Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Wiisp]

Y

immediately moved them to the top when it was possible.

Can you point me to where this happened? Because the last list I seen basically had them in null

 

[Wiisp]

AAAAAAAAAAASGJADLSJGS:GASDJGLASFJD I was iso'ing gorf and I found this post and I haaaaate thiiiiiiis wiiiiifooooom defeeeense

Back to Gorf

Lmao I might just die on this hill now, he is starting to look gross

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

That in mind I'm pretty sure Eido would put his partner in the middle category but that doesn't forgive #1600

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

#HBC | Gorf
I'm finna let you do your thing, but associative based reads will burn you one day, I still have no idea where I wanna place Mao yet. Also this is kinda hypocritical of me given my poor reactions to pressure, but there is little need to poke the beast here.

we still have the whole Day, im gonna be looking back on toDay to see what the case might be for ww!ff.

what other type of read do you expect me to get when im isoing a flipped ww? i don’t have to read the guy anymore, and im tryna find his partner. i was townread mao through the Day yesterDay, im gonna have to read her iso and get another read on her slot. But poeing from eidos POV, mao seems most likely to me

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

on top of all that, i still think scum!ff makes more sense as mafia than as ww.

 

[Nerbins]

AAAAAAAAAAASGJADLSJGS:GASDJGLASFJD I was iso'ing gorf and I found this post and I haaaaate thiiiiiiis wiiiiifooooom defeeeense

Back to Gorf

Yeah in retrospect not my greatest defense

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Alright so I re-read Gorf in its entirety but I don't have many quotes, just wanted to get my thoughts out. There's like 5 pages in the search bar to scrub through but these are my impressions.

your noob is showing

Rhand do you have an updated exlight read since your wall where you called him null?

• To me, it seemed like Gorf spent a majority of D1 conversing with ExLight. Granted that was his primary scumread but to be what I'm getting at is that he didn't really look elsewhere. The entirety of the day he discussing a very small group of people and writing off basically everyone else.

i am super down for whysper

im down to lynch gellnick too but the only thing that makes me not in love with a gellnick or whysper lynch is the lack of interactions theyve had/people have had with them

• Besides ExLight, his scumreads remained pretty constantly on Whysper, Gellnick and I, and most of their posts can be summed up as sussing these few people or just conversing with whatever was happening at the time. However, with the piece in mind about his dissuasion from doing gellnick or whysper, he was mostly just talking about his scumread without having any intention to push it. He only voted ExLight and I for the entirety of D1 until he hammered (which doesn't really matter because it helps him in this scenario to hammer as scum.) The only exception to this was that he scumread Wiisp until the cop claim. Imo he didn't say anything super alignment indicative on 1/27 until the Ex vote; to me it was mostly just backseat commentary on the Swiss/Rhand talks. So I guess he's felt pretty static and I guess I expected more in hindsight. He's still funny af but from a game standpoint I feel this isn't out of the realm of his scum game.

(10)UP (sorry bro, it be like that sometimes)

• Also in particular I wasn't a fan of this after comment, feels like he knows I might be town but its okay because "sometimes it be like that". I mean... yeah, sometimes it does be like, being scumread isn't super out of the ordinary in a game of mafia. It just felt like a reassurance like "I know you're town but I need to have somebody else in my 'can die' slot that isn't my scummate." Which that's going to be my next jump-off point. His scumreads are all pretty bland imo, like it's just been a bunch of people he hasn't played with much +me. Like when you're looking at people he knows and doesn't know, most of the people he knows are ranked higher, seemingly for that reason, while people he hasn't had much experience with are ranked lower. While there's definitely some merit into having background experience with certain players, it feels like a bit of a cop out because it can once again be backed up like "sorry, I haven't really seen enough of your games to recognize whether or not you're town, nothing personal". While that is definitely a true statement, like he hasn't seen gellnick's or whysper's town or scum games, and it is indeed nothing to be taken personally, that's what makes it scary imo, because it can be withdrawn just like that, especially if he wasn't actively trying to push for gellnick or whysper at the time and was mainly focusing on Ex's open wolfing. I do kinda want to hear a new readslist from Gorf on the premise that while Ex was definitely spewing scum, Shurian has flipped that slot in my mind personally to something I can definitely get behind at times.

Eidos final readslist:


ExLight / Swiss / Gorf / Wiisp - Comfortable. Could be a Power Wolf here.
Scarlet / Mao / Osie / Frozen - Not sure, need more. Scum could fake it here.
Wam / Rhand / Gellnick / Whysper / Chaco - Not a fan. Would vote here toDay.

this list makes me more in favor of Swiss has no reason to kill eido, and i can’t them as mates

also reaffirms my belief that ff seems most likely to orchestrate this kill if i take rhand out of the equation

unvote
Vote: frozenflame

Eido had Chaco in his final scumpool but really that could be sheeping and waverable. I’d rather see what his actions were with the Chaco wagon as it went through the Day before I decide on who I like more between ww!mao and ww!poyzin

• Now moving onto D2, what I've noticed is that Gorf has been searching primarily for the WW. And... honestly, that's probably the right call here. Taking out the final WW completely eliminates a night kill, which is pretty gamechanging for town and would put town in a much better spot compared to if they took out a mafia, debatably. But while it's better for town (I think), it is exponentially better for mafia because they get ownership of the traitor, and they have both of their teammates, putting the town in a really tricky spot on the next day. Which, because of this, I do think that Gorf's push onto the WW is likely genuine, but that's the fears of multiball. I do think Gorf is a pretty strong candidate to be mafia, but like at the same time I really do like his towncore in particular (minus him) of Swiss/Osie/Rhand/Wiisp, which is pretty close to my own. But yeah, just because somebody is pushing onto WW doesn't rule them out of being mafia which I think could be at play here. That in mind, I don't really want to go for Gorf here tonight because I could very well be paranoid on this point, especially coming from a place where I hard townread him the prior day.

i have a strong idea im getting nk’d or im horribly incorrect. maybe i am arrogant

• I also wanted to draw attention to this post ; this works if he says this as mafia, because he knows he isn't getting one of the NK's, and it dissuades the other from going for him when they could be making a different play that "subverts expectations", or if they're afraid of a doc being on him. Which, now that we're on the topic, when it does come down to finding the mafia, it could be a good idea to look into who townread Eido at the time; like because a town and a ww died, we know which faction killed who. The SR kill made sense because they claimed TPR, but we know that the mafia thought Eido would be a good NK, unless somehow they knew he was ww at which point oop.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

He only voted ExLight and I for the entirety of D1 until he hammered

Actually this might not be true, I skimmed through RVS.

That in mind, despite everything I said, Gorf is null for me because he did say a lot of things that I really liked and agreed with, but I didn't feel exceptionally comfortable to the point of putting him in a towncore of my own.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Update: Gorf did vote Rhand in RVS (who also recently joined + gellnick/whysper) before putting Wiisp at the bottom of the list, but then Wiisp cop claimed and Ex was next which is where Gorf was at for the rest of the Day for the most part.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Also in particular I wasn't a fan of this after comment, feels like he knows I might be town but its okay because "sometimes it be like that". I mean... yeah, sometimes it does be like, being scumread isn't super out of the ordinary in a game of mafia. It just felt like a reassurance like "I know you're town but I need to have somebody else in my 'can die' slot that isn't my scummate."

lol no i mean sometimes it be like that, replacing into a slot that a lot of people scumread, myself included (at least at the time)

i didn’t really start to develop a read on exlight until around pg 8-10, and I had enough scumreads and enough can live reads to warrant me focusing in on like 7 people and writing off the other 6 for the Day, with some more than others. interpret my play how you wanna interpret my play, but to me, that’s called “making townreads and scumreads and trying to see who you’d wanna lynch.”

Off the top of my head, i got an early scumread on rhand, felt weird about ff’s first post but then felt better after his 2nd, made a good few townreads, and had to reread Chaco to start feeling like he was scummy, and then the longer he was gone, the better I felt about the read. I’m sure I did more than that too, beyond “just scumreading gellnick, whysper, exlight and you throughout the Day.”

You say I rank people higher cuz I’ve played with them and rank them lower cuz I haven’t? With the OG roster, I had only played with 3 people. 1 of them was Chaco, who I scumread. I had Swiss as a null townlean, and ff was a null townlean that worked up to that. That point seems made up. I also generally only use meta in the same way wiisp was with rhand: to say “nah that’s probably nai”

im gonna go out on a limb here and say that you have a fear of me being town here cuz of that mafia game you brought up earlier from two summers ago where i basically bodied town. and that’s fine, but i just think it’s clouding your judgment of my play.

 

[osieorb18]

on top of all that, i still think scum!ff makes more sense as mafia than as ww.

Sure. Let's go for this or Mao then.

Vote: Nerbins

 

[Chop Chop]

Vote Count

Detective Mao (2) - Shurian, Gorf
Nerbins (2) - Poyzin, Osie
FrozenFlame (1) - Rhand
Poyzin (1) - Detective Mao

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

so yeah my schedule this week just got absolutely ****ing steamrolled, I'm going to be insanely busy from now until the 11th or 12th and I really have no way around it. definitely not going to have time for an in depth re-read by EoD today so right now I'm just focusing on doing an eido iso and trying to parse some WW mate ideas from that to help yall pick. just gonna end up sheeping town consensus pick for the mate at EoD unless yall do something really crazy so yeah don't expect a heavy lift from me this day phase though I can understand wanting to just yeet me on that basis alone and I'd be a hypocrite if I asked for mercy on the inactivity front so yeah, just want to be upfront so yall can treat my slot accordingly. like I said, IRL bull**** should be over by the 12th latest so if I get to see a D3 ill def pick up the pace before that EoD assuming this just stays 120/24 until games over

This started quick

Vote: Chaco

eido is new to the game but has good instincts and I don't think he'd shy away from mate voting in RVS, not putting much weight on this though

Who knows who here? I'm at work so can deep dive in to this thread more tonight, but a good start for me is to figure out the pre-existing relationships between people.

Swiss Rhand you two know each other well?

this actually reads as genuine curiosity here, I think eido is actually hunting in a sense here, trying to understand the early swiss/rhand interactions. if eido were mates with either of these slots I think he asks this question in private. almost def not ww!swiss or ww!rhand

Swiss any examples of games you've played?

unvote
vote: Whysper

I'm voting randomly for now.

You said Whysper can die too. Is that something you're able to elaborate on? It seems strong.

more real attempts to read swiss here, unless eido got crazy good at theatre really fast and is pulling a turbo early interact strat with a player he's never played with before this game. my money isn't on the latter. looking back this switch to whysper is weirder than it came off at first glance, second RVS vote is just bizarre and he's baiting someone to give him a reason to wagon

This is my second game. First game was Apex here.

Whysper doesn't have much play thus far. I'll update you as their play develops. Right now it's a random vote. Let me know if you have any insights on them. The game is early for me and I'm observing who knows who, playstyles etc.

lol more baiting someone else to justify the vote for him, this is a weird way to bus, prob not a mate in the whysper slot

Swiss Are you able to link me a game you've played?

again actually trying to read the swiss slot, or just the craziest clunkiest theatre I've seen in a lot time but yeah no way swiss is the mate

@Chaco You able to give more on your thoughts about Gorf? I'm referring to your post here:

Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

Its weird he proclaims to not want to control the game, when he literally is the reason we are where we are. Thank you but I can't take all the credit, Gorf has been productive too. This is me being hands off btw.

smashboards.com

What's different about it?

I think he's also actually trying to get info to inform a potential meta read on gorf here, prob not ww!gorf

man the more and more I read eidos post the more I realize he was just tunneling swiss and his interactions and looking to posture himself based on town consensus, weirdly myopic and like playing "wait and see," but again its way too myopic of swiss for swiss to be a mate

lot of attacking the wiisp slot early, not that ww!wiisp makes any sense given the cop claim instead of seer, plus as capable I think eido is of bussing I don't see him going this hard on his mate this early

I'll come online later tonight but my head is here:

Swiss / Wiisp / Scarlet / Mao / Gorf
Frozen / Rhand / Wam / Chaco / ExLight
3DSNinja / Gellnick / Whysper

Not ordered. Comfortable with the top row.
Middle row feels ambiguous. I'm thinking about this row.
Bottom row straight up inactive. Gellnick still stands out to me here.

first real reads list, big middle section is very obviously meant to hide something imo, make a weird fake read "blend in" or to keep a slot open for him as an option down the line. doubt mate is in bottom group because they're all inactives at that point in the game so he's just picking easy targets

Fine with Eido at the moment as well, forgot to add that before.

weird for chaco slot to stick it's neck out for eido here, like he says he forgot to include it in an earlier post where he was saying he was townreading mao, rhand, swiss and gorf and he thought it was important enough to make a whole second post to make sure we knew he liked the eido slot, hmmmm

Who are you referring to here in the bolded?

You got any insights in to how you feel the Mafia would have played around Swiss' attack on you?

this also feels genuinely curious, prob not ww!rhand

@gellnick How did you come to the conclusion that Rhand is confidently Town? All you've mentioned of the read is that he's done nothing wolfy. I'm talking about these 2 quotes specifically:

some aggro on gellnick slot here, picking an inactive to sink his teeth into? again Im not seeing eido doing early bus here so prob not the mate, also he aggros mao for townreading the gellnick slot so I think he was legit trying to build some momentum on that slot and turn the conversation there

Rhand has felt most alive in the thread when he has been pressured. Is that normal behaviour from him?

It's concerning to me because now that he's been given space from Swiss, it doesn't feel like he's doing anything productive with it.

Rhand Did you get back to me on this?:

Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

ok first off lemme Unvote now let's go Yeah, he took an i from my name! I had to replace it with a y instead. :) oh boy Wiisp and Whysper I'll try to not confuse you two So let's all claim now was that serious because I kinda hate this suggestion Eido - anyone with a join date later...

smashboards.com

and again more attempts to actually read rhand

Reading this all through, I don't support the Swiss/Wiisp wagons.

I'm leaning in this group right now:

Wam / Exlight / Scarlet / Rhand / Gellnick / Chaco
3DSNinja (Osie) / Whysper

It's not ordered. If I had to refine this, I would hit one of Scarlet/Chaco. I would hit Gellnick. I would hit Whysper.

The Scarlet/Chaco fiasco is weird. Chaco reads like he has a backdoor answer to everything, and felt nervous when responding to Scarlet's pressure. By nervous I mean over-talking his feelings to survive the pressure. I appreciate others have said he is Townie, so I'm up for talking this through if anyone has any insights.

I like Scarlet's push on Chaco because it was against the grain. They feel fixated in that area as time went on. I don't know too much about them outside of this and need to see more content now.

Gellnick's reads a little too careful for my liking right now and overall don't like his break in to the game. He is not on the same team as Rhand, but this quote pinged me as potential Traitor language:



Do Gellnick / Rhand have a history of playing together? The hard-town reads they both have is something I'm thinking about.

this is probably his most important post and Im going to have to re-read this a few times and the surrounding context to really digest it, pinning for later

Yo this is challenging. I don't think we're looking at Scum Wiisp here. How does scum claiming cop right bring an advantage to his team? A fake cop claim means the real cop now knows who he is, and already gets a head start building connections, right? The real cop wouldn't even have to target Scum Wiisp anymore because they have the free guilty. All they have to do is flip and Wiisp dies. It's simpler logic for me to assume Wiisp is telling the truth.

If the player numbers were tighter and Scum were inching closer to the win, I could see a strat that involved coming out as the cop and forcing some sort of do-or-die situation for Town, but it doesn't feel like that's what's happening right now.

What do people think?

slight TMI here re: the confidence that wiisp is not fakeclaiming, as WW eido gives 0 ****s about the cop living anyway

unvote
vote: Whysper

Chaco/Gellnick/Whysper for me.

crazy to me that eido's two RVS votes were in his top 3 picks at this point wow

I'm signing off for a bit. Will check back later.

Currently I would vote Chaco (UP) / Gellnick / Whysper / Wam / Rhand.

Unvote
Vote: Utopian

I'm still thinking about ExLight. I'm leaning towards not supporting the lynch right now. Their early game is in-your-face and random, like they're riding solo and don't care about their appearance. The 8 pages of squaring up to everyone is so emotionally strong I'm not convinced it's made by Scum (at least not by the Mafia team).

#HBC | Gorf Can you summarise or quote your ExLight points to me again? What do you think of my points above? ^

and again voting within whysper/chaco(UP)/gellnick, I think eido is just trying to avoid looking inconsistent at this point and is just cemented in where he is willing to go, I think this looks good for these three slots to not be mates

Can we just go Gellnick?

unvote
vote: Gellnick

I can switch to Wam too

lmao same pattern, though tossing wam into the ring is interesting and opportunistic and further reinforces my idea that these 3 picks of eidos prob arent the mate

I gotta leave soon. It's late for me. Who we going?

Unvote
Vote: Wam

so yeah thats what I have so far, by PoE I'm saying mate prob isn't rhand, swiss, wisp, UP/chaco, whysper slot, or gellnick slot, not exactly ground breaking but it narrows the field, going to try to build from that to have a solve pitch by EoD

Final Vote Count

Wam (8) - rhand, osie, gellnick, exlight, wiisp, eido, utopian, Gorf
utopian (2) - wam, mao
exlight (1) - swiss
swiss (1) - whysper
Not Voting (1) - scarlet

Wam Hammered!

given the opportunistic nature of eido's wam vote I wouldnt be surprised to see the mate with him on wam wagon though which really cuts against my PoE, maybe my vision of eido's early game approach is just scuffed af ughhhhhhhh fml

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

waiiiiiiit a ****ing minute does ww!eido get spooked at ww!chaco replacing and the attention that brings the slot and decides to bus? hmmmm

**** it im too tired for this but if someone else wants to validate that theory please ping me, ill sort out that tinfoil hat on my second pass

also if my math is right deadline is 11 PM eastern on Saturday night right? if Im wrong someone @ me and correct me because at minimum im going to do my best to clear time to be there for as many hours before deadline as possible, its just gonna be rough because my work is going to spill into the weekend

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Sure. Let's go for this or Mao then.

Vote: Nerbins

is this you saying you think they make more sense as ww than traitor with nai circumstances considered?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ebwop

nar* circumstances considered

 

[osieorb18]

is this you saying you think they make more sense as ww than traitor with nai circumstances considered?

Hmm. I don't know. I wouldn't put it past the setup to have more than one scum manipulative, but wait... I'm like 99% sure I know one of the remaining scum roles. So that leaves the other one... Hmm...

Vote Mao

You're right. I'll stick by the ol' faithful namedrop analysis until I get something better.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I’m telling you eido literally openly spoke about mao or spoke to mao 0 times. he ****ing spoke more to you more than that and you were only around for like 24 hrs last phase lmfao

 

[osieorb18]

Okay. Wiisp Rhand Swiss I think we can ride or die on Mao being the remaining wolf.

 

[Swiss]

A'ight hold up, big old re-read - few hours and im caught up

 

[Nerbins]

given the opportunistic nature of eido's wam vote I wouldnt be surprised to see the mate with him on wam wagon

This is a good point but I still think it's probably Mao
How many votes is hammer?

 

[Nerbins]

I'm like 99% sure I know one of the remaining scum roles

I mean considering one goon's dead there's only one evil PR now if you don't count traitor

 

[Nerbins]

And given what happened with me I'm next to certain it's a roleblocker but calling it now I'm not gonna sway a single solitary person with this

 

[Shurian]

I'm still waiting for some guys to post more...

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Mao is currently sitting at l-3

 

[Swiss]

Calm down guys your resident igl is back.

Let's take a seat, sit back and watch for hot takes. Gotta get this Day back on TRACK.

Osie those crumbs I SEE THEM I KNOW THEM. Why u crumbin fool. Osie town coolio roadio. With a p?

is ff ww

Great question not aimed at me, but let's take a walk together.

Whysper Traitor, if it's not him then mod loses game with us.

I'm assuming Nerbins is the last TPR, because it makes sense to me that one of the town would have the ability to dodge the double night kills.

unvote

So assuming he did somehow dodge the alignment check he's probably clear.

Nerbins confirm?

I forgot this terrible bait.

Anyway let's get own to business. Mao ain't werewolf - Eido wants to be clever, he just did what town did with Mao. Doesn't read right.

What's up with FF, Gellick & Nerbins.

Hold up Swiss you're making a case on the inactive dudes.

ye boiiiiiiiii

We're walking away from a good Nerbins lynch, to try and save night kills from the werewolf right. Coolio, if we're right - I don't think we are.
If we're wrong it's double night kill plus mafia, the real threat, effectively have 3 members. Non Bueno. I cannot believe what I am witnessing.

Mao has made a grand total of 5 posts I don't like. Not a lynch toDay. The case amounts to:
Eido didnt talk much to mao, mao seems a bit salt.

Worst case Wiisp's 1711 comes true.?

#HBC | Gorf #HBC | FrozeηFlame
I want you on this with me. FF you too. Mao won't self lynch so that's a healthy bandwaggon.

I was going to ISO and explain why Mao is town, but the only person will read it like I do is gorf. Who baffles me with this bull**** lynch swap narrows eyes

#1787/96 reads townie
#1789 feels they've done enough to defend, not too concerned.

I also empathise with mao for having less agenda to push toDay, as I am exactly the same.

+ osie mindmeld

UP push on Nerbins I like

Speaking of that, Gorf already called that interaction with Eido NAI, and now Swiss has a weird interaction with Nerbins

? don't remember show me pls. I'm not having this used as a link when Nerbins flips evil.

#1851 yes osie

I like FF's 1853 (long post not quoting)

There are a lot of scum in this game - so when a lynch seems to easy to be true, especially on someone towncore - it is.

I do not understand this push what the **** is everyone smoking. I do not get why I have to be further up Mao's ass than a rat in a tunnel.

Gorf explain yourself.

vote: nerbins

 

[Swiss]

This is like the Wam lynch and Scarlet push guys.

It just does not make any sense.

Feel like some cuck white knight now.

 

[Swiss]

Look at Nerbins coming out of the woodwork now he thinks he's safe the little termite.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I’m not lynching traitor, that’s a waste of a Day imo

Read my iso on eido and you’ll see how i came to poe to mao being eidos partner.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Eido spoke to mao a total of zero times, not “not much.” I believe that eidos mo yesterday was to 1) play safe and 2)focus on scumhunting. He stuck mao on townlists until eod when she’s suddenly more null. zero interest in solving her despite her having been at minimum a moderate presence in the thread

When we townread mao they pointed at her good tone and looking reasonable in her approach. Thinking back, it’s less townie to me in a multiball setting because she IS tryna find scum too if she’s scum. Any decent scum can stay authentic to their own tone, and mao has said that that’s just how she talks on more than one occasion. Imma be isoing mao today either way.

I suggest you reconsider your D1 townread on her too bro, after all you and I townread eido and look how that turned out

 

[Wiisp]

uhhm I jsut checked my 1711 and it says nothing
Swiss

 

[Wiisp]

Frozen's wall has a lot of internal conclusions, but the lack of a post conclusion just irritates me
Swiss

as if Nerbian hasn't been the closet to an obvious wolf all game

 

[Wiisp]

Swiss
whats your current lean list?

 

[Wiisp]

I do appreciate the work that frozen put in to removing people from the possibility of being Eido's partner, just wish I liked it enough to remove them from the picture

 

[Detective Mao]

Finally some alone time, bleh

I'm gonna ISO a few people and do some WW hunting myself

 

[Detective Mao]

How much until EoD?

 

[Swiss]

Town: Gorf Osie Wiisp Mao

Lynch Lean: Gellick, UP, Rhand less so.
Lynch: Whysper

 

[Swiss]

uhhm I jsut checked my 1711 and it says nothing
Swiss

that was for me mostly, doesnt matter

but i liked it

 

[Swiss]

I’m not lynching traitor, that’s a waste of a Day imo

Read my iso on eido and you’ll see how i came to poe to mao being eidos partner.

#?

 

[Detective Mao]

Also

Y

Can you point me to where this happened? Because the last list I seen basically had them in null

Went back to check and yeah, they put them in the middle row