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JeXs, you were town leaning the Amidamaru slot early. However once it was made clear that Ranmaru was doing all the posting for Amidamaru, your read on Amidamaru became null. Why did your read on Amidamaru change?
Page 3: He questions JexS about his read on us meta wise, backs up when JexS gives a valid answer, but still states that it is bad/suspicious but can't determine which. I find this to be simply his justification to back away from jexS, even though JexS answer was valid.
Cue the music girls, i'm back and I brought a dozen donuts enough for each one of us for this wonderful slumber party!~ <3 IT will help keep us awake alllll night. Oh, is there some bickering going on? Heavens no, we can't have that happening, well as the host I can settle all this bickering : D
Oh you, always so mean, I read this and choose to ignore it, for a host cannot be stood up by her guests, don't you talk to me like this again!~ <3
Protean seems to be under a lot of pressure and a good amount of people accuse him of being a big ole party pooper, meanies! After looking through all the evidence, I can't see good reason to believe he is as you girls would term it, scummy, however, I wouldn't surprised if some of us here weeeeeere so dastardly.
*Ahem* I was gonna make my whole post like this, but it's annoying so w/e. First of all, WTF @ this Protean wagon. I read everything and there's like, nothing incriminating, arguably bad play to have challenged Ami so early but that was a conscious decision and I can't see how it's most likely scummy over well, not being scummy. Protean's reasoning and explanations to the accusations of scumminess all make sense and look reasonable for a player in his position, as town, to do. So yeah, just not seeing what makes Protean scummy. I basically skimmed pages 7 and 8 cause it looked like a lot of back and forth, so if there was something super important there, that'd be good to know.
The reactions this wagon has garnered is amazing, but two players have caught my eye
@Gova, give me some thoughts on the more active players like Murderbush and Ami, I don't want to see you just sitting on Protean and harassing him.
@ Leviathan Give me a bit more to chew on, I consider you the person who started this wagon, yet in your initial push on this wagon (205) part of your reason for scum reading Protean is mud slinging (lmfao), and the other is that it's scummy that Protean thought Ami might be trying to make Jex, a noobish player, slip which I don't see being alignment telling. Then in 238 you claim Protean was trying to make Ami look bad with scum intent...which I just don't agree with based on what you presented to back this up. So deeper analysis (and maybe shorter posts) would be appreciated. I also want more interactivity out of you, tell me where else you're looking and why, how you feel about slots like J just latching onto what you say?
@J Ignoring your dislike of Protean when answering, do you still like Amidaramu's play?
If anyone wants specific reads, just ask, reading and taking notes took longer than expected so I didn't want to make it too long.
Also I forgot to answer Ami's question towards me, I should probs go to bed soon >.>
I mean, I guess that's fair reason to scum lean read me, but it was admittedly bad note taking as opposed to laziness. I did reread the first 3 pages since my notes didn't look adequate and even when posting, Protean pointed out an answer to a question I asked so :l
JeXs, there has to be something that makes you think he's town as opposed to null though, right now you're saying he's not looking scummy, you're not saying why he's looking townie. Don't hold onto that Protean gut read this whole game.
Page 9: He comes in with opposition to the Protein- wagon, stating that it is arguably bad play, but it isn't suspicious coming from the position of town. He doesn't go over the actual points made on Protein-, he just waves it off as bad play. He asks some questions to Gova/Levi/J.
In other words you don't want to get your hands dirty and you want to set up the lynches of me and Protean under suspicion one of us is scum in less than 400 posts.
Vote: Leviathan
Ami, talk to me about Jex, I can see him being scum with Levi but without the flip/ on a town flip, I can kind of see Jex being town.
Well then, i wasn't expecting that. Just to add some Jex stuff, he hasn't had any sort of agenda and his constant nulls + unsures and mulling of opinions while finding cases he agrees with and supporting them is indicative of confused townie. Where I feel if he was on a scum team, his actions would look more goal oriented cause at the very least i'd expect experienced players to try and direct him.
Anyway, I do have notes and stuff, but IDK, there just isn't enough content for me to make a wall out of, the game is only 480 posts.
Not exactly surprising, I believe it was Protean in posts 54 and 66 where he explained this is just how JeXs is and I don't expect that to change until JeXs is more experienced. In fact one of the things which stood out most to me was in 382 where he lightly pushed you after you pushed Levi.
What are you making of his current posts? He's not really getting pressured but there's a lot of **** where he just seems inconsistent and afraid to make a push.
No, I made a point of saying that he doesn't respond to pressure that well but that's an entirely different point. Comparing what I saw in the mini to what I'm seeing now, there's little movement in his words and a lot of times that I'm just scratching my head and wondering if he's actually this shallow or if he's scum.
Page 13: Not liking his vote on Leviathan here. He parrots reasoning already said by Ryker (I assume) instead of actually giving an analysis himself about it. He also wants to talk to me about JexS, as he feels his play is confusedTown. He gives reasoning and I refute it, and he simply 'takes it down' but I do not think it really affects his read on JexS. In the spoiler, WL talks to Dabuz on how he is wrong on Jexx. Especially the reasoning for JexS being confused town, he wrongly read from WL and used it as reasoning but I don't think he responded to this, so I don't know how it affected his read. (Update: He does reply to the first quote but not the second)
I think he's playing really bad so I understand the dislike on him. It just looks newb-confused town to me because I can't see from a newb-scum POV why he would play the way he is.
It's risky to express how unsure he is on like everything, yes?
Can you explain the discussion that's been going on to 635 between you and Arcane and if you've gotten any reads from it?
Tell me then, is there anywhere you want to look? Is there anyone on the Jex and Levi wagons that bring up red flags?
Why are you defending Jex in 612 if you're null on him but fine with lynching him as shown in 624?
Also, i'm gonna be making a post explaining why exactly I think Levi is scum later today or tomorrow.
@Arcane Inferno What do you think about the current wagons?
@Gova You listed two recent games of J where he played very differently and he was a different alignment in both games, between those games, which compares more to his play toDay if either compares?
@J (Asked in 654) Tell me then, is there anywhere you want to look? Is there anyone on the Jex and Levi wagons that bring up red flags?
Protean's case on J:
Point A, J has been avoiding Protean's questions this game, then J puts Protean in her lynch pool seemingly without reason for him being scummy. (actually in 330 it's confirmed that J just doesn't like Protean and vaguely thinks Protean's flip would help with connections -_-) IIRC this is around the time the Protean wagon was forming. Agreed this is scummy play.
Agree with Protean that J's 714 is a bad post, but not scummy bad moreso than just bad because it coincides with J being fine with your lynch early but not necessarily saying you're scummy. However that in itself was scummy so if these kind of posts become a pattern, there is a problem.
Don't see anything wrong with just not having hard scum reads at this point in the game and I think you're making this point under the assumption he's scum and trying to avoid the hard scum reads. I would find a stronger point to be the simple fact that he comments on how he thinks scum is in the sidelines, but doesn't do anything about that, even a few directed questions at inactives would help.
Concerning he isn't actually looking for scum on wagons for players he is town leaning, not concerned about how he tries to shoot down the levi/ jex wagons unless either of them flips scum.
Basically rewording the previous part in your case, so the same thing applies here as I mentioned above. The only thing extra is him lynching you because he doesn't like you, but the existence of that was established in an earlier post on J.
The only strong point in your case on ScumJ is that he's not attempting to do anything. It's a good point and I would like to see your thoughts in D2 when we have more info to work with and J has had a bit more time to well, do stuff. Right now it's
ISO of Leviathan, every single post in this thread. To make it easy i'll highlight parts of the posts I am specifically referring to.
RVS, nothing interesting.
Pretty much the only important part of his post, he shows a dislike of me and hints he dislikes someone else, but everything else is unimportant.
The first point is essentially Protean is scum for thinking Ami was trying to make JeXs slip. I don't agree it's alignment telling but w/e. The second point Levi admits is weaker but still brings up as a point; Protean is mud slinging and those posts aren't constructive. WTF kind of reasoning is that, how is Levi so experienced apparently but his reasoning is so weak? "Hey Leviathan I think your posts are too long, worded in weird ways, and annoying" Does that make me scummy because that's the essence of Levi's second point and it's gaaaaaaarbage to even be a slight reason to scum read Protean.
Then at the end he's already working towards setting up lynches by saying he wants to see me and Protean lynched consecutively because it's unlikely we are both town. Red flag red flag screams of scum setting up MLs, and this just gets worse.
Talking to Protean and pushing him in the first paragraph, w/e he's doing stuff. The second paragraph though...he's already trying to get a lynch. I don't remember the exact post # this is, but it's still early, he explains in the next post to werekill that he wanted to see reactions because he knows he won't get the lynch yet so w/e, i'll buy it. So the other problem with this; he's still trying to set up my lynch after Protean's if Protean flips town. Keep in mind we have yet to see a connection between me and Protean, in fact i'm pretty sure I still have yet to post since PG. 3 so it doesn't make any sense.
Important parts of the post.
1: Amidamaru is null, Levi is only interested in Ami pushing Protean more, doesn't care about Ami pressuring werekill and is annoyed Ami is asking Levi more questions in 24 hours. I don't like how Levi is trying to shut down everything that isn't more Protean pressure.
2: I gave Levi the perfect chance to analyze his Protean read and go deeper into why it is, as a townie this is the perfect chance for him to show his towniess through a logical interpretation of scumProtean, but he brushes it off completely, it's working against not only me trying to get reads, but against furthering town as a whole whether it means having more reason to believe scumProtean, or realizing the case on Protean isn't good enough to push for a lynch. Completely ignores not only me asking about J, but me asking for ANY other direction or thoughts, I believe this is scum tunneling. Then he has the audacity to say i'm reeking of fake contribution when I just asked him stuff that would contribute greatly and help me contribute. THIS IS WORKING AGAINST TOWN.
3: Continues reinforcing the idea there is scum between me and Protean. WHY? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY?!
I forget who Levi is talking to here, not important.
Response to me, not important except for the fact that he's moved to wanting to lynch me foremost it seems.
Says Amidamaru is the village idiot because he seems genuine despite his play helping scum. What I don't like about this is he doesn't say HOW Ami's play helps scum (unless it's a shallow reason like pushing the Levi wagon). By not trying to tell Ami what he's doing wrong and you know, help Ami stop helping scum, he's indirectly letting Ami help scum. OFC Levi could have just been referring to the wagon on him which is a disgustingly shallow reason for Ami to be the village idiot.
For some reason he's playing hard to get with JeXs read, Amidamaru is a player who has laid all his thoughts in the open. I guess this isn't scummy by itself, but it's not helping town to be so hard to get reads out of.
Finally, he's going to try to get me lynched once the wagon on him breaks, from a town POV why is he waiting? I even told him it'd make sense for him as town to do that now, but he's being stubborn and isn't actually presenting his case on why i'm scum. Makes me think he doesn't have a well thought out case.
His JeX read and a bonus Murder read, I don't have any problems with his reads, I just think it's anti-town for him to be so hard to get about these reads on active players.
Not important.
-This- is his case on me, the epitome of the entire game him calling me scum is this. I expected more, much more, I also expected him not to contradict himself like he did in the blue highlighted part. Is this really it Levi? Is a part of your case really that you don't get the "vibe" I truly care about what i'm pursuing? I expected more.
Then some of this post is actually quite good until the next red segment. If i'm reading this right, he admits that he just found both me and Protean individually scummy. He was acting like there was some major connection between why one of the two of us is scum, either that still exists but he just won't share the reasoning, or he really just never had a good reason for that to begin with. This is scummy, no doubts about it either way this is scummy and looks like Levi made a huge slip-up.
Blah blah blah more lynch me.
Oh look, seems like my lynch isn't popular, now he's jumping to Arcane without reasons explained. Looks like he's trying to see how much interest there is in Arcane before pushing the slot, reeks of self preservation.
Pointless question because Potassium will post once he's caught up.
725 Tells me Protean is still cool with your wagon, so your biggest point is a result of ignorance.
I smell Levi trying to create an Arcane wagon quickly.
So in summary, the points against Levi are (in order of importance)
-The entirety of him trying to connect Protean and me at TvS for some reason, only for it to be we are individually scummy. (I think that's the point Levi tried making).
--Him shutting down discussion not along the lines of Protean or me for most of the game.
---Avoids explanation on various things throughout the game EX: when I asked for a deeper analysis of his Protean case and when I asked him for thoughts on any other players.
----
-----His case on me being weak
------
-------
--------Various instances where he did small anti-town things. Ex: The whole deal with him calling Ami the village idiot.
----------Recent push to Arcane Inferno which looks like pure self preservation.
@MOD May the hostess with the mostess edit to fix the spoiler tag?~<3
Also, i'm down to kick out Leviathan the party pooper any day. If you girls can't agree to that, I am OK with J going home only so we can scale down the party size<3~
Page 21: Some questioning, and him making a case on Levi. I'll be talking about the summary:
Him shutting down discussion outside of Protean/Dabooze makes sense playstyle/meta wise.
This point also doesn't mean he is scum, due to focusing on scumreads only.
He explains that his case on Dabuz is weak because Dabuze doesn't post as much as WL/Gorf and isn't as proactive.
That doesn't make him scum. (Calling me VI)
Reaching.
As you can see, this is why at a glance I don't support a Levi lynch.
So in conclusion, he opens with questioning to the JexS slot, as to which he backs down with a wishy washy stance, but has no reason to be wishy washy. Later on, he comes with questioning. He also comes with a vote on Levi, but it's short and parrots reasoning said in thread already. I do not find his 'case' on Levi that he brings up pages later to be convincing. Levi analysis seperate from my Dabuz read, coming up.
ok so like the game sped up a bit and i'm busy as all hell, plus i'm going to north carolina for a cool minute because i have to take this dog on an airplane to North Carolina
I am Leviathan. My experience ranges from Alpha to Omega. I am thedocsalive from South Park. Frozenflame from Food Court. Eor from Trigun. Kirby King from Spider-Manfia. Tom from Harry Potter. Ronike from Bad Idea. Xiivi from Wonderland. Macman from Samuel L. Jackson 2. Ryker from Batma(n)fia 2. Mayling from Down and Dirty. Overswarm from TMNT 2. adumbrodeus from Lord of the Rings. marshy from Tales of Symphonia. Chibosempai from Sonic the Hedgehog. Omni from Mario Kart. vanderzant from Villains. Evil Eye from Bioware. Zen from Castlevania. KevinM from Youtube Memes. Swiss from Nightmare Before Christmas. Kataefi from Resident Evil 4. th3kuzinator from Majora's Mask. Xonar from Fire and Lightning. J from Celebrity Rehab. Vult Redux from Earthbound.
And more that have slipped my mind for the time being. My most recent game can be found in the mini thread. Tell me, if you are truly the host of this sleepover, then why have you not shared the scumteam with us all? Are you Rosalina or merely a fluke?
I presume there to be 3 mafia in the game. I appreciate the kind words you have expressed towards me. Regarding your inquiry, did Caesar inform Pompeus of his infantry in echelon behind his cavalry? Did Napoleon inform Kutozov, Francis I, and Tsar Alexander of his decision to place the bulk of his army on his right center and opposite flank? Did Hannibal tell the Romans his procedure of operations in outwitting them at Cannae? My greatest weakness is as double-edged as the sword Zelda wields in my avatar. I thus see no reason to expose myself to my enemies. Also, can you prank me? It'd complete my outfit.
4.] I don't like where this site has gone in my absence. It seems to be acceptable to talk about nothing and pollute the thread with comments that will not lead to finding scum. I don't care about Studio Ghibli. I don't care that English is JeXs' second language. I don't care about who posts what under Amidamaru's account. I don't care about Werekill's Greninja. Townspeople, stop making this an environment a joke where scum can thrive with drivel being flung about. Also, stop using terminology incorrectly because it lends itself to being used against Town in a dishonest manner. This is for JeXs who is wrongly calling Bunzy a wagon. He has 2 votes.
5.] I am still pleased with my vote on Bunzy the Fraud. It is nice to know that spending half a page asking someone the same question in 50 different ways is thought to be an acceptable way to play D1. Something else has caught my eye but I'll give it time; a bud cannot be nipped when the flower is still in prebloom. Shan't be long 'fore the sickle's to swing at the time most ripe.
Thou's words and declaration of myself as your lord during your time of exile flatters me. I believe that I am one of the few who can understand you, my unpredictable friend. Know if thou shall prove thyself to be an ally of the kingdom that I will grant ye the title of squire, accompanying me on noble missions across the land. However, it would be folly for me to place that honor and responsibility unto you at this time.
Allow me to echo the words of Murderbush The Thorough as I repeat: Nothing is done for "just RVS." Stop thyself from falling into the foolish trap of utilizing that buzzword and allowing actions to be free of the scrutiny they deserve due to some arbitrary point in time in the game. Every action has reason regardless of when it takes place. The JeXs wagon (hardly a wagon, but I shall humor thee) can certainly give you reads. I implore thee to change your ways whilst thou art young.
Thou doth exclude me from thy council? 'Tis insulting; I hope it shall be rectified in a hasty manner. You ask for action. Action I shall give. You have alluded to the following suspicion and I would appreciate knowing if thou doth have a similar feeling of unease; judge if I am justified in my following offensive if you will.
4.] Townspeople, come 'round and hear me. I have reason to suspect that Protean- The Shifting is a villain due to the following reasons.
A.] Protean- The Shifting is reaching for his case, i.e., being dishonest in his bout with Amidamaru The Scatterbrained.
B.] Protean- The Shifting is subtly discrediting people in a subtle manner that does not aid the townsfolk. He is booing amongst the crowd during chaos as opposed to raising his arm to cast the stone.
A1.] I would like to point all persons reading this to scripture Book of Proteans, chapter 1, verse 128, also known as a "post" in some places the days. Therein we bear witness to Protean- throwing off his gloves in Amidamaru's direction. Words that Amidamaru has said prior are highlighted and quoted in an effort to showcase potential wrongdoings, specifically those of Amidamaru questioning JeXs The Youth repeatedly. He labels these words as "baiting", which is a cornerstone of my issue with this attack. What does baiting a slip even mean and how does it differ from inquiring a player of his motivations in order to ascertain alignment? I am no fool. Protean is implying that Amidamaru's persistence with The Young One is that of a liar hoping that the lad will fall flat on his face in a way that could easily be twisted into one of scum intent due to a shaky and thus false stance. The problem arises immediately after these words are quoted wherein Protean accuses Amidamaru of being fraudulent in trying to truly question The Young One's motivations by asserting that the questions would have stopped long before the fact were it to be the case in addition to accusing him of not truly trying to find the motivation. This, my friends, is malarkey in its purest form. Amidamaru did show a change in judgement in Book of Amidamaru, chapter 1, verse 119 wherein he unvotes young JeXs. Anyone reading intently can see that it was an instinctual drop of a vote determined by the answers given by The Young One in response to Amidamaru's barrage, i.e., doing exactly what Protean The Shifting accuses Amidamaru of not doing! The Shifting lives up to his name, somehow drawing the opposite conclusion of a clear-cut action done by The Scatterbrained. He is attributing a false motivation to an action that shows the opposite and I believe him to be manipulating the townsfolk in this assault as he lays the groundwork with which ensure The Scatterbrained to stumble over himself as he is wont do considering his title. Furthermore, The Shifting states that nothing in JeXs' play inherently changed when Amidamaru unvoted him. This actually works against Protean's original point that Amidamaru is trying to manipulate JeXs because Amidmaru's decision was fueled by clarification on JeXs' part as opposed to a different route taken.
B1.] I point you all to Book of Protean- chapter 1 verses 69, 70, 78, 141, and 166. These posts have no constructive purpose other than to make the mentioned contestants (JeXs, Amidamaru, JeXs, Alakaslam, myself) look incompetent, untrustworthy, foolish, annoying, and loquacious respectively. I don't believe this is a huge reason to suspect Protean of being an enemy of the kingdom, but it is worrying to see how quick he is to sling mud at players without further engaging them in a manner that might give him knowledge as to their alignment besides Amidamaru.
5.] I have not forgotten about Bunzy The Inquisitor nor his Great Waste of Bandwidth on the latter half of page 3 where he asks inane questions that prove to be fruitless which only gets worse when we realize that he has said nothing about far more interesting events past this. He is still the one I would love to see hang the most despite the length of the accusations I have towards Protean. That said, I find it highly unlikely that both of these candidates are Town and would be ecstatic to line them at the gallows and follow through consecutively.
6.] The tides of war are among us whilst the clock ticks over the battlefield wherein skirmishes are soon to be followed by great battles, my friends. Let us all choose a side and weigh in on these matters in ways that can lend themselves to stances which can be scrutinized. Know that among ye several shall die but embrace such a fact as it is inherent to the glory that we all seek in order to achieve victory.
“We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will.” - Chuck Palahniuk
I think his main point on Protein, is that Protein was saying that we weren't trying to read Jex, but that our unvote shows we were actually reading him by unvoting, by being convinced by his most recent explanation. Pink, this is things that WL usually does regardless of alignment (I think, saying this because Arcane stated this), and it makes sense that Levi not being current on Dgames meta, would take these actions as suspicious. Same goes for his reasoning on Dabuz. I'd take both of those as null, because
1. He can't know that it's something that WL or Dabuz do regardless of alignment.
2. Even if he's scum trying to pin these actions as suspicious, it doesn't actually show that he is scum doing so. Just that it's possible that he is. So independent of my read on Dabuz, it's null.
When you think you have scum, you lynch them. You are trapped in a close-minded mentality. There is no such thing as RVS. There is no given time limit during which you have to lynch scum. These are arbitrary titles and ideas that made their way into this atmosphere for various reasons. I think Protean is scum. I think if he is green, then Bunzy is most definitely scum. There is almost nothing that will change my mind on this meaning their flip is what I need to progress my reads. Flips require votes.
1.] Werekill, think of the actions that take place after I tell people to vote Protean- or any other player in conjunction with the context of where we are at in the Day. Half of the game is not even voting. No one has more than 3 votes. Many players can be considered null and lacking in contribution. While this is not a big deal considering the weekend, pressure on a slot to the point of asking for others' votes garners something for town: their behavior towards the slot that is in focus. Do you really think that everyone in the game is going to read mine and Murderbush's posts and immediately vote Protean-? No, but they'll naturally be prone to commenting on the subject due to its high visibility. It is, in essence, a method used to both vanquish my enemies as well as encourage the citizens to weigh in on them and a less redundant way of collecting opinions than asking everyone directly for their thoughts on him. So because I know a quick lynch will not actually occur, we are not giving up connections. There is no data showing that a longer Day is likelier to pay off more than in a shorter one.
That said, you seem a little anxious. I'm not particularly worried about what you do right now because you have at least expressed some opinions we can chew on while there are plenty of nulls sitting around.
2.] Protean-, I understand that you may simply think different than I would. That defense can be used for any action. I'm making a judgement call here. I don't think it's a coincidence that you're the only one who has interpreted Amidamaru's play the way you have; it reminds me of scum looking to contribute to the game with a different perspective for the sake of appearing as he is scumhunting.
1.] Amidamaru the Scatterbrained, I asked for your opinion because your flame died. I had thought you were going to join the offensive on Protean- but instead you quieted down. Your latest posts have been foul, with a Werekill vote and asking where I am when it has not even been 24 hours. Neither of these directions accomplish anything useful for town nor do they belong in this thread, living up to your title. I'm reading you as null.
2.] Bunzy, I have no interest in doing anything you asked me to do. I don't care that you disagree with my read. Deeper analysis will come in time and when appropriate. I'm looking at Protean- and you; there is a negligible chance that both of you are town. I don't care about J, he's fine, isn't a play, and a waste of time to talk about because discussing him is inconducive to the Town's win condition. Things like this reek of faking contribution (feel free to laugh at that accusation as well) by muddying the thread with irrelevant drivel. It's why you can get lynched.
3.] mUrDErBUSh, the bolded was me disliking Protean-'s case on Amidamaru and wanting to lynch him for it, but not wanting to jump at it too soon for the sake of letting people react naturally to it. And yes, you are right in your hunch that there is scum between Protean- and Bunzy. I am just waiting for the multitude of people who have expressed interest in Protean- being lynched to place down their votes so I can progress with my reads.
I was really expecting you to come in here and join the wagon on me. Despite it being a hot issue, you chose to hint at another direction and point out something in Arcane Inferno's play I think is legitimate at a time when I think you could have placed your chips on my lynch relatively scot-free. I still have reservations about your slot, but this action shows you're not just looking for the easy way out and thus gives me enough pause to switch lanes. I'm also realizing that I won't be able to rally Town against you today due to the inordinate amount of leeway the townsfolk are giving you.
This is actually part of the reason I pushed for your lynch earlier as hard as I did. I thought we had a good foundation for the game to progress on your flip which explains why I pushed as hard as I did; most wagons tend to lose steam if you give Town enough time to second guess themselves. Now, we're a few days from deadline and I'm comparing the vote count to the player list and seeing that if I do go, Town will be stuck with several slots generally considered null with some inactives. And if I don't go, it'll probably be some switch to an inactive on the grounds of, "Well, most of the active players are alright, so let's trim the fat" which while justifiable is disappointing considering the conflict between the active slots thus far.
1.] My reasoning for wanting Bunzy to be lynched is simple. I have not seen one instance of him biting into anything like I expect townies generally to do. He asks a lot of questions, but I have not seen anything fruitful come of them. His contribution to the game is a few questions early on towards JeXs which he then says afterwards that he sees no scum motivation from what he is doing and then saying that the Protean- wagon was poorly founded (which is fine, I don't find that opinion worrisome), then hopping my wagon when I tell him that I'm not going to respond to him in the manner that he would like, then votes me because "You are scum if you don't do what I say." That is it. His scumhunting consists of throwing away an accusation towards JeXs and voting me for whatever reasons. So, he thinks he's wrong on JeXs and I know he's wrong on me. I didn't like him asking me about J "latching onto what I say" because why wouldn't he just ask J himself why he was doing so and get an answer out of him if it bothered him? I do not get the vibe that Bunzy truly cares about what he is pursuing at a given time; I do not know what he is trying to accomplish other than fit in with the waves that Town goes through.
2.] I don't want to lynch Protean- anymore for reasons I stated earlier. I do have a question though. Protean-, specifically the Gorf half, earlier you had called me Town around a time when I was actually attacking your slot. Now I'm scum for attacking your slot. Can you walk me through the progression here? What is "pushing way too hard" and why is it scummy?
3.] I say JeXs has been transparent because I get the sense that he is not putting much thought into his responses and posts. For example, this morning when Amidamaru was asking questions to both him and myself, he would respond within literally a minute. He did this earlier with his initial clash with the same slot. JeXs is not planning his posts ahead of time. What do you mean by feeling disconnected from me?
4.] mUrDErBUSh, here's a question for you in an effort to get you to look at things from my perspective. If you could have me and JeXs lynched in a fairly quick manner, would you? That's assuming you're confident in your scum reads. There does not have to be a direct correlation between 2 slots (not that I'm accusing you of doing so. I can already tell that you're trying to set me up to be a partner for JeXs ahead of time) to want them both dead. If I find both individually scummy, then yes, I will switch between them whenever I can if I see one can't get gone. My analysis of your JeXs post is that I think it's wrong. I wouldn't fight the lynch, but my vote's where it needs to be. Also, are you lying about your town read on Arcane Inferno? That'd be pretty clever.
1. Potassium - Null. Alakaslam literally did nothing.
2. Leviathan -
3. #HBC | Amidamaru - Town. I don't agree with a lot of his pushes but I get the sense that he genuinely believes in them, is trying to pick peoples' brains, and trying to force people to take as many stances as possible for the sake of analysis. He has an instantaneous posting style that I believe is difficult to replicate as scum.
4. BarDulL - Nulltown. Nothing from him looks sinister or that it has an agenda behind it. I like how he pushed back on Arcane Inferno a bit earlier; it really read to me like he felt that Arcane could be scum trying to look like he was scumhunting by targeting a background player who hadn't done much.
5. #HBC Bunzy - Scum. Asks questions that have already been answered or can easily be inferred by thinking critically. Has literally no unique pushes. I think he's taking advantage of the fact that people dislike me to get rid of his most vocal opponent. He needs to go.
6. Protean- - Nulltown. I strongly disliked his entrance into the game. He changes his mind a lot, but is at least actively engaging people. The biggest point in his favor in my mind was how he chose to leave my wagon alone at a very opportune time where he could have joined, pushed it, and gotten away without looking too bad from it. Like Bunzy is doing now.
7. JeXs - Town. I've been over this. His posts strike me as unplanned; it's similar to how Amidamaru will post a mile a minute.
8. Gova - Null. This slot is pretty much as null as it gets and I won't know more until I either see him get more involved or the playerlist narrows down.
9. J - Nulltown. He has had a consistent scum read (he will likely tell you it's a "feel", but I know where it's going) on Arcane Inferno that I enjoy. There's subtle differences in his play from the Mini that strike me likelier to come from a townie than scum. His comment on how he is not going to do anything is not scummy like people have said; it's the opposite. Scum don't say "I'm going to watch what happens" as often as Town does; they just do it.
10. mUrDErBUSh - Town. He's trying to find scum. He's trying to get stances. He's trying to get people to comment on those stances and move towards lynching his suspects.
11. Arcane Inferno - Scum. This read is a newer one as I considered the playerlist and tried to make my mind up on who other than Bunzy I would enjoy seeing go the most. I don't like his push on BarDulL. I don't like his push on J. I don't like his lack of a hard stance on my slot; I feel that if scum were discussing who to set up to look like a partner that I would probably be one of the best people to do that for and that he's trying to do that with his emphasis on not having a read on me. Almost everyone in this game has a read on me and I find it difficult to believe that this slot is having as hard a time in ascertaining one on me as he states he is. I feel like he's playing the long game and Town will ignore him for quite some time.
12. Werekill - Town. The moment that really hits me with Werekill in this game was when Protean- was getting heat. Wagons in general are, for me, some of the better opportunities to get reads on people. It's when the pressure is as high as it gets and there's generally a baseline on how a given alignment will react. Werekill added his vote to the wagon when he was wondering what to do in the thread. It really struck me as a Townie who felt like he needed to do something, anything, to try and make something happen in the game.
1. Him asking for my reads. It forces me to give a stance on Protean. While he thinks that I, being the guy pushed by protean, should be able to read Protean due to that. (And that my opinion as the person being pushed is needed)
2. Him backing down on his Protein push. It seems like a safe play to salvage his own slot, instead of keeping his neck out to slay a slot he believes is scum. Yet this is similar to Murderbush giving WL an easy out to see if he falls for it as scum. Still, I don't see how that could be a good way in getting a read for either Levi or MB. "hey he didn't do what I'd expect him to do as scum, must not be scum." He explained that he would expect him to stay on Levi's wagon because it would be easy. Even though both of them explained themselves well, it's still seems like him backing down to salvage. For MB, more like changing a read simply to change a read. For MB's case, I would think Scum + Scum, but in Levi's case, I would think Scum v Town.
3. Him expecting me to get on protein. Not really a concern, but I find it a good point because it shows he believed I'd support him, even though that post wasn't made by me. (As you can see, as I came in, I was conflicted on WL the whole time, my other head had a different thought)
4. His vote onto Dabooze. He says he would try his best to get him lynched, after the wagon on him breaks. Either way, his vote onto him is quite... unimpressive. Not even extra reasoning.
5. I'm not feeling his stance on JexS. JexS comes across as being too honest. Only when times he cannot answer due to him being scum (Ie: Doesn't know why he's being passive) Yet, this is not a big concern to me because [meta]. When it comes to who he believes is absolutely scum, I feel he would be mostly accurate (if town), but when it comes to those who may be scum but not too obvious, then he might not see it. I'll bring up examples of what I mean below (meta). In the following quote, you can see that he looks at scumJ > townhotcakes. Yet, hotcakes was exibiting true scumminess. He was my top pick upon replacing in. He wanted to lynch them back to back, and did not want to distract from J's lynch. He even said to just hammer and I was fine with it. Lulz, J flips scum and me and alaka clear ourselves. Anyways, Hotcakes turns out to be town doc, and Rayquaza, the guy who is acting confused and voting off of the wagon J was starting, turns out to be scum. The guy who he was saying was not a play. So, I can see aspects of that here too.
1.] I pulled the quotes above and inquired players about them because they lend themselves to determining alignment. At the time that GM was making these statements in the game, nothing of worth was being posted nor had anyone attacked each other in ways common to early game. I enjoyed how swift GM was to start questioning Kary and actually didn't mind when he voted me and kept with the pressure. That is because I find townies likelier to stick out their necks and cause conflict and controversy as opposed to scum who are trying to survive. When I read those posts, the thought that struck me was that GM didn't care how he was perceived by others in the thread and this is reinforced in 5401: "I realize that it [his reason for voting me] may not be 'pretty scummy', but we barely have any leads." Instead of arguing to save face and reach to justify his position as I assume most scum would, he opted to admit the weakness of the vote and stand by it.
2.] As such, I'm not keen on J's attitude with regards to GM. GM is swinging his sword looking for something to stick, and J takes issue with the slot because he is - as stated in 5433 - "finger pointy", which is a ridiculous thing to scumlean someone for in the context of D1. That is how almost anyone approaches the game at that point and J taking issue with it to the point that it evokes such a label from him reeks of dishonesty.
3.] Captain Hotcakes, the term 'read' means what alignment a player is guessing another player's to be.
1.] J, the reason behind me finding your push dishonest is implied in my original post; I believe you were reaching for a reason to label GM scummy. I'm choosing to look at it that way because if I wrote it off as you investigating GM without challenging I would stay uncomfortable with you and not learn anything about your alignment nor how anyone else felt about you. Yes, you could be trying to get a read, but I'm going with the other side of the WIFOM coin.
2.] @GM_3826, if you're not going to play, then request a replacement. If you are town, you are screwing over your faction because we have 2 slots who are content to leave their vote on you and your silence deprives us of any meaningful interaction from that wagon. That doesn't include forcing town to lynch you by virtue of being an inactive and putting us in LYLO D2.
3.] Captain Hotcakes can get lynched as well. When contrasted to other new slots like myself, GM, and Rayquaza, there is a marked difference in behavior. All of us have tried to get involved in the game while Captain Hotcakes has been too much in the background for me. I think he's scum playing the noob card to appear as innocent and I've seen no attempt to find scum from him. If people want me to pull quotes on Hotcakes and go into further detail, then just ask. I might do it anyway when I get some free time later today, but what I've said here is true and should be enough, especially when coupled with the fact that I like the other slots better, i.e. process of elimination.
4.] @Gheb_01, it's been a day since I last posted. No need to prod someone who is active.
5.] We only have 2 days 'til deadline. We need to attain a lynch because I do not feel like waiting 'til the last minute to off someone and we have perfectly good candidates. Town will optimize their chances of winning this game if Captain Hotcakes and J are lynched back-to-back; there is no way that both of those slots are town. Pick one and let's roll, y'all.
1.]When you have someone at the guillotine, you let it fall. You don't tell the executioner to let his last words influence the sentence.
2.] Rayquaza is not a play for this dayphase. J or Captain Hotcakes. J. Hotcakes. J. Hotcakes. Say it with me if you must. There is no need to distract ourselves from killing scum. J. Hotcakes. J. Hotcakes.
3.] Ranmaru, vote J and Alakaslam can bless us with the slam dunk. Kary is wrong to pump the brakes on this lynch and that goes despite what faction J is aligned with here. We go Hotcakes tomorrow. I expect you to carry the torch tomorrow on that lynch should I be offed tonight.
But upon reading that, I don't see how he doesn't find scum in JexS. He would see that JexS isn't actively looking for scum, and can see that his bardull 'push' was nothing because Protein pointed out how he wasn't even thinking about bardull being suspicious, just trying to paint him as scum.
6. I don't like saying that I'm foul for calling him out in 24 hours. It's a valid point as I was impatient, but he says nothing of Murderbush doing so as well.
So yeah. In conclusion, I had concerns with his slot earlier, but backed down due to meta. Him doing the 'back to back' thing is null to me because meta. I also expect him to be ok with hammering without a claim, or just having a fast lynch. @Lore
. Yet I still vibe scum from him. For example, him moving from Protein to Dabuz. It doesn't seem like a protown move. Just "Well how about Dabuz?" Not "No, we are lynching Protein". Nor even trying to rally people to lynch Dabuz. It also vibes of him not really fighting his lynch. Yet like I explained, it's similar to Murder's read change. He expected Protein to fall in a trap, and he didn't, so it means he's fine. Same thing for Levi's change. Another example, is his read on JexS. He finds him town for little reasoning, because his posts are 'unplanned', but I don't believe he doesn't see more than that.
Yet this is why I would prefer JexS ultimately lynch above Levi or others. It would greatly help clear my reads, and him flipping scum would be good as we would be already one step ahead of the game. Also, yes, I do think it would be worth lynching Dabuz independently of Levi. Meaning, regardless of Levi's flip. So @mUrDErBUSh, I implore you to look at Dabuz with extra scrutiny in the future.
I'll state whether or not I'll support Levi's lynch after I get responses to my questions and see your new analysis on JexS and show me comparisons between town/scum laundry. (meaning, show me what you'd expect scum laundry to do as opposed to a town laundry, while telliing me why you didn't see it in TT mafia, if that was the case)
1. Why would it be important for the person being pushed to give opinions on the person pushing them?
2. Why did you open rvs with voting Bunzy? Just wondering.
3. What do you think of JexS not being proactive. Also, you say his actions are unplanned. What do you think of him simply being too honest to seem town? Also, what do you think of JexS being passive here, and him not being able to come up with a reason to being passive?
1. Who would you look into upon a Levi Town/Scum flip? (I want to see both directions)
2. What do you think of my concerns with Levi, and the meta I brought up?
3. How does it affect your case? (I'll look at that straight after I post this, but might not need to post a response to it as I may have covered the feels already)
4. You say you find Laundry scum with precision. Can you tell me how to find Laundry Scum? I ask this because I'm not that good at reading him. I also think you read him as town in Time Travellers mafia, but he turned out scum because loljuly hammer. (Iirc) You see, I find concerns with Levi's slot but I'm skeptical because of how you are reading Laundry, and I don't like his interactions with JexS, and his interaction with me wrt Dabuz wall question. (Which is why I asked him a q about it)
5. How are you reading Dabuz so far?
6. Also, as I posted my analysis, I expect you to post your new analysis on JexS.
I probably have a question lingering in the back of my head, but hate that I can't bring it out. Dang it zen I want to post more.... (I'll post anyways once I remember it, or maybe I already did)
1. Why did you try to shut me up when asking Dabuz why he wasn't blessing us with his walls/analysis?
2. Opinion on Gova?
3. You find Levi suspicious, so I am interested in hearing who you would look upon a Levi Town/Scum flip as well.
4. Can you also re-read JexS and tell me what you think. I just don't want you to let him get away.
I think you were one to find Levi concerning due to 'fast lynching', so I tagged you there so you could see the meta. That's all. Basically looking at things I think were public concerns in thread that I have seen played out in the newbie when he was town.
I would like your opinions on my analysis. Anyways, I'm out. Going to eat.
@#HBC | Leviathan
1. Why would it be important for the person being pushed to give opinions on the person pushing them?
2. Why did you open rvs with voting Bunzy? Just wondering.
3. What do you think of JexS not being proactive. Also, you say his actions are unplanned. What do you think of him simply being too honest to seem town? Also, what do you think of JexS being passive here, and him not being able to come up with a reason to being passive?
1.] I think that if you're being pushed by a player, that you should be analyzing that player's intent in pushing you. You have perspective that others don't in knowing that your alignment so might be able to deduce if the player attacking you is putting any real thought into their push.
2.] I glanced at the playerlist and threw out a vote on someone I've never played with before. I thought maybe it'd catch their attention.
3.] JeXs' passiveness in itself doesn't bother me much. Most of the game is. Pull me the quote where he apparently floundered on giving an explanation and I'll get back to you on that last part.
In the mini I was more active and I was just so sure that potato was scum there, don't really remember why though. Over here I'm kind of being more passive and even after reading the thread through I can't really find much to latch on to like I did against potato.
More honest than you should be. Basically the vibe I get from him stating that he's being passive. I say 'too honest' as in he may think that being honest about everything he can would make him seem town. To me I see no reason for him to state that he is passive in this game without knowing why he is being passive in the first place.
I think you were one to find Levi concerning due to 'fast lynching', so I tagged you there so you could see the meta. That's all. Basically looking at things I think were public concerns in thread that I have seen played out in the newbie when he was town.
I would like your opinions on my analysis. Anyways, I'm out. Going to eat.
It was less finding him concerning for it and more finding the concept of a faster lynch on D1 distasteful. I prefer to have more interactions, which we're getting now!
Him moving from Protean to Dabuz makes sense; he flat out said that P and D were TvS iirc, so why did he need to explain that he was moving to the other person in the pair?
I feel like Levi can handle himself, so I'm not going to argue every point. I will say that it hasn't changed my read on Levi in the slightest.
Your Dabuz case basically just reaffirmed my own beliefs for the most part, so I don't have much to comment.
What exactly is making you read Jexs as not just new Town? I really can't see him being scum, am I missing something lainfully obvious like with J?
Alright, fair enough. First off frustration can be faked. I take it as null. Plus I think many players and myself have already stated that it would be hard to see emotion from him unless he forced it. I mean... Jexytron3000, remember? Anyways, the difference between newtown and newscum is subtle. What I'm looking at is what he is doing. He isn't trying as much. I would also encourage you to look at his other games to see what he does and if it's similar to here, especially the newbie. I'm looking at his current games but I can't say anything about them yet for obvious reasons.
Meta from the newbie, I would expect him to ask a few more questions and vote a little bit more than he has here. That's all. I mean he's waiting and doesn't post until I ask questions about him. This leads into him not knowing why he is being passive. Him being passive is the whole problem I have with him. But he doesn't know why. Can you at least see why I am having trouble believing him? I ask that you look at him hard, please.
@#HBC | Amidamaru
Actually, I don't remember Jexy. Mind explaining him?
I think Jexs is being a bit passive, but he's answering questions at least. He's probably just fading back into the background to avoid attention until the wagon passes because he isn't enjoying the pressure.
... Ok, admittedly that can be more than a bit scummy but I can definitely see it coming from New Town.
@JeXs
I'm curious for a moment, so let's play pretend. All of a sudden you have a mind control ring, and you can convince everyone to unanimously vote for one person and end the Day. Who will you lynch with this power, and why? Give a detailed answer.
@#HBC | Amidamaru
Actually, I don't remember Jexy. Mind explaining him?
I think Jexs is being a bit passive, but he's answering questions at least. He's probably just fading back into the background to avoid attention until the wagon passes because he isn't enjoying the pressure.
... Ok, admittedly that can be more than a bit scummy but I can definitely see it coming from New Town.
@JeXs
I'm curious for a moment, so let's play pretend. All of a sudden you have a mind control ring, and you can convince everyone to unanimously vote for one person and end the Day. Who will you lynch with this power, and why? Give a detailed answer.
I'm going to go with Bardull. Explained it previously but Protean called it mechanical which I still don't understand. Unless someone convinces me otherwise that answer will be Bardull. Would be fine with lynching J though.
I'm going to go with Bardull. Explained it previously but Protean called it mechanical which I still don't understand. Unless someone convinces me otherwise that answer will be Bardull. Would be fine with lynching J though.
Fair enough. I'm not personally feeling a Bardull lynch, but ok. He's just too inactive for me to have a real opinion on him, and he would just be a policy lynch in my eyes.
It certainly seems possible, but I meant it as him just trying to get away from the pressure and chill out. It can certainly be scummy, but in context of his other actions I see it as not taking pressure well.
No. It's because I didn't find anything to latch onto like I did with Potato in the mini. Also because you've been bombarding me with so many questions that I get annoyed and don't have as much time to read through as many times I did in the mini.
also, ran, i think, after toDay, your best bet is to leave jex the **** alone for the first half of toMorrow. let the guy breathe, you're way too high strung on him and it's as if you're making points out of thin ****in air. give yourself a chance to observe the poor guy, cuz i can almost guarantee that he's NOT on the table toDay.
I challenge you to tell me what exactly seems like I'm doing that. But I can give him some breathing room. Starting now. But please answer my q's. Thanks. I'm out, going to sleep.
I challenge you to tell me what exactly seems like I'm doing that. But I can give him some breathing room. Starting now. But please answer my q's. Thanks. I'm out, going to sleep.
I have the absolute least amount of motivation to do that. I'm just gonna say that you're slot has had him in front of you this entire game, to the point where your read of him is literally warping the rest of the game around him. You have reads based on him. You have weird suspicions about my slot based on him. You have weird suspicions on other slots based on him. You refuse to move until you hear from him first. Your iso on levi/dabunz is the only damn thing in the game that you've done that in some way did not loop back to Jexs. It's maddening because you seem like you're so sure he's scum but instead of trying to convince everyone else that he's scum, you continue to drag more useless information out of him that ****s up the legitimacy of his own reactions and suspect anyone who even remotely considers him town.
out of my lynch pool, drew made good points about certain posts of his but unlike him i ultimately consider them null. would like to see him get his hands a bit more dirty.
3. You find Levi suspicious, so I am interested in hearing who you would look upon a Levi Town/Scum flip as well.
It's what Gorf said. I want J dead first because I'm more confident J will flip scum. I still think Leviathan is scummy to his own extent and Gorf has already elaborated on that. If the lynch is meant to be Leviathan, I am completely fine with it. Just know that my vote is 90% likely to start on J tomorrow.
JeXs Did you have any reason to follow the wagon when voting me aside from it seeming slightly town?
BarDulL What's your current opinion on Jex?
