexs from scum-read to scum-lean also cannot possibly fit in Ran's world view. He's created a paranoia scumteam of Jexs/Protean/Murderbush but lists us as unsure because aside from that incongruity, everything he has is screaming Town at him.

Unfortunately for me, his read on Protean is also affecting his read on Leviathan, which was absolutely MADDENING to see. Despite all of this, Ranscum just isn't even on the table in our mind. He's just confused RanTown.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

The wagons are tied. I still would prefer Leviathan. The slots I would examine tomorrow on J's flip do not CHANGE regardless of J's flip itself, and this includes player-wagon interactions, they are suspect either way.

Leviathan, I believe has a stronger chance of flipping scum. And I can't delete BOTH of them from the game. I considered offering to switch my vote to J, which I'm not sure I want to do, and I've also considered playing chicken, but playing chicken with someone on my side sounds like a terrible idea. So what we can do is reach a consensus. I've made my case, and I think the Leviathan case holds more water. I am curious to hear what your conclusions are concerning why we should lynch J FIRST.

I would like to sort this out before deadline, but regardless, I'm not going to be putting him at L-1 until other players have had a chance to interact with you and until we have a @#HBC | J claim.

We'll be here come end of the phase whenever he needs to die, but I'd rather not go without a claim on record incase he flips Town.

If we agree to lynch J, I will unvote so Leviathan does not get quickhammered.

@ Arcane Inferno

 

[Dramatic Flair]

@ Dramatic Flair :

1. Who would you look into upon a Levi Town/Scum flip? (I want to see both directions)
2. What do you think of my concerns with Levi, and the meta I brought up?
3. How does it affect your case? (I'll look at that straight after I post this, but might not need to post a response to it as I may have covered the feels already)

4. You say you find Laundry scum with precision. Can you tell me how to find Laundry Scum? I ask this because I'm not that good at reading him. I also think you read him as town in Time Travellers mafia, but he turned out scum because loljuly hammer. (Iirc) You see, I find concerns with Levi's slot but I'm skeptical because of how you are reading Laundry, and I don't like his interactions with JexS, and his interaction with me wrt Dabuz wall question. (Which is why I asked him a q about it)

5. How are you reading Dabuz so far?
6. Also, as I posted my analysis, I expect you to post your new analysis on JexS.

I probably have a question lingering in the back of my head, but hate that I can't bring it out. Dang it zen I want to post more.... (I'll post anyways once I remember it, or maybe I already did)

Okay, one at a time.

First, you learn to read Laundryscum by playing mafia with him for 7 years. You get a really good handle for putting yourself in his shoes and seeing what he'd do in a certain situation, and a pretty good handle for reading when an emotional outburst is faked or real.

Second, in Time Travellers, we had 2 reads on Day 1 of consequence. We HELLA incorrectly read Nabe as Town, and we had another incorrect scum read. Laundry's slot was utterly inactive until it kamikaze'd due to Day length.

On your Leviathan meta, I am ABOVE 95% sure that I know who that slot is. So I will make the claim that my meta trumps yours and will further state that he plays the manipulative scum game that I am seeing at present.

Dabuz read. Our Dabuz read is Null, probably leaning slight Town because he picked up on a few good things before we could post them. I've read both your and Leviathan's justification and have seen nothing that warrants a lynch. I've really not seen anything that seems more solid than reaching to call him more than null. I stated in my first reads list that the paper trail he leaves behind will catch him in the end if he is scum, and he has done nothing to obscure that trail. I would rather have 5 other slots before him, leaving him right in the middle of our Town/Scum list.

I think you THOROUGHLY overestimate the change in our Jexs read. All the things we claimed looked scummy still look scummy. However, upon re-examination, and watching him interact further PAST our reads list, it became apparent that there is way more margin for error than with our leading two scum suspects. Protean is correct to an extent, that you've been smothering the slot. If you take a new or bad slot and continually apply pressure for an entire game, they will crack. Town slots break, and do things that aren't Townie, if they are held under a microscope permanently. It's especially easy to come to the conclusion what they are doing is scum-motivated when you look through it WANTING them to be scum. Jexs currently hovers around Werekill in our reads list BEHIND J and Leviathan, but more likely to flip scum than Potassium, who is still a flat null.

You ask where our reads go on a Leviathan flip. We told him and will tell you, the remainder of the reads we have this phase do not depend on his flip. We will be looking at J. And we will be examining our null and lean reads. It's Day 1, and no, we don't have any game-breaking connections. We just have 2 slots who have acted in individually scummy manners that more than warrant their lynch.

Anything we missed? @ #HBC | Amidamaru

 

[Lore]

Frozen's post has really convinced me even further of the J lynch, and I'm glad J's more likely now than Levi; he's just pretty damn town to me. Same with Jexs who I will be vehemently against lynching toMorrow unless something shocking happens with him.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

I literally cannot fathom how you have attained your Leviathan read. Did you not read the two times I posted a case and did you not see him calling me a Machiavellian manipulator when I was trying to get Ran to re-examine a read?

 

[Protean-]

I literally cannot fathom how you have attained your Leviathan read. Did you not read the two times I posted a case and did you not see him calling me a Machiavellian manipulator when I was trying to get Ran to re-examine a read?

Because his scumminess is more subtle than J. Seeing the questionable **** J's done is really easy because his entire gameplay is off. Levi's play on the surface looks fine and you need to look past that to see the incredibly manipulative bull**** that he's done this game. As a result, it doesn't surprise me to see players like Jexs and Werekill or even slots like Ran give him a pass for his play because on the surface, his play seems fine, or not wholly as questionable as J, or Jexs if you're Ran.

Also:

I was extremely worried about going with a J lynch (or any other lynch), leaving Leviathan in the game with his biggest detractors being slots like Gova, who don't have the power to push him past the 'bleeding hearts club'..

do i just not exist or some **** gorf's already made mention that levi has been practically interchangeable with j as his lynch choice today and we both have mentioned we find him scummy.

Over night phase I plan to do more digging into that slot providing that he lives through today. I think his oddball J read is questionable regardless of what J flips and I want to do some more analysis on the slot based on the flip we get today. I'd do it now but I'm leaving tonight and going to visit my mom. You'll have Gorf until deadline.

 

[Dramatic Flair]

Also:

do i just not exist or some ****

Sorry, I must've just slipped my mind as I was in awe of your stupefying ability to get people to board the J lynch that is so popular right now.

Heh.

 

[BarDulL]

Arcane ur a dumbie or scummie

Murderbush being dumbie for suggesting bard lynch cause bard is town

Jbaybay pls get in here and do something or you're going to get pooped on like a masochist

 

[Dramatic Flair]

When did we ever suggest a Bardull lynch?

Bardull, stop being a poop.

 

[#HBC | Amidamaru]

@ Arcane Inferno :

I had problems with how MB was handling his protein read. Similar to what he was saying, I was having trouble accepting that Protein was town. But after re-reading Levi, I came to the conclusion that Levi was suspicious independently, and that MB would be town if Protein were somehow scum. (But I'm not thinking that protein is suspicious now, I'm dropping that, MB is right that he is quite vocal and putting in alot of work, it was just some concerns that have tripped me up)

@ Dramatic Flair : That is good. And ok, that makes sense. No way you can read scumlaundry/kuz lurking it up because there aren't there. On the meta, doesn't quite help me as I have no idea what you mean, but I can see that Levi does scum it up here, even though I see some of the meta here. It's why I joined the wagon in the first place right after you. On Dabuz for me it's meta, I just expect more out of him by now. But you are right, he'll show himself eventually and I can wait for that. That's why I'm on Levi now.

@ Lore @ JeXs @ Kantrip

Why are you guys townreading Levi? Can you each substantiate this, and give thoughts on MB's case on levi, and then show how it affects your read on Levi?

Ok, out for the day. Have martial arts soon.

 

[BarDulL]

watdafack

ok my phone has to be being super ****ty because i thought i read somewhere that you'd be ok with bard lynch

yeah or maybe it's because i just woke up and i thought i was reading a post by you when it was really an arcane post lel