Mafia All Stars: In the end, it was Nothing Special

[Sephiroths Masamune]

What if one of the vig's is an SK?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

another thing to think about.

but not really since we'll be lynching swords today and he'll flip some kind of scum. So we'll be takin care of that

 

[Overswarm]

I still don't know why we don't have macman and swords target each other than lynch wohever is left :B

 

[Kirby King]

Day 4 Vote Count
SwordsRbroken (2): Zεη, Macman
X1-12 (2): Praxis, Sephiroths Masamune
Praxis (1): Overswarm
Macman (1): Tandora
Zεη (1): SwordsRbroken

Not voting: X1-12, Evil Eye, Lionel Luthor

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, December 5 at 11:59:59 PM ET.

 

[Evil Eye]

Vote: SwordsRBroken

 

[Praxis]

I still don't know why we don't have macman and swords target each other than lynch wohever is left :B

We could, but then we'd have to lynch X1 toDay, and we won't know what the results will be (depends on night action resolution).

Easier to plan with things you know.

Unvote, Vote: SwordsRBroken

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I say tonight follow the plan. I really would like Teran to be NKed tonight since he's just a big wall in front of town.

Then toMorrow Night we have the 2 vig's kill eachother.

 

[Tandora]

Want to repeat the plan since it's been tweaked a lot lately.

We lynch Swords today.
I recruit Macman tonight.
I don't recruit tomorrow.

Is that right?

 

[Xivii]

Zen, does your role still list you as a miller doctor?

No, but I don't think I would be because doesn't a miller come up as visiting a person every time a watcher watches that person? So Seph would have seen me visiting Tandora last night if that were the case.

Despite valid points on Macman's part, I honestly like Praxis's plan. Zen's reply to me was some of the scummiest **** I've ever seen -- EE's so town --> EE is probably scum in two pages, with the only thing that changed in my play being that I supported a plan that would verify him, expose him or get him killed. So scummy it caused me physical pain.

I didn't say "EE's so town", I said "EE's playing so town". Like you're saying so many town-like things. I don't know exactly how to interpret that because I don't really have any meta on you so I don't know if you try always say so so many townie like things when you're town & scum. Or just one or the other.

Things like:
-Showing to be active; responding on everything, even things that aren't addressed to you. I've seen you do this a couple of times such as your #1123.
-Making full elaborate posts.
- Stating that you are rereading and have more to say.

All of these things are town like things and the opposite of them are scum like (Inactivity, simple posts, not reviewing). However, because a person has a play style that is more town-like or more scum-like, that doesn't mean that they are town or scum. They can simply play a certain way all the time. For example, in contrast to the way you have been playing this game, Macman has a general play style that I consider more scum like. He's often in the background and makes simple posts unless provoked to do otherwise. He relies more on his actions rather than his appearance. Anyone who has played with him should know you cannot determine his alignment based on his play style, it's simply the meta that he maintains. Some people prefer to maintain a constant town-like meta rather than a constant scum-like meta.

Which is why I pointed out that you are playing so town. I don't know if you are just like that or if it you, all you have is your voice and your vote, or if you are scum trying to give off the pro-town appearance. So saying "you are playing so town" really isn't the same as saying "you are so town".


As for why I was speculating you could be scum was because you were supporting an idea that was faulty in benefiting town, and actually would be anti-town if I were correct.

1. Your death has been deemed acceptable since literally the moment you claimed, in favor of more useful and protown slots like Seph and Tandora. Why, pray tell, has it suddenly become unacceptable now, when the possibility of you being expected to protect someone in a verifiable manner has arisen?

2. It doesn't waste your abilities; either you die and are out of the game, saving town a potential mislynch, or your abilities are verified, and you are thus verified as not making a mafia kill. If we have one mafiat left on the main scum team, or if we have two left but Swords flips scum, this almost entirely clears you.

3. If you don't protect Macman, but are in fact a Town Doctor, Macman may die, which would render all the points about clearing you in point #2 absolutely nil because he wouldn't be alive to tell us about it.

4. Of all our claimed power roles, you are among the highest in regards to your ability to be mafia. Mafia Doctor, safeclaim as a town doctor, and J being a doctor before you janned him are all strong possibilities as far as I'm concerned. This forces you into set conditions where the odds are good that only a town doctor could perform as you would be, or you will fail the conditions and be exposed for shenanigans.

It's odd that you've accepted this until your doctorness became specifically and especially verifiable.

The goal of my protection was to ensure the survival of another role so that they could use their role to benefit town in catching scum.

I agreed with it because I could wifom scum into not knowing who to target. If scum target Tandora, Seph would know. If scum didn't target Tandora and she died, the person she recruited would be outed as scum. If she lived and no body targeted her, the recruited could essentially be cleared. Whether I lived or not, town would either have caught scum, or one step closer to doing so, Therefore, the goal is accomplished.

Me protecting Mac and Mac tracking me is not the best use of our abilities and does not accomplish the goal of catching scum. We already know that I have a PR due to Seph outing me D2. Therefore the only new information tracking me would get is showing that I cannot NK. This wouldn't clear me any more than now because we don't know if there is more than 1 scum left, and in a game this large I wouldn't doubt there is. If there is then most likely another scum mate could simply preform the kill. So doing this just leads to more questioning and speculation, it doesn't really give any new info other than that I couldn't NK, and I think scum would take advantage of this. But I guess thinking about it, this could only be known from my point of view because I know that I can't kill and that I am doc. However scum know this as well, which is why I am suspicious of you for pushing it.

I think a better plan would be for me to protect mac, and mac to use his abilities else where. I am likely to die soon anyway and if I do manage to live and people still have doubts about me, then we could do this plan later when it's more beneficial as Mac would still alive because he's guaranteed to live through my protection.

 

[Xivii]

if you try always

I don't know if you are just like that or if it you,

I never proof read before I post..

 

[Praxis]

Revisiting:


Plan A:

Lynch X1.

Swords protects Macman.

Macman is going to kill Lionel Luthor

Zen is going to protect Swords.

Seph is going to watch Tandora.

Tandora is going to recruit Macman.

If I die:

Obviously, if Tandora dies without visitors, lynch Macman.

If I die and Tandora lived, EE and OS are clear, lynch Zen D5, N5 Swords should doc protect EE, Seph should watch Overswarm. Macman should track OS so we can confirm Macman's ability.

Assuming no scum deaths, this should get us to D6 with OS/EE alive and cleared townies, and three of Tandora/Macman/Swords/Seph alive. Tandora should be masoned with Macman at this point. Even if we fail to hit a single scum, town'll have a 66.7% chance of lynching scum D6, and a scum lynch might end the game (if Macman and Swords are in fact the vig, they'll know who the other two scum are and can kill them).


If I live, we'll discuss toMorrow. This is only for if I die toNight and flip town.

OS, your thoughts, assuming confirmation of you and EE as Town and my death toNight?

Plan B:

Alternate plan with a SwordsRBroken lynch, assuming my death toNight.

Night 4 begins

Lynch Swords
Zen protects Macman
X1 scans Zen
Macman vigs Lionel Luthor
Seph watches Tandora
Tandora recruits Macman


Tandora is out of recruits?
If I die
Day 5 begins

OS and EE are cleared
X1 is lynched

Night 5 begins

Macman survivor is in mason
Seph watches OS
Zen protects EE
Tandora does not recruit if she can, because dying makes scum win
Scum kills Zen, Seph, Tandora, or Macman

OS, EE, and the surviving three of Zen/Seph/Tandora/Macman are in lylo, 3v2 with Macman and Tandora masoned at the end.

(Assuming no one flips scum during this and Tandora's recruit does not kill her)

Town, pick one.

 

[Evil Eye]

@Praxis: You already know where I'm at, though this Zen interaction is probably going to decide where I end up leaving my vote. Or a reread to see if it's possible for X1-12 and Zen to be scumbuddies. Then again X1 dies toMorrow anyway by that plan... so, yeah, still really liking Plan B.

So, on to Zen.


First of all, what the ****. No, that isn't what millers do. That doesn't even make any sense and sounds more like an alibi in case someone saw you standing over a dead body. How would the miller you're speculating interact with the rolecop, then? With the tracker? Other investigative roles?

Oh, and my mistake, you weren't taking a stance on my alignment, you were just making a ****ty vacuous post that is the absolute definition of fake contribution. Glad you cleared that up! Wouldn't want to think you'd ever been useful or anything. Hurdurp Praxis is playing so town I don't know if that's his meta or he's just scum trying to derka der hurrdurr badurrrrrrrr

Too Townie Fallacy. Read it. READ IT.

Hell read the last few pages of Bioware. Once I get into a game I post a lot. Once we get to a lull of good scumhunting or endgame I write novels. Everything you said in your first reply there was awful fallacious garbage with more holes in it than Swiss cheese visited by Roberto from Futurama.

Also I like the way you've fallen back in a wishywashy manner to saying that you're "entertaining the idea" that I "could be scum", when in reality you said "EE is probably scum" (while dodging absolutely all of my points and restating your own which I'd already addressed). OMMMMMGGGGUUUSSSSS. And the reason it bothers me so much is because what little meta I have of you doesn't allow for tantrums and whining-induced logic ignoring.

Your asinine rambling that I crapped on with a freaking hyperlink is the most you've said about anything in this game. It's absolutely absurd.

As to P1123, I misunderstood your question, and what I thought you were asking was stupid and thus worth needling you about. My mistake, obviously, but since you felt like bringing that up I'd like you to actually show an example of it being a pattern of behavior if you're going to make a claim like that. Also, what were you looking for with your question, re: OS, that would bring you closer to understanding the game or someone's alignment? How? Why?

Not that I should have to justify myself against an accusation that I'm trying to "seem" town anyway, since such nonsense is objectively and definitively bad play. But I'm humoring you, here. At any rate it's a common first blush response that I've yet to see as a scumtell, though it can derail traps at times unfortunately. Still, I fail to see what's not protown about that mindset; scum still needs to avoid unnecessary attention, so why bother getting in your face for a conversation you were having with someone else? Answer: Because I was scumhunting.


And a play by play:

The goal of my protection was to ensure the survival of another role so that they could use their role to benefit town in catching scum.

Uh, yeah, I'm aware of how a doctor works. What you forget is that the only reason you're alive right now is because of your doctor claim. The. Only. Reason. As such I was completely and utterly okay with you being dead. The three outcomes of the plan were that you would be verified, exposed, or die. I was completely okay with all of them. Your death would still be protecting more useful and crucial power roles (and players), like the whopping three person masonry that we'd be going into D5 with, the extra copscan, and Praxis doing whatever the hell to clear me and Overswarm. I don't think anyone would be mourning the death of a scummy, skimming coaster that is literally only alive because of his doctor claim. This would just clear up endgame in a huge way, and the fact that you didn't see this at all suggests self-preservating motives.

I agreed with it because I could wifom scum into not knowing who to target. If scum target Tandora, Seph would know. If scum didn't target Tandora and she died, the person she recruited would be outed as scum. If she lived and no body targeted her, the recruited could essentially be cleared. Whether I lived or not, town would either have caught scum, or one step closer to doing so, Therefore, the goal is accomplished.

And a three-person masonry, bonus copscan, Praxis's thing etc etc wouldn't be the absolute freaking definition of "one step closer to doing so"?

Me protecting Mac and Mac tracking me is not the best use of our abilities and does not accomplish the goal of catching scum. We already know that I have a PR due to Seph outing me D2. Therefore the only new information tracking me would get is showing that I cannot NK. This wouldn't clear me any more than now because we don't know if there is more than 1 scum left, and in a game this large I wouldn't doubt there is. If there is then most likely another scum mate could simply preform the kill. So doing this just leads to more questioning and speculation, it doesn't really give any new info other than that I couldn't NK, and I think scum would take advantage of this. But I guess thinking about it, this could only be known from my point of view because I know that I can't kill and that I am doc. However scum know this as well, which is why I am suspicious of you for pushing it.

This is better, but your own conclusions at the end underline the OMGUS nature of where this accusation came out of nowhere -- you concede that only you could know that, so town could fall into that line of thinking, but scum know it as well, which is why you are suspicious of me for supporting it. It's circular, self-supporting logic, and that's not a good thing. You do nothing at all to demonstrate me being scummy otherwise, so the only logical deduction from this analysis is that I am town, because you've pointed out no other potentially scummy behavior whatsoever.

I think a better plan would be for me to protect mac, and mac to use his abilities else where. I am likely to die soon anyway and if I do manage to live and people still have doubts about me, then we could do this plan later when it's more beneficial as Mac would still alive because he's guaranteed to live through my protection.

This is acceptable logic.

@all: When you post to choose your plan and whatnot, I'm curious about

 

[Evil Eye]

EBWOP:

@all: When you post to choose your plan and whatnot, I'm curious about your take on Zen.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I just wanna lynch swords

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I choose plan A. One of my reasons being that if i protect toNight and am lynched tomorrow, i must kill after i am lynched. If no scum die toNight, then we will be in LYLO correct? Since i'm town, and you guys, especially zen, who posts mostly "swords dead yet?" (more on that later), seem to want me lynched so badly, how about this.

Go with plan A until toMorrow. Then lynch me. And, since i get an extra kill if i protect the previous night, i kill zen, so we get both flips. Thoughts?

Zen can die the way i stated above (or swap him out with X1 in the plan).

My take on Zen is that he needs to die either toDay or tomorrow. I could totally see a doctor fakeclaim from a jailer or possibly a roleblocker. Aside from the flavor and that stuff, he hasn't really done anything useful all game aside from his "case" on me and Nich/EE. He's just been posting stuff like "swords dead yet?" or "when is swords going to die?"

Either way, i'd be willing for zen or X1 to die, preferrably Zen today and i can shoot X1 tomorrow if i'm lynched.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I just wanna lynch swords

And you say you want town to think you're more useful.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

lol

respond to my posts if you want to live

but you'll probably die anyways

 

[SwordsRbroken]

lol

respond to my posts if you want to live

but you'll probably die anyways

Oh yeah, what posts?

another thing to think about.

but not really since we'll be lynching swords today and he'll flip some kind of scum. So we'll be takin care of that

Or this one?

dumbest **** i've ever heard.

first you expect us to believe that there are 4 killing roles but don't think kiki balanced it with more than one doc?

edit: what's you reasoning for this thought? why don't you think he did. I need to see how you came to this conclusion, or did you just concoct it to sound like you're actually thinking.

This is the only real post you have against me. My theory about there being 4 killing roles is correct, Gheb was the arsonist, which is a killing role, if you can be believed about your role that makes another, then there is me, and then there is scum. I don't think kiki would put more than one doc in it, but tell me this. I think it is perfectly possible to have a scum jailer/roleblocker in the mix.

So really, your "case" on me is just one post, and it's based on a dumb point anyways. Trying to lynch someone based off of the fact that he doesn't think that there is more than one doc although there are 4 killing roles is stupid.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Why don't you think he'd put more than one doc given the amount of killing roles you say there are? is the question

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i don't really believe there are 4 killing roles. 2 vigs that can shoot every night, and mafia, and arsonist.

im gonna reread but swords, what makes you suspicious of zen and not me? Why did you never say anything about your suspicions on zen before(if you did my bad i still need to reread). With what we know now, someone had to have shot mentosman or glg. That has to be mafia, and you killed BY swords? I guess mafia hit the doc protect N2? That's kind of shocking to me especially since im pretty sure n2 we talked about what the night actions were gonna be.

Honestly I still think swords is scum. clearly people are lying, and there is too much information we're missing on night actions due to the lack of concrete knowledge on whose telling the truth and whose not.

i'm gonna scumhunt.

still think swords is scum tho

also yur cool for quoting posts that clearly weren't directed to you in a way to make me look bad.

respond to this too

 

[Praxis]

EBWOP:

@all: When you post to choose your plan and whatnot, I'm curious about your take on Zen.

I've already stated I prefer plan A partially just because it doesn't let Zen live to endgame.

Zen is playing nothing like he did when I played with him as town in Halo Mafia, and pretty terribly.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

In all reality, your claim is all that keeps me from being suspicious of you. I don't believe Zen's claim. I did kill BY actually, it is possible that mafia and i both targeted him, which is probably what happened. And i hadn't claimed at all D2, i was saving my claim for when it was needed.

Zen to me is suspicious because after he made a weak case on me and Nich/EE he disappeared, and became largely useless. All he's done is posting stuff like "swords dead yet?" and defending himself, not to mention i like what EE has on him.

I didn't say anything on Zen before because he had started it a while back, and it was starting to become obvious how scummy he was.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I was ninja'ed by Praxis.

 

[Tandora]

My take on Zen is that he needs to die either toDay or tomorrow. I could totally see a doctor fakeclaim from a jailer or possibly a roleblocker.

Zen clearly isn't either of those as my recruit attempt of Mentos succeeded despite Zen targeting me N2.

I've already stated I prefer plan A partially just because it doesn't let Zen live to endgame.

Zen is playing nothing like he did when I played with him as town in Halo Mafia, and pretty terribly.

Meta is the worst reason to lynch someone. I know I play completely differently as town depending what my role is. VT Tandora is going to be loud as brass while Dr Tandora is gonna be more to the sidelines so town doesn't lose a PR. This doesn't necessarily excuse or clear Zen, but my point is you really cannot refer to other games for play. Stay within the current game for real scumhunting. (And I do include EE in this for his Bioware reference.)

I think my choice of what plan to go with largely depends on this question. If we lynch Swords and he flips as scum w/o the role he claimed, would that clear Mac and Zen? Because it seems to me part of the problem is the two vigs and two doc claims, right?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

It wouldn't clear anyone. roles don't matter imo, esp in this game. Though i predict the game will be over after we lynch swords

but if it doesn't, it would make me feel better about zen

 

[Evil Eye]

You don't think it could be distancing, Mac? Yes, it'd be utterly terrible distancing (and I do get a vibe of Swords trying to grab onto my *** hair a bit), but... uh, well. I won't say mean things, but you know. We've all played with Swords before.

Also, how do you feel about Zen right now?

 

[Evil Eye]

(And I do include EE in this for his Bioware reference.)

...

I mentioned that because Zen was using the Too Townie fallacy, and specifically making meta-accusations, and it's my most recent game as a townie, where I showed blatantly similar/identical play. What the hell, Tandora.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I'm kinda tunneled on swords right now and see no point in being less so idk how i feel about zen

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i've been following the back and forth and nothing strikes me as scummy enough that i'd wanna lynch him over swords despite the points you've made.

 

[Evil Eye]

Just answer the question about distancing vs whatever else, then. You're positive Swords is scum, whatever. What do you think he's trying to do, there? Why? We've already pointed it out, so you might as well be specific; he'll be trying to revise his approach from here regardless of what we say.

 

[Evil Eye]

You WOULD ninja me. Yeah I don't want to lynch Zen either, I'm just trying to lean on you a bit about him and especially him vs Swords.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

You don't think it could be distancing, Mac? Yes, it'd be utterly terrible distancing (and I do get a vibe of Swords trying to grab onto my *** hair a bit), but... uh, well. I won't say mean things, but you know. We've all played with Swords before.

Also, how do you feel about Zen right now?

distancing between swords and zen?

if so than not particularly. Unless swords flips mafia doc or some other doc like role than I could see zen being the real doc.

although, if he doesn't flip it zen could still be tthe mafia doc as his partner... But zen wasn't even the one to bring up me and zen being clear, it was tandora, so I doubt he's actively trying to distance.

Swords on the otherhand, since he knows that he's going down today... it would make sense for him to claim doc which would easily distance himself from zen. It's kind of even more likely when you consider that swords didn't say anything about zen when he initially claimed doc. It might be just a ploy they decided to pull just now.

But you're right, It's definitely possible, but it's pretty wifomy so it's hard to judge.

 

[Evil Eye]

Yeah, I agree with everything you said, pretty much. I've been trying to puzzle it out. The paper trail will probably help a ton of Swords flips scum. No point reading a ****-load into it before we even know what he is.

Also, wanna be friends? You're the only person I really trust right now and I've got a whopping two night actions supporting my non-mafia-ness. And yes this is a hard townread stance on Macman, to those watching. Deal with it.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i'm down

 

[Evil Eye]

 

[X1-12]

did os claim which Night he hosed seph? Im just thinking about mac's tracker claim.. I think the info he says he got from tracking was already out in the thread.

@mac: why did you choose os and ee to track? And on each Night why did you choose to track/kill that night

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i forgot why i chose os. but he was a loud voice who I thought was scummy for a certain reason. If i reread i'd probably remember. And EE just replaced in and i wanted to know whether I could trust him.

I killed scamp cuz he replaced someone who had barely said anything d1 so he was perfec vig fodder. Also I figured it'd be better to kill earlier rather than later.

and yea i think my tracker info was already out, unfortunately. I can still prove my ability if i need to.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Unless os didn't say which day he targeted seph. which proves my case a tiny bit more but not that much since it'd be a 50/50 chance for me to guess. and n2 is probs the more likely guess anyways.

 

[Xivii]

@EE:
-Huh? What does a miller do then? That's what I thought it was. I'm confused why you're attacking me for that.

-I just wanted him to clarify.

-I see at the rest of your post.

 

[Xivii]

Tan how come you've been lurking so much? I always see you on but not say anything.