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Mafia All Stars: In the end, it was Nothing Special
- Thread starter Kirby King
- Start date
The biggest potential problem I see is a scum roleblocker. Could there be one, even though a town roleblocker flipped? Important notes:
* Sephiroth: Is confirmed Watcher, unless scumbuddies with both GLG and Zen, and if so, shipped GLG and forced Zen to claim doctor.
* OS and EE are assumed cleared in this scenario.
* Zen could be a scum roleblocker. We would know this by D5 when Zen gets lynched.
* Swords could be scum roleblocker. Swords could pretend to be doc protecting EE when he is in fact roleblocking someone else while his scumbuddy kills.
* Macman could be scum roleblocker. He would have to claim to having been roleblocked instead of killing Lionel Luthor. Thus, the existence of a roleblocker will be revealed by daybreak D5, since Macman will be claiming having been roleblocked (or scum will kill Lionel Luthor for us).
* Tandora cannot be roleblocker; she has masoned several people.
So Swords being a scum roleblocker is the only hole in this plan at this point. I'll see if I can figure out something after lunch.
* Sephiroth: Is confirmed Watcher, unless scumbuddies with both GLG and Zen, and if so, shipped GLG and forced Zen to claim doctor.
* OS and EE are assumed cleared in this scenario.
* Zen could be a scum roleblocker. We would know this by D5 when Zen gets lynched.
* Swords could be scum roleblocker. Swords could pretend to be doc protecting EE when he is in fact roleblocking someone else while his scumbuddy kills.
* Macman could be scum roleblocker. He would have to claim to having been roleblocked instead of killing Lionel Luthor. Thus, the existence of a roleblocker will be revealed by daybreak D5, since Macman will be claiming having been roleblocked (or scum will kill Lionel Luthor for us).
* Tandora cannot be roleblocker; she has masoned several people.
So Swords being a scum roleblocker is the only hole in this plan at this point. I'll see if I can figure out something after lunch.
OS, this plan is assuming that I die and flip town. At that point, you will be able to trust me.
If I live through the Night, disregard my suggestions for D5 entirely.
If I live through the Night, disregard my suggestions for D5 entirely.
Good catch. xD
Lynch X1.
Swords protects himself.
Zen protects Swords.
Swords protects Macman.
Macman kills Lionel Luthor.
Seph watches Tandora.
Tandora is going to recruit Macman.
Zen, fullclaim.
EE, I trust you at this point, so decide whether you are going to claim today or tomorrow like me based on the effect it will have on the plan.
i don't really believe there are 4 killing roles. 2 vigs that can shoot every night, and mafia, and arsonist.
im gonna reread but swords, what makes you suspicious of zen and not me? Why did you never say anything about your suspicions on zen before(if you did my bad i still need to reread). With what we know now, someone had to have shot mentosman or glg. That has to be mafia, and you killed BY swords? I guess mafia hit the doc protect N2? That's kind of shocking to me especially since im pretty sure n2 we talked about what the night actions were gonna be.
Honestly I still think swords is scum. clearly people are lying, and there is too much information we're missing on night actions due to the lack of concrete knowledge on whose telling the truth and whose not.
i'm gonna scumhunt.
still think swords is scum tho
im gonna reread but swords, what makes you suspicious of zen and not me? Why did you never say anything about your suspicions on zen before(if you did my bad i still need to reread). With what we know now, someone had to have shot mentosman or glg. That has to be mafia, and you killed BY swords? I guess mafia hit the doc protect N2? That's kind of shocking to me especially since im pretty sure n2 we talked about what the night actions were gonna be.
Honestly I still think swords is scum. clearly people are lying, and there is too much information we're missing on night actions due to the lack of concrete knowledge on whose telling the truth and whose not.
i'm gonna scumhunt.
still think swords is scum tho
dumbest **** i've ever heard.
first you expect us to believe that there are 4 killing roles but don't think kiki balanced it with more than one doc?
edit: what's you reasoning for this thought? why don't you think he did. I need to see how you came to this conclusion, or did you just concoct it to sound like you're actually thinking.
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Not gonna lie, I thought that too.
I haven't expressed all that much suspicion on Zen, but I don't want him to live until endgame.
I'm wary of him because:
A) I don't think this game has two doctors
B) Zen never claimed his character
C) Zen only claimed doctor after he was caught clearly violating the town plan and skimming
D) I suspect that this game has no standard mafia roles, which makes "Town Doctor" a terribly weak claim
I'm horribly confused by Swords claiming to have killed Blue Yoshi, though. He could have claimed to have killed Frozenflame and no one would question it. V_V
I did think Blue Yoshi was a strange choice for scum to choose, though. He was a good choice for a mislynch, I didn't see why scum would NK him.
I'm wary of him because:
A) I don't think this game has two doctors
B) Zen never claimed his character
C) Zen only claimed doctor after he was caught clearly violating the town plan and skimming
D) I suspect that this game has no standard mafia roles, which makes "Town Doctor" a terribly weak claim
I'm horribly confused by Swords claiming to have killed Blue Yoshi, though. He could have claimed to have killed Frozenflame and no one would question it. V_V
I did think Blue Yoshi was a strange choice for scum to choose, though. He was a good choice for a mislynch, I didn't see why scum would NK him.
Xivii
caterpillar feet
I think Swords is lying. He was pressuring me into claiming, and when I did, he said nothing about it.
Praxis the only way I could be roleblocker if tandora and I are both scum, as her n2 action would have been blocked. I don't think there is one because our whole ordeal could have been broken. Seph, could have been blocked, scum could kill tandora, her designated recruitee would have been framed. It's also possible that scamp blocked swords.
Praxis the only way I could be roleblocker if tandora and I are both scum, as her n2 action would have been blocked. I don't think there is one because our whole ordeal could have been broken. Seph, could have been blocked, scum could kill tandora, her designated recruitee would have been framed. It's also possible that scamp blocked swords.
praxis, i must have missed something, why lynch X1?
X1 is the hardest player to clear (his role is also very useful to scum, less so to town). We can have the vigs kill people (if they're scum they have to play along), we can have the docs protect people (if they're scum they have to not kill the person they're pretending to target).
The only way to clear X1 is to recruit him into Tandora's mason, and even that will be questioned if Tandora doesn't flip and I'd rather use Tandora's mason recruit to clear a stronger role like you or Swords.
I ran through a few scenarios trying to come up with a plan, and I couldn't find a good use for X1's ability in clearing people, nor a way to clear him, leaving him a giant wildcard.
The only way to clear X1 is to recruit him into Tandora's mason, and even that will be questioned if Tandora doesn't flip and I'd rather use Tandora's mason recruit to clear a stronger role like you or Swords.
I ran through a few scenarios trying to come up with a plan, and I couldn't find a good use for X1's ability in clearing people, nor a way to clear him, leaving him a giant wildcard.
Swords was looking at the thread and still didn't respond
pretty confident he's scum
He should get lynched today so i can pick someone else to shoot
pretty confident he's scum
He should get lynched today so i can pick someone else to shoot
Zen, you actually have a valid point re: not being Roleblocker.
Can you please character claim?
Can you please character claim?
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I'm down with that.
Unvote,
Vote: X1
Unvote,
Vote: X1
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Double Ninja'd
If we chase viewing patterns, he viewed the thread two days ago IIRC and didn't respond (I posted something to that effect when I saw it).
Maybe he read the thread and asked his scumbuddy to help him find a claim?
I would have thought, though, he would have claimed to have killed Frozenflame.
He also claimed to have tracked OS, which is pretty weak since OS claimed his night actions already, right?
I claimed that you mean. And lol i didn't remember os claimed his actions just thought he claimed who he was. I technically could prove my power by tracking tonight OS tonight.
Here's the problem with lynching Swords.
Lynch Swords.
X1 copscans Macman.
Zen protects Macman.
Macman kills Lionel Luthor.
Seph watches Tandora.
Tandora is going to recruit Macman.
Scum kills Zen or Seph.
OS or EE dies the following turn.
Only one confirmed townie goes to 3v2 lylo, unless Swords flipped scum.
So it depends on how strong our read on Swords is; we've got a pretty strong plan if we play by the numbers, but I've seen playing by the numbers fail hard. I've also seen, on the other hand, Swords get lynched for looking scummy countless times and have never actually seen Swords as scum to meta him off of.
Lynch Swords.
X1 copscans Macman.
Zen protects Macman.
Macman kills Lionel Luthor.
Seph watches Tandora.
Tandora is going to recruit Macman.
Scum kills Zen or Seph.
OS or EE dies the following turn.
Only one confirmed townie goes to 3v2 lylo, unless Swords flipped scum.
So it depends on how strong our read on Swords is; we've got a pretty strong plan if we play by the numbers, but I've seen playing by the numbers fail hard. I've also seen, on the other hand, Swords get lynched for looking scummy countless times and have never actually seen Swords as scum to meta him off of.
Xivii
caterpillar feet
I'm doctor kenzou tenma from monster mafia. Didn't really want to say my character because it removes the wifom of me protecting myself. Though I guess I could have lied and said it changed but I rather not have. Actually I don't even know if it's the same as the original. I haven't looked it up.
the problem with these plans is that there has to be atleast one person lying about their roles, and there is a good chance there is more than one person lying. Further problems that lie is the possibility that there is 4 mafia and not just 3 as well as their being another independent role. If this were the case than sticking to the plan would probably net us a loss. (What i'm most worried about is tandora being cultist and the chance that there is 4 mafia.)
X1-12
Smash Champion
I can confirm the abilities of anyone, so Mac or Swords.
What do people think about No Lynching? It allows us to get more clears and less people dead. I'll be honest I haven't run the numbers
What do people think about No Lynching? It allows us to get more clears and less people dead. I'll be honest I haven't run the numbers
Absolutely not @ no lynch. It'll just result in less power roles.
We have to lynch either you or Swords >_<
Random side note, interesting:
We have to lynch either you or Swords >_<
Random side note, interesting:
X1-12
Smash Champion
You don't need the cop alive when he's already given the results on everyone.
Alternate plan with a SwordsRBroken lynch, assuming my death toNight.
Night 4 begins
Lynch Swords
Zen protects Macman
X1 scans Zen
Macman vigs Lionel Luthor
Seph watches Tandora
Tandora recruits Macman
Scum kills Praxis
Tandora is out of recruits?
Day 5 begins
OS and EE are cleared
X1 is lynched
Night 5 begins
Macman survivor is in mason
Seph watches OS
Zen protects EE
Tandora does not recruit if she can, because dying makes scum win
Scum kills Zen, Seph, Tandora, Macman, or X1
OS, EE, and the surviving three of Zen/Seph/Tandora/X1/Macman are in lylo, 3v2 with X1/Macman and Tandora masoned at the end.
(Assuming no one flips scum during this and Tandora's recruit does not kill her)
We can do this with a X1 lynch or Swords.
Night 4 begins
Lynch Swords
Zen protects Macman
X1 scans Zen
Macman vigs Lionel Luthor
Seph watches Tandora
Tandora recruits Macman
Scum kills Praxis
Tandora is out of recruits?
Day 5 begins
OS and EE are cleared
X1 is lynched
Night 5 begins
Macman survivor is in mason
Seph watches OS
Zen protects EE
Tandora does not recruit if she can, because dying makes scum win
Scum kills Zen, Seph, Tandora, Macman, or X1
OS, EE, and the surviving three of Zen/Seph/Tandora/X1/Macman are in lylo, 3v2 with X1/Macman and Tandora masoned at the end.
(Assuming no one flips scum during this and Tandora's recruit does not kill her)
We can do this with a X1 lynch or Swords.
Excuse me?
Despite valid points on Macman's part, I honestly like Praxis's plan. Zen's reply to me was some of the scummiest **** I've ever seen -- EE's so town --> EE is probably scum in two pages, with the only thing that changed in my play being that I supported a plan that would verify him, expose him or get him killed. So scummy it caused me physical pain. Teran also gives me some scum vibes, honestly. He's coasting real hard, but he's not really much of an inactive when he plays, so that's inconsistent to his meta. The post Praxis cited also of course made my eyes pop out more than a bit. Interestingly enough I might have thought of Teran's post as townie due to the sheer circumstances of it all, as he could get in some masterful distancing as scum there, but then he blatantly points it out. Thus it's too WIFOM-y to look at as a townie post, and in fact leans sliiightly scummy for that reason. Won't be anchoring any reads on that, though, I'd rather look back on it when I'm finished my full reread and notes (getting there!)
The good thing about these kinds of plans is that we can force the bad guys to play along, or they expose themself and then they die. No wiggle room.
Swords essentially cc'd both Zen and Mac. I also definitely get a scumvibe from him, some of the **** he's said since he got back was horrendous. I mean, yeah, that's Swords, but come on. Hurrdurp a mafia that can't kill? Really now? He may have been advised to avoid taking credit for FF by a smarter scumbuddy who didn't like the unknowns present. Meanwhile he has no apparent problems with an eerily similar role to his own (trackervig vs docvig), but gets at Zen. I think this is because from Swords's POV, if he decides to get in Mac's face, Macman can just kill him. Naturally there's nothing protown about that line of thought, yet it's the line of thought that best matches the actions he's taking. As for Zen, it could be taking the easy course of action (I got at Zen, lots of people don't like Zen, bam), or it could be scumbuddy distancing.
It's interesting to note that Kenzou Tenma was a Miller Doctor, in Monster Mafia. Why have all these protown power roles and then a miller that doesn't miller anything?
Anyways to continue with the alignment swapping shenanigans, I'm actually Senor Chang from Community Mafia, except this time I'm a VT, not a godfather. Actually, thinking on it, I could be the true miller here. I'm a VT, my character was the godfather in his game, and town has a rolecop? Seems plausible to me. Makes me second-guess that X1 lynch.
The good thing about these kinds of plans is that we can force the bad guys to play along, or they expose themself and then they die. No wiggle room.
Swords essentially cc'd both Zen and Mac. I also definitely get a scumvibe from him, some of the **** he's said since he got back was horrendous. I mean, yeah, that's Swords, but come on. Hurrdurp a mafia that can't kill? Really now? He may have been advised to avoid taking credit for FF by a smarter scumbuddy who didn't like the unknowns present. Meanwhile he has no apparent problems with an eerily similar role to his own (trackervig vs docvig), but gets at Zen. I think this is because from Swords's POV, if he decides to get in Mac's face, Macman can just kill him. Naturally there's nothing protown about that line of thought, yet it's the line of thought that best matches the actions he's taking. As for Zen, it could be taking the easy course of action (I got at Zen, lots of people don't like Zen, bam), or it could be scumbuddy distancing.
Well initially I was holding back to see if anyone claims the same thing I do but... yeah, I am in fact a VT. Apparently the only one, too. I made a thing about wanting to see if anyone claims my role to potentially spook mafia away from some of the easier claims to make (PGO, stuff like that) and generally baffle them a little bit. Since someone almost certainly has to be lying, I guess the gambit has ran its course. I also wanted to shoot for the vague possibility that they might think of an awesome passive protown role from some past game, consider that I might have it and, on picking a nightkill, go for me. Between my general esteem as a player and this possibility -- and the fact that there stood to be almost no safe kills to make, but I'd be one of them -- it seemed like a possibility. But yeah, as I said, any gambiting on my part has more than run its course.
It's interesting to note that Kenzou Tenma was a Miller Doctor, in Monster Mafia. Why have all these protown power roles and then a miller that doesn't miller anything?
Anyways to continue with the alignment swapping shenanigans, I'm actually Senor Chang from Community Mafia, except this time I'm a VT, not a godfather. Actually, thinking on it, I could be the true miller here. I'm a VT, my character was the godfather in his game, and town has a rolecop? Seems plausible to me. Makes me second-guess that X1 lynch.
X1-12
Smash Champion
No lynch may result in death of a PR, but also yield us several results from different PRs.
ooooh, I like the part where we get another copscan in. And I reaaaally like the part where Swords dies.
Miller claim...now things are getting messy >_<
You're not the only VT- Blue Yoshi flipped Plain Citizen, and Mentosman might have been a VT too.
Do you prefer the X1 or Swords variant of my plan?
You're not the only VT- Blue Yoshi flipped Plain Citizen, and Mentosman might have been a VT too.
Do you prefer the X1 or Swords variant of my plan?
Ninja'd. xD
Also, remove the /X1 from the last lines of my plan, forgot to remove that.
Also, remove the /X1 from the last lines of my plan, forgot to remove that.
so can we lynch swords now?
os i tracked yu n2
os i tracked yu n2
The part I dislike about the Swords plan is letting Zen live, but it's the only way to ensure OS and EE make it to endgame. Even if he's scum, he can't kill them without being exposed as having not protected his target or getting busted by Seph.
And if he's town, he's easy mislynch fodder for lylo.
Lynching X1 gets us to a safer lylo if no one flips scum on the way. But Swords looks scummier than X1. =/
And if he's town, he's easy mislynch fodder for lylo.
Lynching X1 gets us to a safer lylo if no one flips scum on the way. But Swords looks scummier than X1. =/
And if scum just kills you?
Then we don't get our lynch AND we lose a PR.
And if scum kills your target?
We gained nothing.
No to no lynching.
X1-12
Smash Champion
And I'm the only PR?
Problem is that you don't find out alignment. By the time you've confirmed a bunch of people's role claims, they've already killed off those people or more important people or you.
It gives scum a ton of control. I'd rather not.
It gives scum a ton of control. I'd rather not.
@kiki: votecount por favor
The advantage to the Swords lynch is that it eliminates any possibility of a roleblocker without a conspiracy.
For example, X1 or EE could be roleblocker, but only if they're scumbuddies (X1 could claim rolecop and be fed results from EE, the real rolecop). Either's flip would bust the other. Same goes for OS (requires X1 to be scumbuddy to lie about his claim).
For the most part, with Swords dead, there is virtually no possibility of a scum roleblocker barring a conspiracy that will bust both scum if one gets lynched, so the plan has a much higher chance of success as planned.
Zen, does your role still list you as a miller doctor?
For example, X1 or EE could be roleblocker, but only if they're scumbuddies (X1 could claim rolecop and be fed results from EE, the real rolecop). Either's flip would bust the other. Same goes for OS (requires X1 to be scumbuddy to lie about his claim).
For the most part, with Swords dead, there is virtually no possibility of a scum roleblocker barring a conspiracy that will bust both scum if one gets lynched, so the plan has a much higher chance of success as planned.
Zen, does your role still list you as a miller doctor?