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Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
town
(13)Gorf
(4)Scarlet Rage
(12)Eido
(14)Detective Mao

town enough
(6)Swiss
(1) Osie

straight null
(9)FrozenFlame
(8)Rhand (subject to whether or not i think he spewed town)
(5)Wam

can die
(3)gellnick
(10)UP (sorry bro, it be like that sometimes)
(11)Whysper
(2) ExLight

cop claim
(7)Wiisp

id jump ship to wam if need be by eod, but i got other players id rather lynch. not down for ff
 

gellnick

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
52
I'm also not sure if gellnick has actually taken a hard stance all game?
I have had the same stand for a while: Scum!Swiss, Scum!Wam, and Town!Rhand.
I can't see a scum thinking the way Rhand does, and Wam and Swiss have both made some comments that I find way off. Call it a gut feel, but I've won on my gut before.
I'm perfectly happy with a Swiss or Wam elimination right now.
I'm going through their posts to find the comments that I really don't like.
 

Wiisp

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
1,783
Don't really see why my playstyle should change now that I claimed, especially given that most people are still talking about me. I already stated my playstyle I think? I'm not a town leader those Wisp days are done unless I am super confident in my reads, or there needs to be one. Because one when I do, I become an ass, and two my reads start spiral out of control. I'm doing exactly what I think needs to be done, and that is to make sure people's reads make sense, and the current trains have a possibility of being a wolf.

And I have people literally ignoring my thoughts. When I stated everything at the beginning was NAI for Rhand, I got attacked. When I say I think people's interpretations of Chaco replacement are wrong, I get attacked, when Exlight explains his viewpoints on voting claiming known PRs, he gets attacked. This may just be town cannabalism, but who knows. I think Wam and Swiss are the only two that I have personally noticed that have had some kind of contradiction and weirdness with there plays. Whysper might be frozen scum. Chaco may be the traitor, and I slightly agree with Frozen's thoughts on UP on a way, but also not really? Like how people play when they replace in depends a lot on their playstyle.
So like idk on that slot. Game is still kinda hard. Haven't been much of a fan of gellnicka poppins, but I'm kinda trusting Rhand here?
 

Wiisp

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
1,783
osieorb18 osieorb18
Pretty sure Frozen's mannerisms are what makes people react the way they do. But clearly I'm not a fan of them. They are better when they do real time then when they post walls, still heavily disliked their first wall.
 

Wam

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
698
alright so coming back to this with a bit of a cooler head as much as I'm not sold that this isn't a turbo all in from scum!wiisp on the cop claim, I definitely was less willing to believe his claim to be legit because of my frustration with him constantly mischaracterizing my posts and acting like he runs the show. I just really really did not want to reward scum!wiisp and let him use a claim under 48 hours from deadline to hijack the wheel and strongarm us into just playing follow the cop i.e. follow him before he even has a claimed result

what strikes me here is what wiisp has done SINCE the claim. he has been content to simply ride on the claim and has not done much of anything to refocus pressure onto another slot or leverage his claim derived "town cred" to take a lead in the discourse. this to me does not match up with scum!wiisp fake claiming. If he was going to do an all in like that, he would want a lot more bang for his buck given he is not a timid player. for him to just fade into the background with this "well I'm town cop so lol y'all are wrong screw your ****ty reads" and then essentially just coast reads more like a legit town cop who is rest on his "haha you're wrong about me I told you so" haunches and acting like he's done his job, a hallmark of town players who care more about being "right" then actually helping the town win. and wiisp as a player fits that profile 100% to me, playing to gratify himself at all times, not actually help the team win. which is anti-town af, but in this case I think it's just genuine, though selfish, townie play

it's a bit WIFOM here, because if I was right about rhand/wiisp being mates they may have mutually decided to chill on the open buddying if I spooked them for calling them on it (this literally happened a game or two ago when I literally called out Kary and Darkhorse open buddying in the early game as mates) but again I go back to the fact that these two haven't really done anything with wiisps claim to grab leadership which doesn't line up with a coordinated scum all in to me

Utopian's entrance is really bad, I hate "lol guys look how lazy and bad and uninformed I am here's my troll takes" entries because they are literally entirely filler and performative. what is the point of making uninformed posts and bait ** like "lol I'll just vote for whoever has the most votes look how anti-town I am teehee" like it's literally just the other side of the LAMIST coin (look at me I'm so blatantly anti-town I can't be anti-town!) and UP is a better player than that. I know replacing in to a 25+ page D1 is daunting but still like that ** is just filler WIFOM bull** and people giving him towncred for that "uwu lulz" ** is a bad look. Chaco pinged townish for me early and he seemed to have a negative reaction to that, which I can understand because I did recently snow town!chaco, but UP's contributions so far have only made the slot look worse. and like come the ** on, why are you dropping votes less than 24 hours to deadline when you're on page 6 of a 26 page game? that's just straight up irresponsible, you trying to have another ***show like when trisscar randomly double vote hammered in APEX mafia because she wasn't paying attention? like pulling this * is asking for it

Wam's relative absence until just now was really starting to bother me, was expecting to hear more from the slot and I'm getting heavy wait and see/coaster vibes from the slot

we still have literally nothing meaningful from whysper and many people have mentioned that it might be "frozen scum" in that slot. is this a meta thing? do we know if whysper generally struggles as anti town or is timid in high pressure roles?

SR also comes off as an unremarkable slot but I do think the kneejerk pseudo CC is town indicative

I'm also not sure if gellnick has actually taken a hard stance all game?

still doing a full re-read, should be around for the likely firedrill that will be

Unvote
Not going to lie your read is right ont eh coasting. Think I got thrown by believing wiisp s claim and am struggling to get back into the game.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
And to those of you who are gonna complain about me not having Mao as a townread: I was concentrating on the people I felt were most important to deal with.
credit where credit is due this is a fair point

by #911, i can see a point to be made that gellnick!scum could be lhf. might iso if his wagon starts taking shape so i could be sure of my read before voting. still sorting him where i sorted him for now tho
 

osieorb18

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
996
town
(13)Gorf
(4)Scarlet Rage
(12)Eido
(14)Detective Mao

town enough
(6)Swiss
(1) Osie

straight null
(9)FrozenFlame
(8)Rhand (subject to whether or not i think he spewed town)
(5)Wam

can die
(3)gellnick
(10)UP (sorry bro, it be like that sometimes)
(11)Whysper
(2) ExLight

cop claim
(7)Wiisp

id jump ship to wam if need be by eod, but i got other players id rather lynch. not down for ff
Could you talk to me more about Mao?

From my most recent notes on them:

I feel like Mao's trying to skate by on derp and acting somewhat out of it. There's several instances where they start to lecture people and it always kinda comes out of the blue. Like, it fits with what's been posted, but it doesn't make sense that MAO is the one doing it. They also talk about interacting with people more but then do not do so. They also townread Chaco for no clear reason.
 

Detective Mao

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
119
I have enough energy to keep the tab open and follow along every now and then so I won't fall behind
And I want to respond to this

Pretty much I can respond to this with one sentence to be honest
You're basing your scumread on a character flaw which I have already mentioned having, and there's not much I can do about it ¯\(ツ)
Combine that with being busy and you get the Mao you're seeing right now
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Could you talk to me more about Mao?

From my most recent notes on them:

I feel like Mao's trying to skate by on derp and acting somewhat out of it. There's several instances where they start to lecture people and it always kinda comes out of the blue. Like, it fits with what's been posted, but it doesn't make sense that MAO is the one doing it. They also talk about interacting with people more but then do not do so. They also townread Chaco for no clear reason.
more ramblings

i got guttown on her entrance, and from there i was kinda mindmelding with her and her play was really consistent. i liked her take on exlight around pg like 9 or 10, the one where he says he was writing a wall anyway. helped make me wanna have a more solid read on exlight. shes been playing for about a year and i think her playstyle is super consistent with that level of play as town. its heavily a tone read to me, and i could be wrong but the fact that im getting a solid town read feels good considering my lack thereof. she aint a play toDay but ill probably wanna iso her toMorrow some time
 

osieorb18

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
996
I have enough energy to keep the tab open and follow along every now and then so I won't fall behind
And I want to respond to this

Pretty much I can respond to this with one sentence to be honest
You're basing your scumread on a character flaw which I have already mentioned having, and there's not much I can do about it ¯\(ツ)
Combine that with being busy and you get the Mao you're seeing right now

Just saying...
 

osieorb18

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
996
Side thought: This is at least my third game reading Frozen Flame and I don't know that I'm ever going to not playstyle clash there into at least scumleaning them. (Actually iirc I've read them correctly when I've tried to read them, dunno.)
 

Xivii

caterpillar feet
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,903
Location
Kindgom of Science
NNID
HBC
Vote Count 1.5

exlight (3) - mao, swiss, gorf
swiss (1) - whysper
utopian (1) -wam
whysp (1) - eido
wam (1) - rhand
frozen (1) - osie


Not Voting (6) - scarlet, wiisp, exlight, utopian, gellnick, frozen

With 14 alive it takes 8 to execute. Day 1 ends Sunday 8:00 pm PT.


Vote Count 1.4

exlight (3) - mao, swiss, gorf
swiss (2) - gellnick, whysper
utopian (2) - osie, wam
whysp (2) - rhand, eido
rhand (1) - frozen


Not Voting (4) - utopian, scarlet, wiisp, exlight

With 14 alive it takes 8 to execute. Day 1 ends Sunday 8:00 pm PT.

scar #wam
gel #swi
rha #wii
fro #rha
mao #rha
swi #rha
eid #cha
gor #rha
rha #swi
eid #why
cha #exl
exl #mao
gel #unv
sca #cha
vc0
eid #gel
wii #fro
swi #cha
wam #rha
wam #wii
wam #rha
vc1
rha #wam
mao #wii
swi #wii
sca #wam
exl #unv
cha #unv
vc2
wii #unv
gel #swi
mao #exl
gor #exl
why #swi
wam #unv
swi #wii
exl #swi
wii #swi
wam #gel
rha #swi
sca #wii
sca #unv
exl #exl
wii #unv
wii #fro
wii #unv
rha #wam
rha #why
eid #why
nin = osi
cha = uto
uto #unv
osi #uto
vc3
exl #unv
gor #uto
swi #why
swi #exl
gor #exl
wam #uto
swi #exl
vc4
gor #exl
uto #wii
gel #uto
uto #unv
gel #unv
rha #wam
osi #fro
fro #unv
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Exlight/Rhand/Wysper/Wiisp lynches for me


new
Osie
ExLight -- lynchable
gellnick null-
Scarlet Rage Town Scientist
Wam no idea
Swiss
Wiisp PR Claim COP lynchable
Rhand - Lynchable
FrozenFlame townlean
Chaco
Whysper lynchable
Eido - Town
Gorf town
Detective Mao - Town
lol swiss not calling himself ww cuz people cant take a joke without reading 86 levels into it

^ FF should be town not townlean

@ Osie do you honestly believe you will succeed in a Poyzin lynch now?
Mao's #94 I read this as town lean - stops the wagon and expands conversation, why do you see this as scummy?
this is a good question

Mao's #94 felt really fake to me. Very disingenuous. 🤷

As for Poyzin elimination, Chaco was the scummiest thing ever since a moldy piece of bread being eaten by a grey ooze.
reading back i agree with swiss. id probably feel it was more disingenuous if she didnt have a stance at all from it (like chaco was tryna pass off), but even in that post she said her vote was still on rhand

wam 932 is ****ing weaksauce

I finally got myself to re-read things
I've been doing a school project the whole day so don't expect much from me today in terms of WiM

Possibility of being W/W = Highly possible

From what I saw, Light and Wiisp have avoided each other during the whole game. Even when both of them have respectfully been the current leading wagon, they've shown no willigness to interact or evaluate the other.



This is from ExLight's first and only(?) readlist where I included their scumleans. I wasn't too impressed by their reads even then, and as I stated earlier, it felt like they panicked upon pressure and made reads to get off of the spotlight. The bolded parts show the differences between their scumleans; here you can see that with Swiss and Wam, they're showing a considerable amount of confidence, whereas they're noticeably hedgy with their Wiisp read yet still put him on the bottom.

"I feel like he's been really inaccurate on the way he's reading people."

^^This also pinged me in a bad way, mainly because... wasn't Swiss scumreading both Wiisp and Rhand at this time? Considering their position on ExLight's own readlist, it doesn't make much sense to me why they would feel this way and smells like TMI.



From this point on the explanations aren't really needed, but for clarification, here they're pushing for a Swiss kill when Swiss and Wiisp are both being pressured.




ExLight immediately hopping on the "Wiisp confirmed town" -train with little reaction, even though they had him as a scumlean





And here's Wiisp refusing to engage with ExLight white maintaining a "neutral" stance despite people pushing for an ExLight kill.

Most of the latter ones, when looked at individually, are NAI and could've gone either way from my perspective. But if you look at the overall handling of each other's slots, and especially with ExLight's readlist, I'd say these two have a fair chance of being a scumteam.
i mean no disrespect but i dont think its a good look that you spent time doing this instead of maybe looking at null reads or getting a more broad view of the thread

With that said

Since there hasn't been a counterclaim, the one I'm willing to kill between the two is and will be ExLight without a doubt
Wiisp is not dying today, even though I don't entirely believe their claim
and i think it shows townie consistency that she had reacted this way about the cop claim initially, and that she might just be getting too tunnely. but well see

Hmmm, I wonder why Chaco slot gets steam now.
lol, never change scarlet
 

Eido

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
395
I'm signing off for a bit. Will check back later.

Currently I would vote Chaco (UP) / Gellnick / Whysper / Wam / Rhand.

Unvote
Vote: Utopian


I'm still thinking about ExLight. I'm leaning towards not supporting the lynch right now. Their early game is in-your-face and random, like they're riding solo and don't care about their appearance. The 8 pages of squaring up to everyone is so emotionally strong I'm not convinced it's made by Scum (at least not by the Mafia team).

#HBC | Gorf #HBC | Gorf Can you summarise or quote your ExLight points to me again? What do you think of my points above? ^
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
I thought it was an oracle.
I looked it up now, I never saw the role.
Wiisp Wiisp do you believe rhand thought that our open multiball setup was cop, oracle

Rhand Rhand please describe your incorrect understanding of the setup in full. like what all the open roles were. its hard to believe that you were wrong about the setup like this

#HBC | Gorf #HBC | Gorf @Swiss Yeah, I'm at like 85% sure now and I'm not rewarding that behaviour. They can replace out if they don't want to play. Rewarding throwing by voting them out sets a bad precedent.
i do feel you on that, and i dont imagine id be voting him out if i didnt think he was scum.
 

ExLight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
1,305
while I think Chaco is a scummy spot I feel like UP is easier to read than him and that we should at least give him time to catch up with the game
 
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