KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
i think people should be killed with fire :D
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
m2k vs. kdj
- Thread starter Brainjack
- Start date
- Status
soap
Smash Hero
ya but hows mangos sheik? ROFlll
Bil
Smash Ace
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
he already proved it
and trust me when i say he's much better now than he was then... while m2k isn't
Mew2King
King of the Mews
lol it's so easy to search my name and find NeighborhoodP talking about me. If you're basing off those ****ty pound3 matches, then yes I am much better. For some reason you all don't want to believe me when I say I suck vs puff. Hungrybox beat my Marth and Sheik like half the games when I was trying my hardest @ Event52, I could only win the majority with Fox when I had good tech skill. Every other person there was cake compared to him, but he wasn't the 2nd best player there. If "he proved it" that also means KDJ proved it which makes them the best there ever was since they both beat me the last time they played me, but that's ********. I don't play Melee hardly anymore but I still travelled a lot within 08 and won every tourney.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
No, I'm inclined to believe you, but the thing is it doesn't matter. EVERYONE has valid johns they can toss out. (Though character and matchup johns are the worst kind at this phase of the game... come on now.) If Mango can beat every top player but you (which he did at Pound 3), but can always beat you when he goes Puff, what difference does it make? You're still second best, but with convenient johns in hand.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
no you are missing the point, mango beats me the majority with puff but i do better vs every other person, esp those that quit (like Ken, I don't think KDJs fox would lose to mango but there's no way to know now, Azen's Marth ***** him but lost cuz he went fox, other stupid stuff). Making a conclusion just cuz he can beat me doesn't make him a better overall player but you keep posting that he is and I think that's stupid.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
No one cares if you "do better." It doesn't matter if both of you beat them and you win by three stocks every time and Mango wins by one. He's beating them and he'll still beat you going Puff so that makes him the best. You lost your right to complain when you and all of EC lost to him at Pound 3. Get over it.
The rest of your post is just johns.
The rest of your post is just johns.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
i really hate that phrase because it's just an ignorant excuse to ignore reasons. I don't see things like you do. I think Sheik is the best in Melee because she's the best overall. Marth or Fox do the best vs top tiers in general, but I think Sheik is the best overall character. I don't see things like you do in that regard.
I remember Mango saying that M2K has done more than him and should be regarded as the best, but he considers himself up there in terms of skill, which I agree with. Either way, they're both a cut above anybody else in the country right now and so good it's kind of senseless to compare them, imo.
P, why do you take this so personally?
P, why do you take this so personally?
I didn't ever see it that way until Chaddd said that to me in person. Its true.
soap
Smash Hero
drephen always sparks riveting debate
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
What makes you think I do? Because I'm not using emoticons or saying lol?
No, it's actually very legitimate, and very simple, and applicable in all competitive environments. You take responsibility for your actions. There is no justifiable excuse why you lost; they all tie in with you being a worse player in some respect. Got nervous? Too bad, that's your own problem you have to deal with. Don't do well versus a certain matchup? It's a reasonable explanation for why you lost, but no one but your friends give a **** about your reasonable explanation. It's still your own deficiency to overcome, and assessing blame to anyone but yourself in that situation, when it comes down to it, is what keeps you with whatever limitations you already possess.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
you're really stupid
Scar
#HarveyDent
P, and everyone else who is of the opinion that Mango>M2K, you must realize that the ability for a player to consistently beat someone head to head does not directly translate into that player being better than the other.
If you guys have reasons to believe that M2K is not as good as Mango then fine, but winning Pound 3 does not make you the best Melee player of all time.
Then again I guess WC needs someone to rally under.
If you guys have reasons to believe that M2K is not as good as Mango then fine, but winning Pound 3 does not make you the best Melee player of all time.
Then again I guess WC needs someone to rally under.
UltimaScout
Smash Lord
Um... yeah, you are kinda ********.
Character matchup / experience can play a HUGE impact on a match. There are tons of people who I am way better than as a player but can take games from me because of a bad matchup. Doesn't mean they're on my level, it means that's a gay matchup. Sure I can practice it, but that just means it's less of a gap in that 1 matchup. Overall I'd still be the better player.
illboyzeus
Smash Ace
you have to admit though, m2k makes a ****load of excuses...
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
You would too if people were bashing you for every little mistake you made.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
Until Mango loses to East Coast, yeah, the crown is his. It sounds like sour grapes when someone comes on your turf and beats all the top EC players. The whole tournament just proved you wrong. What makes you think PC Chris or Azen is going to beat Mango the next time they play him?
You pretty much misunderstood everything. Marth v Jigglypuff is a gay matchup? Really? Uhh yeah, for the Marth...
Ok then tell Mang0 to leave his stoop on the WC and go to an OoS tourney, or tell someone in SoCal to hold one.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
I think you misunderstood m2k here. He said "I am bad at the jiggly matchup, that's why I lost against mango". He is assessing blame to himself for losing. He's not blaming any outside factors at all. (he might've done some other time tho idk, but point is that's not what he said here)
His only argument with saying that is that he's a better player overall, and that's something that has to do with the definition of "best" (which I won't discuss btw, because I don't think it's all that interesting)
soap
Smash Hero
just wait till ken comes back with his million dollars to reclaim his crown
O_0 ken, it wuld be interesting to see how he adjusts todays metagame
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
At this point, I sincerely doubt it matters to NeighborhoodP if he misunderstands or not. He's already made up his mind and there're no arguments in the world that're going to change it. I mean, honestly, if Scar and Mew2King are telling you things and you're not listening to them, what could change your mind?
apparently if only Mang0 came in and said "M2K is better"
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Y'know, I would not be surprised if he didn't listen even then.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
I'm not trying to change his mind, that's impossible lol.
I just wanted to point that out to everyone reading and participating in this thread. Lots of people bash m2k for johnning about outside factors even when he just talks about his own weaknesses, bad matchups, limitations etc. (maybe he johns about outside factors aswell idk)
I just can't stand that people say that he should man up and admit his own limitations and bla bla even when he's doing just that.
btw, something thats impressive about m2k and his "johns".... he has (historically) always done something about all of the weaknesses he's been "johnning" about (otherwise he wouldn't be the best, lol). For example, he used to always lose to chu-dat because he sucked at the ic's matchup... But then he figured it out and started ****** him.
btw i remember mango saying that he "hasn't done enough to prove that he's the best" and stuff like that aswell. mango and m2k seem to have the same opinion in this debate lol
I just wanted to point that out to everyone reading and participating in this thread. Lots of people bash m2k for johnning about outside factors even when he just talks about his own weaknesses, bad matchups, limitations etc. (maybe he johns about outside factors aswell idk)
I just can't stand that people say that he should man up and admit his own limitations and bla bla even when he's doing just that.
btw, something thats impressive about m2k and his "johns".... he has (historically) always done something about all of the weaknesses he's been "johnning" about (otherwise he wouldn't be the best, lol). For example, he used to always lose to chu-dat because he sucked at the ic's matchup... But then he figured it out and started ****** him.
btw i remember mango saying that he "hasn't done enough to prove that he's the best" and stuff like that aswell. mango and m2k seem to have the same opinion in this debate lol
lolol yeah idunno
no wonder he has 6,000 posts..he just argues with everyone :/
edit: M2K doesnt have limitations...
no wonder he has 6,000 posts..he just argues with everyone :/
edit: M2K doesnt have limitations...
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know Mango better than you...
He definitely thinks he's the best in the world. The issue of whether he thinks he should be considered best in the world by randoms is something separate entirely.
lol @ the appeal to authority
He definitely thinks he's the best in the world. The issue of whether he thinks he should be considered best in the world by randoms is something separate entirely.
lol @ the appeal to authority
No, he's saying he's still better than Mango even if he loses to Mango because he has Jigglypuff johns. Doesn't work that way.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
I'm sure mango is mad good, but your logic is still dumb
TrikELotus
Smash Apprentice
ugh elven, you keep missing the point entirely.
First of all, the thread isn't "Oh so whose is better out of curiosity?", it's "M2K publicly stated that his sheik is better than kdj's in his prime"
He isn't a victim here. Nobody ever said "He can't defend himself"
My post was strictly: Why does he need to? He's the best ranked player. He shouldn't need more validation than that, with statements as previously stated.
My opinion that m2k's isn't as great at kdj's prime is not a fact, it's an opinion. I dont speak for everybody on that.
I've said it many times now, elv, i'll say it one last time and stop replying. M2K isn't on the defense here, he's stating something and seeking more validation. He -can- defend this statement, but I'm saying, he shouldn't have to be putting it out there in the first place.
One last time, m2k is good. I'm done with this, m2k and P can go back to their thing, and the thread'll eventually die.
EDIT: Also, just felt like adding to the more relevant and recent posts. M2K makes a lot of excuses, yes, a lot are just his weaknesses. We should probably move on, because that's about as interesting as that is. Mang0 and M2K are both amazing players. Who is better overall? Well, it's a bit tough to say. Mang0 and m2k can both pound on each other and many other players, but its as some other posters said: Mang0 has to choose to go out of state and/or people have to do some more major tournies that they both attend. See over time their placements and who they beat.
Mang0 beats m2k a majority of the time, m2k said it himself on this thread. But, I agree, you cannot base things off of head-to-head. I'd like to see Mang0 go place in other tournies. (And there be many recorded matches). Assuming things happen, good luck Mang0, good luck Mew2King. That's all for me.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Sure, he's the highest ranked player, but I don't think there's a limit to how much validation a person should have - only Mew2king can decide for himself how much he needs/deserves/whatever else. But I don't think we'll ever agree on that, so I'll just drop the point.
NeighborhoodP, I know you probably won't listen to me and will probably respond with a flame post like you do to everyone, but just because Mew2king loses to Mango doesn't mean Mango is better than Mew2king. Mango lost to Ken and Ken lost to Mew2king. By that logic, Mango is worse than Ken who is worse than Mew2king who is worse than Mango. Explain to me how that works out.
NeighborhoodP, I know you probably won't listen to me and will probably respond with a flame post like you do to everyone, but just because Mew2king loses to Mango doesn't mean Mango is better than Mew2king. Mango lost to Ken and Ken lost to Mew2king. By that logic, Mango is worse than Ken who is worse than Mew2king who is worse than Mango. Explain to me how that works out.
hungrybox
Smash Legend
I haven't played KDJ's sheik.
But m2k told me that his sheik is better than kdj's
But m2k told me that his sheik is better than kdj's
this thread won't die because P doesn't know when his argument has been countered
instead he just uses the same ish over and over
instead he just uses the same ish over and over
Scar
#HarveyDent
This is just flawed logic and I have no interest in feeding trolls, however I think Mango will probably beat PC and Azen if they play again because neither of those players play Melee anymore, and I think that's irrelevant to the argument.
The argument is that PC and Azen and M2K and etc. etc. have all played the game for a long time and have all consistently won major national tournaments. Mango won Pound 3 and deserves mad credit for that, but to say that he is the best is downright stupid. He was simply the better player on that day.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
It's gonna be even worse when EC loses to Mango again...
Y'all n1ggas in denial. I'm sorry.
Y'all n1ggas in denial. I'm sorry.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
soap
Smash Hero
weren't we talking about who is "currently" the best, if we are gonna go into the past, ken dominated for the longest so he is still "the best" even though hes not the best anymore. Now its like mango m2k shiz.. i remember reading that ken interview and ken refers to mango as "local talent"
null55
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2008
- Messages
- 3,500
By definition, johns are excuses. That's it. Excuses can easily be legitimate and they can be completely ridiculous, but when they are legitimate, "no johns" is a ploy to avoid reason. It is a universal statement that's true purpose is to cloud out everything that exists beyond results. M2K, the majority of your posts that I've seen are full of johns, but the majority of the johns (well all of them really, but some are just so lame that I'd like to exclude them) are legit and are said just for analysis and reason (such as the conversation in this thread.) Beyond the johns, Mew2King is right. The truth is, and I hate to say it, there is a time and place for the phrase "no jones" and reasonable conversations are not one of them. In this case "no johns" is a stupid john.
- Status